KSP2 EA Grand Discussion Thread.

[Periple]

1 minute ago, airless2112 said:

Wait a sec.  I'm new.  If this forum mostly just you two guys?   That makea a lot more sense.

No, I’m just having this conversation with you now

(It is pretty quiet lately though. I think there’s a lot more active raging going on at Reddit so if you’re into that sort of thing, you might find it more to your liking.)

[airless2112]

1 minute ago, Periple said:

No, I’m just having this conversation with you now

(It is pretty quiet lately though. I think there’s a lot more active raging going on at Reddit so if you’re into that sort of thing, you might find it more to your liking.)

youre literally proving my point

[Periple]

Just now, airless2112 said:

youre literally proving my point

I’m sorry, what was your point?

[NH4Cl Enthusiast]

9 hours ago, The Aziz said:

Read it again please, your math is off. And then below there's another list of features that are in KSP2 from day 1, but weren't in the first game for a long time, or ever.

And you know well that funds are not planned and heating wasn't in the first game until 1.0 (and the first iteration was so buggy that it needed a bunch of hotfixes).

Yeah heating is a great example of an existing feature that was present in KSP1 and is still totally missing from KSP2. How you think this somehow proves that KSP2 has the same features than 1.0 and more is beyond me, but since your argument boils down to "No, you are!" anyway instead of actually trying to somehow present a logical argument, I'm just going to bow out of this nonsensical debate.

You're welcome to your opinion that KSP2 in it's current state is not only comparable but beyond KSP 1.0 

[Alexoff]

6 hours ago, Periple said:

A full-featured sandbox space game

Full-featured? To do this you need to have a rich imagination

[gluckez]

4 hours ago, Periple said:

(It is pretty quiet lately though. I think there’s a lot more active raging going on at Reddit so if you’re into that sort of thing, you might find it more to your liking.)

I think a lot of people are just lurking here, like myself. I don't often comment because every single conversation on this forum turns into the same old rant by the same people. it's almost as toxic as reddit. I'm just lurking in the hopes of seeing an update, or announcement of an update.

2 minutes ago, Alexoff said:

Full-featured? To do this you need to have a rich imagination

It actually is fully featured, there's just a lot of features that are currently disabled because they're working the bugs out of the base game.

[Alpha_star]

6 minutes ago, gluckez said:

I think a lot of people are just lurking here, like myself. I don't often comment because every single conversation on this forum turns into the same old rant by the same people. it's almost as toxic as reddit. I'm just lurking in the hopes of seeing an update, or announcement of an update.

It actually is fully featured, there's just a lot of features that are currently disabled because they're working the bugs out of the base game.

Yeah and that's why I am not planning to create a Reddit account. It's not even the toxicness that stops me……just the downvoting bots themselves can make Reddit a pretty scary place. If they have the time and money to make bots and hate, why not do some constrictive feedback so they can make the game better themselves?

[Alexoff]

12 minutes ago, gluckez said:

It actually is fully featured, there's just a lot of features that are currently disabled because they're working the bugs out of the base game.

I wonder if there have been more of these disabled features since April, when Nate said that patches would be released less frequently? If you re-read his message carefully, it’s difficult to understand something, of course, but it seems they were going to focus on features.

 

[gluckez]

2 minutes ago, Alexoff said:

I wonder if there have been more of these disabled features since April, when Nate said that patches would be released less frequently? If you re-read his message carefully, it’s difficult to understand something, of course, but it seems they were going to focus on features.

 

There are always some devs working on features, but they just won't be released to the public until the bugs are gone. The patches are coming less frequently, because in the beginning they focussed on the bugs that were easier to fix. The bugs that are still in the game now are the ones that are harder to track down and fix, such as wobble and orbital decay. other bugs may be fixed with a few lines of code, but some require an overhaul of the architecture, or are the result of tiny calculation errors made repeatedly every frame, over thousands of frames or while time warping. 
The features that are on the roadmap, are also in the game, but just disabled. If you go through the code you'll find systems for multiplayer, science, colonies, different kinds of kerbals, orbital assembly buildings, etc...

[Alexoff]

5 minutes ago, gluckez said:

The features that are on the roadmap, are also in the game, but just disabled. If you go through the code you'll find systems for multiplayer, science, colonies, different kinds of kerbals, orbital assembly buildings, etc...

In this case, we can assume that the 1.0 release has already taken place, the roadmap has been completed, and the price of the game can be safely increased!

[gluckez]

1 minute ago, Alexoff said:

In this case, we can assume that the 1.0 release has already taken place, the roadmap has been completed, and the price of the game can be safely increased!

Not exactly. if you look at the roadmap, only the very first box is early access. when 1.0 comes out, it will feature science. There's probably a reason you see 6 development branches on steamdb, if you look at the amount of boxes on that roadmap. and each time they update the base development branch, all others need to be tested too for regression. The science update is the one where it goes out of early access, and is on par with ksp1. I guess they'll increase the price at that time, but that doesn't matter for me, as I already have the game xD

[Stoup]

11 minutes ago, gluckez said:

There are always some devs working on features, but they just won't be released to the public until the bugs are gone. The patches are coming less frequently, because in the beginning they focussed on the bugs that were easier to fix. The bugs that are still in the game now are the ones that are harder to track down and fix, such as wobble and orbital decay. other bugs may be fixed with a few lines of code, but some require an overhaul of the architecture, or are the result of tiny calculation errors made repeatedly every frame, over thousands of frames or while time warping. 
The features that are on the roadmap, are also in the game, but just disabled. If you go through the code you'll find systems for multiplayer, science, colonies, different kinds of kerbals, orbital assembly buildings, etc...

I just don't buy that idea without seeing a source for it any more. Heating was alleged to already be in the game, but just in need of a little polish. Now, many months after the claim that it would be released imminently, it's become quite clear that the system is in fact still in the extremely early stages of its development.

Whether that's because they had to scrap the old system and start anew is irrelevant. Their communication about what is going on in this regard is non-existent.

Furthermore, it kind of invalidates the power of the idea that future roadmap goals are 'already in the game'. Why should we believe that other future features won't go the same way heating has? Just because there may be some bones in the game now doesn't mean those bones aren't gonna just be thrown completely in the garbage, same as whatever progress they allegedly had on the heating system.

[gluckez]

1 minute ago, Stoup said:

Just because there may be some bones in the game now doesn't mean those bones aren't gonna just be thrown completely in the garbage, same as whatever progress they allegedly had on the heating system.

True, but just because it turns out the heating system needs an overhaul, doesn't mean every feature does. Sometimes it just happens that a feature doesn't scale and integrate well with the rest of the game. The roadmap features that are already in the game aren't the full feature that the developers have access to. it's the base components of those features that are finished and could cause regression when added later. 

5 minutes ago, Stoup said:

I just don't buy that idea without seeing a source for it any more.

what's stopping you from going through the code and seeing for yourself then?

[Alexoff]

16 minutes ago, gluckez said:

all others need to be tested too for regression

But users can do all this! This is what early access was created for.

[gluckez]

1 minute ago, Alexoff said:

But users can do all this! This is what early access was created for.

But as you can see on this forum, and on Reddit, that's not what they do. it's not their job, and they would rather complain. Plus, if you introduce a new feature that just blatantly breaks the game, you'll need to be extremely quick to patch it, even though the exact issue isn't known and could require an overhaul of one or more systems. for example: what if they introduce orbital assembly now, and it somehow breaks the VAB? players won't even be able to get into orbit to test the feature and no one will be able to play the game. All they would get is complaints of the community and management might be inclined to shut the project down completely. 
Also, EA is not to test new features, from the steamworks documentation: 

Quote

Steam Early Access enables you to sell your game on Steam while it is still being developed, and provide context to customers that a product should be considered "unfinished." Early Access is a place for games that are in a playable alpha or beta state, are worth the current value of the playable build, and that you plan to continue to develop for release.

 

[Alexoff]

26 minutes ago, gluckez said:

But as you can see on this forum, and on Reddit, that's not what they do. it's not their job, and they would rather complain.

This is a flaw of the community managers and T2 lawyers, they should have written to the EULA that the user who bought the game is obliged to test all new patches and not complain on the Internet

28 minutes ago, gluckez said:

Plus, if you introduce a new feature that just blatantly breaks the game, you'll need to be extremely quick to patch it, even though the exact issue isn't known and could require an overhaul of one or more systems. for example: what if they introduce orbital assembly now, and it somehow breaks the VAB? players won't even be able to get into orbit to test the feature and no one will be able to play the game.

Users must be patient and wait for the patch, and still look forward to a bright future

29 minutes ago, gluckez said:

Also, EA is not to test new features, from the steamworks documentation

Nobody cares what is written in these rules, these are simply non-binding recommendations.

[PDCWolf]

13 hours ago, regex said:

99% of you should have just got a refund, left a negative review, and walked away, but because you "want it to be good" you're here grousing about Intercept being incompetent day and night and trying to, what, turn public opinion against them? Put pressure on them to crunch? Say sorry? None of that makes the game better. Only concerted, dedicated development, a process that takes time, will do that.

People don't need to come here to "turn" public opinion against intercept. People come here with those ideas because that's the current public opinion of intercept. The forum and the discord are the dissident ones, saying that KSP2 has more features than 1, or looks better, or has a better development cycle, or more responsible people behind it, or having to compare it to the work of 3 mexicans for it to be worth something.

5 hours ago, gluckez said:

True, but just because it turns out the heating system needs an overhaul, doesn't mean every feature does. Sometimes it just happens that a feature doesn't scale and integrate well with the rest of the game. The roadmap features that are already in the game aren't the full feature that the developers have access to. it's the base components of those features that are finished and could cause regression when added later. 

what's stopping you from going through the code and seeing for yourself then?

The fun part about this argument is you're clearly banking on people to not do that, because not only is it against the EULA (which you seem to have broken, apparently) but you'd quickly realize upon taking a look that most not yet implemented features are barely a step above the default template you'd get on starting a new project on an IDE.

To make it clear, this argument boils down to "I've illegally seen the good stuff but please don't take a look, just believe me".

Truly, a fully featured experience.

 

Edited October 14, 2023 by Vanamonde

[gluckez]

34 minutes ago, PDCWolf said:

"I've illegally seen the good stuff but please don't take a look, just believe me".

my exact quote was: what's stopping you from going through the code and seeing for yourself then? so it's not like I'm asking people to just believe me. so no, I'm not "banking on people to not do that". 

34 minutes ago, PDCWolf said:

but you'd quickly realize upon taking a look that most not yet implemented features are barely a step above the default template you'd get on starting a new project on an IDE.

 

I'm not sure if you've actually ever started a new project in an IDE, but that's not what that looks like. And how would you even know what it looks like? since it's against the EULA and you haven't broken it?
What I also want to point out is that a EULA is not legally binding, it is an agreement, and if you break that agreement, the company is not obligated to provide a service to you. Another thing is that the EULA
also states that in order to enter the agreement, you must be an adult of the legal age of majority in your country of residence. I doubt that everyone who bought the game is..

51 minutes ago, PDCWolf said:

I've illegally seen the good stuff

So as stated above, no, I have not "illegally" seen anything. and even if it was illegal in the US the decompile something, I'm not a US citizen, and where I am from it's absolutely legal. 

[Alexoff]

Maybe since all this is in the game, then one of the modders will turn it back on? At least let's see how it works, albeit with bugs. Maybe they'll fix it at the same time. Once upon a time there was a mod for early versions of KSP1 that introduced a bunch of fixes to the game.

[PDCWolf]

1 hour ago, Alexoff said:

Maybe since all this is in the game, then one of the modders will turn it back on? At least let's see how it works, albeit with bugs. Maybe they'll fix it at the same time. Once upon a time there was a mod for early versions of KSP1 that introduced a bunch of fixes to the game.

As a matter of fact, what is in there is so basic and completely useless that modders have to do stuff themselves:

 

2 hours ago, gluckez said:

my exact quote was: what's stopping you from going through the code and seeing for yourself then?

The law in my case, the EULA, and the forum rules.

[Alexoff]

7 minutes ago, PDCWolf said:

As a matter of fact, what is in there is so basic and completely useless that modders have to do stuff themselves:

But where are the colonies, other planets, science and thermal effects? Why don't modders want to help developers find bugs and hype?

[Vanamonde]

Some comments removed. Please do not tell others what they think. 

[moeggz]

Im not really too active on the forums right now. 

12 hours ago, airless2112 said:

I get it now.  Thanks moeggz.  I post on SA sometimes.

it's just these guys, huh?

But I missed something here, what’s SA?

 

[Periple]

Just now, moeggz said:

what’s SA

SomethingAwful.

[TLTay]

So I guess this is the thread that all the "not overtly positive and supportive" threads get dumped into?

Looks like there's more activity here than the rest of the KSP2 forum.

This "only positivity allowed" direction the world is taking is bizarre and dystopian.