A "KSP Loading..." Preview: The Mun Launch Site (KSP Enhanced Edition)

[dlrk]

1 hour ago, T1mo98 said:

Than you must be fuming all the time while playing because of the existence of the Cheat Menu...

Uh, no. You have to go out of your way to access the cheat menu.

[Lisias]

9 hours ago, klesh said:

By Squad you must mean Take Two Interactive. Squad is like a contracted developer now having sold the rights to everything Kerbal.

No. I mean Squad, TTI is not a Charity, Squad will not get paid if the game flops.

[klgraham1013]

2 hours ago, Poodmund said:

In before unconfirmed "Serenity" DLC is all about planet-side base building and will actually give the PC players the ability to create launch sites on the Mun's surface.  

I think you might be right.

35 minutes ago, Lisias said:

No. I mean Squad, TTI is not a Charity, Squad will not get paid if the game flops.

The game has already sold bucket loads.  It can't really flop at this point.

That being said, I would like them to finish the game before the well runs dry.

[Lisias]

3 minutes ago, klgraham1013 said:

The game has already sold bucket loads.  It can't really flop at this point.

That ship has sailed. The money KSP made in the past doesn't pays salaries in the future. They need to sell games today to get paid tomorrow.

People stop buying today, the game flops no matter how many copies it was sold in the past.

[klesh]

47 minutes ago, klgraham1013 said:

I think you might be right.

Lets hope they learned their lesson. 

 

[Dunnfore]

2 hours ago, Jebediah Kerman Jr. said:

I play on console, and yeah, a Mun launchsite isn't the kind of thing I want. It just seems too cheaty. What I want is better performance, the DLC, and Kerbal parachutes. Heck, even just better performance and bug fixes. You hear me developers? I emphatically do not want a Mun launchsite. I want the bugs and performance issues fixed so I can actually play this game! 

It is nigh impossible to run a 200 part craft! As soon as I get really into a base/station, It lags at 5 fps! I cannot use a command seat vessel without it exploding when the Kerbal leaves the seat! I had to give up my Mun base project after it became unrunnable at 180 parts! All of this while I watch PC players effortlessly running 600 part bases and driving awesome rovers around on other planets with no lag whatsoever and no rovers exploding!

Please, please, please, developers, please don't add a "Mun Launchsite" before fixing these bugs and performance issues!

Please.

 

Also, we need the ΔV calculator, as we can't really download a mod for that.

I am going to go a little off topic here, but I need to say something that I hope will help you. KSP is a very CPU bound game. The first generation Xbox One (the big square brick) uses the AMD Jaguar cpu running at a very low 1.75ghz base clock speed. If you build or assemble a large part count spacecraft, the framerate will suffer to the point where the game will pop back to dashboard when you enter physics range.

What I suggest, if you can afford it, is to buy yourself a Xbox One X (or Ps4 Pro). Your experience with KSP:EE will be vastly improved using the better console hardware. KSP on the One-X is very stable, and allows far bigger spacecraft and much faster load times. 

I have a 300+ parts Minmus surface base that lags the Xbox One X, but the game still works. The exact same game loaded on my old Xbox One crashes to dashboard almost everytime.

PC players running 600 parts spacecraft are using very high end cpu's (maybe overclocked) with multiple video cards. I would love to get my hands on that type of hardware, but my credit card limit says otherwise.

Back on topic, I will be buying the new KSP:EE dlc on first day of release! I hope the new dlc adds more achievements, and I am really looking forward to using all the very cool new parts and new Kerbal spacesuits! A big shout out, and thanks to Squad for giving those of us on console this new update. 

[T1mo98]

2 hours ago, dlrk said:

Uh, no. You have to go out of your way to access the cheat menu.

You would also have to go out of your way to enable this.

[dlrk]

42 minutes ago, T1mo98 said:

You would also have to go out of your way to enable this.

[citation needed]

[T1mo98]

1 hour ago, dlrk said:

[citation needed]

Extra launchsites that are currently in the game have to be enabled first before they can be used. It is more logical to assume that the Munar base will get this same toggle as opposed to assuming it will always be present.

[Gargamel]

Fact: Consoles are getting a Munar Launch pad.

Fact: ....... wait..... that's all we know.

 

We can make assumptions till the cows come home.   Until Squad officially announces something pertaining to the mechanics of how this feature will be implemented, let's just all relax and wait.   Guessing and supposition will only create more strife, stress, and arguments.   Which are things, as mentioned earlier in this thread, the community doesn't need.  

[ZooNamedGames]

I see @dlrk going on a tirade against this update but it's one of the few I genuine approve of. Now yes, I am a PC player, but that doesn't mean I don't pay attention to the console community and what's happening with it.

I actually think this is a good thing for the console community as they are at a disadvantage seeing as they have less content, less frequent update cycles, and are forever without mods that some PC players call 'essential' QoL additions to the game! More directly, players have less option to test their vehicles out. I recently read a thread (can't seem to find it) where a console player discovered that by using the cheats menu he could hack gravity to emulate whatever planet's gravity he wanted and even experiment with rendezvous and docking on Kerbin instead. Which makes sense for them. Allowing players to experiment again on the moon seems only fair.

It's not even like this is something out of reach for PC players either. Between HyperEdit, Kerbal Konstructs, Alien Space Program, and Interplanetary Launchpads, we have plenty of options to launch where ever we want, whenever we want. So this doesn't break the 'balance' (as if KSP ever had one for sandbox). Which for those concerned about players having a Mun launchsite in career or science mode; the simple answer is that it's coded out or has to be unlocked by completing set contracts or objectives to unlock it, by which time launching from the Mun won't have as nearly a large of a boost as players make it out to be (insert once in orbit, you're half way to anywhere, even if from the orbit of Kerbin). If that's still too much, maybe set the launchsite below the equator so that if players launch from it, they have to accommodate the inclination and that'll make going to other planets a challenge for newer players trying to abuse that. And it's not like it breaks the PC player's balance because HyperEdit works all the time, career, science, sandbox mode; no matter the science of fund level so balance is still out of the window- not to mention the cheat menu has the ability to set craft's into any orbit we want.

From what I've seen, console players are far less experienced(? I think that's the word I'm going for) as they enter the game with far less experience than PC players. Not that they aren't trying or are any less committed than a PC player but they aren't adapted to some of the niche quality games that we see on PC (Orbiter 2016,  Space Engine, Go for Launch). Players tend to set their goal on reaching the Mun, completed science/career mode and calling it a day with KSP. Occasionally revisiting once there's a substantial update. Not that I can fault them; once you complete the career/science modes, the only thing left to do is to finish landing on every body and maybe do a few personal accomplishments in sandbox, play the scenarios and if you're really hardcore, play to win all of the console exclusive achievements. Once you do that, there's little incentive for console players to keep playing. They can't spice up their play experience with new content like PC players can. They can't get other's crafts (afaik, maybe they can import), so their playtime on the game will soon end as there's simply little motivation to keep going.

So giving the console players a small launch point on the Mun seems like a small price to pay. For those who worry that "letting players spawn on the Mun defeats the sense of accomplishment they get from landing there the first time", that's a poor argument as any player that would claim that spawning on the Mun is the same as landing is just as flawed as a player who flew to the Mun using infinite fuel. There's little personal accomplishment in taking the cheap way to the Mun, and if that's what the player wants, then that's for them to decide! Players can decide their own play style! KSP is a SINGLEPLAYER game. Assuming what other players wants is a poor decision. Let the players decide for themselves.

14 minutes ago, Gargamel said:

Fact: Consoles are getting a Munar Launch pad.

Fact: ....... wait..... that's all we know.

 

We can make assumptions till the cows come home.   Until Squad officially announces something pertaining to the mechanics of how this feature will be implemented, let's just all relax and wait.   Guessing and supposition will only create more strife, stress, and arguments.   Which are things, as mentioned earlier in this thread, the community doesn't need.  

I ended up saying far more but your comment is just as accurate.

Edited March 2, 2019 by ZooNamedGames

[dlrk]

1 hour ago, T1mo98 said:

Extra launchsites that are currently in the game have to be enabled first before they can be used. It is more logical to assume that the Munar base will get this same toggle as opposed to assuming it will always be present.

It needs to be a separate toggle from the other sites, and the presence of it on the Mun needs to be toggleable off as well.. An off-kerbin site is different from more Kerbin sites.

@ZooNamedGames

 

Uh, I'm not the only one "going on a tirade" (objecting to the Munar launch site). It's breaking if it can't be toggled off completely.

[ZooNamedGames]

15 minutes ago, dlrk said:

It needs to be a separate toggle from the other sites, and the presence of it on the Mun needs to be toggleable off as well.. An off-kerbin site is different from more Kerbin sites.

@ZooNamedGames

 

Uh, I'm not the only one "going on a tirade" (objecting to the Munar launch site). It's breaking if it can't be toggled off completely.

With over a dozen posts bashing the addition of the launchsite, I'd call that a tirade. I haven't read the whole thread but from what I have seen, you haven't really considered the rest of the facts... which are very few. So most of your issues are extrapolations and assumptions. You don't know what Squad will do. You merely know there's a new launchsite. You don't know how they plan to implement it into the game beyond that it will be. This will be the first console update to bring additional launchsites so you literally have nothing to go on beyond what's done with the PC, which isn't a functional comparison as the console and PC ports are very different. So yes, you are on a tirade.

[dlrk]

Yeah, all 6 pages are just me...

[KerbolExplorer]

So when will PC get it?

[Loskene]

This game isn't bloody dark souls, and nobody cares whether any of you think "society" is getting too easy. None of that has anything to do with KSP getting an extra sandbox feature. Get it together lads.

[Gargamel]

Folks...

This debate is starting to push into territory we don't want it in.   Ie, some of these comments are getting a bit personal, and we don't do that. 

Stick to the merits of the discussion at hand, which are:

On 2/28/2019 at 4:00 PM, SQUAD said:

Coming to KSP Enhanced Edition’s first DLC: the History and Parts Pack - we present you the new Mun Launch Site, not currently available on PC. Console players will be able to select this complex or 3 additional ones(the Woomerang Launchsite, the Dessert Complex and the Island Runway) directly from the VAB or SPH.

That is all we know at this point.  Keep the discussion relevant to that statement, and not about others' motives or actions.  

[klgraham1013]

9 hours ago, Lisias said:

People stop buying today, the game flops no matter how many copies it was sold in the past.

I think our definition of flop is different.  I mean, people aren't still buying Titanic.  That doesn't discredit it's incredible sales for it's time.

9 hours ago, Lisias said:

The money KSP made in the past doesn't pays salaries in the future. They need to sell games today to get paid tomorrow.

No they do not.  That's why people in the game industry don't stay with one project their whole careers.  They move from one game to the next because that's how this industry works and that's how you get paid.

2 hours ago, Loskene said:

This game isn't bloody dark souls... None of that has anything to do with KSP getting an extra sandbox feature.

If you don't take lessons from the work of others, than you are destined to fail.

[Superfluous J]

19 minutes ago, klgraham1013 said:

That's why people in the game industry don't stay with one project their whole careers.  They move from one game to the next because that's how this industry works and that's how you get paid.

So you'd prefer they quit working on the game instead of trying to extend it both in content and revenue?

[Lisias]

46 minutes ago, klgraham1013 said:

I think our definition of flop is different.  I mean, people aren't still buying Titanic.  That doesn't discredit it's incredible sales for it's time.

I don't see anyone selling tickets for the Titanic, so I don't think your argument is useful.

 

47 minutes ago, klgraham1013 said:

No they do not.  That's why people in the game industry don't stay with one project their whole careers.  They move from one game to the next because that's how this industry works and that's how you get paid.

Tell that to EVE Online, Elite Dangerous, World of Warcraft.

One size doesn't fits all. KSP is not a "Project". It's a "Program" (using PMI terminology). They don't need to stop releasing new versions just because the other guys in the industry does that.

As long this model is paying their bills, is a valid model.

You are free to choose a KSP version and stick with it, if you want. Most of the bugs are on the Add'ons anyway, and once they are fixed, anyone can backport them to the KSP version he wants.

[Raptor9]

I'm not trying to prolong the debate, but I am kind of surprised at the direction this thread has taken.  For much of it's existence, the console version has had a significantly smaller footprint in the KSP Weekly's/KSP Loading's, much to the disappointment of the console community.  Now as a PC player, I don't pretend to fully grasp the frustration the console players have experienced since that version was released, but as a passionate KSP player for over 6 years, I do empathize.

Squad has released a KSP Loading preview showing a feature that has been quite clearly labeled as "not currently available for PC".  This in no way confirms or denies that this feature will EVER come to PC, let alone how it will be implemented.  (Full disclosure, I commented on this as well, but I trust my response was fairly reasonable)

I can only imagine how a lot of the console players must feel when they see the PC side of the community react this way when we should be expressing our support that they are finally getting an update from Blitworks (along with a similar DLC) that let's them access a great number of features that the PC community has been enjoying since 1.3+. 

[steve_v]

10 hours ago, Dunnfore said:

The first generation Xbox One (the big square brick) uses the AMD Jaguar

That's the same CPU as my router, I'm kinda surprised KSP runs on it at all.
 

20 minutes ago, Raptor9 said:

I can only imagine how a lot of the console players must feel when they see the PC side of the community react this way when we should be expressing our support that they are finally getting an update from Blitworks

I for one am happy that the console port is (finally) getting some love. I'd be happier if that included the whole DLC instead of this low-effort "extra-cheaty extra-launchsite" silliness though.

[Errol]

What I am wondering is if any of the developers thought that this "feature" would not be this divisive..

[Lisias]

1 hour ago, Errol said:

What I am wondering is if any of the developers thought that this "feature" would not be this divisive..

Remembering the past debates about every single subject that could (and some that couldn't) be debated around here, I think they are making bets between themselves on the subject.

Jokes apart, I think it's premature to call this (small) debate a division.

From the Front Page, I see "80 MEMBERS, 6 ANONYMOUS, 439 GUESTS (SEE FULL LIST)"  About 520 guys are here now, but there're 3915 persons playing KSP on Steam at this moment. And from that 520 guys logged here now, how many are posting on this thread? 20? 30? There're 147 posts here (148 when I post this one), and I think it's safe to assume an average of 3 or 4 posts per person. So, perhaps we have 35 to 50 guys arguing here.

10% of the current readers of this forum, and about… 1% of the players on Steam.

Most people are too busy playing KSP to bother about division. And to tell you the true, I think I should be with them.

(logging off, closing MonoDevelop and firing up KSP)

Edited March 3, 2019 by Lisias
Forgot a link

[CardinalBiggles57]

I don't see the problem with console users getting nice things.  If it comes to PC and anyone doesn't want to use it, they don't have to.  It's not as though KSP was a multiplayer live game where you have to cope with the changes like them or not.