The game failed because...

[dprostock]

Kids, the game didn't fail. The expectations of its designers were simply met. Or didn't ALL of you pay for KSP2? 

[Stevie_D]

27 minutes ago, dprostock said:

the game didn't fail. The expectations of its designers were simply met. Or didn't ALL of you pay for KSP2? 

I don't think Take 2 met their expectations, then. I was a raging KSP fan who would've paid anything to play an improved version of KSP.

Knowing Take 2 are Take 2, however, I watched videos on the game, lets plays, reviews of EA, followed its progress on these forums, and vowed to give them all of my money if they proved they were on the right track. They never received a penny from me....


...maybe being responsible meant I wasn't their target market, after all... hmmm... 

Edited May 3 by Stevie_D

[dprostock]

1 minute ago, Stevie_D said:

I don't think Take 2 met their expectations, then. I was a raging KSP fan who would've paid anything to play an improved version of KSP.

Knowing Take 2 are Take 2, however, I watched videos on the game, lets plays, reviews of EA, followed its progress on these forums, and vowed to give them all of my money if they proved they were on the right track. They never received a penny from me....


...maybe being responsible meant I wasn't their target market, after all... hmmm... 

*ponders*

Three years ago I said they were ripping off followers. I wasn't wrong. What escaped me was the number of people who bought something that didn't exist and wasn't going to exist. I'm sorry for those who put in money, effort and believed in this, but NEVER HAD A CLEAR IDEA OF HOW TO ACHIEVE MULTIPLAYER, which was the "hook" for all of you to put money in. And without it there was no game, only empty promises...  

[Kryzzk]

In my experience, unless the project is a money grab, developers decide what to finish, what to abandon and where to put/remove resources based on overall consumer interest, and KSP 2 just didn't really seem to be getting any real attention.  In my opinion, this is because of that high price tag.

I own KSP 1, purchased it when it first came out in Early access, Think I gave like $5 for it, purchased it again later for my kids gave like $15 for each copy.  purchased the DLC's I think $15 each on those.   Given what KSP 1 is, I would have paid the $40 to get the final product and still purchased the DLCs later. 

But to me, with the shape it was in and apparent lack of communication from the developers, the $50 price tag on KSP 2 smelled like a money grab so I stayed away, and I'm willing to bet that many people did the same thing.  Had it been $15-$25 I would have considered purchasing it, had it been $5-$10 I would have purchased it without a thought. 

To be honest, If they dropped the price to $10-$15 I would still consider purchasing it in the state it's in, in the hope that they would transfer the game to another studio rather than abandoning it, but I don't see them lowering the price, and I'm not paying over $25 for any game still in development because that reeks of trying to get as much money as they can as fast as they can, I usually see this kind of price with Early access games that the devs know aren't going to be finished.  Not always the case as there are other factors to consider in addition to price, but usually the way it works with this high of a price this early.

[Infinite Aerospace]

10 minutes ago, dprostock said:

Three years ago I said they were ripping off followers. I wasn't wrong. What escaped me was the number of people who bought something that didn't exist and wasn't going to exist. I'm sorry for those who put in money, effort and believed in this, but NEVER HAD A CLEAR IDEA OF HOW TO ACHIEVE MULTIPLAYER, which was the "hook" for all of you to put money in. And without it there was no game, only empty promises...  

To be fair, even if every person on this forum bought a copy of Kerbal Space Program II, it still likely wouldn't have been enough to break even and therein lies the fundamental flaw with someone like Take Two Interactive taking on a game like Kerbal Space Program. It's far too niche to ever be considered a money making venture, for a tiny group like Squad, sure but a 70 person studio, not so much. I suspect the console market was their real predicted revenue stream.

[Flush Foot]

37 minutes ago, dprostock said:

MULTIPLAYER, which was the "hook" for all of you to put money in

Also false... I couldn't give two* flying effs about Multiplayer.

"Mission Complete / Feature Complete" for me would have been Colonies with Resources, with Interstellar a 'nice to have'.

Edited May 3 by Flush Foot
typo* [Darn it... caffeine, engage!]

[Infinite Aerospace]

1 minute ago, Flush Foot said:

Also false... I couldn't give to flying effs about Multiplayer.

"Mission Complete / Feature Complete" for me would have been Colonies with Resources, with Interstellar a 'nice to have'.

Yeah I couldn't have gave a toss about multiplayer, I'm not interested in, and I don't play multiplayer games. The core game was what the focus for me was, I suspect I'm not the only one who has that opinion either.

[dprostock]

1 minute ago, Flush Foot said:

Also false... I couldn't give to flying effs about Multiplayer.

"Mission Complete / Feature Complete" for me would have been Colonies with Resources, with Interstellar a 'nice to have'.

Don't worry, a patch will be released with some updates on that topic in DLC format at $25.- unfinished, untested and full of bugs.  KSP2 may be dead, but let's remember that they still make movies about the pedants....

[Stevie_D]

Same here as @Flush Foot It's flawed thinking to say the game failed simply because they promised multiplayer. I didn't care about multiplayer and would've never used multiplayer.  Yes, people bought into something that wasn't complete and was on a promise of things being completed, which I personally find naive (reason I never bought KSP2,) but plenty of companies in game development ...and business in general... put out goals to achieve at the beginning of conception that they have no idea how they are logistically going to implement. That it is why it is called a "goal" and not a "certainty."

The fact modders had made a rudimentary version of multiplayer work was probably what made them believe it was a feasible goal, which is entirely reasonable.

 

Edited May 3 by Stevie_D

[Flush Foot]

@Stevie_D given the 'AAA-level' backing the game seemed to have, I was less concerned about 'will we get it all' of it all, especially with the EA trailer's "[these features] will be added to the game during Early Access".

[kfsone]

13 hours ago, Skorj said:

Yeah, it was clear to me from my 90 minutes before refunding that the team didn't know any sort of modern best practices.  With UI examples, you can at least make a slight excuse that UI test automation is hard (especially early on when the UI is constantly being changed).  But the bugs in the maneuver node?  The simple fact that maneuver node bugs made it into the internal daily build, let alone any sort of release candidate, said it all. 

Maybe if they're using their own UI system that would be true, but if they're using one of the popular unity-favored UIs (and it looks a lot like imgui to me, but I'm biased) then testing the sort of low-level brokeness isn't hard so long as it's not an afterthought, which isn't unusual in a post-indie team; sooooo many post mortems that go "well, testing... turns out you need it from the start". As I said, this isn't so much about the buttons themselves: it demonstrates that QA doesn't get the information it needs to perform quality control and testing, or a controlling interest over what gets into the code base. I've never related to some of my peers' disdain for needing QA approval for changes to make it into main/master/trunk.

[NexusHelium]

[ Snip]

Being right is not always a good thing. If I know nothing else about this game, it's that in this situation it most definitely is not good to be right about it failing.

And not to mention that you are accomplishing nothing with this. There is no moment to enjoy. There is no person to convince. And there is certainly no reason to try and make people feel crappy (even if the attempts are failing)

The situation is bad. There is nothing to boast.

Edited May 4 by James Kerman
Redacted by a moderator

[dprostock]

 

8 minutes ago, NexusHelium said:

I do hope you know that even if you are right...

Being right is not always a good thing. If I know nothing else about this game, it's that in this situation it most definitely is not good to be right about it failing.

And not to mention that you are accomplishing nothing with this. There is no moment to enjoy. There is no person to convince. And there is certainly no reason to try and make people feel crappy.

The situation is bad. There is nothing to boast.

I'm sorry for you, but I already knew it in 2021 and now I'm making a big splash after enduring ridicule and censure.

And I sincerely dedicate it to all the "believers" who blindly followed the word of the Leader and jumped into the void. 

I have no doubt that if a DLC comes out, they will go buy it and keep the monster alive, because the "believer" is like that.

Isn't that the case with WWII movies? KSP2 dead can offer a lot still.  They will continue to polish the corpse.

[Oak7603]

I bought KSP2 just because it was KSP2 and it looked like it would be good. I knew nothing about the developers, or the company. I don't follow that sort of stuff. If a game looks good and I have the money I'll give it a go.

I didn't understand how multiplayer would have worked, but I wasn't planning on playing it multiplayer so that didn't matter to me either.

 

[dprostock]

1 minute ago, Oak7603 said:

I bought KSP2 just because it was KSP2 and it looked like it would be good. I knew nothing about the developers, or the company. I don't follow that sort of stuff. If a game looks good and I have the money I'll give it a go.

I didn't understand how multiplayer would have worked, but I wasn't planning on playing it multiplayer so that didn't matter to me either.

 

They're the kind of people we've always looked for, the kind who drop money and don't talk or question. 

[Oak7603]

Of course and I don;t deny that but I don't feel bad. I just backed a bad horse. I'll survive.

[NexusHelium]

Hey guys, in case you didn't know.

From what I understand, there are three more layoffs I are aware of and they are, as far as I can see:

Dakota, Mike, and Gwen.

If any of you see this, I'm so sorry and I hope you find another amazing team to work with. It's been a fantastic journey with you guys on the road and all of you at Intercept made KSP 2 that much better.

I'm so sorry about this fate. You guys were honestly some of my favorite devs. Seriously.

It's been real o7 

Edited May 3 by NexusHelium
o7

[Meecrob]

The game failed because they dumbed it down too much.

[Flush Foot]

7 minutes ago, NexusHelium said:

Hey guys, in case you didn't know.

From what I understand, there are three more layoffs I are aware of and they are, as far as I can see:

Dakota, Mike, and Gwen.

If any of you see this, I'm so sorry and I hope you find another amazing team to work with. It's been a fantastic journey with you guys on the road and all of you at Intercept made KSP 2 that much better.

I'm so sorry about this fate. You guys were honestly some of my favorite devs. Seriously.

It's been real o7 

The first sentence of @Nerdy_Mike's tweet is actually maybe /kind of enlightening...

Unfortunately, I have by impacted by layoffs at Intercept Games. I am still working until late June to ensure all my work is left in good hands.
My time here has been nothing short of remarkable, as I've treasured every aspect of my role, from the fulfilling work to the incredible people, and our passionate Community. The journey of building the Community team has been particularly rewarding, and I'm forever grateful for the time I spent working with the amazing people at Intercept Games and I wish them nothing but the absolute best.
While words fail to fully capture my emotions, I'm also filled with optimism for the future. I'm ready to embrace the unknown and embark on a new chapter in my career.

[NexusHelium]

1 minute ago, Flush Foot said:

The first sentence of @Nerdy_Mike's tweet is actually maybe /kind of enlightening...

Unfortunately, I have by impacted by layoffs at Intercept Games. I am still working until late June to ensure all my work is left in good hands.
My time here has been nothing short of remarkable, as I've treasured every aspect of my role, from the fulfilling work to the incredible people, and our passionate Community. The journey of building the Community team has been particularly rewarding, and I'm forever grateful for the time I spent working with the amazing people at Intercept Games and I wish them nothing but the absolute best.
While words fail to fully capture my emotions, I'm also filled with optimism for the future. I'm ready to embrace the unknown and embark on a new chapter in my career.

Yeah. Still sad to see him go though  

(that's probably the first time i've used the sad face but hey. emotions are emotions)

[Infinite Aerospace]

2 hours ago, NexusHelium said:

Yeah. Still sad to see him go though  

(that's probably the first time i've used the sad face but hey. emotions are emotions)

"Unfortunately, I have by impacted by layoffs at Intercept Games. I am still working until late June to ensure all my work is left in good hands". 

This part I find intriguing, left in good hands? Is the game being 'handed off' to another group after the curtains fall on Intercept?

[Stevie_D]

I imagine he doesn't know himself. All he's doing is being a nice and courteous person and cleaning up files and writing notes as to what he was working on and where it was at, so that if someone comes after then they can pick it back up easier. That shows real class, btw. Many lesser people having been sacked would just do the bare minimum and clock out.

[Fizzlebop Smith]

It really doesn't matter why the game failed at this point.. it is my personal opinion it is now dead with no hope of ever surviving.

this is a sentiment that others in the discord share... those modders that spent a year building the foundation of what (nearly) every other mod uses.

Modders have long been responsible for the success of the KSP franchise.

As I have said in the past.. look at the major games that allow heavy mod support.. never winter nights, morrowind / skryrim, minecraft, space engineers, even sim city 3k / 4k all have active communities YEARS after they should have died.

If the modders of KSP2 pack up and leave .. well the game is pretty much f@k'd.

(I am not critical of this decision. I respect the hell out of the modders that spend untold hours on a passion I can experience too. I completely understand and support any choice to pull mods and prevent KSP2 from making money off of your work.)

 

 

 

[cocoscacao]

13 minutes ago, Stevie_D said:

That shows real class, btw. Many lesser people having been sacked would just do the bare minimum and clock out.

Or worse... Such a shame... 

Edited May 3 by cocoscacao

[Skorj]

4 hours ago, kfsone said:

Maybe if they're using their own UI system that would be true, but if they're using one of the popular unity-favored UIs (and it looks a lot like imgui to me, but I'm biased) then testing the sort of low-level brokeness isn't hard so long as it's not an afterthought, which isn't unusual in a post-indie team; sooooo many post mortems that go "well, testing... turns out you need it from the start". As I said, this isn't so much about the buttons themselves: it demonstrates that QA doesn't get the information it needs to perform quality control and testing, or a controlling interest over what gets into the code base. I've never related to some of my peers' disdain for needing QA approval for changes to make it into main/master/trunk.

To me, the failure is even more fundamental.  Since about 20 years ago, the firm cultural expectation was "you don't check in/merge to find out if it works, you check in/merge because you know (within reason) it works".  If you merged in a change with an easy-to-find bug, your change would get reverted and you'd have an unhappy conversation with your manager.  Test automation was a means to that end, but the burden was on you regardless.  QA (if it existed) only happened after that, to find subtle hard-to-find bugs. 

I almost have to go back to the previous century to remember a time when it was OK to check in code that broke anything that affected other people, and even that was only early in a release cycle.