Galileo

[1.8.1] JNSQ [0.9.0] [03 Feb 2020]

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2 minutes ago, OhioBob said:

I think it likely that everybody is going to have different ideas regarding what information to put on a quick reference guide.  Our pdf includes most all the information that players could be interested in.  But if players want to trim that information down into a more condense version, I think it is probably best that each individual player do it for themselves.  That way each player can have the specific information that's of greatest interest to he or she.  If we were to do it, we'd likely get requests asking that this be added, or that be added, or that something be removed.  Nothing we would do could possibly satisfy everyone.

True. Just today I was considering adding in space high/low altitudes.

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8 hours ago, leatherneck6017 said:

qgUoyVb.png

This is my first time playing JNSQ, and I love it. Only took me 5+ years to *mostly* finish up Kerbin SOI. Now I've got probes going everywhere!

My Nara probe launched 4 years ago, still has ~71 years left :o.

What mod are you using for that advanced Traked Objects list/filter?

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On 2/20/2020 at 10:46 PM, OhioBob said:

Main parachutes aren't suppose to deploy, Duna's air is too thin.  Drogue chutes work though.

Really? I've managed to just turn the minimum air pressure setting down to nothing, and regular chutes work. They don't work very well, but they work. Mind you I have TweakChutes removed to revert to stock behaviour.

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7 hours ago, Gordon Fecyk said:

Really? I've managed to just turn the minimum air pressure setting down to nothing, and regular chutes work. They don't work very well, but they work. Mind you I have TweakChutes removed to revert to stock behaviour.

TweakChutes is designed specifically to stop you from doing what you are doing by fixing what we believe to be a bug in stock KSP.  The minAirPressureToOpen for main parachutes is set in the part configs to 0.04 atm.  When designing a vessel in the VAB/SPH, it's impossible to set the parachute deployment pressure below the minimum.  But after a vessel is sent to the launchpad/runway, it's possible to right-click on a parachute and turn the slider down all the way to 0.01.  We consider this a bug/exploit as it seems clear a player shouldn't be able to set a parachute to open at a pressure less than the intended minimum.  TweakChutes fixes this so the slider can never go below the minimum specified in the part configs.

We designed Duna the way it is in JNSQ and bundled TweakChutes because we don't want people using main parachutes on Duna.  Our intent is to make it more Mars-like and increase the difficulty of landing there.  Drogue parachutes can be used to slow a vessel down, by probably not enough for a soft landing.  We want players to have to use propulsion to provide the last bit of braking prior to touchdown (or use their ingenuity to figure out some other landing method).  By removing TweakChutes you are circumventing an obstacle designed into JNSQ to make it more challenging.
 

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45 minutes ago, OhioBob said:

we don't want people using main parachutes on Duna.

Oh boy, I see a part seven and a half coming on... So what I'll have to do is reproduce the landings of the Duna rover and Duna lander, using drogues set for 0.02 atm to match the minimum set in there.

Is there a workaround to avoid TweakChutes and the RealChute Light implementation in Ferram Aerospace from conflicting?

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1 hour ago, Gordon Fecyk said:

Oh boy, I see a part seven and a half coming on... So what I'll have to do is reproduce the landings of the Duna rover and Duna lander, using drogues set for 0.02 atm to match the minimum set in there.

Is there a workaround to avoid TweakChutes and the RealChute Light implementation in Ferram Aerospace from conflicting?

You'd have to edit our TweakChutes config and add the proper needs so that it doesn't activate for the particular mod it's conflicting with. Is this "RealChute Lite" a mod with its own name or is it merely a feature within FAR? In case of the latter, then you should write :NEEDS[!FerramAerospaceResearch]

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5 hours ago, JadeOfMaar said:

Is this "RealChute Lite" a mod with its own name or is it merely a feature within FAR?

RealChute Lite is a compact implementation of RealChute that makes the stock chutes work in Ferram Aerospace. It replaces ModuleParachute in parachute parts, which is probably why I can still edit the min pressure in flight or in assembly below 0.04 or 0.02 atm when TweakChutes is loaded.

I can ask for this to get changed in FAR or in RealChute so it implements what TweakChutes does, but in the meantime I'll just respect the limits set in the part configs. Part 8 and a half coming shortly on line now.

Edited by Gordon Fecyk
Added video link

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Are there any objects/locations in JNSQ that you'd like to see added to Kerbal Maps? KSC (or its equivalent) should probably be in there, as well as any other publicly-known locations (other space centers, ground stations, etc.). I'm thinking about adding a "show spoilers" switch and adding anomalies/Easter eggs as well.

There are plans to make it so you can add your own points of interest, but for now I need to add them globally.

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4 hours ago, Gordon Fecyk said:

Oh boy, I see a part seven and a half coming on... 

Sorry, didn't mean to make more work for you. lol
By the way, I'm enjoying your video series.  good stuff.

FYI, the fix to the sliders is only half of what TweakChutes does.  In stock KSP, the minimum pressure setting applies only to semi deployment.  A parachute will full deploy when reaching the altitude setting regardless of the pressure.  This is again something we think is flawed (if the pressure is too low for semi-deployment, it makes no sense that it should full deploy).  TweakChutes assures that both the pressure and altitude conditions are satisfied before full deployment can happen.

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8 hours ago, CraigCottingham said:

Are there any objects/locations in JNSQ that you'd like to see added to Kerbal Maps? KSC (or its equivalent) should probably be in there, as well as any other publicly-known locations (other space centers, ground stations, etc.). I'm thinking about adding a "show spoilers" switch and adding anomalies/Easter eggs as well.

There are plans to make it so you can add your own points of interest, but for now I need to add them globally.

JNSQ has a few of its own extra space centers, airports and misc facilities (currently just mountaintop observatories). Some of these (currently just the observatory centers) are marked as anomalies and not readily accessible to the player. And eventually there will be more places like shoreline or mid-ocean bases (for boats to pit-stop at) and more biomes, primarily Kerbin's oceans.

Currently there are:

  • 9 large airports (all with always-on short-range groundstations)
  • 2 mountain-top observatories
  • The DLC-replacer space centers (2)
  • 4 alternate major space centers
  • The airplane boneyard near the KSC
  • 2 harbors
  • Tundra's (extra) Space Center when KSC Extended is present
  • The Island Airfield
  • KSC2 (whose existence I may challenge)

More KK stuff is planned to come, and not just space centers. There will be plenty to fill the spoilers category with, in due time.

 

Edited by JadeOfMaar

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1 hour ago, JadeOfMaar said:

JNSQ has a few of its own extra space centers, airports and misc facilities (currently just mountaintop observatories). Some of these (currently just the observatory centers) are marked as anomalies and not readily accessible to the player. And eventually there will be more places like shoreline or mid-ocean bases (for boats to pit-stop at) and more biomes, primarily Kerbin's oceans.

At your convenience, could you PM me the body/lat/long of the things you'd like to see added as points of interest, or point me to where I can find them myself? (I found the GameData/JNSQ/JNSQ_Configs/KK directory in the git repository, but that may be finer-grained than I need (lotsa config files in each subdirectory) and I don't know which ones are supposed to be commonly-known and which should be spoilers.)

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14 hours ago, OhioBob said:

TweakChutes is designed specifically to stop you from doing what you are doing by fixing what we believe to be a bug in stock KSP.  The minAirPressureToOpen for main parachutes is set in the part configs to 0.04 atm.  When designing a vessel in the VAB/SPH, it's impossible to set the parachute deployment pressure below the minimum.  But after a vessel is sent to the launchpad/runway, it's possible to right-click on a parachute and turn the slider down all the way to 0.01.  We consider this a bug/exploit as it seems clear a player shouldn't be able to set a parachute to open at a pressure less than the intended minimum.  TweakChutes fixes this so the slider can never go below the minimum specified in the part configs.

We designed Duna the way it is in JNSQ and bundled TweakChutes because we don't want people using main parachutes on Duna.  Our intent is to make it more Mars-like and increase the difficulty of landing there.  Drogue parachutes can be used to slow a vessel down, by probably not enough for a soft landing.  We want players to have to use propulsion to provide the last bit of braking prior to touchdown (or use their ingenuity to figure out some other landing method).  By removing TweakChutes you are circumventing an obstacle designed into JNSQ to make it more challenging.
 

MinAirPressureToOpen sets the slider default position. Not its minimum position. Basing the TweakChute slider minimum on the stock default means that people with custom cfgs to preset higher pressures within the min/max can’t lower it back to normal later because the slider input value was used to set tweakchutes minimum.

Not sure why you don’t feel like that’s a problem

edit: use case example -> user Uses CFG to set chute default input to open later in kerbin atmosphere, couple km above ASL.
User builds a probe to land on a body with slightly less air pressure or that needs to land on a mountain. Users probe crashes because chutes won’t deploy as he can’t select a value lower than whatever the default input value in the CFG is.

Edited by Jognt

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6 hours ago, Jognt said:

MinAirPressureToOpen sets the slider default position. Not its minimum position. Basing the TweakChute slider minimum on the stock default means that people with custom cfgs to preset higher pressures within the min/max can’t lower it back to normal later because the slider input value was used to set tweakchutes minimum.

Not sure why you don’t feel like that’s a problem

edit: use case example -> user Uses CFG to set chute default input to open later in kerbin atmosphere, couple km above ASL.
User builds a probe to land on a body with slightly less air pressure or that needs to land on a mountain. Users probe crashes because chutes won’t deploy as he can’t select a value lower than whatever the default input value in the CFG is.

This hasn’t been an issue with anyone else, so what do you propose is done? 

edit: I see your recommendation in the issue you linked.

Edited by Galileo

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22 hours ago, Galileo said:

This hasn’t been an issue with anyone else, so what do you propose is done? 

edit: I see your recommendation in the issue you linked.

Admittedly a very niche use case. It mostly just irked me for perfectionistic reasons. 

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Speaking of parachutes at Duna ... I found a chute that allows landing on Duna with just the chute, no retro thrust needed. Tantares "Aquarius Size 0 Drogue Parachute". I'm not sure if that chute is too good or if something else is going on.

This was my first time landing at Duna with Tantares parts and also my first time visiting Duna in 1.8.1. Anecdotally, it felt like aerobraking was more effective than during 1.7.3, too. I didn't see any Duna atmo changes in the JNSQ changelog.

The attached screenshot has aero data turned on. Gravity force is 4.1 kN while the chute is creating 3.6 kN drag. I tried 2 landing spots. Spot 1 at 1300m ASL landed at 9 m/s, spot 2 at 2100 m ASL (attached image) landed at 12 m/s.

2a5wxUp.png

 

 

Edited by DeadJohn
fixed image link

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Just wanted to say thanks to the JNSQ team! I've been playing with this mod for just a short time (my first experience with a non-stock solar system) and it's already completely changed the way that I play. Parts that were completely unnecessary (heat shields) or overkill (hydrolox sustainers) are now critical to my space program. By the time I returned from my first low orbit, I realized that I wanted to construct a space station in Mun orbit to facilitate crewed landings... something that I never would have dreamed of bothering with in stock.

I've created a modified version of the web-based Launch Window Planner for JNSQ. All body parameters are taken straight from the config files or CelestialBodies pdf; initial testing shows it is fairly accurate against the in-game Transfer Window Planner mod. Hopefully folks here find it useful. 

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5 hours ago, DeadJohn said:

Speaking of parachutes at Duna ... I found a chute that allows landing on Duna with just the chute, no retro thrust needed. Tantares "Aquarius Size 0 Drogue Parachute". I'm not sure if that chute is too good or if something else is going on.

That doesn't completely surprise me.  If you have a big enough drogue, or enough drogues, it should still be possible to land on parachutes only.  We just tried to make it very impractical to do so for a vessel of any significant size.

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What about those 58 errors in log?

ERROR: getting pixelFloatD with unloaded map

ERROR: getting pixelFloatD with unloaded map

 

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The talking in the explodium breathing engines thread got me thinking, what's the orbital velocity for low Nara orbit? It might be possible to get to orbit from the surface by a combination of rocket and propeller, since @EvermoreAlpacagot out out of low Jool atmosphere that way(the pressure at Jool sea level is 50 atm, and he went to -247m, the orbital velocity for low Jool orbit is around 6700 m/s)

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2 hours ago, Space Nerd said:

what's the orbital velocity for low Nara orbit?

At the upper edge of its atmosphere, 5783 m/s.

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Should Near Future Exploration reflector dishes get a buff applied to them in jnsq? Currently only the NFX feed antennas get buffed, but that makes almost no difference to final range when using the reflectors

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Just now, Rodger said:

Should Near Future Exploration reflector dishes get a buff applied to them in jnsq? Currently only the NFX feed antennas get buffed, but that makes almost no difference to final range when using the reflectors

Currently, no. None of us in Team Galileo use NFX or even play enough to care whether buffing reflector power is important. If there is demand, we'll make it so, but we may need whoever's asking about it to not be a basic player and to bring a good explanation (a sense of scale to roll with and write the buff upon) and not simply ask us to write the buff. While the idea of the reflector system is epic, we're not going to make the time to learn its mini-game. There is plenty else for us to walk knee-deep in to make JNSQ better and better by itself.

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