For all the KSP2 haters

[blanoun]

I'm really annoyed at all the people saying 'ksp2 is trash', 'oh this update might've saved it', 'the games broken'.  What do you think KSP1 was like right after it was released.  It doesn't matter what type of game it is, the developers need time to develop the game, and a game of KSP2's scope is not something you can do overnight, so stop criticizing everything.

Can I get an "Amen" please.

[magnemoe]

True, but KSP 2 is not compared to KSP 1 at launch but KSP 1 at it current state.
This is true for all games, an RPG will be compared to Baldur gate 3 not old games. 

On the other hand I'm quite happy with for science.  One of my favorite thing in addition to graphic and sound is the new burns. An 17 minute burn of 1.6 km/s who end up inside Duna's SOI is impressive, more so that you can time warp doing that burn. 

[Apogee-23]

I understand the criticisms, but starting all these outlandish rumors just be angry at KSP 2 was too far.

[steveman0]

I think KSP2 as a game is shaping up nicely compared to KSP1. The tutorials, tech progression, and missions are great. Colonies, resources, and interstellar all are very promising to leapfrog the foundation that KSP1 laid. And of course multiplayer for those who are looking to that.

I still find it odd how they released the game in the state that it was in and how even now there are many gameplay breaking bugs that will turn off all but the most dedicated player from playing even in a sandbox context. It's kind of baffling that it remains this way as I can't imagine how frustrating all the bugs are from a development perspective and how much these would interfere with new development. Trying to troubleshooting new bugs and work on gameplay balance is surely less efficient when there are many existing bugs that can regularly impact gameplay as to interfere with basic testing.

Despite being an Early Access title, there is still an expectation that the game is playable given the publisher/studio size and price tag. The number of game breaking bugs certainly puts this status in question for a non-negligible fraction of players. It doesn't help that they maintain a relatively low turn-around on patches compared to other EA titles that many would come to expect especially from a game with the magnitude of some of the issues. There is an intrinsic expectation that large issues get resolved quickly before returning to content development. It really didn't help that they hyped up the game prior to EA announcement as being something that would be released as a 1.0 product giving the impression they were much further along than they were. The marketing team simply did a terrible job managing expectations.

[Biggen]

I don't know what "rumors" we are talking about, but you'd have to be blind to think KSP2 isn't somewhat broken in its current form.  Without mods, (the maneuver node mod specifically) interplanetary travel is beyond difficult.  Like almost impossible.

Edited February 9 by Biggen

[MechBFP]

As the saying goes "don't feed the trolls". All you are doing is giving them attention with a thread like this, which is what they want in the first place.

[kdaviper]

1 hour ago, Biggen said:

I don't know what "rumors" we are talking about, but you'd have to be blind to think KSP2 isn't somewhat broken in its current form.  Without mods, (the maneuver node mod specifically) interplanetary travel is beyond difficult.  Like almost impossible.

I must be some kind of super human then because I've done plenty interplanetary missions without it.  Not saying a manual editor wouldn't be helpful though.

[Biggen]

13 minutes ago, kdaviper said:

I must be some kind of super human then because I've done plenty interplanetary missions without it.  Not saying a manual editor wouldn't be helpful though.

Then you are a much better player than I.  There is no way I could fine tune interplanetary encounters with the stock maneuver node "tool".  I hesitate to call it a "tool" because it isn't very helpful.  It's more of a hindrance.

[kdaviper]

5 minutes ago, Biggen said:

Then you are a much better player than I.  There is no way I could fine tune interplanetary encounters with the stock maneuver node "tool".  I hesitate to call it a "tool" because it isn't very helpful.  It's more of a hindrance.

You don't have to do it all in one go. Do your big adjustments early on, then the finer adjustments later on your journey

[LoSBoL]

25 minutes ago, kdaviper said:

I must be some kind of super human then because I've done plenty interplanetary missions without it.  Not saying a manual editor wouldn't be helpful though.

Honestly, I haven't played in weeks because KSP2 does not grant you the possibility to create maneuvers beyond it's current orbit.  I know I can use mods to achieve it, just don't want to, because this needs to be fixed in an orbital mechanics game. It really is my biggest gripe and I need it to be gone.

[Meecrob]

9 hours ago, blanoun said:

I'm really annoyed at all the people saying 'ksp2 is trash', 'oh this update might've saved it', 'the games broken'.  What do you think KSP1 was like right after it was released.  It doesn't matter what type of game it is, the developers need time to develop the game, and a game of KSP2's scope is not something you can do overnight, so stop criticizing everything.

Can I get an "Amen" please.

Lol, okay we got a fanboy in training here, we just gotta wait for them to go through a few releases and see the bugs that irk them don't get fixed.

Welcome to the group, @blanoun!

[LunaticsLunacy]

27 minutes ago, Meecrob said:

Lol, okay we got a fanboy in training here, we just gotta wait for them to go through a few releases and see the bugs that irk them don't get fixed.

Welcome to the group, @blanoun!

Let's be real here, not excessively hating on KSP2 doesn't equate to someone being a fanboy of this game, yeah I get that the game didn't meet expectations when it was released for early access, but complaining about the current state of the game isn't going to instantly change the state of the game. 

[magnemoe]

1 hour ago, LoSBoL said:

Honestly, I haven't played in weeks because KSP2 does not grant you the possibility to create maneuvers beyond it's current orbit.  I know I can use mods to achieve it, just don't want to, because this needs to be fixed in an orbital mechanics game. It really is my biggest gripe and I need it to be gone.

Now this is hyper annoying, I went to Ike and got into an 15 km orbit who is to low for decent time warp so I put my lander at 30 km and wanted my mothership to reach it. 
That and showing orbital parameters while adjusting the burn is so much needed like Pe on the Mun or distance and relative velocity to an craft or body you want to reach. 

Now, I'm having fun but know that I will drop KSP 2 once I'm done with science, perhaps I want to grab all the science after done with the tree. Now I'm also burned out of KSP 1.
Do I have bugs yes, Ike lander claiming Ike blocked view of sun then sun is overhead is an minor one but has not had major ones who tended to end my KSP 1 games. 

[Superluminaut]

16 hours ago, blanoun said:

I'm really annoyed at all the people saying 'ksp2 is trash', 'oh this update might've saved it', 'the games broken'.  What do you think KSP1 was like right after it was released.  It doesn't matter what type of game it is, the developers need time to develop the game, and a game of KSP2's scope is not something you can do overnight, so stop criticizing everything.

Can I get an "Amen" please.

KSP1 was made on a whim by a dude bored at work, from scratch.

KSP2 is being made by a professional studio and team, recycling most of KSP1.

There is a massive difference in reasonable expectation.

[Bej Kerman]

12 hours ago, Superluminaut said:

KSP1 was made on a whim by a dude bored at work, from scratch.

You neglected to mention that's not been true since Squad as a whole picked it up, then that got backed by a large company. This would be like saying "Starfield is an indie title" just because a small dev team at Bethesda was responsible for a prototype of the game years ago.

12 hours ago, Superluminaut said:

KSP2 is being made by a professional studio and team, recycling most of KSP1.

That latter part is a massive [citation needed].

Edited February 10 by Bej Kerman

[Biggen]

13 minutes ago, Bej Kerman said:

 

That latter part is a massive [citation needed].

Not the person you replied to but I also feel this way. I mean, it’s the exact same planets, same parts, same dV map, same KSC layout, etc… They basically took some graphical mods and put them into an official package and called it KSP2.

Edited February 10 by Biggen

[Bej Kerman]

47 minutes ago, Biggen said:

Not the person you replied to but I also feel this way. I mean, it’s the exact same planets, same parts, same dV map, same KSC layout, etc…

I wrote a bullet list on why all four of these points are incorrect, but it became clear to me when you accused it of having the "same KSC layout" you're just doing this for the sake of it. A completely different KSC is literally one of the first things new players will notice, and if someone claims it's the same, I have no reason to believe they've actually even played KSP 2. It's an objective fact that a top-down view of KSP 2's KSC model will not match up with a top-down view of KSP 1's KSC model.

Edited February 10 by Bej Kerman

[Scarecrow71]

12 minutes ago, Bej Kerman said:

I wrote a bullet list on why all four of these points are incorrect, but it became clear to me when you accused it of having the "same KSC layout" you're just doing this for the sake of it. A completely different KSC is literally one of the first things new players will notice, and if someone claims it's the same, I have no reason to believe they've actually even played KSP 2. It's an objective fact that a top-down view of KSP 2's KSC model will not match up with a top-down view of KSP 1's KSC model.

Gotta agree with this.  Even though some of the same buildings exist (VAB, for example), none of them even remotely look the same, outside or in.  Mission Control and R&D have both been completely revamped, and the SPH has been removed.  Not sure how anyone can say the KSC in both games is the same.

[Biggen]

27 minutes ago, Bej Kerman said:

I wrote a bullet list on why all four of these points are incorrect, but it became clear to me when you accused it of having the "same KSC layout" you're just doing this for the sake of it. A completely different KSC is literally one of the first things new players will notice, and if someone claims it's the same, I have no reason to believe they've actually even played KSP 2. It's an objective fact that a top-down view of KSP 2's KSC model will not match up with a top-down view of KSP 1's KSC model.

I didn't say it was a brick for brick copy of KSC from KSP1 to 2. But the general gist of gameplay is the same except they dumbed it down by removing funds.

There is no innovation at all from Ksp 1 to 2. Track missions, do science,  unlock parts. All the same thing between both games.

[Bej Kerman]

10 minutes ago, Biggen said:

I didn't say it was a brick for brick copy of KSC from KSP1 to 2.

10 minutes ago, Biggen said:

But the general gist of gameplay is the same except they dumbed it down by removing funds.

Unsure what this has to do with the layout of the KSC.

11 minutes ago, Biggen said:

There is no innovation at all from Ksp 1 to 2. Track missions, do science,  unlock parts. All the same thing between both games.

No innovation at all, in terms of career mode at least.

[Meecrob]

On 2/9/2024 at 12:20 PM, LunaticsLunacy said:

Let's be real here, not excessively hating on KSP2 doesn't equate to someone being a fanboy of this game, yeah I get that the game didn't meet expectations when it was released for early access, but complaining about the current state of the game isn't going to instantly change the state of the game. 

The person is obviously a fanboy. Look at them defend the game so hardcore. The issue is they still have the "new car smell" of KSP2 fresh for them...once that wears off, then they will realize "hey, this game is awesome, but there are these relatively minor things that need fixing that they keep not fixing..." We are not "bashing" the game or the devs by pointing out they need to fix some obvious stuff.

19 hours ago, Scarecrow71 said:

Gotta agree with this.  Even though some of the same buildings exist (VAB, for example), none of them even remotely look the same, outside or in.  Mission Control and R&D have both been completely revamped, and the SPH has been removed.  Not sure how anyone can say the KSC in both games is the same.

Good point! They definitely needed a professional team backed by a big studio to change KSC so much! I mean, for sure there are no real life examples to draw inspiration from.

Edited February 11 by Meecrob

[Scarecrow71]

4 hours ago, Meecrob said:

Good point! They definitely needed a professional team backed by a big studio to change KSC so much! I mean, for sure there are no real life examples to draw inspiration from.

You missed the entire point of what I wrote.  The point was brought up that the KSC from KSP1 was identical to the KSC from KSP2, and Bej stated that was wholly incorrect.  I simply backed up that point by showing why they were different.  I said absolutely nothing about hiring a whole team of developers to lay out the new KSC.  I made no arguments about a major studio, dollars being spent, or real-world examples.

If you are going to quote me and then respond, do so within the context of the actual post.  Please.

[Meecrob]

11 minutes ago, Scarecrow71 said:

You missed the entire point of what I wrote.  The point was brought up that the KSC from KSP1 was identical to the KSC from KSP2, and Bej stated that was wholly incorrect.  I simply backed up that point by showing why they were different.  I said absolutely nothing about hiring a whole team of developers to lay out the new KSC.  I made no arguments about a major studio, dollars being spent, or real-world examples.

If you are going to quote me and then respond, do so within the context of the actual post.  Please.

My apologies. I thought you were being sarcastic and was going along with it. The fact that KSC from KSP1 is different than KSP2 is not really an argument. I mean would you think it was cool to charge $50 USD for a literal copy of KSP1 KSC?

The rest of what I said was to highlight how little of an achievement it is to simply make KSP2 KSC =/= KSP1 KSC.

I agree with what was said upthread, KSP2 is so-far a straight up graphics, music and mission upgrade. As in, if KSP1 did not exist, the current devs would be floundering because they didn't come up with the concept to begin with.

[CosmikDebris]

I've had a couple of less than ideal experiences purchasing games on release in the last year or so. KSP2 & Cities Skylines 2 both released with a lot of issues and I've certainly had my fingers burned. That being said, KSP2 is making some awesome progress at the moment. I've got 300ish hours on record, the vast majority of that has been great fun, some it the best gaming experiences I've had in a long time. I consider this in the £/hour ratio to be completely acceptable, especially considering how much further I'm going to be going with it. (It would cost me a lot more per hour to go and see a movie) At this point the devs owe me literally nothing and I'm excited for the future. To be completely clear though: the marketing and development departments really should have got their ducks in a row before this release and performed a little expectation management. I dislike the assumptions people made that the devs are lazy, or dishonest, or inept and there aren't many professions where your work is put through a grinder and pulled apart in such a public way. I, for one, would not like the same scrutiny being applied to me and my daily work life, not because I don't work hard but because it's possible that people outside of the system would not be able to grasp the intricate internal workings by looking in through the window. A sloppy release makes this kind of reception a likely outcome and, unfortunately, it could have been handled better. Just my 0.1 dollar...

[NexusHelium]

On 2/9/2024 at 8:15 AM, steveman0 said:

still find it odd how they released the game in the state that it was in and how even now there are many gameplay breaking bugs that will turn off all but the most dedicated player from playing even in a sandbox context

I don’t think that was IG’s choice… Publishers like Private Division have a bad habit of rushing games before they’re completely finished. Take Fallout NV for example. Good game and decently optimized for the literal 18 months it was given, but it had really bad glitches and annoying bugs. KSP 2 might have been given a lot more time (about 3 years) but I would say that making a space simulator that breaks all of the rules of static gameplay is arguably harder. Private Division most likely pushed release on them.

Edited February 19 by NexusHelium
I said squad. Squad's chill.