Akira_R

I still get the previously mentioned NullRef spam when using your build. It only happens in the tracking station and in the flight/map screens. Additionally starting a brand new game and launching a vessel I get no NullRefs, but once I exit and load the game up again then go to the tracking station or launch again the NullRefs start.

LOL, and 2 years later.... Any ways, yeah I actually figured it out, just took a couple hours of actually diving into the TARGET scripts to learn how the syntax works and what does what, I honestly have no memory of what I did at this point but I have it all working nicely, even implemented at swap yaw/roll button in TARGET for switching between flying planes in atmo and controlling space craft. Thanks for the reply though!!

I never got around to turning them into MM patches, ill pm you a link to the configs though mate

How strange.... I too am using PBC with ReStock and ReStock+ (plus a bunch of other mods) and did not experience this issue.... I know that isn't really helpful for you since it is clearly not working for you... but it SHOULD work. Looks like your log file there is deleted again, maybe try using dropbox? In addition your MM config cache file may also be of use in understanding what is happening.

Yeah, the stuff KSR adds around the space center is in a different group than the rest of the space center, so it suffers from the old issue of things spreading out due to the rescale. I had to move those things around as well, it was one of the only groups I had to actually move individual statics to get things aligned well (not KSR's fault of course, or KK's, just an issue with me not seeing a way to rotate on all 3 axis in the group editor)

Why would it end your save? Don't update your game to the new version, or did you mod your steam install?? If you did try seeing if you can't an older version downloaded, IDK if on steam if they have older versions in the "betas" section.

Unfortunately It does not sound like it, If you look up through the comments above you will see a decent amount of discussion about it. I certainly hope it gets an update from someone, I have been using it in one form or another for nearly 8 years now I think, maybe more, feels wrong without it and I'm just not a huge fan of the stock fairings

Hmmm.... Pretty sure this is incorrect. Kerbin Side Remastered is definitely already configured to use the group system and things don't get splayed out (the GitHub link in the OP goes to an older release prior to the whole group center system). The problem is that each group center point isn't actually centered in relation with its cluster of statics, sometimes it's offset by quite a bit, like a couple hundred meters or more. Since the static offsets are unaffected by rescaling (which is why things don't get splayed out anymore) the cluster of statics will no longer be in the correct position as the distance from the lat/lon of the group center to the actual position on the terrain the statics are meant to be placed is now 3.2x farther. If the statics were actually centered around the group center point this wouldn't happen and rescales would work basically out of the box and the only real issue you might have is with terrain height. It's an even bigger problem for groups with 2 different clusters of statics, such as the Uber Dam, the distance from the dam to the airfield statics doesn't change while the distance from the actual canyon itself to the point on the terrain where the airfield should be is now 3.2x farther. In addition the map decals are affected differently than the statics and groups, haven't quite figured out exactly what it is that is happening with them with the rescale, I think they are showing up in the correct places but their scaling is kinda weird so they need tweaking as well. Ok, so I mean it would be pretty clear exactly what I was asking for to any one who might actually have some of the patches I was asking for, hence why I figured any kind of additional clarification was pretty unnecessary, if you didn't know then you wouldn't have it. And I guess just for your info, no that is not what needs to be done to get things working with a rescale, you don't want to resize any of the statics, you need to reposition them in relation to the resized terrain. The reason it took me so long was due to me just fiddling with things and learning all the features of the new editor (none of the group editing last time I used it), issues with adjusting map decals and a camera bug I kept experiencing when using the editor that required a restart whenever it happened. Also that's like the whole point of making a MM patch, so you aren't redistributing all of the configs....

Ok cool, thanks a bunch for the info!

Hey mate quick question, did you have to go in and manually set lat/lon cords and altitudes for all the bases, or are the contracts able to reference the statics added by KerbinSide Remastered? I had to move some of the bases around a little bit due to terrain changes when using a 3.2x rescale and I'm wondering if I'm going to need to go in and check all of the contracts as well, make sure they are sending things to the correct spot.

"patches for a 3.2x rescale" thought that was kinda clear lol. But I already finished it, the KerbalKonstructs editor has improved since I last used it, "only" took me like 5 hours. Unfortunately they aren't in a MM patch form, just the altered configs KK produces, if I end up taking the time to make a proper MM patch for it I'll post it someplace in case anyone else wants to use Kerbin Side Remastered on a 3.2x rescale.

That's a lot fewer bees percentage wise! I'll proceed with tossing it in, I would say chances are decent you'll have the wheels fixed before I finish building and roughly "testing" my install lol. Much less get to the point of starting any actual save games....

A little bit of searching didn't turn anything up, so any one happen to have some patches for a 3.2x rescale lying around that they could share???? Figured I would ask before starting in on the work for myself, no sense doing work twice lol.

I noticed a new Constellation PreRelease for 1.12. Just how bee filled is it? Am I better off sticking with the older Constellation PreRelease, or can I expect similar quantities of bees?

lol well that's very nice, I don't use CKAN and I never will, and that is an insanely lazy excuse, dependencies should be stated by the mod author, that's how this whole thing works. CKAN is a wonderful crutch for those with out the time, or pre-requisite knowledge of computers, to learn how modding KSP works and how simple things like folder structures are set up. EDIT: just to clarify I'm not saying CKAN is a bad thing, it's great that CKAN can help bring mods to a wider audience of people who would be discouraged by the prospect of manually installing mods (even though this is one of the simplest games out there when it comes to installing mods) but CKAN often leads to more headaches than it solves, at least for mod authors. Also you have much more control over your mods doing things manually, I tend to heavily mod KSP and usually have to patch a bunch of stuff together to get it all playing nicely, been doing it for almost 10 years now lol

Yeah I feel the same way, it's unfortunate but it's what we got. I especially miss the porkchop plots and the ability to choose what I consider is a good transfer, maybe I'm not overly concerned about dV requirements and want to find a super fast transfer, maybe I just want to see what is available in the next 30 days, is that too much to ask??? lol, ah well, I've been making do with what we have for now, but yeah hopefully the stock features get fleshed out more, or maybe that is what TriggerAu has planned for these mods, to integrate the more advanced functionality they provided into the base game tools. Hopefully we'll see some progress on these sooner than later, but for now I'm trying to not let it hold me back lol.

Well there's your problem lol. So neither mod is updated for the current patch, what's more TriggerAu has evolved beyond a mere mortal modder and is now a fully endowed member of the KSP development team and with the rest of the team has integrated the base features of his two wonderful mods into the game as of v1.12, so some might argue that these mods are no longer needed. However there are some bells and whistles the mods have that the new game features lack, and if I'm interpreting his posts correctly he has stated he intends to revisit these mods and furnish us with an update, when that may happen we do not know. Until then you will have to make do with the stock functionality (which I'm fairly certain can do exactly what you want) or keep trying to use these outdated versions, but bugs like the one you seem to be experiencing are likely and you are unlikely to get any kind of support. Hope this helps explain the situation, the stock features work pretty good, also you could check out the Astrogator mod as it does some similar stuff.

Ok that definitely would explain the behavior I am seeing. Problem is I installed everything from the KK Git linked in the OP, and there is zero information about dependencies or where I would find them, that feels like a pretty major oversight... I saw you post something about this Custom Pre Launch Checks thing when I was digging through this and the old KK thread, but googling it only brings up the old KK thread, so help me out here, where am I supposed to get this stuff, where is it linked? An why does this not have all of the appropriate dependencies or the necessary KK doll??? Lol EDIT: Ok so I'm back at my computer and I popped open the KK folder and the KK dll is sitting in there as it should be, so I don't know what is preventing it from getting loaded.... Again I'm using the Latest release linked in the OP, v1.8.2.1 for KSP 1.10, which according to posts here should be working on 1.12 correct? Perhaps it is the lack of this Custom Pre Launch Checks thing, which I still haven't found.... EDIT2: Got it working, poked around on the GitHub, noticed 2 branches for KK and the branch owned by KodeUI had the Custom Pre Launch Checks folder in it, so I downloaded that branch and just took the Custom Pre Launch Checks folder and everything is working as intended. @NathanKell might want to include that in the release or at least link to it and let people know they need to grab it.

I'm having some issues with this and Kerbin Side Remastered on KSP 1.12.2 basically It's as if KK is not even installed. There is no KK options in the difficulty settings when starting a new save, nothing showing on the map and I have no new launch sites to select, there's also no toolbar buttons or anything. I haven't used KK since KSP 1.9 so I don't know if anything has changed, I'm not seeing any documentation on how launch site selection and such should work for, as if it should be obvious or it's assumed people just know how this works. Here's my KSP.log EDIT: just noticed that my test install is still on 1.12.1 but I am getting the same results in my main install which is on 1.12.2 but I will update my test install just to be sure. EDIT2: no change on 1.12.2

What KSP version?

Noice, I like the looks of this, hope you keep it up! (and that JPL cools his jets)

Nice! What's the diameter on that heat shield, is it inflatable and what mod is it from? lol

TL;DR: Complexity =\= challenge or difficulty. The most important thing a gameplay system/mechanic can do is give the player the opportunity to make meaningful decisions that impact their gameplay experience, single resource systems can easily do this while the current system does not. ----------------------------------------------------------- I have to disagree with the premise of your argument. Having 3 currencies is not inherently more challenging than having 1 currency, adding these "multiple constraints" is only guaranteed to add complexity, and complexity is not the same thing as challenge or difficulty. Nor does complexity inherently facilitate meaningful gameplay decisions, which is THE most important thing any gameplay system should do. While complexity, when done correctly and in the correct situation, can add these types of things to a game, more often than not the only thing it adds is unneeded tedium or clutter. I would argue the current career system does nothing to facilitate any kind of interesting or meaningful decision making. In many ways a single currency could be set up to be far more difficult or challenging than a 3 currency model, and present the player with much more meaningful decisions. Allow me to illustrate; what can you do with funds? Build vehicles, that's pretty much it and, if you turn it on, buy part unlocks. What can you do with science? Unlock techs. That's it. What can you do with reputation? No seriously anybody know what it's for??? Lol ok you use it to apply the policy things or whatever they are called which give various bonuses to your space program. Each resource is really only used for a single thing with no real overlap aside from turning on purchased part unlocking. This means the only real decision you need to make is "do I save this resource or spend it now". If we consider the real world for a short moment, research costs money, in fact R&D costs are typically far far higher than manufacturing costs. Not that I think realism is a good argument to justify a game mechanic but consider the decision that has to be made, how much money do you devote to increasing production vs how much do you spend on developing something new. A single resource system would add more of this type of decision making to the game; having to decide how you want to allocate your resources, spend more building rockets, spend more researching new tech, or spend more now to add bonuses that increase how quickly you get more resources. This very very basic example where you just merge all of the resources to one without changing any of the other systems would still add some meaningful management decision making to the career experience, something which is currently very very lacking. Another good example of this is the system in Kerbal Construction Time, one of the mods I typically can't play without now. For those that don't know it makes things take actual time; building vehicles, unlocking techs, and upgrading facilities is no longer instantaneous. It has a single resource that you can spend in a huge variety of ways, increase the production rate of rockets or increase the production rate of space planes, add additional production lines so that you can build multiple things at once, add and increase the science point reward you get for building vehicles, increase the speed at which new techs are unlocked etc. By adding this single resource to the game it gives the player a ton of choices that have a meaningful and tangible impact on their gameplay experience.

Really interesting idea OP, I don't know if I'm 100% on board with the single currency model (at least for a career mode), but I have been pleasantly surprised by making similar switches in the past. Just as an example I was a long time user of TAC life support, I liked the realism it offered, a number of mods I used began dropping their TAC-LS support in favor of USI-LS. I wasn't a fan of this as it was going from a 3 resource model to a more abstracted single resource model, I felt this took away a lot of the realism. After finally giving it a go though I found USI-LS just as enjoyable as TAC-LS, it reduced some of the complexity without reducing any of the difficulty and challenge that needing to consider life support adds to the game. Not a perfect analogy for this situation I know. It could be a good alternative to the current science mode though. An addition that could be made for something a bit more like career mode could be adding basically a second resource such as a break through discovery mechanic. Make either certain levels of the tech tree or certain branches of it locked behind a break through discovery requirement. I'm thinking things like the more futuristic propulsion systems, and any other more advanced things that you need to visit the other stars and maybe some of the more advanced totally self sufficient colony buildings (or however that system will work). Break through discoveries have a % chance of being gained whenever conducting any type science experiment in a situation other than landed at Kerbin. The % chance increases as you progress further out into the solar system with the hardest to reach bodies providing the highest chance of making a discovery. This would give reason to do more than just grind up Enthusiasm at Kerbin until you have entirely unlocked the tech tree, and it would give reason for repeat missions to places. Some additional features that could make it interesting and open up more gameplay options. You could have actions that could increase the % chance. For instance having a crewed lab could give a boost to discovery % on that craft or in that SOI. Making a discovery in a specific situation could reduce the % chance for any further discoveries in that same situation. Or only reduce it for that type of experiment in that same situation. You could require that a kerbal must be involved, or that only certain high tier science equipment can make the discoveries without a kerbal present. You could have some kind of designated research station parts, for both ground and orbit, that are guaranteed to produce a breakthrough after a given amount of time in operation, something pretty long like 10-20 years by default. Require the parts to be staffed They could have high power requirements and/or require various expendable materials that you would need to resupply periodically, making it so that you need to have infrastructure set up to support them. This would need to be balanced such that periodic resupply flights don't get overly tedious. Have ways to decrease the time, again being further out in the system could reduce it, or have it so if you supply materials that can only be gathered in places like the Jool system, Eeloo, etc they will greatly reduce the time requirement. Perhaps could tie into a procedural mission system, things like some parts failing and you need to bring out new stuff, scientist has an idea and needs some special material that can only be gathered from a certain area in Eve's ocean or something and supplying it would dramatically reduce time to breakthrough. Any ways just spit-balling some ideas, basically I really want to see anything that will provide some kind of mid term goals for gameplay, it's one of the big problems I face when I play KSP, the contracts rarely inspire me to do anything interesting, I will often set myself a midterm goal like establishing a gateway station around Mun and a ground outpost on the Mun. But then I will complete that and just be stuck with "ok I did the thing... Now what should I do??" and kind of get stuck trying to decide what my next steps should be.

I second this opinion, when I heard that 1.12 would be the "last" patch it got me sooooo excited for mod authors finally being able to put time in on major mods without having to worry about updates breaking things.