What happened to increased communication?

[MARL_Mk1]

On 4/19/2024 at 10:55 PM, steveman0 said:

It's this kind of exageration that makes it understandable why they wouldn't want to engage with the community right now. You hurt your credibility by making claims like this. 0.2+ has been quite playable. Not bug free, but easily playable for 100+ hours as a solid game with the addition of the science and mission objectives.

"It's this kind of exageration that makes it understandable why they wouldn't want to engage with the community right now."

First and foremost, it will never be understandable and acceptable for a team creating an Early Access game to not want to engage with the community with the reason being "they are being mean to our game waah". If you really want to convince yourself of otherwise, you are more than welcome, but you'll remain in the wrong.

Second, it is a fact the game is, indeed, a preview build (Early Access to what's yet to become a fully fledged videogame) that is borderline unplayable if you compare it with any other game that resembles it's experience and gameplay loop (in this case the only fair comparison would be KSP1).

Current build of the game lacks most features of KSP1's vanilla gameplay loop, and those already present exist on a half-assed and unstable state.

Existing gameplay loop (and this encompasses every aspect of the game you as the player interact with on a normal session: UI, controls, save/load, construction, flying) is unstable and utterly unreliable. Examples of these could be crafts spontaneously exploding upon loading onto the launchpad, or saving a long mission and realizing that loading that state results in your craft disintegrating itself for no reason or having its parts misaligned. Inability to reliably fly long missions due to parts drifting away from their original location on your craft. Rovers and wheeled vehicles are just... no. Delta V readings and maneuver node dV predictions literally don't work properly, which is the spine of this game if you want to do anything beyond LKO. Performance is atrocious on high end machines, so forget about high part counts (high meaning 200 parts and up, which is "normal" part count for any reasonable KSP1 project).

I could continue adding game breaking issues that support my claim. Just don't tell me that they could have the right to go radio silent for not liking them and that you'd think it'd be okay.

"You hurt your credibility by making claims like this"

I think I speak for everyone who paid $50 for KSP2's Early Access when I say that the only credibility that holds any real value when it comes to this game is Intercept Game's.

No one here has any reason to exagerate or tell you lies about how the game works when all it takes is playing it by yourself and realizing the rose tinted glasses don't hold themselves longer than the first 10 minutes of playtime until you encounter a game breaking glitch. Which again, it's fine. They exist. It's normal.

What isn't normal is people trying to defend something as if their life depended upon it.

---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- 

Imagine being one of the biggest Kerbal content creators, having been invited to most events and campaigns about KSP2 and realizing that a simple KSP2 video about landing a craft on the Mun and driving around with the simplest rover ever results in you considering going back to KSP1 and not looking back.

Please, watch that YouTube video at the bottom just by skipping through (it's 40 mins after all) while listening to his complains and tell me with a serious face that KSP2 is totally playable as a solid game for 100+ hours again and that all he is doing is exagerating and hurting his credibility. 

I'm waiting.
 

 

Edited April 22 by MARL_Mk1

[Icegrx]

6 hours ago, The Aziz said:

this is the case of "why change something that works"

 

Wow, explosions looked so much better back then 

[Nerdy_Mike]

It will be no later than Friday. I don't have an official time just yet. 

[The Aziz]

50 minutes ago, MARL_Mk1 said:

I think I speak for everyone who paid $50 for KSP2's Early Access

No.

[Flush Foot]

1 hour ago, Nerdy_Mike said:

It will be no later than Friday. I don't have an official time just yet. 

If in video form, will it be prefaced by footage of a certain dev "highlighting" what day it is?

[Pthigrivi]

[PDCWolf]

5 hours ago, MARL_Mk1 said:

-snip-

Great writeup, good to see more people being realistic about the absolute disaster this project is on all fronts. Yes, they've got a game that somewhat works now and has something to do in it provided you're not mind-numbed after the 3rd time clicking that flashing blue light trying to harvest some dopamine.

5 hours ago, MARL_Mk1 said:

I think I speak for everyone who paid $50 for KSP2's Early Access when I say that the only credibility that holds any real value when it comes to this game is Intercept Game's.

Sadly, you really don't speak for everyone. Some people are happy this mess is what it is and will seclude themselves in positive-chambers to repeat to each other that if they can wait more, and enforce positivity, it'll all be fine.

 

[MARL_Mk1]

21 minutes ago, PDCWolf said:

Great writeup, good to see more people being realistic about the absolute disaster this project is on all fronts. Yes, they've got a game that somewhat works now and has something to do in it provided you're not mind-numbed after the 3rd time clicking that flashing blue light trying to harvest some dopamine.

Sadly, you really don't speak for everyone. Some people are happy this mess is what it is and will seclude themselves in positive-chambers to repeat to each other that if they can wait more, and enforce positivity, it'll all be fine.

 

Don't get me wrong, even though my previous message sounds like I've given up on this game, that couldn't be farther from the truth. I strongly believe in them, and I can't wait for the day I can open KSP2 and not close it until 8 hours later.  I'll be there sending bug reports first minute Colonies update is out, because it's what I signed up for.

I desperately want to look at this game and think "now, this is a truly worthy successor to KSP1".

Just saying, for those who may think I'm just trying to spread the doomer virus for no reason.

Edited April 23 by MARL_Mk1

[Meecrob]

15 hours ago, MARL_Mk1 said:

Re: Matt Lowne

Finally a big youtuber is speaking out. I've been saying the same thing for months, but I have like 5 subs.

It is ridiculously short-sighted to not fix issues that impede video making. Right now, Matt Lowne and the rest of the KSP youtubers are doing free marketing for Take Two.  I put up with the bugs because I can pause making my videos at any time, but if you have an upload schedule, KSP2 is silly to attempt to make videos with.

Oh and with regards to communication, we aren't getting any because we are still engaging. It feels like the powers that be think this forum is like a youtube comment section. TT isn't afraid some of us are upset. They show us to their shareholders and say "You can't hate something you don't love". Take Two is excrements scared of people not caring at all.

If we really want communication, we need to organize a boycott of Reddit and Dischord. Lol, a man can dream!

 

[NexusHelium]

49 minutes ago, Meecrob said:

If we really want communication, we need to organize a boycott of Reddit and Dischord. Lol, a man can dream!

Uh.... not sure about that. Chances are that if the community stop engaging with the game, they would cancel the project. One of the only reasons they haven't is that we are so passionate about this game (and the fact that they've likely sunk a lot of money into the project)

[Meecrob]

1 hour ago, NexusHelium said:

Uh.... not sure about that. Chances are that if the community stop engaging with the game, they would cancel the project. One of the only reasons they haven't is that we are so passionate about this game (and the fact that they've likely sunk a lot of money into the project)

They won't cancel the project over us not engaging. I know why you are thinking that, and thats because you are applying principles of supply and demand. Publicly traded companies like Take Two and their shareholders are so full of themselves they think they can make their own rules. Shareholders will ask "why is the engagement plummeting on the IP you said would start making money this year? Create engagement or we will sell your stock! I am supposed to make x amount of money this quarter!"

Also, we need to face facts here; no use skirting the point anymore. The KSP2 we were promised HAS been cancelled. It was cancelled a long time ago. Right now, we are all awaiting a game called KSP2, but it is actually the KSP equivalent of that horrid "Microsoft Flight" that attempted to make Microsoft Flightsim easier to play. Just like KSP, once players figured out it was watered-down, they went back to playing FSX.

 

[NexusHelium]

1 hour ago, Meecrob said:

The KSP2 we were promised HAS been cancelled. It was cancelled a long time ago. Right now, we are all awaiting a game called KSP2, but it is actually the KSP equivalent of that horrid "Microsoft Flight" that attempted to make Microsoft Flightsim easier to play. Just like KSP, once players figured out it was watered-down, they went back to playing FSX.

I guess we'll see about that, won't we? 

[NexusHelium]

May the person with the more accurate outlook on the game win 

[PDCWolf]

9 hours ago, NexusHelium said:

Uh.... not sure about that. Chances are that if the community stop engaging with the game, they would cancel the project. One of the only reasons they haven't is that we are so passionate about this game (and the fact that they've likely sunk a lot of money into the project)

They aren't cancelling because KSP is really the golden egg goose, that's why they're taking literally 0 risks and only selling us a coat of paint and the top 3 most popular mods of KSP1.

[NexusHelium]

1 hour ago, PDCWolf said:

that's why they're taking literally 0 risks and only selling us a coat of paint and the top 3 most popular mods of KSP1.

I would argue that releasing the game in the state that it was it was a pretty big risk. But I would say something like KSP 2 doesn’t really need or even deserve risk. It’s a sequel to the OG. What risks exactly do you take?

Edited April 24 by NexusHelium

[PDCWolf]

20 minutes ago, NexusHelium said:

I would argue that releasing the game in the state that it was it was a pretty big risk. But I would say something like KSP 2 doesn’t really need or even deserve risk. It’s a sequel to the OG. What risks exactly do you take?

Better engine, deeper simulations and features, life support, bigger planets, maybe different planets, better robotics with capacity to program routines or outright just write code for the game like kOS, a proper race to space type career, budgeting, literally anything that isn't just the first game with "better" graphics + 3 mods and thinking that's somehow ever gonna be worth $50.

[NexusHelium]

2 minutes ago, PDCWolf said:

Better engine, deeper simulations and features, life support, bigger planets, maybe different planets, better robotics with capacity to program routines or outright just write code for the game like kOS, a proper race to space type career, budgeting, literally anything that isn't just the first game with "better" graphics + 3 mods and thinking that's somehow ever gonna be worth $50.

I completely agree with the suggested additions and I really hope they add them in the future. Most of these probably will be added throughout the roadmap though (I can definitely see things like life support being added as a separate difficulty mode). And I don’t personally have a problem with the game’s price. I’m just holding out until all of these are added and I’d they’re not, then chances are the game is going be still one of the greatest of all time.

[DoomsdayDuck555]

1 minute ago, NexusHelium said:

I completely agree with the suggested additions and I really hope they add them in the future. Most of these probably will be added throughout the roadmap though (I can definitely see things like life support being added as a separate difficulty mode). And I don’t personally have a problem with the game’s price. I’m just holding out until all of these are added and I’d they’re not, then chances are the game is going be still one of the greatest of all time.

I recently watched Nate’s interview and it really seemed like the devs are trying to bang out the roadmap stuff quickly, then they will go back and add QoL and requested features. For example, Nate mentioned commnet systems, science archive, and alarm clock all as things that the team wants to add but are prioritizing below roadmap. 

[MechBFP]

1 minute ago, DoomsdayDuck555 said:

I recently watched Nate’s interview and it really seemed like the devs are trying to bang out the roadmap stuff quickly, then they will go back and add QoL and requested features. For example, Nate mentioned commnet systems, science archive, and alarm clock all as things that the team wants to add but are prioritizing below roadmap. 

That is fair, although they still have consider that pushing out all the roadmap content is not a great idea if the players ultimately don't want to engage with it because the game becomes too irritating/frustrating to bother with. They absolutely still need to address some of the main pain points in stride with the roadmap.

[Pthigrivi]

11 hours ago, Meecrob said:

They won't cancel the project over us not engaging. I know why you are thinking that, and thats because you are applying principles of supply and demand. Publicly traded companies like Take Two and their shareholders are so full of themselves they think they can make their own rules. Shareholders will ask "why is the engagement plummeting on the IP you said would start making money this year? Create engagement or we will sell your stock! I am supposed to make x amount of money this quarter!"

Also, we need to face facts here; no use skirting the point anymore. The KSP2 we were promised HAS been cancelled. It was cancelled a long time ago. Right now, we are all awaiting a game called KSP2, but it is actually the KSP equivalent of that horrid "Microsoft Flight" that attempted to make Microsoft Flightsim easier to play. Just like KSP, once players figured out it was watered-down, they went back to playing FSX.

 

This is over the top. The same roadmap is still there—colonies, interstellar, resources, multiplayer.  At each stage we can gauge the deliverables. Folks don’t get fresh info for a couple months and we’re all back to chicken little acrimony. How about a little chill. 

1 hour ago, PDCWolf said:

Better engine, deeper simulations and features, life support, bigger planets, maybe different planets, better robotics with capacity to program routines or outright just write code for the game like kOS, a proper race to space type career, budgeting, literally anything that isn't just the first game with "better" graphics + 3 mods and thinking that's somehow ever gonna be worth $50.

I don’t disagree with life support, I think there’s real bang for buck there. Robotics would be great too but aren’t as integral to a functioning resource system which is the real spine of a live-off-the-land fleshed out colony system. More planets and interstellar are coming, code and money are probably out and for mods.

Just to point out the obvious: I care quite a bit about KSP,  it was my favorite game for many years, I check this forum daily, and still there is no player for whom KSP is a bigger part of their lives than the people who are currently working on this game. If the worst thing imaginable happened and KSP got cancelled you will all move on with your lives  with no disruption. Thats not the case for the people at intercept.  Take a moment as a fellow human being to acknowledge that these folks are all pouring their careers into a very cool thing that is for you a pleasant distraction. Definitely give feedback. Definitely give negative feedback. But be real and treat these folks like they’re humans doing their best with the resources they have just like you are with whatever it is you do.  Speak your mind, but be patient and be chill. No one likes to be harassed at work  and nothing about a video game is worth harassment.

 

Edited April 24 by Pthigrivi

[Icegrx]

1 hour ago, PDCWolf said:

Better engine, deeper simulations and features, life support

Life support, and the need to ship food and supplies to your space station would be oh so so sweet. I really enjoy pretending that I’m running a real life space program and that would go a long way. 

I normally run fake supply runs just for the role play of it. 

[Scarecrow71]

53 minutes ago, Pthigrivi said:

Folks don’t get fresh info for a couple months and we’re all back to chicken little acrimony. How about a little chill. 

The issue is that we aren't getting what we were promised.  First it was KERB every 2 weeks.  Then every month.  Then once during a month.  It has already been 6 weeks since the last one.

On top of that, we were told that the hope was patches every 6-8 weeks...but we are at 3 months and counting since the last one.  It is an endless cycle of being promised something, hoping it is true this time, then finding out it is more corp-speak.  I think we have a legtitimate beef on this.

53 minutes ago, Pthigrivi said:

Robotics would be great too but aren’t as integral to a functioning resource system which is the real spine of a live-off-the-land fleshed out colony system

No, but they are pretty integral to actual ships and their designs.  Robotics and the ability to use pistons, hinges, and other folding parts opens up all kinds of design considerations.

53 minutes ago, Pthigrivi said:

doing their best with the resources they have

While I agree with the overall sentiment, I have to admit it is hard to be understanding when the goalposts continue to be moved.  And we aren't privy to the resources they have.  Being backed by a major game publisher, we have to assume they have ample resources to do their jobs, which they currently really haven't proven they are doing.  We have bugs persistent since launch, yet they think grid fins are the way to go.  People complain about something as simple as the font, yet instead of fixing that they are telling us all how much they enjoy playing the game and they can't wait to show us.  They aren't listening, and without knowing what they are in fact doing we have no choice but to assume they aren't doing anything meaningful.

Edited April 24 by Scarecrow71

[The Aziz]

6 hours ago, PDCWolf said:

that's why they're taking literally 0 risks and only selling us a coat of paint and the top 3 most popular mods of KSP1.

Oh the irony

5 hours ago, PDCWolf said:

deeper simulations and features, life support, bigger planets, maybe different planets, better robotics with capacity to program routines or outright just write code for the game like kOS,

So you want the game with 6 popular mods instead.

[Flush Foot]

8 hours ago, Icegrx said:

Life support, and the need to ship food and supplies to your space station would be oh so so sweet. I really enjoy pretending that I’m running a real life space program and that would go a long way. 

I normally run fake supply runs just for the role play of it. 

In a sense, this is already available to you in-game…

Make electricity via KSP 2’s fuel-cells and regardless of demand, they’ll chew through your Methalox reserves:

So if you have only batteries, tanks, and fuel-cells, your craft have finite “lives” without resupply.

NOT that this is the way I want the fuel cells to function, just that given they are working this way now…

[PDCWolf]

8 hours ago, The Aziz said:

Oh the irony

So you want the game with 6 popular mods instead.

And the proper codebase to support them rather than self-destroying after a couple thousand parts like KSP2 does and will do for the foreseeable future. After all, isn't "bad foundation" one of the complaints for KSP1? Then why'd KSP2 get a pass being made in the same engine and including a timebomb as big as their current unloaded vessel simulation and save serialization are?

Oh right, because "wahh KSP1 was bad" is not an argument, it's a cope, and a double standard when KSP2 is part of the conversation.