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[1.12.X] Tantares - Stockalike Soyuz and MIR [16.1][28.05.2024][Mars Expedition WIP]


Beale

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6 hours ago, Beale said:

Crewed at the moment.

 

qKkTEJW.jpeg

uUyA1iE.jpeg

 

God, this is what Tantares NEEDS, I can't describe how much I love thermal blankets. On everything!!! I'm curious as to why the engineers designed the LK crewed portion round, considering it was unpressurised.

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My 2 cents about new Proton:

1) It's GORGEOUS.

2) First stage feels a bit anemic.  TWR is okay, but burning time isn't. IIRC, the real one burns for about 120 seconds; Tantares one burns for 84.1 seconds (6-engined Type B with 6 RD-253). This places the rest of the stack rather low and forces you to use so-called "100-0.3" PVG MJ profile (normally reserved for cases like BDB Saturn IB). Note that this is valid for the latest KSRSS, with Mir Core Module launched to 120km circular, 51deg inclined orbit from Baikonur; other launch sites, smaller systems and lighter loads may fare better.

2nd and 3rd stages behave quite well. The overall balance is quite good, nothing like overpowered nature of the old Proton.

4) Bug report time:

- There is a gap between RD-0212's thermal blanket and its mount:

oe6o6sB.png

- There is a small gap between Blok-D interstage top 2.5m variant and 2.5m Proton SAF fairing (1.8 variants are okay):

FycOoxb.png

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Posted (edited)
14 hours ago, Entr8899 said:

God, this is what Tantares NEEDS, I can't describe how much I love thermal blankets. On everything!!! I'm curious as to why the engineers designed the LK crewed portion round, considering it was unpressurised.

The LK was definitely pressurised hahaha, there might be some confusion as it had no internal airlock - and no internal passage to the LOK, so depressurisation cycles would have to happen to get in and out of it.

2 hours ago, biohazard15 said:

My 2 cents about new Proton:

1) It's GORGEOUS.

2) First stage feels a bit anemic.  TWR is okay, but burning time isn't. IIRC, the real one burns for about 120 seconds; Tantares one burns for 84.1 seconds (6-engined Type B with 6 RD-253). This places the rest of the stack rather low and forces you to use so-called "100-0.3" PVG MJ profile (normally reserved for cases like BDB Saturn IB). Note that this is valid for the latest KSRSS, with Mir Core Module launched to 120km circular, 51deg inclined orbit from Baikonur; other launch sites, smaller systems and lighter loads may fare better.

2nd and 3rd stages behave quite well. The overall balance is quite good, nothing like overpowered nature of the old Proton.

4) Bug report time:

- There is a gap between RD-0212's thermal blanket and its mount:

oe6o6sB.png

- There is a small gap between Blok-D interstage top 2.5m variant and 2.5m Proton SAF fairing (1.8 variants are okay):

FycOoxb.png

Thanks for the good feedback, stage 1 is of particular interest. ISP values are from real life, so not sure how to improve it much - more fuel will increase the burn time, but not help the TWR, and the opposite is true for a higher TWR. Any ideas? Typically the engines are balanced around 25% of irl thrust.

Unfortunately for the blanket there's not much I can do without making the part overly specialised. IRL it's fixed to the 3rd stage mount with a pretty loose and messy curtain. You can offset it so it's flush and it looks okay I think.

pSx6yT3.png

For the gap - I'm confused by that, why wouldn't there be a gap? Same as if you put two 2.5m tanks sandwiching a 1.25m tank? Perhaps it looks a little strange as the Blok-D lip is really thin. The 2.5m switches are really just there so you can use these parts in a regular stack.

Edited by Beale
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16 minutes ago, Beale said:

You can offset it so it's flush and it looks okay I think

yea that's what I've done and it looks good

17 minutes ago, Beale said:

Any ideas?

Is dry mass a problem? From what I remember Proton hasn't flown crazily bad for me, but the first stage does burn a bit shorter than what you would expect, however I'm guessing that's because of it's large 2nd stage, which has enough thrust and acts like a 2nd booster stage to loft the 3rd stage

Anyways, detailed my TKS craft a bit more, really happy how it's come out!

qWqp7bJ.png

qyRm83l.png

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27 minutes ago, AmateurAstronaut1969 said:

yea that's what I've done and it looks good

Is dry mass a problem? From what I remember Proton hasn't flown crazily bad for me, but the first stage does burn a bit shorter than what you would expect, however I'm guessing that's because of it's large 2nd stage, which has enough thrust and acts like a 2nd booster stage to loft the 3rd stage

Anyways, detailed my TKS craft a bit more, really happy how it's come out!

qWqp7bJ.png

qyRm83l.png

I DEMAND A CRAFT FILE NOW!!!

Sorry, my inner KSP demon crawled out, I'll got get it. Nice stuff BTW...

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Beale said:

Thanks for the good feedback, stage 1 is of particular interest. ISP values are from real life, so not sure how to improve it much - more fuel will increase the burn time, but not help the TWR, and the opposite is true for a higher TWR. Any ideas? Typically the engines are balanced around 25% of irl thrust.

 

That is probably due to Proton in real life using Hypergolic fuels, and they have different Molar Mass when compared to in game fuels.

I did my own custom config using Aerozine50 and NTO (not exactly true to the real life counterpart but still) and it flies pretty well.

Unless Tantares adds support for Hypergolic fuels, i don't think there's much to be done. I'd say it's pretty fine the way it is.

Edited by Davi SDF
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4 minutes ago, Davi SDF said:

I did my own custom config using Aerozine50 and NTO (not exactly true to the real life counterpart but still) and it flies pretty well.

UDMH is in the Community Resource Pack.

RESOURCE_DEFINITION
{
    name = UDMH
	displayName = #LOC_CRP_UDMH_DisplayName
    density = 0.000791
    unitCost = 0.791
    hsp = 2729.6 // specific heat capacity (kJ/tonne-K as units) // http://webbook.nist.gov/cgi/cbook.cgi?ID=C10544726&Type=JANAFL&Plot=on#JANAFL
    flowMode = STACK_PRIORITY_SEARCH
    transfer = PUMP
    isTweakable = True
    isVisible = true
    ksparpicon = TriggerTech/KSPAlternateResourcePanel/Icons/UDMH
}

I would be interested in a TantaresLV Extras pack with configs like this though!

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Beale said:

Thanks for the good feedback, stage 1 is of particular interest. ISP values are from real life, so not sure how to improve it much - more fuel will increase the burn time, but not help the TWR, and the opposite is true for a higher TWR. Any ideas? Typically the engines are balanced around 25% of irl thrust.

The goal here is to make 1st stage to burn longer while keeping the current TWR - IRL's 120(?) seconds would be ideal. Increase fuel load and RD-253s thrust and maybe Isp, maybe decrease empty mass. Maybe tweak upper stages and engines to make them a bit lighter.

IIRC there was a similar balancing problem with some of the engines in BDB (RL-10, IIRC), so BDB crew did some custom configs for these engines. Maybe asking them would give you some ideas?

Edited by biohazard15
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7 hours ago, Beale said:

Unfortunately for the blanket there's not much I can do without making the part overly specialised. IRL it's fixed to the 3rd stage mount with a pretty loose and messy curtain. You can offset it so it's flush and it looks okay I think.

pSx6yT3.png

Would it be possible to make a part switch that moves the engine's attach node down slightly so that the blanket is flush with the mount?

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4 hours ago, biohazard15 said:

The goal here is to make 1st stage to burn longer while keeping the current TWR - IRL's 120(?) seconds would be ideal. Increase fuel load and RD-253s thrust and maybe Isp, maybe decrease empty mass. Maybe tweak upper stages and engines to make them a bit lighter.

IIRC there was a similar balancing problem with some of the engines in BDB (RL-10, IIRC), so BDB crew did some custom configs for these engines. Maybe asking them would give you some ideas?

My worry is the moment you start messing with engine thrust % - it kind of throws the balance of everything out of wack. Though I think I did some engines at 37.5% thrust,  where the TWR was low, I'll see how that feels on Proton :rep:

1 hour ago, Zyfle said:

Would it be possible to make a part switch that moves the engine's attach node down slightly so that the blanket is flush with the mount?

mmmm not too hot on that - the way it is now is intended as a .9375m mount, think the ability to just offset it feels fine?

 

 

DRMhOOj.png

MiNbWmj.png

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Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, Beale said:

My worry is the moment you start messing with engine thrust % - it kind of throws the balance of everything out of wack. Though I think I did some engines at 37.5% thrust,  where the TWR was low, I'll see how that feels on Proton :rep:

mmmm not too hot on that - the way it is now is intended as a .9375m mount, think the ability to just offset it feels fine?

 

 

DRMhOOj.png

MiNbWmj.png

Maaaaaan I love how those two parts sit together with the bolts and stuff

What's your plan for the engines if you don't mind me asking? It would be real nice to have the real life layout with the primary engine and verniers used, along with the 2 backup engines! I wouldn't blame you for not doing it, because 2/3 engines may be a bit too much work, but I won't lie it would be amazing to have

NmJjuut.jpeg

Edited by AmateurAstronaut1969
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22 minutes ago, AmateurAstronaut1969 said:

Maaaaaan I love how those two parts sit together with the bolts and stuff

What's your plan for the engines if you don't mind me asking? It would be real nice to have the real life layout with the primary engine and verniers used, along with the 2 backup engines! I wouldn't blame you for not doing it, because 2/3 engines may be a bit too much work, but I won't lie it would be amazing to have

NmJjuut.jpeg

100%, the missed opportunity of not doing this engine last time was my whole motivation for redoing LK :P

 

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29 minutes ago, Beale said:

mmmm not too hot on that - the way it is now is intended as a .9375m mount, think the ability to just offset it feels fine?

fair 'nuff

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14 minutes ago, Beale said:

100%, the missed opportunity of not doing this engine last time was my whole motivation for redoing LK :P

 

Finally we won't have to use RN's LK 

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Posted (edited)

Сделайте уже интерьер! Если не хотите, подскажите как это сделать, я умею работать в фотошопе и в Paint.net, единственная причина, по которой я не использую этот мод, это то, что у меня нет интерьера.

Edited by SerbskaNeko
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do the interior already! If you don’t want to, tell me how to do it, I know how to work in Photoshop and paint.net, the only reason I don’t use this mod is because I don’t have an interior.

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, SerbskaNeko said:

do the interior already! If you don’t want to, tell me how to do it, I know how to work in Photoshop and paint.net, the only reason I don’t use this mod is because I don’t have an interior.

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18 hours ago, AdrianDogmeat said:

UR-700A

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Incredible stuff.

 

 

 

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Edited by Beale
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