KSP2 EA Grand Discussion Thread.

[cocoscacao]

6 hours ago, Wheehaw Kerman said:

The glass that is half full meets the “GLASS THAT’S EMPTY AND THE WATER TASTES AWFUL

To be fair, some naysayers do raise some valid points. I just think that we don't (and never will) have enough information why/what took so long to be developed. But things are moving now, either in good or bad direction. Instead of guesstimating, I just choose to cheer on. 

[Scarecrow71]

The questions I would have for an AMA with an engineer (but definitely interested in what others would ask):

1. Do you have plans to flesh out/add a full trip planner into the game?  If so, will that planner include any/some/all of the following features:  alarm clock, transfer window calculator, gravity assist calculator?
2. In a similar vein, are there plans to add any mods from KSP1 into stock KSP2?  If so, can you give a few examples?
3. Can you identify why the decision was made to rewrite the code base from scratch instead of adding on to/fixing the code base from KSP1?
4. Although we are nowhere near 1.0 yet, can you give us an idea of what modding support might look like?  What tools will be available, and what documentation will be provided to assist with modding?

Edited July 20, 2023 by Scarecrow71

[Alexoff]

15 hours ago, Spicat said:

let people that find value into those appreciate and ask about them, (and there are a lot)

Since you're asking, I'll allow the AMA. You can even invite the entire engineering department at once, I don’t mind

[Halfp]

When will careers and science be available in the game? Do at least one item on the roadmap already, because it's basic.

[Keko]

Is the shape of the engine plumes in a vacuum just an artistic choice? Since IRL plumes expand convex while in KSP 2 they expand concave.

[Stephensan]

19 minutes ago, Scarecrow71 said:

So...when are we getting heat and re-entry effects?

in or during the science update

 

kinda not so happy about it but it just strongly improves my view of needing science mode to come soon after some more bugs are fixed

 

Edit: it only makes sense, with them saying they will take their time and they want the heating to work well with it, it only makes sense they will come in the same "major update" 0.2.000~

Edited July 21, 2023 by Stephensan
im running on thinking from yesterday of sleep

[Alexoff]

If at least every third developer of KSP2 was like Nertea, we would have long ago jointly colonized other star systems. But he seems to be the only one...

[Alexoff]

If Nertea now does all the thermodynamics, and before that he did almost all the parts in the game, then what are the rest of team doing? Maybe in a year we will find out that he single-handedly made half the game?

 

17 minutes ago, regex said:

I love how there's a timeline in the post about how things are going to develop alongside other features and the first thing someone asks is "when?". Even I, only skimming the post on my phone (due to miniscule font), can see when these features will come out.

"Together with science" is not the answer to the question "when".

[regex]

1 hour ago, Alexoff said:

"Together with science" is not the answer to the question "when".

If you haven't figured out by now that they don't give dates until things are ready you're either new, willfully ignorant, [snip]. "Alongside these other things" is the answer you should expect for "When?".

Edited July 21, 2023 by Vanamonde

[Periple]

1 hour ago, regex said:

If you haven't figured out by now that they don't give dates until things are ready you're either new, willfully ignorant, [snip]. "Alongside these other things" is the answer you should expect for "When?".

More to the point, he isn't in a position to give out dates. Producers own the production schedule and publishing decides when to publish anything from it. Some other developer blurting out dates will just give all of them a headache, and nobody likes a surly producer!  

[Alexoff]

1 hour ago, regex said:

If you haven't figured out by now that they don't give dates until things are ready you're either new, willfully ignorant, [snip]. "Alongside these other things" is the answer you should expect for "When?".

Well, in the sense that there is no answer in the text, you just need to understand the current situation with the difficulties of developing a game?

[moeggz]

As steam wouldn’t refund me for the game and I’d rather be wrong about KSP2 never reaching 1.0 than have wasted $50, this is an interesting update. Nertea does good stuff, thanks for the update.
 

Also this seems to make it clear that the “short while after launch” without reentry heating was a known and purposeful lie.

The system is still in the conceptual phase of development. We’re five months in and months away from heating effects. Y’all knew it wasn’t coming soon and lied.
 

Can we get an apology (I would prefer an explanation but know that’s not happening) for the lies surrounding launch? And maybe from Darrin an apology for snarkily saying I was “very incorrect across the board” for saying science was at least 1/2 a year from release? Unless y’all are planning on finishing heating and science and the remaining game breaking bugs in the four weeks you have left?

 

edit spelling (changed the word “one” to “on”)

 

edit 2: for clarity’s sake a direct image of the communication from the developers is now included so that I do not in any way misrepresent the statement.

 

 

Edited July 21, 2023 by moeggz
Clarity

[GGG-GoodGuyGreg]

43 minutes ago, moeggz said:

As steam wouldn’t refund me for the game and I’d rather be wrong about KSP2 never reaching 1.0 than have wasted $50, this is an interesting update. Nertea does good stuff, thanks for the update.
 

Also this seems to make it clear that the “short while after launch” without reentry heating was a known and purposeful lie.

The system is still in the conceptual phase of development. We’re five months in and months away from heating effects. Y’all knew it wasn’t coming soon and lied.
 

Can we get an apology (I would prefer an explanation but know that’s not happening) for the lies surrounding launch? And maybe from Darrin an apology for snarkily saying I was “very incorrect across the board” for saying science was at least 1/2 a year from release? Unless y’all are planning on finishing heating and science and the remaining game breaking bugs in the four weeks you have left?

 

edit spelling (changed the word “one” to “on”)

We're in the same boat.

While an interesting dev insight, this also leads me to believe it's still in concept phase, which would have been fine if this dev insight would have been released 1-2 years ago, but today it just angers me to think I paid almost full price and only now I see core mechanics are being in concept phase !?

I'm pretty sure it wasn't even the slightest hint in interviews, announcements and communication pre-launch at the fact that KSP2 EA will launch without re-entry heating, and that it will be included with the science update which itself will follow towards autumn '23 if we're lucky. I don't know who thought a core mechanic like re-entry heating could possibly come bundled as a milestone update.

It only leads me to this example of why this is a bad practice:

Why was is it so hard to be upfront about this before launch, "hey, these following features that KSP1 has [insert bullet points], will not be there at launch and they will follow in more than half a year, maybe towards the end of the year, as a rough estimation."

I can only say that this is "winging it" or ill intent.

Rather than make a quick buck and get more than 50% negative reviews, it would have been more beneficial for your reputation, if you care about it, to have less people buy it initially (which would have no surprise between asking price and what they get) and then more people slowly buy once you EARN their trust by clear communication and clear development goals with deadlines that are being met.

There, I said it. Deadlines. Being able to talk about concrete deadlines separates people that know what they are doing from the others.

Edited July 21, 2023 by GGG-GoodGuyGreg

[The Aziz]

31 minutes ago, GGG-GoodGuyGreg said:

 

1st is building a single product, the second is building sequels, each more complicated than the previous one. Two different things.

[Vanamonde]

14 hours ago, Halfp said:

When will careers and science be available in the game? Do at least one item on the roadmap already, because it's basic.

Welcome to our forum. Your question has been moved to a more appropriate thread. 

[Stewcooker]

Thanks for the very informative write up.

Why wasn't this done sometime after 2019 and before launch?

[Wyleg]

Just now, Stewcooker said:

Thanks for the very informative write up.

Why wasn't this done sometime after 2019 and before launch?

Probably because some reasons.

[Alexoff]

34 minutes ago, PDCWolf said:

When. Yes, it becomes more important and more glaring of an issue with each passing day. Re-entry heating was promised as a release feature in the media event, then as a coming soon 143 days ago.

Apparently Nertea finished introducing his parts into the game and was finally able to focus on thermal effects. What dozens of other developers have been doing for 6 years is the mystery of the century.

[Strawberry]

1 hour ago, moeggz said:

The system is still in the conceptual phase of development. We’re five months in and months away from heating effects. Y’all knew it wasn’t coming soon and lied.

What tells you this? Just because we're seeing this for the first time does not mean this is the first time stuff like this was created or discussed. For example, from code that was available at release, we've seen references to ground and fluids acting as heat fluids/sink. While its possible certain aspects of heating are partially in the conceptual phase (ie stuff like how do we deal with timewarp), they've put down coding work since before release. 

1 hour ago, moeggz said:

And maybe from Darrin an apology for snarkily saying I was “very incorrect across the board” for saying science was at least 1/2 a year from release? Unless y’all are planning on finishing heating and science and the remaining game breaking bugs in the four weeks you have left?

Why four weeks, 3/4ths of a year is a far gap from 6/4ths of a year. 

1 hour ago, GGG-GoodGuyGreg said:

I'm pretty sure it wasn't even the slightest hint in interviews, announcements and communication pre-launch at the fact that KSP2 EA will launch without re-entry heating, and that it will be included with the science update which itself will follow towards autumn '23 if we're lucky. 

https://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/topic/212081-kerbal-space-program-2-pre-release-notes/#comment-4233618

I believe basically every youtuber from the ESA event mentioned it as well pre launch as well.

Edited July 21, 2023 by Strawberry

[moeggz]

@Strawberry

First, 

This post is discussing the concept of thermal systems. I was expecting “here’s how thermals work (which we got) and here’s the bugs/optimization problems keep us from releasing it right now”

We didn’t get the second part. It’s still being developed. They’re not patching it they’re making it. So maybe conception phase is already past, we don’t know because they still haven’t fully released how it will work, but if it is it’s still in the implementation phase. Not much better to me this far past launch. (Again Nertea you do good work this criticism is to the publishing side and statements made at launch, not your work)
 

And second,

4 weeks because in 4 weeks the game will have been released for 6 months. So unless science and thermals come in 4 weeks (unlikely from this post) the statement that science was at least 6 months way was correct and not incorrect as was claimed. 
 

Also, thanks for asking and discussing in a respectful way. I hope I clarified well.

[Strawberry]

10 minutes ago, moeggz said:

We didn’t get the second part. It’s still being developed. They’re not patching it they’re making it. So maybe conception phase is already past, we don’t know because they still haven’t fully released how it will work, but if it is it’s still in the implementation phase. Not much better to me this far past launch. (Again Nertea you do good work this criticism is to the publishing side and statements made at launch, not your work)

There's definitely still development ongoing (otherwise we'd have it in our hands already), the question is on what. This is speculation with not a lot to go off of, but its safe to say the reentry side of things is more done then the radiator side of them, I assume the reentry side of things is in the debugging/optimization side of things, its playable but could be better, and the radiator side of things is more rudimentary. There's definitely a lot we dont know though, so yeah some clarification here would be nice, usually these dev diaries tend to come with responses later on and I hope we get some here. 

10 minutes ago, moeggz said:

4 weeks because in 4 weeks the game will have been released for 6 months. So unless science and thermals come in 4 weeks (unlikely from this post) the statement that science was at least 6 months way was correct and not incorrect as was claimed. 

Ah I misread 1/2 years as 1 or 2 years instead of .5 years (honestly its possible darrin did the same here as well). 

Edited July 21, 2023 by Strawberry

[KerbolExplorer]

This is nice and all but some gameplay footage wouldn't be bad

I wonder how long is the "short release window without heating/thermal effects".

[Spicat]

1 hour ago, moeggz said:

Can we get an apology (I would prefer an explanation but know that’s not happening) for the lies surrounding launch? And maybe from Darrin an apology for snarkily saying I was “very incorrect across the board” for saying science was at least 1/2 a year from release? Unless y’all are planning on finishing heating and science and the remaining game breaking bugs in the four weeks you have left?

30 minutes ago, moeggz said:

4 weeks because in 4 weeks the game will have been released for 6 months. So unless science and thermals come in 4 weeks (unlikely from this post) the statement that science was at least 6 months way was correct and not incorrect as was claimed. 

Stop spreading this lie, you said a lot of other things in your message, Darrin was saying you were wrong because you said that  the "First major update in duplicating features of KSP 1." which is false and "Years probably before actually new features" (meaning at least 2 years before science and/or colony) which is also probably false.

He owes you nothing, even less an apology.

Edited July 21, 2023 by Spicat

[moeggz]

Here is the exact wording back and forth.

 

As heating and science are, in fact, features of KSP1 no I’m not lying. 
 

And if he did read it as 1 or 2 years he still misread and didn’t correct himself then or now. 
 

So show me where I lied. Disagree about how much it should bother me that’s fine but I’m not lying. 

Edited July 21, 2023 by moeggz

[Alexoff]

22 minutes ago, Strawberry said:

There's definitely still development ongoing (otherwise we'd have it in our hands already), the question is on what. This is speculation with not a lot to go off of, but its safe to say the reentry side of things is more done then the radiator side of them, I assume the reentry side of things is in the debugging/optimization side of things, its playable but could be better, and the radiator side of things is more rudimentary. There's definitely a lot we dont know though, so yeah some clarification here would be nice, usually these dev diaries tend to come with responses later on and I hope we get some here. 

It's just that they didn't show us anything, except for concepts and photos of real things. It was possible to show a colorful descent of craft into the atmosphere of Eve. But in the tradition of IG, fans have to figure out for themselves what is really going on with the development of the game. Someone thinks that almost everything has already been done, someone thinks that Nertea presented us with a concept that is still going to be implemented. Weird marketing, for some reason I don't understand, doesn't back up good expectations.