[1.12.5] Bluedog Design Bureau - Stockalike Saturn, Apollo, and more! (v1.13.0 "Забытый" 13/Aug/2023)

[pheenix99]

On 8/24/2016 at 0:12 PM, Jack Wolfe said:

It also works nicely as a LEM shelter.

Now why I never thought to slap a couple of solar panels on my LEM is beyond me.

[davidy12]

11 hours ago, CobaltWolf said:

Did a bit of noodling, just to see how the geometry would work out. Not an 'immediate priority' as it were. As in, don't expect it in this update. I'm going to model Skylab/Spacelab for a bit now.

 

 

???? What am I looking at?

Is it the S-ID?

[PickledTripod]

1 hour ago, awsumindyman said:

Close, the actual conversion factor is 0.64, or 64%. After that, yiu round the number up or down towards the closest stock compatible size.

 

Pretty sure it's actually 0.625. Or if you're converting from KSP to real life sizes it's 1.6.

KSP size	IRL size
0.625 m (Size 0)	1 m
1.25 m (Size 1)	2 m
1.5 m (size 1.2)	2.4 m
1.875 m (size 1.5)	3 m
2.5 m (Size 2)	4 m
3.75 m (Size 3)	6 m

Generally you want to avoid sizes that aren't multiples of 0.625m/1m IRL. For example Falcon 9 is 3.66m, so you'd round it to 4m, giving 2.5m in KSP. Saturn S-1 and S-IVB are 6.6m IRL, for BDB they were rounded down to 6m/3.75m to keep commonality with stock NASA parts. Which is what caused the issues with S-II and S-IC: IRL they were 10m wide which would have translated to a nice 6.25m, but S-IVB looked to small in comparison so it was resized to 5.625m, or 9m IRL. And now it causes a bunch of performance/balancing issues in a 3x rescale where you actually need something equivalent to the real-life rockets for the corresponding missions.

[CobaltWolf]

25 minutes ago, PickledTripod said:

Pretty sure it's actually 0.625. Or if you're converting from KSP to real life sizes it's 1.6.

KSP size	IRL size
0.625 m (Size 0)	1 m
1.25 m (Size 1)	2 m
1.5 m (size 1.2)	2.4 m
1.875 m (size 1.5)	3 m
2.5 m (Size 2)	4 m
3.75 m (Size 3)	6 m

Generally you want to avoid sizes that aren't multiples of 0.625m/1m IRL. For example Falcon 9 is 3.66m, so you'd round it to 4m, giving 2.5m in KSP. Saturn S-1 and S-IVB are 6.6m IRL, for BDB they were rounded down to 6m/3.75m to keep commonality with stock NASA parts. Which is what caused the issues with S-II and S-IC: IRL they were 10m wide which would have translated to a nice 6.25m, but S-IVB looked to small in comparison so it was resized to 5.625m, or 9m IRL. And now it causes a bunch of performance/balancing issues in a 3x rescale where you actually need something equivalent to the real-life rockets for the corresponding missions.

I generally just assume 1m IRL = 0.625m in KSP, since it makes it easier to size in my head. Considering that most stuff IRL is very close to round meters when reading reference material.

And I don't fully understand your last paragraph, so just to clarify: The S-IC and S-II are 5.625m, and the S-IVB are 3.75m. Part of why the S-IVB was kept that size is because the Saturn 1 first stage was already made in 3.75m, but there were a lot of other compelling reasons for making it that size. The Saturn balance is still somewhat in flux, especially because, well, we never were able to properly test in 3x scale once we locked in to developing for KSP 1.2. We fought hard to nerf the Saturn, especially the S-V, without breaking the entire system. Now we need to go the other way - which mostly means rolling back those changes. The parts are currently overmassed, and the tanks are currently a bit underfueled. Unfortunately, for that to be worked out I'd need to stop making new parts for a bit; poor @Jso can't keep up. Sounds like it's time to work on some other projects for a bit...

Of course, if anyone, say, wants to make a MM file with some balance adjustments we could review...

Speaking of KSP versions, do I need to do anything or can I just tell Spacedock that we still work?

[cxg2827]

6 minutes ago, CobaltWolf said:

Speaking of KSP versions, do I need to do anything or can I just tell Spacedock that we still work?

when VITAS updates SpaceDock to 1.2.1, you can just go to your mod page and just check a compatibility box, with an option to email the subscribers. No need to re-upload a new version.

 

Edited November 2, 2016 by cxg2827

[MaxxQ]

10 hours ago, CobaltWolf said:

Oh, myself, @Beale, and some other modders have big plans for UK rockets... and not just real ones either. Stay tuned

On a related note, jumping back and forth from Saturn to Apollo to Saturn to Vega to Centaur to Apollo to Scout to Saturn to Skylab has completely destroyed my sense of scale. I have no idea how big things are relative to each other now. Perhaps some graphics would help?

Not sure if you're aware of this, but I used this book for years for scale model rocketry building and competitions: https://www.amazon.com/Rockets-world-Peter-Alway/dp/0962787655

It has scale data on rockets from Goddard's first to the Shuttle (and beyond), including several variations of some launch vehicles, sounding rockets, etc.  Not very detailed as far as engine plumbing, or the internals of tank tops between stages, but for a general outside appearance, it's really good.  Marking variations are included as well when important.

Also, if you ever get around to building a Little Joe II, you might want this: http://georgesrockets.com/grp/scale/data/LJoeMain.htm

These blueprints helped me to make this: http://imgur.com/fQFqPI8&dFwThXr#1

 

 

Edited November 2, 2016 by MaxxQ

[CobaltWolf]

17 minutes ago, MaxxQ said:

Not sure if you're aware of this, but I used this book for years for scale model rocketry building and competitions: https://www.amazon.com/Rockets-world-Peter-Alway/dp/0962787655

It has scale data on rockets from Goddard's first to the Shuttle (and beyond), including several variations of some launch vehicles, sounding rockets, etc.  Not very detailed as far as engine plumbing, or the internals of tank tops between stages, but for a general outside appearance, it's really good.  Marking variations are included as well when important.

Also, if you ever get around to building a Little Joe II, you might want this: http://georgesrockets.com/grp/scale/data/LJoeMain.htm

These blueprints helped me to make this: http://imgur.com/fQFqPI8&dFwThXr#1

I saw a picture once of a solid launch vehicle that basically consisted of a Minuteman placed on top of a Little Joe II in place of the CM. Which I could find it again, it was neat looking.

[Rory Yammomoto]

12 hours ago, CobaltWolf said:

Did a bit of noodling, just to see how the geometry would work out. Not an 'immediate priority' as it were. As in, don't expect it in this update. I'm going to model Skylab/Spacelab for a bit now.

SORRY I'M LATE!

that looks pretty cool.

[tater]

That S-1D makes me want to make all kinds of 1 1/2 stage rockets.

[PickledTripod]

1 hour ago, CobaltWolf said:

I generally just assume 1m IRL = 0.625m in KSP, since it makes it easier to size in my head. Considering that most stuff IRL is very close to round meters when reading reference material.

And I don't fully understand your last paragraph, so just to clarify: The S-IC and S-II are 5.625m, and the S-IVB are 3.75m. Part of why the S-IVB was kept that size is because the Saturn 1 first stage was already made in 3.75m, but there were a lot of other compelling reasons for making it that size. The Saturn balance is still somewhat in flux, especially because, well, we never were able to properly test in 3x scale once we locked in to developing for KSP 1.2. We fought hard to nerf the Saturn, especially the S-V, without breaking the entire system. Now we need to go the other way - which mostly means rolling back those changes. The parts are currently overmassed, and the tanks are currently a bit underfueled. Unfortunately, for that to be worked out I'd need to stop making new parts for a bit; poor @Jso can't keep up. Sounds like it's time to work on some other projects for a bit...

Of course, if anyone, say, wants to make a MM file with some balance adjustments we could review...

Speaking of KSP versions, do I need to do anything or can I just tell Spacedock that we still work?

I'm not sure what you didn't understand since you're saying exactly what I said with different words... Saturn stage names maybe? According to Wikipedia S-I is the Saturn I first stage, S-IC the Saturn V first stage, S-V is actually Centaur.

Like I mentioned before I adapted the latest BDB to 1.1.2 so I could test it in a 3X rescale with FAR and KJR right away. I found that the most underpowered part is the S-IVB, it doesn't have enough fuel to put an unfueled Apollo CSM in LKO on top of Saturn I or perform a Trans-Münar Injection while full because of it. I changed the config to fill it with an amount of LF+O matching stock tanks of the same size, letting Nertea's CryoTanks patch handle LqdHydrogen and boom, nearly all issues were gone. It really shows how hard the guys in Nert's dev thread worked to balance the fuel switching for CryoEngines, it just works. Saturn V in particular is now absolutely perfect: you need to entirely expand S-IC and S-II to achieve orbit and finish circularizing on S-IVB, which then has enough fuel for TMI. More than enough in fact, but it's better than not enough. Saturn IB and IC were still a bit underpowered with the improved upper stage so I added a wee bit of fuel to both first stages as well. The F1 engine might need a slight thrust upgrade but it was at least good enough to get to orbit.

Full changes I've made:

S-IB tankage:

	LqdHydrogen	Oxidizer
Current	38625	2575
Proposed	61800	4120
LF+O config	4635 (LF, not LH2)	5665

S-I tankage:

	Liquid Fuel	Oxidizer
Current	6255	7645
Proposed	6480	7920

S-IE tankage: 8100 LF, 9900 OX

Edited November 2, 2016 by PickledTripod
Last chart keeps disappearing, dunno why

[legoclone09]

Everything looks awesome @CobaltWolf, especially Scout! Can't wait!

[CobaltWolf]

9 minutes ago, PickledTripod said:

I'm not sure what you didn't understand since you're saying exactly what I said with different words... Saturn stage names maybe? According to Wikipedia S-I is the Saturn I first stage, S-IC the Saturn V first stage, S-V is actually Centaur.

Like I mentioned before I adapted the latest BDB to 1.1.2 so I could test it in a 3X rescale with FAR and KJR right away. I found that the most underpowered part is the S-IVB, it doesn't have enough fuel to put an unfueled Apollo CSM in LKO on top of Saturn I or perform a Trans-Münar Injection while full because of it. I changed the config to fill it with an amount of LF+O matching stock tanks of the same size, letting Nertea's CryoTanks patch handle LqdHydrogen and boom, nearly all issues were gone. It really shows how hard the guys in Nert's dev thread worked to balance the fuel switching for CryoEngines, it just works. Saturn V in particular is now absolutely perfect: you need to entirely expand S-IC and S-II to achieve orbit and finish circularizing on S-IVB, which then has enough fuel for TMI. More than enough in fact, but it's better than not enough. Saturn IB and IC were still a bit underpowered with the improved upper stage so I added a wee bit of fuel to both first stages as well. The F1 engine might need a slight thrust upgrade but it was at least good enough to get to orbit.

Full changes I've made:

S-IB tankage:

	LqdHydrogen	Oxidizer
Current	38625	2575
Proposed	61800	4120
LF+O config	4635 (LF, not LH2)	5665

S-I tankage:

	Liquid Fuel	Oxidizer
Current	6255	7645
Proposed	6480	7920

S-IE tankage:

Alright yeah we were talking about the same thing (and I just realized how stupid it was to shorten 'Saturn V' to 'S-V' in my post...) I just wanted to make sure.

Saturn has already had a couple incremental balance passes that are up on the Github, namely the S-IVB. I checked it just now, it's a far less radical change. I guess just for reference, if you're trying to test balance changes, make sure you're using the latest master as a reference point and not the latest release; and make sure you're checking to see if anyone has committed more balance changes since you last downloaded. Anyways, going to tag @Jso to make sure he sees this. CryoEngines/CryoTanks assumes double the IRL density of lqdHydrogen; I'm not sure where we are on that front. Note that we no longer support LF+O configs for the cryogenic stages. Also, I don't think we support/test with FAR. Personally I'd rather not worry about balancing for those aerodynamics since that's a whole other can of worms.

Now that I think of it, another thing we're running into is that we removed all the fuel from the engine mount sections... we should probably add that back in.

[komodo]

I can confidently say (  ) that your earlier assertion about being overworked is the case, not the lack of effort or thought. The one about the fuel density, also is at hand.

i can also confidentiality say (  ) that for the larger 6.4x rescale, there is something pretty cool in the works. Depending how cool, it may happen in 3.2x, but I've only realigned myself to that scale as of... ~11 last night, so the testing has been... Well, nonexistent

this post has been sponsored by the tongue out emote committee.

[PickledTripod]

17 minutes ago, CobaltWolf said:

Alright yeah we were talking about the same thing (and I just realized how stupid it was to shorten 'Saturn V' to 'S-V' in my post...) I just wanted to make sure.

Saturn has already had a couple incremental balance passes that are up on the Github, namely the S-IVB. I checked it just now, it's a far less radical change. I guess just for reference, if you're trying to test balance changes, make sure you're using the latest master as a reference point and not the latest release; and make sure you're checking to see if anyone has committed more balance changes since you last downloaded. Anyways, going to tag @Jso to make sure he sees this. CryoEngines/CryoTanks assumes double the IRL density of lqdHydrogen; I'm not sure where we are on that front. Note that we no longer support LF+O configs for the cryogenic stages. Also, I don't think we support/test with FAR. Personally I'd rather not worry about balancing for those aerodynamics since that's a whole other can of worms.

Now that I think of it, another thing we're running into is that we removed all the fuel from the engine mount sections... we should probably add that back in.

Yeah I haven't really played with 1.2 and the newer github releases because the UI flickering bug annoyed me way too much, but now that 1.2.1 is out I'll give it a serious try. I suppose that the fuel capacity changes are less radical because you also made the parts lighter, result should be about the same if not more realistic.

CryoTanks fuel configs are indeed very dense, but with the terrible mass fractions of KSP it's pretty much the only way to make it work as intended. I assumed that the fuel is super-chilled like SpaceX does, if your tanks don't hold as much fuel it would only make sense since it's older tech.

And FAR works perfectly with BDB, it doesn't need to be supported by other mods for the most parts. It doesn't change atmospheric density anymore, and while it uses a different method to calculate drag in the end it's usually the same as stock aero for a rocket (unless you're doing something that would be buggy in stock, in that case it just fixes it.) The only parts that need actual support for FAR are wings and control surfaces, and even then they usually work okay without changes.

[ChrisTateman]

Hello!,

My name is Chris Tateman and I am an aerospace teacher, I discovered this Content when I bought Kerbal Space to use in the classroom with my highschool students!

In my class we are learning the Reusability of rocket designs and Love whats included in this Pack!

I just have one question.. I don't know how hard it is to make these sort of things, But what are the possibility's of adding something related to this?

Since I am teaching my students about reusability I think it could be neat to have something like this as a learning tool. And maybe someone else could get some use out of it. If it is possible for the creator of this Addon to make this, I would love to get in contact with them!!

Me and my students love this game and this Addon, And I hope to use it for a while to teach my Students the fundamentals of Space Flight!!

Thank you,

Chris Tateman

[DiscoSlelge]

MANUAL "Eagle Edition" update !

I'm happy to announce the new version of the manual sticking with the Eagle update of BDB ! What's new ?

• A new construction of the table of contents with a better distribution of sections
• Of course all the blueprint + descriptions of Saturn family and Apollo
• Some new eye candy stuff
• A weightless manual (impacting the rendering of images sorry)

I'm very thanksful to @CobaltWolf without him, the manual would not look like that, and a big thanks to you, the community ! We passed the line of 2.400 views on the Vaquero edition of the manual which is a bit more than the previous version ! Hope you will like this new version

 

Edited November 2, 2016 by DiscoSlelge

[Cdw2468]

38 minutes ago, ChrisTateman said:

Hello!,

My name is Chris Tateman and I am an aerospace teacher, I discovered this Content when I bought Kerbal Space to use in the classroom with my highschool students!

In my class we are learning the Reusability of rocket designs and Love whats included in this Pack!

I just have one question.. I don't know how hard it is to make these sort of things, But what are the possibility's of adding something related to this?

~snip~

Since I am teaching my students about reusability I think it could be neat to have something like this as a learning tool. And maybe someone else could get some use out of it. If it is possible for the creator of this Addon to make this, I would love to get in contact with them!!

Me and my students love this game and this Addon, And I hope to use it for a while to teach my Students the fundamentals of Space Flight!!

Thank you,

Chris Tateman

Firstly, I think it's great that you're implementing KSP into lessons, more places need to do this! Secondly, I'm not a dev, so take this with a grain of salt. Cobalt doesn't usually add in newer rockets, such as the New Shepard (what is pictured) I wouldn't be surprised if there's a mod adding the parts for this in somewhere on the forums. And if not, you can always make it yourself! KSP is all about creativity, you could make one with some stock parts and parts from this mod. 

[Nnimrod]

2 hours ago, MaxxQ said:

Not sure if you're aware of this, but I used this book for years for scale model rocketry building and competitions: https://www.amazon.com/Rockets-world-Peter-Alway/dp/0962787655

It has scale data on rockets from Goddard's first to the Shuttle (and beyond), including several variations of some launch vehicles, sounding rockets, etc.  Not very detailed as far as engine plumbing, or the internals of tank tops between stages, but for a general outside appearance, it's really good.  Marking variations are included as well when important.

Also, if you ever get around to building a Little Joe II, you might want this: http://georgesrockets.com/grp/scale/data/LJoeMain.htm

These blueprints helped me to make this: http://imgur.com/fQFqPI8&dFwThXr#1

 

 

Thanks for this, archived

45 minutes ago, ChrisTateman said:

Hello!,

My name is Chris Tateman and I am an aerospace teacher, I discovered this Content when I bought Kerbal Space to use in the classroom with my highschool students!

In my class we are learning the Reusability of rocket designs and Love whats included in this Pack!

I just have one question.. I don't know how hard it is to make these sort of things, But what are the possibility's of adding something related to this?

Since I am teaching my students about reusability I think it could be neat to have something like this as a learning tool. And maybe someone else could get some use out of it. If it is possible for the creator of this Addon to make this, I would love to get in contact with them!!

Me and my students love this game and this Addon, And I hope to use it for a while to teach my Students the fundamentals of Space Flight!!

Thank you,

Chris Tateman

Make sure to teach them that Elon Musk, not Mr. Amazon money, is our lord and savior. There are a couple mods that add Falcon 9 rockets, Dragons, and even the new ITS and it's launch vehicle in.

[CobaltWolf]

54 minutes ago, ChrisTateman said:

Hello!,

My name is Chris Tateman and I am an aerospace teacher, I discovered this Content when I bought Kerbal Space to use in the classroom with my highschool students!

In my class we are learning the Reusability of rocket designs and Love whats included in this Pack!

I just have one question.. I don't know how hard it is to make these sort of things, But what are the possibility's of adding something related to this?

~snip~

Since I am teaching my students about reusability I think it could be neat to have something like this as a learning tool. And maybe someone else could get some use out of it. If it is possible for the creator of this Addon to make this, I would love to get in contact with them!!

Me and my students love this game and this Addon, And I hope to use it for a while to teach my Students the fundamentals of Space Flight!!

Thank you,

Chris Tateman

Chris,

Hi! It's great to hear that you are using KSP to teach your students, I believe I know one of them Reusability type parts are a bit out of the scope of this mod, since we focus on older/more primitive technology. However, I do have some suggestions for mods that would make it possible. Please note that, since the game only recently updated, they have not all been properly updated to the most recent version. Additionally, I am a little iffy on the prospect of using mods in a classroom; having given some lectures myself I'm all too familiar with technology's tendency to act cranky at the absolute worse possible time. Anyways,

Kerbal Reusability Expansion:

Adds parts based on the work of SpaceX and Blue Origin. Landing legs, grid fins, SuperDracos... This one is updated and should be working well.

Flight Manager for Reusable Stages

(I cannot get this to link properly, scroll up to aikixd's post on October 25th for the most recent working version)
The problem with reusable parts and stages in KSP is that you can only control one at a time. I can't say I've ever used it (I don't really have much time to play these days) but my understanding is that it lets you take a snapshot at stage separation, finish flying the ascent for the payload, then go back to the snapshot and control the booster for landing, after which the two 'timelines' are re-merged. It hasn't been properly updated by the original author but a community member appears to be maintaining it.

Trajectories

Not much to say here, lets you see better predictions of what your trajectory will be since the stock ones don't account for the change in trajectory that aerodynamic drag will have on your ship.

 

If anyone else has more good/essential mods for this kind of stuff, please feel free to chime in. Chris, best of luck with your class! Please let me know if you have any questions or anything I can help with. My content roadmap is more than a bit full at the moment, but if you have questions on any of the existing parts in the pack (how they go together etc) I'd be more than happy to answer them.

Cheers,
Matt

EDIT:

5 minutes ago, Nnimrod said:

Make sure to teach them that Elon Musk, not Mr. Amazon money, is our lord and savior. There are a couple mods that add Falcon 9 rockets, Dragons, and even the new ITS and it's launch vehicle in.

Sure, we'll just worship Mr. Paypal money instead They're both making good progress on their own projects, and both are doing significant work to advance the technology of spaceflight, reusability in particular. You should just be happy that there is some significant competition in spaceflight driving things forward. A decade or two ago that wasn't the case.

Edited November 2, 2016 by CobaltWolf

[minepagan]

7 minutes ago, CobaltWolf said:

Chris,

Hi! It's great to hear that you are using KSP to teach your students, I believe I know one of them Reusability type parts are a bit out of the scope of this mod, since we focus on older/more primitive technology. However, I do have some suggestions for mods that would make it possible. Please note that, since the game only recently updated, they have not all been properly updated to the most recent version. Additionally, I am a little iffy on the prospect of using mods in a classroom; having given some lectures myself I'm all too familiar with technology's tendency to act cranky at the absolute worse possible time. Anyways,

Kerbal Reusability Expansion:

Adds parts based on the work of SpaceX and Blue Origin. Landing legs, grid fins, SuperDracos... This one is updated and should be working well.

Flight Manager for Reusable Stages

(I cannot get this to link properly, scroll up to aikixd's post on October 25th for the most recent working version)
The problem with reusable parts and stages in KSP is that you can only control one at a time. I can't say I've ever used it (I don't really have much time to play these days) but my understanding is that it lets you take a snapshot at stage separation, finish flying the ascent for the payload, then go back to the snapshot and control the booster for landing, after which the two 'timelines' are re-merged. It hasn't been properly updated by the original author but a community member appears to be maintaining it.

Trajectories

Not much to say here, lets you see better predictions of what your trajectory will be since the stock ones don't account for the change in trajectory that aerodynamic drag will have on your ship.

 

If anyone else has more good/essential mods for this kind of stuff, please feel free to chime in. Chris, best of luck with your class! Please let me know if you have any questions or anything I can help with. My content roadmap is more than a bit full at the moment, but if you have questions on any of the existing parts in the pack (how they go together etc) I'd be more than happy to answer them.

Cheers,
Matt

EDIT:

Sure, we'll just worship Mr. Paypal money instead They're both making good progress on their own projects, and both are doing significant work to advance the technology of spaceflight, reusability in particular. You should just be happy that there is some significant competition in spaceflight driving things forward. A decade or two ago that wasn't the case.

Don't forget Tundra Exploration, and SpaceY! Ill add links later...probabaly....

[CobaltWolf]

Just now, minepagan said:

Don't forget Tundra Exploration, and SpaceY! Ill add links later...probabaly....

Yeah but I wasn't concerned with adding a bunch of random parts. I recommended KRE since those are just the parts that are needed to make something approaching a functional SpaceX style flight profile...

[komodo]

Chiming in here: it doesn't get enough praise at all, but Throttle Controlled Avionics would be fantastic for doing Falcon 9 style fly backs. It has gotten *really* advanced since the last time I looked at it, such that most people don't realize it has a very sophisticated autopilot nowadays, doing somethings even mechjeb can't.

In particular, if you wheel a craft up onto the launchpad (or a probe on a clamp... Hmm!), and tell it "go land next to/on top of that"... The magic begins  

Could someone not on a phone toss up a link? 

[Nnimrod]

2 minutes ago, komodo said:

Chiming in here: it doesn't get enough praise at all, but Throttle Controlled Avionics would be fantastic for doing Falcon 9 style fly backs. It has gotten *really* advanced since the last time I looked at it, such that most people don't realize it has a very sophisticated autopilot nowadays, doing somethings even mechjeb can't.

In particular, if you wheel a craft up onto the launchpad (or a probe on a clamp... Hmm!), and tell it "go land next to/on top of that"... The magic begins  

Could someone not on a phone toss up a link? 

I've never used it but here it is.

[Jso]

6 hours ago, PickledTripod said:

Like I mentioned before I adapted the latest BDB to 1.1.2 so I could test it in a 3X rescale with FAR and KJR right away. I found that the most underpowered part is the S-IVB, it doesn't have enough fuel to put an unfueled Apollo CSM in LKO on top of Saturn I or perform a Trans-Münar Injection while full because of it. I changed the config to fill it with an amount of LF+O matching stock tanks of the same size, letting Nertea's CryoTanks patch handle LqdHydrogen and boom, nearly all issues were gone. It really shows how hard the guys in Nert's dev thread worked to balance the fuel switching for CryoEngines, it just works. Saturn V in particular is now absolutely perfect: you need to entirely expand S-IC and S-II to achieve orbit and finish circularizing on S-IVB, which then has enough fuel for TMI. More than enough in fact, but it's better than not enough. Saturn IB and IC were still a bit underpowered with the improved upper stage so I added a wee bit of fuel to both first stages as well. The F1 engine might need a slight thrust upgrade but it was at least good enough to get to orbit.

Full changes I've made:

You should probably use the latest Github if you want to help out with tuning. You're correct the S-IVB is underperforming. That's been addressed with a fuel increase, though not to double density proportions. Around here the most often overlooked variable in the rocket equation is dry mass, and KSP parts are very heavy so we have a lot to work with. With some mass reductions, notably to the command pods and accessories since they are very very heavy, getting things flying in 3x is easy. 6.4x requires more severe mass reductions, and some rockets suffer from just plain not enough fuel due to either pigeon holing into KSP sizes or in Saturn's case intentional down sizing. That's something we can deal with on a case by case basis. Very soon there will be an MM patch ready for testing. It is heavily based on SMURFF and will detect the rescale you're using and make appropriate adjustments. At least that the plan. (pinging @komodo - time to wake up)

[Spike88]

5 hours ago, DiscoSlelge said:

MANUAL "Eagle Edition" update !

~snip~

I'm happy to announce the new version of the manual sticking with the Eagle update of BDB ! What's new ?

• A new construction of the table of contents with a better distribution of sections
• Of course all the blueprint + descriptions of Saturn family and Apollo
• Some new eye candy stuff
• A weightless manual (impacting the rendering of images sorry)

I'm very thanksful to @CobaltWolf without him, the manual would not look like that, and a big thanks to you, the community ! We passed the line of 2.400 views on the Vaquero edition of the manual which is a bit more than the previous version ! Hope you will like this new version

~snip~

 

Just a heads up, but the Viklun parts are listed as Brun in the manual, but Viklun in the game.