Take Two Interactive (Rockstar, 2K, Private Division) canceling games, ending projects and laying off 5% of its workforce

[herbal space program]

10 hours ago, AVaughan said:

 This time I rage-quit after re-flying the same mission 3 times, because on all three attempts my parachute failed to properly deploy.  (That is the sort of bug that I would have hoped would have been quickly fixed in patch of hot-fix released within a couple of weeks.  Since it is the sort of mission ending bug that can cause players to rage quit, you would think it would have been a priority to push a fix out.  But 3 months later, it still exists.  I have no idea if we will even get another patch, let alone whether it will address that bug). 

All I can say is that I flew a few dozen missions in FS, many of which required multiple landing attempts with up to 78 parachutes, and not once did I have a parachute fail to deploy because it was bugged.   I  landed with parachutes on Kerbin, Duna, Jool, Eve, and Laythe, and in all cases they behaved as expected. So maybe your problem is platform-specific, or maybe it was actually you who was doing something incorrectly. Either way, I don't think three successive bugged parachute deployments is something any of the fairly large number of people who  like me played through all or most of the FS mission tree experienced, so your representation that this is the general state of the game at this point is plain wrong.

[Lisias]

30 minutes ago, herbal space program said:

<...>So maybe your problem is platform-specific, or maybe it was actually you who was doing something incorrectly. <...>

If it's something he's doing incorrectly, the game is failing to provide him with some hints about the problem.

Silent failing is the root of all evil. If the parachute can't be opened by some reason, some way to indicate the problem must be provided to the user, otherwise we have a design flaw.

Of course, I'm assuming that, indeed, there's no indication of the problem - I never played KSP2, so I can't tell.

Edited May 16 by Lisias
Entertaining grammars made slightely less entertaining...

[cocoscacao]

10 minutes ago, herbal space program said:

I  landed with parachutes on Kerbin, Duna, Jool, Eve, and Laythe, and in all cases they behaved as expected.

Nate's own response:

Quote

• Parachutes don’t deploy reliably (doubly true when fairings are in the mix) 

Many things can influence a bug to occur or not. Never dismiss these reports to be just a user error.

[Scarecrow71]

18 minutes ago, herbal space program said:

and not once did I have a parachute fail to deploy because it was bugged

Remember that your experience is not necessarily going to be the same as everyone else.  I have yet to fly a mission in FS! that didn't have bugged parachutes.

18 minutes ago, herbal space program said:

So maybe your problem is platform-specific

Perhaps, and this is a good call-out.  Myself, I'm on Windows 11 with 32 GB of RAM, a Ryzen 9 12 core 3900, and a GeForce RTX 2060 Super (not that the video card could cause bugs, per se, but you never know).  For yourself, what rig are you running that you aren't seeing the chute issue?

18 minutes ago, herbal space program said:

Either way, I don't think three successive bugged parachute deployments is something any of the fairly large number of people who  like me played through all or most of the FS mission tree experienced, so your representation that this is the general state of the game at this point is plain wrong.

Au contraire, mon frer.  There is actually a bug report out there for this very issue.  I'd tell you to go look it up, but I'll save you the trouble:

Originally posted 12/11/2023, with 58 upvotes.  And a large number of responses to the thread are AFTER FS! dropped.  This was talked about in multiple KERBs as well.  I'd say the community not only is aware of the issue, but that a larger portion of the community than you care to admit is having the problem.  Again, your mileage may vary, so don't assume that just because you don't see it that it isn't happening.  By that logic, the KSC following people into space never happened because I never saw it.

Edited May 16 by Scarecrow71

[herbal space program]

2 minutes ago, cocoscacao said:

Never dismiss these reports to be just a user error.

I didn't dismiss it as such, I merely did not dismiss the possibility that it was in fact user error, because I flew a whole lot of missions without any such problems. Two different things. And again, a lot of the people here with the harshest criticisms of the game seem not to have played it very much.

[cocoscacao]

7 minutes ago, Scarecrow71 said:

For yourself, what rig are you running that you aren't seeing the chute issue?

Have you used fairings? I never experienced this issue, but I haven't really used fairings much in this game. Apparently, that's not the main trigger, but it can contribute to it. For you, it's consistent always? Fairings with or without?

[Fizzlebop Smith]

I encounter the chute very very frequently.. or did.

I have only got about 100 ish hours into KSP2 and stopped playing after the mission chains. (Because I'm a Mission Player  )

I ALWAYS quick save before hitting atmo. This has never persisted for three attempts though. 

Two things I can usually count on happening..

Any craft I make over 200 parts explodes on the launchpad when loading.

The parachutes are going to fail the first time

I do feel that some bug accounts are written in a somewhat hyperbolic manner, I try not to discount them out of hand. Perhaps just some healthy skeptism.

 

(Not saying *anyone* dismissed anything. It seemed effort and language was specifically used so as to not be the case)

 

Edited May 16 by Fizzlebop Smith

[Scarecrow71]

3 minutes ago, cocoscacao said:

Have you used fairings? I never experienced this issue, but I haven't really used fairings much in this game. Apparently, that's not the main trigger, but it can contribute to it. For you, it's consistent always? Fairings with or without?

Both with and without fairings.

[kdaviper]

9 minutes ago, herbal space program said:

I didn't dismiss it as such, I merely did not dismiss the possibility that it was in fact user error, because I flew a whole lot of missions without any such problems. Two different things. And again, a lot of the people here with the harshest criticisms of the game seem not to have played it very much.

I have experienced 3 issues with parachutes: one was fixed by changing deploy settings

The second was fixed by ending time warp ( I did not realize time warp did not reset to 1x after entering atmosphere as it did in ksp 1) 

The third was maybe related to a symmetry bug of some sort as half of the chutes from a certain set refused to open when the other half worked fine. 

 

While I agree that it did not make the game unpayable for me, I can see how it can cause frustration and there is the potential for a game-breaking experience if the first two work-arounds consistently fail.

[Flush Foot]

14 minutes ago, kdaviper said:

The second was fixed by ending time warp ( I did not realize time warp did not reset to 1x after entering atmosphere as it did in ksp 1)

I was wondering if people were adherents to the Matt Lowne School of Impatient Players ('excessive' time-warping), but even in KSP 1, if you were in atmosphere, the time-warp was 'physical-warp' so you still had full-control over your craft... I have no idea why it is in KSP 2's atmo-warp that you cannot even do staging...

[MechBFP]

Just now, Flush Foot said:

I was wondering if people were adherents to the Matt Lowne School of Impatient Players ('excessive' time-warping), but even in KSP 1, if you were in atmosphere, the time-warp was 'physical-warp' so you still had full-control over your craft... I have no idea why it is in KSP 2's atmo-warp that you cannot even do staging...

I would not be surprised if people who can’t use parachutes are just time warping every single time and somehow haven’t managed to notice it. 

[Flush Foot]

Just now, MechBFP said:

I would not be surprised if people who can’t use parachutes are just time warping every single time and somehow haven’t managed to notice it. 

I've not encountered parachute-bugs in my sessions either, but I also can't swear to never once having a "payload with parachutes within a fairing"...

But I do also agree with this point:

48 minutes ago, Lisias said:

If it's something he's doing incorrectly, the game is failing to provide him with some hints about the problem.

Silent failing is the root of all evil. If the parachute can't be opened by some reason, some way to indicate the problem must be provided to the user, otherwise we have a design flaw.

And again, why does KSP 2 atmospheric warp-mode not allow for staging / chute-deployment?

[MechBFP]

6 minutes ago, Flush Foot said:

I've not encountered parachute-bugs in my sessions either, but I also can't swear to never once having a "payload with parachutes within a fairing"...

But I do also agree with this point:

And again, why does KSP 2 atmospheric warp-mode not allow for staging / chute-deployment?

Indeed it is a UI/UX problem if that is the root cause for people. They were already going to fix that before everything happened. 

[herbal space program]

35 minutes ago, Scarecrow71 said:

Myself, I'm on Windows 11 with 32 GB of RAM, a Ryzen 9 12 core 3900, and a GeForce RTX 2060 Super (not that the video card could cause bugs, per se, but you never know).  For yourself, what rig are you running that you aren't seeing the chute issue?

Windows 11, Intel Corei7-11,  8 physical cores, 64gb RAM, RTX 3060 card with 12GB RAM.  Obviously this is in fact a problem for a significant number of people, but I swear I am not lying that my parachutes have pretty much always deployed properly. I have had issues with laggy staging on complex vessels with a whole bunch of chutes, which has caused me to hit space twice and thus prematurely execute the next staging step. but the chutes outright not deploying when safe is something I have not encountered.

[Mutex]

11 minutes ago, MechBFP said:

I would not be surprised if people who can’t use parachutes are just time warping every single time and somehow haven’t managed to notice it. 

That's caught me out sometimes, but there have definitely been times when I couldn't deploy the parachute and I definitely wasn't time-warping.

[herbal space program]

12 minutes ago, MechBFP said:

I would not be surprised if people who can’t use parachutes are just time warping every single time and somehow haven’t managed to notice it. 

Deploying chutes under physical timewarp was often a recipe for death in KSP1, so I always avoid doing that. I also have been using fairings very little, so maybe that is part of it for me.

[Flush Foot]

4 minutes ago, herbal space program said:

Deploying chutes under physical timewarp was often a recipe for death in KSP1, so I always avoid doing that

I absolutely agree that doing so is... ill-advised... but at least you could do it and see the failure occur, unlike in KSP 2 where trying the same thing just results in nothing... nothing... nothing... kerbsplat!

[Scarecrow71]

11 minutes ago, herbal space program said:

Deploying chutes under physical timewarp was often a recipe for death in KSP1, so I always avoid doing that. I also have been using fairings very little, so maybe that is part of it for me.

I never attempt to deploy chutes while time-warping.  I always slow down time warp to 1x, and then attempt to deploy

[herbal space program]

1 hour ago, Fizzlebop Smith said:

I have only got about 100 ish hours into KSP2 and stopped playing after the mission chains. (Because I'm a Mission Player  )

You did all those missions in only 100 hours? Wow! It must have taken me at least twice that amount of time.

[Fizzlebop Smith]

Oops. I have 190.. is what I meant to put.  (Think exact is 184 w/ Feb 8th last played)

There are a small handful of missions I did not complete.. but not many. I don't recall but think there are 4.

One of the reasons I found KSP2 a bit deficient. As soon as tech becomes available I tend to launch a bunch of over engineered beasts into every direction possible. Sometimes in packs to cannibalize fuel.

Because of this approach I  missions being completed in spurts. 

It puts a much heavier toll on total performance that KSP1 seemed to. I was most excited for future refinement of whatever bottleneck was causing this.

 

 

Edited May 16 by Fizzlebop Smith

[herbal space program]

8 minutes ago, Fizzlebop Smith said:

Oops. I have 190.. is what I meant to put.  (Think exact is 184 w/ Feb 8th last played)

Now that I can believe, and you were no slouch getting it all  done in that amount of time either! Some of those missions were pretty tough.

[cocoscacao]

2 hours ago, Flush Foot said:

And again, why does KSP 2 atmospheric warp-mode not allow for staging / chute-deployment?

Original didn't do it either. Probably it can't compute aero forces under TW. Yes, there are issues with non terminating TW when reaching atmo, and blah blah blah

[Flush Foot]

Just now, cocoscacao said:

Original didn't do it either. Probably it can't compute aero forces under TW. Yes, there are issues with non terminating TW when reaching atmo, and blah blah blah

Are you sure? If you're warping in-atmosphere in KSP 1, it's a physical-warp, not purely time-warp (as it defaults to in vacuum)... I could see it leading to chute-failure if warping in-atmosphere in KSP 1, but I wouldn't expect the staging event / chute-deployment action to outright 'fail' (ie "not even try")

[cocoscacao]

1 minute ago, Flush Foot said:

Are you sure?

Yes. You could do physical warp, but not time warp... and chutes worked fine.

[Flush Foot]

2 hours ago, Flush Foot said:

at least you could do it and see the failure occur, unlike in KSP 2 where trying the same thing just results in nothing... nothing... nothing... kerbsplat!

My original comment was about KSP 1 allowing you to try (even if it yielded 'mixed results') while KSP 2's warp made even the attempt fail to trigger:

3 hours ago, Flush Foot said:

why does KSP 2 atmospheric warp-mode not allow for staging / chute-deployment?

To which you said:

9 minutes ago, cocoscacao said:

Original didn't do it either

But when asked for clarification:

4 minutes ago, cocoscacao said:

Yes. You could do physical warp, but not time warp... and chutes worked fine.

Me: