[1.12.5] Bluedog Design Bureau - Stockalike Saturn, Apollo, and more! (v1.13.0 "Забытый" 13/Aug/2023)

[Zorg]

 

[Entr8899]

Seeing pictures of the Clementine probe in development, is there any possibility the gold foil texture could be applied to other parts as a texture switch, I think it could make some interesting possibilities?

[CobaltWolf]

On 8/10/2021 at 7:06 PM, Entr8899 said:

Is there a possibility for early Landsat parts, to supplement the Nimbus parts already in the mod?

I believe I left the Nimbus parts where they were because we ran out of texture space on those sheets.

 

2 hours ago, Entr8899 said:

Seeing pictures of the Clementine probe in development, is there any possibility the gold foil texture could be applied to other parts as a texture switch, I think it could make some interesting possibilities?

Maybe some day

[Beccab]

Saturn V MLV development with 4 SRB and a nulcear third stage

[Entr8899]

I think there is something wrong with the SR-119 , it doesn't appear to have an autoshroud, nor is there a recessed node for using it with an interstage. All the other Peacekeeper and Athena SRBs have shrouds.

[Pappystein]

2 hours ago, Beccab said:

Saturn V MLV development with 4 SRB and a nulcear third stage

Nice Rocket.  A few questions because the S-VN upper stage you have made seems interesting.  

1) is that a BDB tank (asking for boil-off reasons)

2) if Boil-off was involved on it... how well did the rocket preserve it's LH2?

3) recognize a tweak-scaled LDC interstage, but what did you end up using for your S-VN engine mount.  Looks like the S-IVB engine plate but not quite perfect?  (the ring around the engine plate is throwing me)

 

  I am still hoping that someday we will get a good BDB grade 156" SRM... But in the interim, the 3 segment RSRB for any Space Shuttle mod is the same as the 156" SRM for Saturn MLV (yes the Space Shuttle SRB is a direct-evolution of the Thiokol proposal for the  "156" SRM"  for Saturn MLV!)   While the 156" SRM for MLV would have actually been 4 segments, it was using the older fuel formulation which Is why I suggest 3 segment versions not 4.

 

The Actual Thiokol 156" SRM would have had a cuffed skirt more like the existing lateral AJ-260 in BDB, than the flared skirt on either the Shuttle SRB or the inline AJ-260.     Oh and in the one detailed drawing I have seen of the MLV with the 156" SRMs (it isn't all THAT detailed) a cuff would have surrounded the top of the 1st segment right below the nose cone as well.   there may or may not have been a strong back in-between the two cuffs on the Saturn side.  

Had Lockheed won the 156" contract, the motor would have been largely the same as the Thiokol.   It is only when you get to United Aircraft (USA) Chemical Systems Division's CTD-156x that any significant change occurs... That is because UA/CSD had not developed a means of physical thrust vectoring and was still relying on the less reliable (due to diameter) liquid injection like the UA-120x SRMs!

 

On 8/11/2021 at 11:13 AM, Jcking said:

Upon further investigation, it turns out that the Atlas Surface Attach extra was messing with the Saturn S-1E/1F tank's ability to be radially attached, as both had the line: bdbTankType = bdbBalloon (unlike the other Saturn tanks). deleting the extra (or that line) resolves the issue.

The problem with removing that line from the tanks is you have now invalidated much of the performance gains those tanks are to get.

 

What is needed is an update to the Atlas Surface Attach extra file with and addon to the needs statement that excludes the two Saturn tanks.     

I am willing to look at the file and see what I can do to improve it.  

44 minutes ago, Entr8899 said:

I think there is something wrong with the SR-119 , it doesn't appear to have an autoshroud, nor is there a recessed node for using it with an interstage. All the other Peacekeeper and Athena SRBs have shrouds.

I haven't had an issue with this engine but I have not flown a MX based rocket in weeks.    So when I am testing what I hope will fix the concern that Jcking had above I will check this as well.     Before I get too far can you confirm it is only the SR-119 and not any other stages of Athena/MX/Peacekeaper/Minotaur III.....?

 

6 hours ago, Zorg said:

 

Um, wow?

BDB team.  You are making me run out of superlatives!    I am extremely happy with all this amazing work.  Each and EVERYONE of you deserve our Kudos!

[Beccab]

18 minutes ago, Pappystein said:

1) is that a BDB tank (asking for boil-off reasons)

2) if Boil-off was involved on it... how well did the rocket preserve it's LH2?

3) recognize a tweak-scaled LDC interstage, but what did you end up using for your S-VN engine mount.  Looks like the S-IVB engine plate but not quite perfect?  (the ring around the engine plate is throwing me)

1) and 2) Nope, it's from NFLV (plus decals for the stripes) and tweakscaled back to the S-II size, but because of this it still had boiloff. It didn't go *that* bad, it has a huge amount of fuel and getting out of Kerbin's SOI is quite quick. It had 6100+ deltaV with the Timberwind in the "afterburner" mode, so if you use the LH2 only mode and enter Kerbol orbit decently close to the injection window to wherever you want to go you shouldn't have too many problems probably. Obviously, using it to enter another planet's orbit is a no go.

3) As always, a kitbash I mixed the S-IVB plate with the NFLV upper stage engine plate set to have only a single engine in the middle, again tweakscaled and with decals for fitting colouration

[Pappystein]

5 minutes ago, Beccab said:

1) and 2) Nope, it's from NFLV (plus decals for the stripes) and tweakscaled back to the S-II size, but because of this it still had boiloff. It didn't go *that* bad, it has a huge amount of fuel and getting out of Kerbin's SOI is quite quick. It had 6100+ deltaV with the Timberwind in the "afterburner" mode, so if you use the LH2 only mode and enter Kerbol orbit decently close to the injection window to wherever you want to go you shouldn't have too many problems probably. Obviously, using it to enter another planet's orbit is a no go.

3) As always, a kitbash I mixed the S-IVB plate with the NFLV upper stage engine plate set to have only a single engine in the middle, again tweakscaled and with decals for fitting colouration

thanks for the answers and looks freakin awesome

 

[Pappystein]

2 hours ago, Entr8899 said:

I think there is something wrong with the SR-119 , it doesn't appear to have an autoshroud, nor is there a recessed node for using it with an interstage. All the other Peacekeeper and Athena SRBs have shrouds.

Since I just ran into a completely different part issue with the Minotaur liner...    Are you using any alternative Science Tree?

I have just tested the Minotaur/Peacekeeper and with the exception of both 1.5m fairings (SAF and regular) not showing up in game (even though they are in the logs.)   every part seems to be working OK.

I am testing the Tetrix Tree... and I hate to say it, because I know BDB is a lot of work.  But there are a lot of problems with that tree and BDB integration.  Specifically arround Rocket families and apparently anything and everything 1.5m

I have the tree fully unlocked and I can't see another reason why I can not get to any of the Delta/Thor Peacekeeper Athena etc 1.5m fairings   The last entry in the log for any of them is the moving them to a Tetrix tree node.

 

[CobaltWolf]

1 minute ago, Pappystein said:

Since I just ran into a completely different part issue with the Minotaur liner...    Are you using any alternative Science Tree?

Yeah, but I don't think that would affect the autoshrouds (which the Minotaur/Athena parts were some of the last to use)

[Pappystein]

On 8/11/2021 at 11:13 AM, Jcking said:

Upon further investigation, it turns out that the Atlas Surface Attach extra was messing with the Saturn S-1E/1F tank's ability to be radially attached, as both had the line: bdbTankType = bdbBalloon (unlike the other Saturn tanks). deleting the extra (or that line) resolves the issue.

I have submitted a pull request for the Atlas Surface Attach patch in the BDB_Extras folder.  It seems to solve the issue in my game.

 

Note, Only the original Bossart files seem to support surface attach even with this patch.  And then, only on the generic tanks (the bottom tank for example does not support surface attach above the LR101 engine mounts as before even with this patch.

 

I am not a model maker but I remember watching CobaltWolf make those original Bossart(atlas) tank parts and specifically, in the model, altering them so they could not support Surface attach above the LR101 plate.  I am guessing that both the Atlas SLV3X and CELV parts were done in that manor and would needs some work to fix if Surface attach was desirable on them.

I am including the base code line I altered, to lock it to the Atlas parts.   please note this is not the full patch but it is all you need to change until the patch is updated to be able to revert your Saturn tanks to bdbBalloon enabled tanks (for the improved mass that those tanks have)

Spoiler

@PART[bluedog*,Bluedog*]:HAS[bluedog_Atlas*,#bdbTankType[bdbBalloon]]:AFTER[Bluedog_DB]
{
    @attachRules = 1,0,1,1,0
}

 

[Entr8899]

1 hour ago, Pappystein said:

Since I just ran into a completely different part issue with the Minotaur liner...    Are you using any alternative Science Tree?

I have just tested the Minotaur/Peacekeeper and with the exception of both 1.5m fairings (SAF and regular) not showing up in game (even though they are in the logs.)   every part seems to be working OK.

I am testing the Tetrix Tree... and I hate to say it, because I know BDB is a lot of work.  But there are a lot of problems with that tree and BDB integration.  Specifically arround Rocket families and apparently anything and everything 1.5m

I have the tree fully unlocked and I can't see another reason why I can not get to any of the Delta/Thor Peacekeeper Athena etc 1.5m fairings   The last entry in the log for any of them is the moving them to a Tetrix tree node.

 

I don't use any tech tree stuff, I exclusively play creative. I haven't run into any issue with the regular or SAF fairings. I reinstalled both the latest version and the dev version of BDB and the SR119 is still missing its' autoshroud. I remember using the part a while ago and noticing this, but at the time I assumed that specific part didn't have an autoshroud.

[Pappystein]

48 minutes ago, Entr8899 said:

I don't use any tech tree stuff, I exclusively play creative. I haven't run into any issue with the regular or SAF fairings. I reinstalled both the latest version and the dev version of BDB and the SR119 is still missing its' autoshroud. I remember using the part a while ago and noticing this, but at the time I assumed that specific part didn't have an autoshroud.

I downloaded the master file last week, and I don't have that problem.   That points to another mod causing the issue.  

Suggest Deleting your BDB folder under GameData and then installing a fresh copy.   If you have already done this, then post the logs and such as described in my signature below

 

 

[Minmus Taster]

Out of curiosity, how large will the apollo update be relative to the last one?

Great work

[Pappystein]

1 hour ago, Minmus Taster said:

Out of curiosity, how large will the apollo update be relative to the last one?

Great work

If you are talking size... 1 trillion yotabytes

If you are talking part count, something similar to current?   For the Initial release atleast

 

And if it isn't obvious from the first answer, I am joking.   a Trillion Yotabytes is estimated to include all the data existing in the world at this moment, be it movie, picture music or on printed word.

 

[CobaltWolf]

2 hours ago, Minmus Taster said:

Out of curiosity, how large will the apollo update be relative to the last one?

Great work

Not sure, the old version was baking in the oven for wayyyy too long. Probably fewer parts, but open up a lot of possibilities for future development.

[davidy12]

1 hour ago, CobaltWolf said:

Not sure, the old version was baking in the oven for wayyyy too long. Probably fewer parts, but open up a lot of possibilities for future development.

God, it seems only yesterday when me and other stock-alike fanatics started pestering you to make a stock-alike Atlas I to compliment your Redstone and Atlas V addon, and then a Titan, and then a Saturn I since we were tired of FASA and KW Rocketry.

Edited August 13, 2021 by davidy12

[Entr8899]

What do you foresee yourself doing after the Saturn revamp and expansion updates are released? I seem to recall you mentioning before that you intend to revamp the Atlas parts?

[birdog357]

TACLS compatibility, do I talk to the BDB team or the TAC team? Trying to build a KH-10 MOL and it's about 39 days short on endurance...

[Pappystein]

41 minutes ago, birdog357 said:

TACLS compatibility, do I talk to the BDB team or the TAC team? Trying to build a KH-10 MOL and it's about 39 days short on endurance...

Those patches (and any "3rd party mod" patches are generally not done by BDB's crew.)

  I don't know about TAC-LS but that is just the rule of thumb I follow.

 

Are you attempting the minimal KH-10 or the full up with orbital resupply?

 

[Zorg]

3 hours ago, birdog357 said:

TACLS compatibility, do I talk to the BDB team or the TAC team? Trying to build a KH-10 MOL and it's about 39 days short on endurance...

I sometimes do TAC patches but generally pull requests are appreciated from the community for compatibility with most other mods. And yeah the patches for BDB are in the BDB files not with TAC.

Edited August 13, 2021 by Zorg

[TruthfulGnome]

hate to ask but any idea when the new Saturn V parts will on  gitlab?

[Fredde104]

Anyone else on KSP v.1.10.1 who has the issue of Gemini pod windows being blacked out in IVA? I've tried multiple versions of BDB and same every time. All other pods work fine.

So far, I've tried reinstalling BDB, reinstalling KSP, changing IVA model to an older (working) model, changing the capsule to an older (also working) model and .cfg, gone throught my .log and looking at it in Unity. I simply can neither solve or even find what the issue might be...

Edited August 13, 2021 by Fredde104

[SpaceFace545]

On 8/12/2021 at 1:27 AM, Zorg said:

Of course wetlab with the S4B engine mount is always an option.,

Curious, how would heat be managed on a wet workshop Skylab?

On 8/12/2021 at 1:27 AM, Zorg said:

Of course wetlab with the S4B engine mount is always an option.,

Curious, how would heat be managed on a wet workshop Skylab?

[KeaKaka]

Anyone else having issues with Minotaur/Peacekeepers flipping out of control just after first stage sep/second stage ignition? Looking for some assistance.