Cupcake's Dropship Dealership...

[Immashift]

That's great! I tried making one of those for my dropships once but I'm so bad at planes I just gave up!

Cupcake...

Well I have a sneaking suspicion that the wing attachments would utterly fail under FAR, but I took it out, so I'm having fun with it

The fun part with dropships is that they're a lot more responsive than planes and you don't need to care about stalling it. You can also sit there and hover, which in a plane is very hard to do.

The hit you take is a little bit of efficiency, but they're just so versatile, especially with utility mods. Like for example I stick an airship envelope and an electric propeller on this dropship, and suddenly I can tool around Laythe or Duna forever, and get some real exploration done.

It's the reason I like those RCS tugs so much - they can just do so much. They're rearranging stuff in your videos all the time, then you take them down with you and use them as a sort of pseudo hover-car.

EDIT: Question about those actually - In the video it's hard to see exactly where your RCS ports on the tugs are. What are you doing to clip them together? Cause sticking linear ones on the outside of the tanks looks ugly.

Fun times: Just got done making all like 12 subassembly attachments for this dropship grand tour I'm apparently setting up to do

Now I just need to get a transfer stage plugged into the back of it rather than the launch stage I have, and I'll be good to go

The beauty of the RCS tugs at the front (attached to the dropship up front if you look), is that they're gonna help turn the whole thing once I get a heavy transfer stage & fuel bolted on the back.

Edited February 16, 2014 by Immashift

[Giggleplex777]

That's great! I tried making one of those for my dropships once but I'm so bad at planes I just gave up!

Cupcake...

Make a VTOL with wings!

[Cupcake...]

Well I have a sneaking suspicion that the wing attachments would utterly fail under FAR, but I took it out, so I'm having fun with it

The fun part with dropships is that they're a lot more responsive than planes and you don't need to care about stalling it. You can also sit there and hover, which in a plane is very hard to do.

The hit you take is a little bit of efficiency, but they're just so versatile, especially with utility mods. Like for example I stick an airship envelope and an electric propeller on this dropship, and suddenly I can tool around Laythe or Duna forever, and get some real exploration done.

It's the reason I like those RCS tugs so much - they can just do so much. They're rearranging stuff in your videos all the time, then you take them down with you and use them as a sort of pseudo hover-car.

EDIT: Question about those actually - In the video it's hard to see exactly where your RCS ports on the tugs are. What are you doing to clip them together? Cause sticking linear ones on the outside of the tanks looks ugly.

Fun times: Just got done making all like 12 subassembly attachments for this dropship grand tour I'm apparently setting up to do

Now I just need to get a transfer stage plugged into the back of it rather than the launch stage I have, and I'll be good to go

The beauty of the RCS tugs at the front (attached to the dropship up front if you look), is that they're gonna help turn the whole thing once I get a heavy transfer stage & fuel bolted on the back.

http://i.imgur.com/0lfVwN7.jpg

Wow, this is getting serious! If are going on a grand tour just make sure you pack more fuel then I did! As far as the RCS goes I just put the ports on upside down, so the nozzles are actually clipped inside the main body. Hope this helps.

Make a VTOL with wings!

If only I didn't suck at plane design.

Cupcake...

[Immashift]

Wow, this is getting serious! If are going on a grand tour just make sure you pack more fuel then I did! As far as the RCS goes I just put the ports on upside down, so the nozzles are actually clipped inside the main body. Hope this helps.

Cupcake...

Well one of the mods I'm using is Kethane, so fuel shouldn't be -that- large an issue provided I guessed right and I have the dV to reach Moho and slow down. [You know, I laughed rather hard at your solution to the fuel crisis - ram the heavy stuff off and cart the command pod home ]

I made the burn out to minmus and I'm currently putting modules onto the dropship's ports via the tugs to go down for the first trip.

It's funny you mention having enough fuel... For ease of assembly in orbit I launched most of this ship's fuel tanks empty. I also launched the main RCS tanks empty, so the tugs have spent about 95% of their fuel putting the ship together, and just getting modules onto the lander is stretching what I have left. Basically I have 10 units of RCS fuel left between the two tugs I did get them all on with it though. All I can say is fine controls are amazing for saving fuel.

Oh and the dropship is gonna have about 200 units of fuel for one aerospike to land. Buuuut it's minmus *shrug.

After that's done I can refuel the main ship.

I designed the X2-200 32 tanks on the drive stage (half orange tanks), to be compatible with the dropship's Jr. docking ports. So I stick a tug on each end of the tank, and dock it to the side of the dropship. One on either side and one on top provide a lot of fuel capacity when you're using a mod like Kethane. That's a problem I always had with my landers. I like them nice and compact, but that sacrifices raw capacity. Bolt-on tanks solve that nicely

It's also the main reason you see 6 reaction wheels on my dropship. Speaking of which, those have to be turned off when docked to the carrier or when you try to turn it snaps the module truss in half (lol).

I don't wanna gum up your thread with a bunch of modded craft pics lol, I wanna at least keep it related to the dropship itself. My focus this time was on versatility. One ship that does anything and can be reconfigured for the job at hand. I'll definitely throw everything into its own thread when this trip is complete. Goodness knows I've been hitting my screenshot key enough

This image shows the tanks on the transfer stage that are compatible with the dropship (in low gravity situations of course. The Jr. port isn't the sturdiest of things, and you'll probably tear the tanks off if you try to lift off real fast with them full).

Edited February 16, 2014 by Immashift

[Climberfx]

You have a pretty unique design here Cupcake...

[CakeNinjaProductions]

I recently noticed the "Wait, Where'd I Leave My Wallet?" challenge on Reddit.

Basically, you have to make a double round trip to the Mun, single launch, no refueling. However, since you have the Equinox or Carpatha, that would be a waste of your abilities.

I think you should do hard mode or more, if you choose to accept.

http://www.reddit.com/r/KerbalSpaceProgram/comments/1w3bny/challenge_wait_whered_i_leave_my_wallet/

I think single stage would qualify for Super Kerbalnaut Mode.

Also, are you taking submissions yet for The Contest? Mine's almost ready.

Edited February 16, 2014 by CakeNinjaProductions

[GarlandMP]

Well one of the mods I'm using is Kethane, so fuel shouldn't be -that- large an issue provided I guessed right and I have the dV to reach Moho and slow down. [You know, I laughed rather hard at your solution to the fuel crisis - ram the heavy stuff off and cart the command pod home ]

I made the burn out to minmus and I'm currently putting modules onto the dropship's ports via the tugs to go down for the first trip.

It's funny you mention having enough fuel... For ease of assembly in orbit I launched most of this ship's fuel tanks empty. I also launched the main RCS tanks empty, so the tugs have spent about 95% of their fuel putting the ship together, and just getting modules onto the lander is stretching what I have left. Basically I have 10 units of RCS fuel left between the two tugs I did get them all on with it though. All I can say is fine controls are amazing for saving fuel.

Oh and the dropship is gonna have about 200 units of fuel for one aerospike to land. Buuuut it's minmus *shrug.

After that's done I can refuel the main ship.

I designed the X2-200 32 tanks on the drive stage (half orange tanks), to be compatible with the dropship's Jr. docking ports. So I stick a tug on each end of the tank, and dock it to the side of the dropship. One on either side and one on top provide a lot of fuel capacity when you're using a mod like Kethane. That's a problem I always had with my landers. I like them nice and compact, but that sacrifices raw capacity. Bolt-on tanks solve that nicely

It's also the main reason you see 6 reaction wheels on my dropship. Speaking of which, those have to be turned off when docked to the carrier or when you try to turn it snaps the module truss in half (lol).

I don't wanna gum up your thread with a bunch of modded craft pics lol, I wanna at least keep it related to the dropship itself. My focus this time was on versatility. One ship that does anything and can be reconfigured for the job at hand. I'll definitely throw everything into its own thread when this trip is complete. Goodness knows I've been hitting my screenshot key enough

This image shows the tanks on the transfer stage that are compatible with the dropship (in low gravity situations of course. The Jr. port isn't the sturdiest of things, and you'll probably tear the tanks off if you try to lift off real fast with them full).

http://i.imgur.com/CTwFjgc.jpg

What is that inflatable-looking module in the middle of your craft and were did you get it?

-Garland

[Immashift]

What is that inflatable-looking module in the middle of your craft and were did you get it?

-Garland

It is indeed an inflatable habitation module, holds 6 too. It seemed logical on a multi-year voyage to give them some place decent to store the snacks and not go crazy.

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/64442-Habitat-Pack

[GarlandMP]

It is indeed an inflatable habitation module, holds 6 too. It seemed logical on a multi-year voyage to give them some place decent to store the snacks and not go crazy.

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/64442-Habitat-Pack

I greatly appreciate this! Already downloaded. :]

-Garland

[Cupcake...]

Well one of the mods I'm using is Kethane, so fuel shouldn't be -that- large an issue provided I guessed right and I have the dV to reach Moho and slow down. [You know, I laughed rather hard at your solution to the fuel crisis - ram the heavy stuff off and cart the command pod home ]

I made the burn out to minmus and I'm currently putting modules onto the dropship's ports via the tugs to go down for the first trip.

It's funny you mention having enough fuel... For ease of assembly in orbit I launched most of this ship's fuel tanks empty. I also launched the main RCS tanks empty, so the tugs have spent about 95% of their fuel putting the ship together, and just getting modules onto the lander is stretching what I have left. Basically I have 10 units of RCS fuel left between the two tugs I did get them all on with it though. All I can say is fine controls are amazing for saving fuel.

Oh and the dropship is gonna have about 200 units of fuel for one aerospike to land. Buuuut it's minmus *shrug.

After that's done I can refuel the main ship.

I designed the X2-200 32 tanks on the drive stage (half orange tanks), to be compatible with the dropship's Jr. docking ports. So I stick a tug on each end of the tank, and dock it to the side of the dropship. One on either side and one on top provide a lot of fuel capacity when you're using a mod like Kethane. That's a problem I always had with my landers. I like them nice and compact, but that sacrifices raw capacity. Bolt-on tanks solve that nicely

It's also the main reason you see 6 reaction wheels on my dropship. Speaking of which, those have to be turned off when docked to the carrier or when you try to turn it snaps the module truss in half (lol).

I don't wanna gum up your thread with a bunch of modded craft pics lol, I wanna at least keep it related to the dropship itself. My focus this time was on versatility. One ship that does anything and can be reconfigured for the job at hand. I'll definitely throw everything into its own thread when this trip is complete. Goodness knows I've been hitting my screenshot key enough

This image shows the tanks on the transfer stage that are compatible with the dropship (in low gravity situations of course. The Jr. port isn't the sturdiest of things, and you'll probably tear the tanks off if you try to lift off real fast with them full).

http://i.imgur.com/CTwFjgc.jpg

Cool, I'm looking forward to more mission updates once you get underway, good luck!

You have a pretty unique design here Cupcake...

Thanks, it's a pretty simple craft but it does the job.

I recently noticed the "Wait, Where'd I Leave My Wallet?" challenge on Reddit.

Basically, you have to make a double round trip to the Mun, single launch, no refueling. However, since you have the Equinox or Carpatha, that would be a waste of your abilities.

I think you should do hard mode or more, if you choose to accept.

http://www.reddit.com/r/KerbalSpaceProgram/comments/1w3bny/challenge_wait_whered_i_leave_my_wallet/

I think single stage would qualify for Super Kerbalnaut Mode.

Also, are you taking submissions yet for The Contest? Mine's almost ready.

Funnily enough I was thinking about taking part in that challenge, I might give it a crack this weekend (with video of course!). I was going to use the Equinox, the only thing I might need to change is taking extra jet fuel instead of the rocket fuel drop tanks. Anyway, I'll give it a dry run first and see what happens.

As far as the contest goes I thought you were going to be running it! Either way I think that'll be best, for a start you've got an entry that's ready to go, plus due to real life commitments I'm not sure if I can give it the time it needs.

Cupcake...

[CakeNinjaProductions]

As far as the contest goes I thought you were going to be running it! Either way I think that'll be best, for a start you've got an entry that's ready to go, plus due to real life commitments I'm not sure if I can give it the time it needs.

Cupcake...

Oh. Ok. Thank you.

Maybe I could just manage the whole thing, set up an email, etc, and send you quick links to the vids people post. All you'd have to do is post a video about the contest and quickly judge five-minute videos I send you.

I can't really do this thing entirely alone, because if I did, I'm not popular enough for anyone to know or care about it.

Based on my patented contest calculation (assuming the number of possible participants is the number of your subscribers) , you will get between 3 and 8 submissions, which is a max of only 40 minutes judging. It will probably be less though.

(If I did it, however, the announcement video would get 3 veiws and 2 of them would be people who accidentally clicked on the vid.)

Edited February 17, 2014 by CakeNinjaProductions

[Immashift]

Cupcake... Have you tried updating any of your dropships with the RAPIER?

I took the somewhat-minnow-copy I created yesterday, lobbed the two droptank stages off it, took off the aerospike, and crammed in three RAPIERs.

Apparently it now reaches orbit in entirely one stage. Although I did bind the intake decouple to something so I can drop them when the RAPIERs switch modes.

I think my clip-fu needs some work. The fuel lines on the underside bug me, as do the RAPIER mounts themselves. Wonder if I can clip fuel lines inside the tank model (legitly).

[Cupcake...]

Cupcake... Have you tried updating any of your dropships with the RAPIER?

I took the somewhat-minnow-copy I created yesterday, lobbed the two droptank stages off it, took off the aerospike, and crammed in three RAPIERs.

Apparently it now reaches orbit in entirely one stage. Although I did bind the intake decouple to something so I can drop them when the RAPIERs switch modes.

I think my clip-fu needs some work. The fuel lines on the underside bug me, as do the RAPIER mounts themselves. Wonder if I can clip fuel lines inside the tank model (legitly).

http://i.imgur.com/zZrIS9T.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/5a5kprs.png

I've had a bit of a play with the Rapier but I don't think it offers any real advantages over my current setup. The problem with the Rapier is you can't run the rocket and jet together. With most of my SSTOs I can build up speed at 30K with then jets, then pitch up and have the jets and rockets working in tandem to really give the ship that final push into orbit.

Cupcake...

[speedboiae86]

Just thought I'd pop in to show this off. I've been fiddling around with the latest version of your Tadpole lander, and came up with this for it.

Cuz "Ain' nobody got time" to build a giant rocket, I present the Hercules Class Jet Engine VTOL Lifter. Capable of carrying a Tadpole up to about 26km in altitude before flaming out (despite the intake stacking...). Once they flame out, it's best to just ditch them and continue on rocket power from the Tadpole itself.

I'll put up a download if interest warrants.

[CakeNinjaProductions]

As far as the contest goes I thought you were going to be running it! Either way I think that'll be best, for a start you've got an entry that's ready to go, plus due to real life commitments I'm not sure if I can give it the time it needs.

Cupcake...

Oh. Ok. Thank you.

Maybe I could just manage the whole thing, set up an email, etc, and send you quick links to the vids people post. All you'd have to do is post a video about the contest and quickly judge five-minute videos I send you.

I can't really do this thing entirely alone, because if I did, I'm not popular enough for anyone to know or care about it.

Based on my patented contest calculation (assuming the number of possible participants is the number of your subscribers) , you will get between 3 and 8 submissions, which is a max of only 40 minutes judging. It will probably be less though.

(If I did it, however, the announcement video would get 3 veiws and 2 of them would be people who accidentally clicked on the vid.)

[Immashift]

I've had a bit of a play with the Rapier but I don't think it offers any real advantages over my current setup. The problem with the Rapier is you can't run the rocket and jet together. With most of my SSTOs I can build up speed at 30K with then jets, then pitch up and have the jets and rockets working in tandem to really give the ship that final push into orbit.

Cupcake...

This is true. I know sometimes it's better to use separate rockets, especially if you intend on doing fine work with a dropship. Using weaker rockets will basically get rid of turbo lag for you, and like you said, they can work in tandem at high altitudes to get it up to orbit. The thing that keeps me coming back to the rapier though is that it's not dead weight at one end of the launch. Rockets are essentially dead weight goiing up, and jets are dead weight on leaving the atmosphere. That and with three of them, what I could do if I really wanted to milk it, is switch them over sequentially. Like when intake drops below what three will use, switch the middle one to rocket mode, and switch the outer ones when they can't get air again.

Then again I probably lost some dV while in space cramming three rapiers into it.

Just thought I'd pop in to show this off. I've been fiddling around with the latest version of your Tadpole lander, and came up with this for it.

Cuz "Ain' nobody got time" to build a giant rocket, I present the Hercules Class Jet Engine VTOL Lifter. Capable of carrying a Tadpole up to about 26km in altitude before flaming out (despite the intake stacking...). Once they flame out, it's best to just ditch them and continue on rocket power from the Tadpole itself.

I'll put up a download if interest warrants.

Seems you did something similar to my first setup, but with jets. I think I need to try that out too. Might be more efficient than using rapiers or two sets of those droptanks with aerospikes, which got me into orbit the first time.

Edited February 17, 2014 by Immashift

[Cupcake...]

Just thought I'd pop in to show this off. I've been fiddling around with the latest version of your Tadpole lander, and came up with this for it.

https://scontent-b-sea.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/t1/1888618_10152202363746815_460576477_n.jpg

Cuz "Ain' nobody got time" to build a giant rocket, I present the Hercules Class Jet Engine VTOL Lifter. Capable of carrying a Tadpole up to about 26km in altitude before flaming out (despite the intake stacking...). Once they flame out, it's best to just ditch them and continue on rocket power from the Tadpole itself.

https://scontent-b-sea.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/t1/556015_10152202364251815_457182596_n.jpg

I'll put up a download if interest warrants.

Wow, you've really tricked that puppy out! A better choice for this sort of rig might be to build it right under the engine, keeping the jets closer together like that will give better handling and reduce the effects of the flameouts. You won't have any issues with decouplers or anything if you did want to go down that route.

This is true. I know sometimes it's better to use separate rockets, especially if you intend on doing fine work with a dropship. Using weaker rockets will basically get rid of turbo lag for you, and like you said, they can work in tandem at high altitudes to get it up to orbit. The thing that keeps me coming back to the rapier though is that it's not dead weight at one end of the launch. Rockets are essentially dead weight goiing up, and jets are dead weight on leaving the atmosphere. That and with three of them, what I could do if I really wanted to milk it, is switch them over sequentially. Like when intake drops below what three will use, switch the middle one to rocket mode, and switch the outer ones when they can't get air again.

Then again I probably lost some dV while in space cramming three rapiers into it.

Seems you did something similar to my first setup, but with jets. I think I need to try that out too. Might be more efficient than using rapiers or two sets of those droptanks with aerospikes, which got me into orbit the first time.

Hmmm, maybe I should give the Rapiers another try sometime. But yeah, three might be a bit much! The less engines you have the better really!

Cupcake...

Edited February 17, 2014 by Cupcake...

[The14th]

I remain a RAPIER sceptic. To me it feels like "one thing doing two things, half as good."

Plus, I'm bad at piloting VTOLs so the separate rocket engines come in handy as a sort of panic button!

Of course, I await being proved wrong by some awesome design one of you guys come up with!

Just thought I'd pop in to show this off. I've been fiddling around with the latest version of your Tadpole lander, and came up with this for it.

https://scontent-b-sea.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/t1/1888618_10152202363746815_460576477_n.jpg

Oh, I'm liking this idea of a new line of Tadpole Accessories! All those ports have been crying out for a series of modules/pods for different mission specs!

[Immashift]

Hmmm, maybe I should give the Rapiers another try sometime. But yeah, three might be a bit much! The less engines you have the better really!

Cupcake...

The problem I had with using less was they don't seem to have that much oomph as a vtol. I ran into issues where it would get to about 18km up, and then not have enough thrust to send it higher. Probably because my dropship doesn't use wings to generate lift. One Rapier doesn't even lift it off the runway, two has the transition problem high up, and adding the third finally got it to orbit. Maybe I'll mess with using one Rapier mounted in the craft, and then two externals I drop after I get my apoapsis. That might make more sense.

Oh, I'm liking this idea of a new line of Tadpole Accessories! All those ports have been crying out for a series of modules/pods for different mission specs!

I think it was designed with that in mind. So was the ship I created. Extra fuel pods are only the beginning

In fact, the carrier I designed to take it around the solar system was designed to be modular itself too.

I sent most of the ship up dry, so as soon as I got to minmus it was time to refuel. That meant taking out the various modules of the carrier, and strapping them to the dropship to fill up.

Here's the dropship outfitted for Kethane mining. The carrier was mostly full at this point and only the RCS and one fuel pod were left to fill, so I chose to take both at once. This is the reason I crammed so many reaction wheels on it. It's completely stable up to about 85% throttle.

The only problem I found with a fully modular system is that you have to micromanage the ship a LOT. Especially if you do what I did and don't even put RCS on it, and instead rely on external tugs to move it around. I think just refueling and going to moho I probably docked and undocked those tugs at least fifty times messing around with various modules.

I actually got annoyed enough with it that I went back to the SPH and gave the dropship some RCS of its own.

Edited February 17, 2014 by Immashift

[speedboiae86]

Wow, you've really tricked that puppy out! A better choice for this sort of rig might be to build it right under the engine, keeping the jets closer together like that will give better handling and reduce the effects of the flameouts. You won't have any issues with decouplers or anything if you did want to go down that route.

Hmmm, maybe I should give the Rapiers another try sometime. But yeah, three might be a bit much! The less engines you have the better really!

Cupcake...

Hmmm, not sure about going that route, unless I somehow was able to build the rig underneath with radial decouplers. I know it takes at least 4 turbojets to lift a fully fueled Tadpole off the ground. Alternatively, you could stick a Tadpole on top of a Bulldog and lift it that way, but why do something with two ships when you can do it just as good with one?

My ultimate goal is try and SSTO that bad boy.

[Payload]

I remain a RAPIER sceptic. To me it feels like "one thing doing two things, half as good."

Plus, I'm bad at piloting VTOLs so the separate rocket engines come in handy as a sort of panic button!

Of course, I await being proved wrong by some awesome design one of you guys come up with!

Nah man rapiers are good. They work with far less air than the turbo jets. Plus, they switch automatically. Those intakes I see you guys slapping all over your crafts are just dead weight. At some point, each one is only buying you 50m altitude. The secrets is to point them in the right direction and only use ram air ones. A 4:1 ratio easily gets me up to 30k+ at 1700ms horizontal velocity. If you face them all the right direction, you can use far fewer of them. You can still clip them and hide them but they at least need to be facing the right direction to get the most out of them

[barrenwaste]

Huh, I get better performance out of the jets, as long as you throttle down handsomely you should be able to gain speed and altitude even at .00 air intake. Maybe it's just because I know jets and their character better. I'm also not impressed by how slow, weak, and thirsty the rapiers are, especially at lower altitudes and during the switch. I'm a bit guilty of slapping on to many air intakes, no joke, but the added weight doesn't matter because of how much more powerful the jets are. A jet/rocket combo dual mounted with a small square strut has far better performance in all the builds I've tried. To each their own, I suppose, but for now I remain an oldschool flyer.

[Cupcake...]

The problem I had with using less was they don't seem to have that much oomph as a vtol. I ran into issues where it would get to about 18km up, and then not have enough thrust to send it higher. Probably because my dropship doesn't use wings to generate lift. One Rapier doesn't even lift it off the runway, two has the transition problem high up, and adding the third finally got it to orbit. Maybe I'll mess with using one Rapier mounted in the craft, and then two externals I drop after I get my apoapsis. That might make more sense.

I think it was designed with that in mind. So was the ship I created. Extra fuel pods are only the beginning

In fact, the carrier I designed to take it around the solar system was designed to be modular itself too.

I sent most of the ship up dry, so as soon as I got to minmus it was time to refuel. That meant taking out the various modules of the carrier, and strapping them to the dropship to fill up.

http://i.imgur.com/nDW1uio.jpg

Here's the dropship outfitted for Kethane mining. The carrier was mostly full at this point and only the RCS and one fuel pod were left to fill, so I chose to take both at once. This is the reason I crammed so many reaction wheels on it. It's completely stable up to about 85% throttle.

http://i.imgur.com/rAbDBA0.jpg

The only problem I found with a fully modular system is that you have to micromanage the ship a LOT. Especially if you do what I did and don't even put RCS on it, and instead rely on external tugs to move it around. I think just refueling and going to moho I probably docked and undocked those tugs at least fifty times messing around with various modules.

I actually got annoyed enough with it that I went back to the SPH and gave the dropship some RCS of its own.

Sweet it's all coming together. Generally it pays to pack a bit of RCS on the lander, usually I only add around 80 units of RCS which is more then enough really. I don't seem to use more then a teaspoon full when docking. Also it might pay to put Mechjeb units on the tugs, that way they can operate semi autonomously, cutting down on the micro management side of things.

I remain a RAPIER sceptic. To me it feels like "one thing doing two things, half as good."

Plus, I'm bad at piloting VTOLs so the separate rocket engines come in handy as a sort of panic button!

Of course, I await being proved wrong by some awesome design one of you guys come up with!

Oh, I'm liking this idea of a new line of Tadpole Accessories! All those ports have been crying out for a series of modules/pods for different mission specs!

We should start a Tadpole owners association! I'll upload those little space scooters I made sometime, something to get the ball rolling.

Hmmm, not sure about going that route, unless I somehow was able to build the rig underneath with radial decouplers. I know it takes at least 4 turbojets to lift a fully fueled Tadpole off the ground. Alternatively, you could stick a Tadpole on top of a Bulldog and lift it that way, but why do something with two ships when you can do it just as good with one?

My ultimate goal is try and SSTO that bad boy.

Ah right, well I was thinking you could just have the one decoupler under the main engine and build off that, but I guess there's a million and one ways to do it. Good luck though, I hope it comes together!

Nah man rapiers are good. They work with far less air than the turbo jets. Plus, they switch automatically. Those intakes I see you guys slapping all over your crafts are just dead weight. At some point, each one is only buying you 50m altitude. The secrets is to point them in the right direction and only use ram air ones. A 4:1 ratio easily gets me up to 30k+ at 1700ms horizontal velocity. If you face them all the right direction, you can use far fewer of them. You can still clip them and hide them but they at least need to be facing the right direction to get the most out of them

Huh, I get better performance out of the jets, as long as you throttle down handsomely you should be able to gain speed and altitude even at .00 air intake. Maybe it's just because I know jets and their character better. I'm also not impressed by how slow, weak, and thirsty the rapiers are, especially at lower altitudes and during the switch. I'm a bit guilty of slapping on to many air intakes, no joke, but the added weight doesn't matter because of how much more powerful the jets are. A jet/rocket combo dual mounted with a small square strut has far better performance in all the builds I've tried. To each their own, I suppose, but for now I remain an oldschool flyer.

I'm still not convinced about the Rapiers, but maybe I do need to give them another chance. As far as the intakes go, in my case they're an important aesthetic feature of the craft as much as anything else, despite being mostly comprised of the less efficient variety. My feeling with intakes in general is that it's better to have more then less, the weight difference is negligible really and I'm not sure having a few less intakes will drastically affect the performance of the craft.

What I have tried to do in more recent models is to mount some of the intakes on the drop tanks to get a bit a performance boost there. From what I've found though 1 turbo jet will get you to the Mun and back, 2 will get you a return ticket to Laythe/Duna and 4.. well I'll get back to you on that! But my point is I don't think having less intakes will affect these benchmarks a great deal.

Cupcake...

[KissSh0t]

I like the little rcs thingies that the kerbals can ride.. they are heaps cool..

[The14th]

I'll upload those little space scooters I made sometime, something to get the ball rolling.

I like the little rcs thingies that the kerbals can ride.. they are heaps cool..

Totally! /signed