[1.12.*] Deadly Reentry v7.9.0 The Barbie Edition, Aug 5th, 2021

[Bakase]

You can probably get away with deleting them if you want. DRE certainly has no dependency on them. Any ill effects are on you though!

I have no idea what 'unifying' them entails. I'm inclined to leave the stock resource alone however unless there's some compelling reason otherwise. (deleting a resource that could potentially exist in someone's save file is a very BAD thing. We're talking 'cross the streams' bad)

Can't you make the DRE plugin/parts use Ablator instead of the current DR specific resource?

[Enceos]

I have no idea what 'unifying' them entails. I'm inclined to leave the stock resource alone however unless there's some compelling reason otherwise. (deleting a resource that could potentially exist in someone's save file is a very BAD thing. We're talking 'cross the streams' bad)

Then why not stick with Ablator only?

Edited May 12, 2015 by Enceos

[linuxgurugamer]

Starwaster,

Thank you so much for updating this to 1.0

I hope I'm not pushing a button here :-)

(I accidently pushed someone else's button when I mentioned CKAN, if this is an issue, please accept my apologies in advance)

CKAN, while it seems to know about v7.0.1, doesn't think it is compatible with 1.0 yet.

[Ulrich Von Straunsberg]

I just noticed the picture in DRE's menu. Was Melificent your cat? Sorry for your loss, man.

[smunisto]

Um, I have no idea if I did something the wrong way, but Communotron 88s seem to be unshielded by Proc Fairings and burn up before I even reach 200 m/s after launch. And their temp skyrockets pretty fast after launch. No idea about the other parts inside the fairings.

https://bg3.biz/cloud/index.php/s/aUmtubT9mwmo09c

Output log.

EDIT: Swapped out PF fairings with Stock ones and they work flawlessly.

EDIT 2: Also MM shows 3 errors in DeadlyReentry.cfg on load.

Edited May 12, 2015 by smunisto

[jofwu]

There have been a few reentry heat warning mods show up over the last two weeks or so. Does DRE come with any such functionality, or can anybody recommend a mod which works well with DRE? I'd prefer to have a sense of when my ship is about to blow up before it actually does. It's not fun when ship's just explode out of nowhere.

[Ser]

There have been a few reentry heat warning mods show up over the last two weeks or so. Does DRE come with any such functionality, or can anybody recommend a mod which works well with DRE? I'd prefer to have a sense of when my ship is about to blow up before it actually does. It's not fun when ship's just explode out of nowhere.

My ships had never just exploded. They usually start from the most sensible part burning. Then another one and another. So you know that IT has begun As for monitoring, I simply look at temperature of a part that is the most exposed to the plasma. It is usually the hottest one and when it reaches a critical temp your ship is about to blow up (if it's over 1500 degrees and rising you may start to worry).

[Quiana]

Then why not stick with Ablator only?

I'm with Enceos on this one. The Ablator resource in stock has the same density/etc as your own AblativeShielding resource. I think the question isn't making/altering the stock resource (unless you feel the resource values need to change) but in using the existing one instead of having a separate resource tracked by just your use (or others tying into DRE) since it would be assumed most other heat shields/etc are tying into Ablator. Since the values are the same right now for both resources and I do not think the heat shield weight/cost has ever been an issue, it makes good sense to go ahead and tie into the stock one and drop the extra resource.

[diomedea]

I also put my vote (for what it may be worth) for the use of stock Ablator as the only resource with all heatshields.

Others already explained why, and I agree with their points.

P.S.: sorry about your cat, Starwaster. I lost one much beloved black cat myself, remains in my thoughts always.

[Starwaster]

Then why not stick with Ablator only?

Because it's a stock resource that I don't control. Squad could change something about it in the next update, or the one after that or the one after that.

Secondly, there's no reason to.

Starwaster,

Thank you so much for updating this to 1.0

I hope I'm not pushing a button here :-)

(I accidently pushed someone else's button when I mentioned CKAN, if this is an issue, please accept my apologies in advance)

CKAN, while it seems to know about v7.0.1, doesn't think it is compatible with 1.0 yet.

WHAT??? You say WHAT to me? YOU SAY SEE-KAN?!??

I KILL YOU! I KILL YOU FILTHY!

No, just kidding. I'm sort of aware of the CKAN situation but I have no idea why that is... I think it might be because it's looking at the DeadlyReentry.version file and when I first pushed the update, the version file change didn't get picked up. (there was a problem merging branches and I had to do it by hand)

SO maybe it needs time for the new change to propagate.

I'll ask the CKAN folks if they know what's up and how to fix it.

I just noticed the picture in DRE's menu. Was Melificent your cat? Sorry for your loss, man.

Thanks Yes, she was my girl and she passed away a few days after Valentine's day after being ill for awhile.

So this update is dedicated to her.

Um, I have no idea if I did something the wrong way, but Communotron 88s seem to be unshielded by Proc Fairings and burn up before I even reach 200 m/s after launch. And their temp skyrockets pretty fast after launch. No idea about the other parts inside the fairings.

https://bg3.biz/cloud/index.php/s/aUmtubT9mwmo09c

Output log.

EDIT: Swapped out PF fairings with Stock ones and they work flawlessly.

EDIT 2: Also MM shows 3 errors in DeadlyReentry.cfg on load.

You can *mostly* ignore those errors. I think I know what those are and I updated the file. If you go a page or two back you can find the link to it on the github site.

Uhm... I have no idea how you're burning ANYTHING up because you also happen to have 3192 errors in UpdateConvection.

I think that's a problem I'm already looking into; I encountered it myself and I thought it was fixed.

I'll also look into the proc fairing problem. It might have been a conduction issue...

There have been a few reentry heat warning mods show up over the last two weeks or so. Does DRE come with any such functionality, or can anybody recommend a mod which works well with DRE? I'd prefer to have a sense of when my ship is about to blow up before it actually does. It's not fun when ship's just explode out of nowhere.

I don't think any of those mods will currently work (properly) with DRE because it's the skin damage that will kill you first and they won't even see that unless they use reflection to look at ModuleAeroReentry and lookup skinTemperature.

That's not too hard to do.

[Svm420]

Because it's a stock resource that I don't control. Squad could change something about it in the next update, or the one after that or the one after that.

Secondly, there's no reason to.

i agree with this seems safer for future proofing.

[Svm420]

Alright testing not at 4am much more productive. I Think I have the issue locked down. It seems I had the baro and thermometer with 0 mass. I think this was causing some issue in a calculation run by DR. I could get the issue consistently with ships containing either part. Any merit to this theory Starwaster? Does that seem possible?I am about to reload the game with corrected masses. Ill post results.

- - - Updated - - -

Thought those would merge like this hmmmm

- - - Updated - - -

ding ding ding we have a winner. DR hates when you mock physics with massless parts.

Edit. I should make it clear this was from a MM patch I had from another mod. NOT a stock issue.

Edited May 12, 2015 by Svm420

[zengei]

I'll ask the CKAN folks if they know what's up and how to fix it.

Deadly Reentry should be fine in CKAN with this pull request.

[Starwaster]

Alright testing not at 4am much more productive. I Think I have the issue locked down. It seems I had the baro and thermometer with 0 mass. I think this was causing some issue in a calculation run by DR. I could get the issue consistently with ships containing either part. Any merit to this theory Starwaster? Does that seem possible?I am about to reload the game with corrected masses. Ill post results.

- - - Updated - - -

Thought those would merge like this hmmmm

- - - Updated - - -

ding ding ding we have a winner. DR hates when you mock physics with massless parts.

It's not really massless though, it's just very low-mass.

Let's run through the math and see what's happening here

mass = 0.005 (5 kg, that's a heavy barometer)

mass * specificHeat of 800 = thermal mass 4

skinThermalMass = (thermalMass * 0.1) = 0.4

now, this part here isn't terribly realistic, but when skinMaxTemp is reached the entire part explodes. That's not very realistic and it's going to change in a future update. I think probably I will have it take damage like when parts caught fire in earlier versions of DRE. You know, as hot plasma enters through the breach.

But for now, the barometer has an effective thermalMass of 0.4, a maxTemp of 1200 and it will explode when it absorbs 480 kW of heat.

So I think what I'll do here is give it a skinThicknessFactor of 1. That way it will take 10x as much incoming flux to destroy it. (assuming that it's convection that's getting it)

Deadly Reentry should be fine in CKAN with this pull request.

Thanks man!

[jofwu]

Do Ablator and AblativeShielding work the same way? Or does DRE wear them both in the same manner? If so... for those who just want Ablator, wouldn't a simple Module Manager config to swap parts with AblativeShielding to Ablator work? Or vice versa? Just have to remember to disable that first before reporting any apparent bugs.

Also, I'm just curious... I dug around in the files and wasn't patient enough to find an answer. How does DRE determine "skinThermalMass"? Is it always 10% of thermalMass as in Starwaster's example above? I saw some MM configs which seemed to specify some DRE values for individual parts... But I would assume there's a general case for other parts we happen to have. And do the values I saw for individual parts match this general case? How does all of that work?

Oh, and same question for skinMaxTemp.

And now that I think about it... What about specificHeat for non-stock parts? Does the game assign a number or is it up to mods to include that in part configs? And if they don't, what happens?

[Yemo]

It's not really massless though, it's just very low-mass.

Let's run through the math and see what's happening here

mass = 0.005 (5 kg, that's a heavy barometer)

mass * specificHeat of 800 = thermal mass 4

skinThermalMass = (thermalMass * 0.1) = 0.4

now, this part here isn't terribly realistic, but when skinMaxTemp is reached the entire part explodes. That's not very realistic and it's going to change in a future update. I think probably I will have it take damage like when parts caught fire in earlier versions of DRE. You know, as hot plasma enters through the breach.

But for now, the barometer has an effective thermalMass of 0.4, a maxTemp of 1200 and it will explode when it absorbs 480 kW of heat.

So I think what I'll do here is give it a skinThicknessFactor of 1. That way it will take 10x as much incoming flux to destroy it. (assuming that it's convection that's getting it)

Thanks man!

Thermometer, Barometer, Struts and FuelLines have a mass of 0.0 with SETI-CTT.

I do not care much about the Thermometer and Barometer mass, but Struts are often used to overcome game engine and game design limitations/annoyances.

[Svm420]

It's not really massless though, it's just very low-mass.

Let's run through the math and see what's happening here

mass = 0.005 (5 kg, that's a heavy barometer)

mass * specificHeat of 800 = thermal mass 4

skinThermalMass = (thermalMass * 0.1) = 0.4

now, this part here isn't terribly realistic, but when skinMaxTemp is reached the entire part explodes. That's not very realistic and it's going to change in a future update. I think probably I will have it take damage like when parts caught fire in earlier versions of DRE. You know, as hot plasma enters through the breach.

But for now, the barometer has an effective thermalMass of 0.4, a maxTemp of 1200 and it will explode when it absorbs 480 kW of heat.

So I think what I'll do here is give it a skinThicknessFactor of 1. That way it will take 10x as much incoming flux to destroy it. (assuming that it's convection that's getting it)

Thanks man!

Thats what you get for taking the time to write out a thoughtful, well written post. I edited to say that I had a cfg change the mass to actually be 0. Cause I knew that wouldn't be obvious that I had made that change.

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Ninjad by Yemo

- - - Updated - - -

Also Starwater I want to give a try to editing my personal configs for your mod from the Tantares mod. I was wondreing what I should do to calculate skinHeatConductivity for a heatshield and what consideration I should make. Thank you again for the update, for the advice and help figuring out my own issue!

Nevermind I see you fix the issue yourself I just need to remove their compatibility file as yours handles it. Thanks!

Edited May 12, 2015 by Svm420

[Starwaster]

Do Ablator and AblativeShielding work the same way? Or does DRE wear them both in the same manner? If so... for those who just want Ablator, wouldn't a simple Module Manager config to swap parts with AblativeShielding to Ablator work? Or vice versa? Just have to remember to disable that first before reporting any apparent bugs.

Also, I'm just curious... I dug around in the files and wasn't patient enough to find an answer. How does DRE determine "skinThermalMass"? Is it always 10% of thermalMass as in Starwaster's example above? I saw some MM configs which seemed to specify some DRE values for individual parts... But I would assume there's a general case for other parts we happen to have. And do the values I saw for individual parts match this general case? How does all of that work?

Oh, and same question for skinMaxTemp.

And now that I think about it... What about specificHeat for non-stock parts? Does the game assign a number or is it up to mods to include that in part configs? And if they don't, what happens?

People are obsessing about the Ablator vs AblativeShielding a bit too much

Deadly Reentry has ALWAYS had a resource called AblativeShielding. I'm not changing that just because Squad finally got off their rocket nozzles and decided to do something about reentry heating. I'm also not going to tamper with the new stock resource they made to go along with it. There's just no reason to and it hurts nothing for it to sit there quietly doing nothing. I still don't even get what problem people think there is to be solved with the two resources. Just ignore it and pretend it doesn't exist. They will quite literally accomplish the same thing as whatever it is they think would be accomplished by 'unifying' the two.

It's a non-issue

Now, thermalMass:

The skin stuff that you can assign is:

skinThicknessFactor (defaults to 0.1)

skinThermalMassModifier (defaults to 1.0)

skinHeatConductivity (defaults to 0.12)

skinMaxTemp (defaults to part.maxTemp)

So:

skinThermalMass = part.mass * skinThicknessFactor * skinThermalMassModifier * PhysicsGlobal.standardSpecificHeatCapacity (value of 800)

Resources have a specific heat: It's called hsp in the resource node

Parts don't have a separate specific heat, they just use the global specific heat default of 800. That's what thermalMassModifier is for.

Should the part have a specific heat of 400? Set thermalMassModifier to 0.5

Should it be 1000? Set thermalMassModifier to 1.25

Accomplishes pretty much the same thing as if parts had a separate specific heat setting.

skinHeatConductivity controls how fast the skin will conduct heat to the interior. The largest of skinHeatConductivity and part.heatConductivity will be used. (they default to the same thing)

[Yemo]

What about parts with mass = 0.0?

Thermometer, Barometer, Struts and FuelLines have a mass of 0.0 with SETI-CTT.

I do not care much about the Thermometer and Barometer mass, but Struts are often used to overcome game engine and game design limitations/annoyances.

[BmB]

Deadly Reentry has ALWAYS had a resource called AblativeShielding. I'm not changing that just because Squad finally got off their rocket nozzles and decided to do something about reentry heating. I'm also not going to tamper with the new stock resource they made to go along with it. There's just no reason to and it hurts nothing for it to sit there quietly doing nothing. I still don't even get what problem people think there is to be solved with the two resources. Just ignore it and pretend it doesn't exist. They will quite literally accomplish the same thing as whatever it is they think would be accomplished by 'unifying' the two.

I think you're the one obsessing. If you use Ablator every third party heat shield will work with DR no fuss. AblativeShielding is asking for incompatibility issues. Since there's no difference you're breaking compatibility for no reason whatsoever. That is an issue. If Squad breaks something about Ablator in the future you can always re-introduce your own resource for that update. Don't be a diva about this, more mods working together is always good. And here is a system that enables that. When there's a stock resource don't think part mods will choose your special resource over that one.

[Gryphon]

When there's a stock resource don't think part mods will choose your special resource over that one.

Well, there are already part mods that are expecting AblativeShielding, soo...

Anyway, it's really a non issue.

[Yemo]

About the modded parts with mass = 0.0, could you just ignore them altogether for DeadlyReentry?

[jstnj]

I'm getting .cfg errors from Module Manager on startup...am I doing something wrong?

[Starwaster]

What about parts with mass = 0.0?

I could maybe treat them as having mass for thermal purposes... Can override thermalMass to have a minimum value

Well, there are already part mods that are expecting AblativeShielding, soo...

Anyway, it's really a non issue.

SHOULD be a non issue.

I think you're the one obsessing. If you use Ablator every third party heat shield will work with DR no fuss. AblativeShielding is asking for incompatibility issues. Since there's no difference you're breaking compatibility for no reason whatsoever. That is an issue. If Squad breaks something about Ablator in the future you can always re-introduce your own resource for that update. Don't be a diva about this, more mods working together is always good. And here is a system that enables that. When there's a stock resource don't think part mods will choose your special resource over that one.

The matter is decided and the discussion is over, especially if trolls are going to come in issuing ad hominem attacks. Deal with it.

I'm getting .cfg errors from Module Manager on startup...am I doing something wrong?

Replace the copy of DeadlyReentry.cfg in your DeadlyReentry folder with this file: https://raw.githubusercontent.com/Starwaster/DeadlyReentry/master/DeadlyReentry/DeadlyReentry.cfg

[xXIndestructibleEVAXx]

Hey, I just did a test. I came in at Kerbin, almost straight down, at almost 4 km/s and nothing exploded! All the craft was was a Mk 1-2 pod and a decupler, no crew, and it hit 15+ Gs, and there was a huge fireball, but none of the parts exploded. if you need a mods list or my output log, please tell me and I will get them.