FleshJeb Posted January 19, 2019 Share Posted January 19, 2019 @septemberWaves I vaguely recall how it works. No need to look at the plane or test it--I just thought it was an interesting technical exercise. Hoo boy, I forgot what a bear 3.2x is...I concede your point Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
septemberWaves Posted January 19, 2019 Share Posted January 19, 2019 I am not sure I understand how you are calculating lift here (spaceplanes are not my area of expertise; they are fun sometimes but mine are rarely anything close to optimal) but yes, 3.2x scale is rather extreme for spaceplanes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FleshJeb Posted January 19, 2019 Share Posted January 19, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, septemberWaves said: I am not sure I understand how you are calculating lift here I'm calculating the ratios of the amount of lift needed to do the same thing under the same conditions in both 1.0x and 3.2x If you're flying more or less nose-level to the horizon, how much of what's resisting gravity is centripetal acceleration (orbital speed), and how much is from the wings? How does this compare to the equivalent situation at 3.2x. In the first example, I've already designed the craft so that it will fly nose level at 25km at it's maximum airbreathing speed in 1.0x. This is typically specified in lift units/ton of craft. Let's say I used 0.67 lift units per ton (I just slapped wings on it by gut feel.) The ratio for 3.2x for those conditions is 158%. So to get the same performance I need 0.67 lift/ton * 158% = 1.06 lift/ton (+extra to account for the additional mass of the wings.) In reality, that's more drag and a lower top speed, so it's even worse. I made up the speeds and heights for examples 2 and 3, but they're not unreasonable. The ratio starts getting REALLY bad. (Also note that gravity changes with height, and it changes much more slowly at a larger scale.) A mitigating circumstance is that we're burning fuel this whole time, so our effective lift/ton IS going up, but probably not fast enough to keep up. This is all describing a path that slowly spirals up and out into orbit, while increasing our horizontal velocity. The wings are like a rocket thrusting radial out the whole time. The wings trade some drag (fuel) for lift, and they're pretty efficient at it (Lift-to-Drag ratio), but there's a point of diminishing returns. So, if you want to fly a plane to orbit in 3.2x, what you want to do is point your rockets more down to make up for the lack of wing. This is what a lot of people do in 1.0x. Get the plane up to speed and pitch up hard to loft themselves to desired apoapsis using the extra thrust from the rocket. Then they have plenty of time to circularize before they fall again, but they lose efficiency to gravity drag. Aaand I just realized I should have added Kerbin's rotational velocity to the speeds (which is probably going to be higher for 3.2x), but I already deleted the spreadsheet. I formally apologize for the extent to which I just nerded out. Edited January 19, 2019 by FleshJeb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sturmhauke Posted January 19, 2019 Share Posted January 19, 2019 3 hours ago, FleshJeb said: I formally apologize for the extent to which I just nerded out. Being a space nerd is a prerequisite for playing this game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triop Posted January 20, 2019 Share Posted January 20, 2019 (edited) Working on the YF-24, pulled the wings further to the back, this configuration needs to be tested because it can't carry as much fuel as type I due to aerodynamics. What I like about this design is the V-tail and having no outer intakes. Type II might look bigger in this picture, but that is just a optical illusion. Edited January 20, 2019 by Triop Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Servo Posted January 20, 2019 Share Posted January 20, 2019 I spent a lazy Saturday building an Il-76 per a request on KerbalX. It was actually an extremely smooth build process, without any major revisions costing time, and it took off on the first try. Two test flights later, it was ready to ship. Here's the build process, if you're curious: https://imgur.com/a/hFibdM0 This is the highest part count craft that I've planned on releasing, coming in at 800 parts on the nose. You get a lot of bang for your buck, though. I mean, just look at this thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torn4dO Posted January 20, 2019 Share Posted January 20, 2019 6 hours ago, Servo said: Awesome plane man! One question though, how do you build a fairing without closing it?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow dream Posted January 20, 2019 Share Posted January 20, 2019 1 hour ago, Torn4dO said: how do you build a fairing without closing it?? You can end fairings on other parts. As an example you can put a MK2 pod on top, some octagonal struts as extension (and clamp small satelites to it) and at the end the fairing plate. Then when building the fairing, you don't end it in a cone, but on the Mk2 pod. Another idea is to use fairings to close engines from upper stages. You don't need to stage the fairing, just leave it there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HB Stratos Posted January 20, 2019 Share Posted January 20, 2019 (edited) or just go in the craftfile and delete all unnecessary sections Edited January 20, 2019 by HB Stratos Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torn4dO Posted January 20, 2019 Share Posted January 20, 2019 2 hours ago, Shadow dream said: You can end fairings on other parts. As an example you can put a MK2 pod on top, some octagonal struts as extension (and clamp small satelites to it) and at the end the fairing plate. Then when building the fairing, you don't end it in a cone, but on the Mk2 pod. Another idea is to use fairings to close engines from upper stages. You don't need to stage the fairing, just leave it there. Yeah i know that's possible, I just didn't realise that servo used that technique since the fairing passed the engine. 1 hour ago, HB Stratos said: or just go in the craftfile and delete all unnecessary sections I'll look into that, any idea if the game would see the fairing as open? I ask because I would like to go eva inside a fairing, I want to build a base using them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qzgy Posted January 20, 2019 Share Posted January 20, 2019 5 hours ago, Torn4dO said: I'll look into that, any idea if the game would see the fairing as open? I ask because I would like to go eva inside a fairing, I want to build a base using them. Open as in nothing at the end? Yup, that would work. I think stratzenblitz abused it for one of his videos Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triop Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 (edited) @FleshJeb Yep, Triop has been drinking again. Edited January 21, 2019 by Triop Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triop Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 (edited) Oewwww......Upgrades, less steel ! Edited January 21, 2019 by Triop Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triop Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 (edited) How about this Jeb, feel safe now ? Edited January 21, 2019 by Triop Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triop Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 Latest update: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triop Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 (edited) UPDATE: Lowered the back, it sticks to the ground without losing acceleration, but it still can be improved. Edited January 21, 2019 by Triop Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big boy Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 (edited) I am making some good progress on my >400 part stock (no Making History) Saturn V replica recently. I hope that soon I will be able to release it publicly The Lunar Module descent stage now has more accurate legs, which use a very reliable stock hinge design to work as reliably as possible, but this brings the Lunar Module's part count to over 200, so perhaps I will make an alternative version with stock landing legs. https://i.imgur.com/G1uJ5fz.mp4 This very long term project of mine has been inspired by the best stock Saturn V/Apollo replicas I've seen in this community ( @Majorjim!, @Bubbadevlin, and @EpicSpaceTroll139's, to name a few). Any criticism of the craft from the gif I posted would be sincerely appreciated. Thank you, Big Boy Edited January 21, 2019 by big boy fixing a link Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qzgy Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 49 minutes ago, big boy said: Any criticism of the craft from the gif I posted would be sincerely appreciated. Well.... I'd love to see but I am seeing a 404 error on the gif.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big boy Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 (edited) 10 minutes ago, qzgy said: Well.... I'd love to see but I am seeing a 404 error on the gif.... Thank you for letting me know! I am new here, but believe I have fixed it now Edited January 21, 2019 by big boy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon144 Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 (edited) 14 hours ago, Triop said: Latest update: This might sound evil, but I want to see this thrown off a cliff to see if he's surely safe? Edited January 21, 2019 by Jon144 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sturmhauke Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 I'm working on a space station for the STS thread. This is launch 2/4, where I attach the hab and docking modules to the core. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McFlyever Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 Little Preview to my first fully recoverable Falcon 9.... I have to fix a few small bugs but the important thing - landing the Mainstage - is working really well right now! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantomic Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 for those who want to play ace combat 7 but can't Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big boy Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 3 hours ago, McFlyever said: Little Preview to my first fully recoverable Falcon 9.... I have to fix a few small bugs but the important thing - landing the Mainstage - is working really well right now! Very nice work! I do like the homage to the engine layout of the older Falcon 9s and those landing legs are so cool. I do believe, however, that because of the need for abort procedures, dragon capsules do not use external fairings like satellites. Do let me know if I am wrong about this Once again, fantastic craft you've got here.based on my own experience with them, I cannot imagine how hard it must have been to get those legs working. -Big Boy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HB Stratos Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 (edited) Spoiler On 1/22/2019 at 5:58 PM, McFlyever said: Little Preview to my first fully recoverable Falcon 9.... I have to fix a few small bugs but the important thing - landing the Mainstage - is working really well right now! First of all, that thing looks realy good but: 1. only block 1 had no octoweba t the bottom, block 4 was the first one to make a succesful landing 2. As BigBoy said, there is no fairing around the dragon capsule 3. the Dragon V2 trunk seems a bit too long fow what is should be hoping for some more landing videos soon... -HB Stratos Edited January 23, 2019 by HB Stratos Remember, always put quotes with Pics/Videos in a spoiler to keep the page clean Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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