eberkain

Looks fantastic

I had an idea about compatibility with Vens Stock Revamp. That mod quite radically changes the style of the Mk1 pod, and it no longer fits in with the MOLE parts. So would it be possible to do a config that if Vens was installed it would create a second Mk1 command pod part with the vanilla style, call it the "throwback" command module or some such.

I'm using the 2.5.4 texture replacer and quite alot of mods, and yes I had all the compatibility packs installed. I remember having issues with a few of the engines in Vens Stock Revamp, even through there was a pack for it. It was distracting enough that I just pulled window shine from my list. Plus there are some mods that I like that have no pack yet. MOLE.

There are geometry errors that constantly spam when some engines are used.

I'm using the most recent texture replacer build, and I was getting a number of parts like engines that were fully glossy for whatever reason, Removing window shine removed the problem.

I did some looking, and apparently there is no fix right now.

So a couple questions. No engine seems to utilize the minimum thrust limit. I understand not wanting a strict real world limit where 80-90% is the lowest you can throttle. But it does upgrade with engine tech level and the 25-50% range would be down to something like 2-5% at tech 7. I think it would be an interesting mechanic to have in play. What was the reasoning to omit the feature entirely? Also, some engines that were monoprop before now have configs for hypergolic mixtures. That doesn't seem to realistic, there are three monoprop in Real Fuels, Hydrazine, NTO, and HTP, Hydrazine seems to be the one used alot and its supposed to be the top tier choice, HTP is used some, NTO isn't really used at all. Whats the reasoning behind using hypergolics and monoprops on the same engines?

I'm pretty sure he is asking for Research Bodies Support. Galileo's Planet Pack has support for it so I suspect alot of people are using it right now, even though I think it was still a beta release for 1.2.2, I pulled the latest dev version from here and it seems to work ok. Could be neat to add to the summary, not sure if research bodies even has a way to pull that information through. A summary message would be nice for this and a couple other mods. For those of us crazy enough to make detailed logbooks about our career games. But you know what I need is mod that will store them all so if I click one off that I meant to read that I could still pull it up somehow... Actually, you know what just occurred to me. Is it possible to make a mod that would pull the contents of every system message and write it to a file with a timestamp? Would skip savegame bloat entirely, and with a specialized text parser I could pull data from the message log. Also, on the subject of timestamp... What constitutes a quarter in state funding? What if we play with Earth Time instead of Kerbin Time. Is it based on the actual home planet orbital stats, or is it based on the clock? Something I learned is if you use Sigma Dimensions to rescale the system, the clock doesn't correlate to the celestial movements anymore. I've also been told that there is a Kopernicus Time that simply turns the clock readout to use an actual local scale for the home planet, GPP is going to use that on their next update.

They also change the thickness curve, so when you hit the edge of the atmosphere at 8km/s you dont just vaporize.

Thank you, I never noticed the popup when mousing over the fuel config button. Lets look at these stats... Coxswain Type U Engine Level 1 Level 7 Level 1 Level 7 Thrust 60-100 Thrust 76-126 Isp 185-308 Isp 213-355 Mass 0.2 Mass 0.174 TWR 48.8 TWR 71.2 Cost 226 Cost 377 Cost 1 Cost 2 The level 7 Type U TWR is 145% of the level 1 TWR. The level 7 Max Thrust of the engine is 126% of the level 1 Max Thrust. The Level 7 Max Isp is 115% of the the level 1 Max Isp. None of these seem to correlate with each other so far as I can tell. Perhaps the fuel flow rate is also increasing with each tech level? combined with the Isp increase is hitting the actual thrust increase... I'm tempted to just pull the level 7 data directly from the game for my spreadsheet instead of trying to calculate each engines tech level stats. It would still serve to compare engines against one another as eventually you will have the tech maxed out anyhow. I'm not so clear on how the cost goes from 226 to 377 when the multiplier is a 2. Also not sure why the weight goes down 13% from level 1 - 7. I checked at it does not change on a linear scale... 0.2 0.19 0.184 0.181 0.179 0.176 0.174 I tried to find a correlation between anything and the weight scale with no success.

Ok, so then why is the thrust in-game different from the engine config file?

I'm just trying to better understand all the ins and outs of how the mod works, so please let me ask a couple specific questions. The RealSettings.cfg specifies a TWR for each engine type / tech level. How does that come into play when the part's weight and thrust are both defined per part? For example, the Coxwain stockalike config is this... @PART[engineLargeSkipper_125m]:FOR[RealFuels_StockEngines] //Coxswain { @mass = 0.2 @cost = 226 %entryCost = 1130 @maxTemp = 1551 @MODULE[ModuleEngine*] { @name = ModuleEnginesRF @maxThrust = 100 @heatProduction = 131 @atmosphereCurve { @key,0 = 0 308 @key,1 = 1 185 } !PROPELLANT[LiquidFuel] {} !PROPELLANT[Oxidizer] {} !PROPELLANT[MonoPropellant] {} PROPELLANT { name = Kerosene ratio = 37.694087 DrawGauge = True %resourceFlowMode = STACK_PRIORITY_SEARCH } PROPELLANT { name = LqdOxygen ratio = 62.305913 %resourceFlowMode = STACK_PRIORITY_SEARCH } } MODULE { name = ModuleEngineConfigs type = ModuleEnginesRF techLevel = 1 origTechLevel = 1 engineType = U origMass = 0.2 configuration = Kerosene+LqdOxygen modded = false CONFIG { name = Kerosene+LqdOxygen maxThrust = 100 heatProduction = 131 PROPELLANT { name = Kerosene ratio = 37.69408655434424 DrawGauge = True %resourceFlowMode = STACK_PRIORITY_SEARCH } PROPELLANT { name = LqdOxygen ratio = 62.30591344565576 %resourceFlowMode = STACK_PRIORITY_SEARCH } IspSL = 1.0000 IspV = 1.0000 throttle = 0 ignitions = 1 ullage = true pressureFed = false IGNITOR_RESOURCE { name = ElectricCharge amount = 1 } } CONFIG { name = MMH+NTO maxThrust = 100 heatProduction = 131 PROPELLANT { name = MMH ratio = 49.219280380176514 DrawGauge = True %resourceFlowMode = STACK_PRIORITY_SEARCH } PROPELLANT { name = NTO ratio = 50.780719619823486 %resourceFlowMode = STACK_PRIORITY_SEARCH } IspSL = 0.9600 IspV = 0.9500 throttle = 0 ignitions = 4 ullage = true pressureFed = false IGNITOR_RESOURCE { name = ElectricCharge amount = 1 } } CONFIG { name = LqdHydrogen+LqdOxygen maxThrust = 75 heatProduction = 131 PROPELLANT { name = LqdHydrogen ratio = 76.30830964721619 DrawGauge = True %resourceFlowMode = STACK_PRIORITY_SEARCH } PROPELLANT { name = LqdOxygen ratio = 23.69169035278381 %resourceFlowMode = STACK_PRIORITY_SEARCH } IspSL = 1.3000 IspV = 1.2700 throttle = 0 ignitions = 1 ullage = true pressureFed = false IGNITOR_RESOURCE { name = ElectricCharge amount = 1 } } } ignitions = 1 ullage = true pressureFed = false IGNITOR_RESOURCE { name = ElectricCharge amount = 1 } } In-game I see these as the tech 1 and tech 7 versions of Kerolox. So the thrust is way less than what is specified in the config, so there is something else going on here. I looked into what Type U engine means and found the RealSettings.cfg which explains some things, but I'm still not there on understanding how everything works. Like, this is what it says about a type U engine... ENGINETYPE { name = U TLISP0 { key = 0 280 key = 1 168 } TLTWR0 = 35.2 TLCOST0 = 1.0 TLTECH0 = start TLTHROTTLE0 = 1 TLISP1 { key = 0 308 key = 1 185 } TLTWR1 = 48.8 TLCOST1 = 1.2 TLTECH1 = basicRocketry TLTHROTTLE1 = 1 TLISP2 { key = 0 325 key = 1 195 } TLTWR2 = 56.8 TLCOST2 = 1.4 TLTECH2 = generalRocketry TLTHROTTLE2 = 1 TLISP3 { key = 0 335 key = 1 201 } TLTWR3 = 61.6 TLCOST3 = 1.6 TLTECH3 = advRocketry TLTHROTTLE3 = 1 TLISP4 { key = 0 340 key = 1 204 } TLTWR4 = 64 TLCOST4 = 1.75 TLTECH4 = heavyRocketry TLTHROTTLE4 = 0.8 TLISP5 { key = 0 345 key = 1 207 } TLTWR5 = 66.4 TLCOST5 = 1.85 TLTECH5 = heavierRocketry TLTHROTTLE5 = 0.75 TLISP6 { key = 0 350 key = 1 210 } TLTWR6 = 68.8 TLCOST6 = 1.95 TLTECH6 = veryHeavyRocketry TLTHROTTLE6 = 0.7 TLISP7 { key = 0 355 key = 1 213 } TLTWR7 = 71.2 TLCOST7 = 2.0 TLTECH7 = experimentalRocketry TLTHROTTLE7 = 0.6 } AhHa here is where the Isp values are coming from. So it says tech 1 type U engine has 48.8 TWR. Maybe if the the ratio has too much thrust then it lowers the thrust, or too much weight it lowers the weight, kind of overrides the engine specific configs? So, 60kN is 60,000 N and 0.2 t is 200 kg. So assuming we are dealing with 1g surface TWR, then it is 60,000 / ( 200 * 9.807) = 30.6... that is not 48.8, so I'm missing something else. What if it was the 100kN from the engine config? Nope, that is 50.9 TWR. No combination I see comes out to 48.8 TWR, so maybe that value from the engine type config is just not used... But what is causing the thrust to be 60 when it clearly says 100 in the config. I feel like I'm just missing something obvious. Also, the cost is defined as 226. The tech 7 type U config says Cost is 2.0, I'm guessing that is a multiplier. The in-game the costs are 226 and 377. Also, the mass goes down each tech level, but that is not in the engine config. Is it just a fixed % per tech level? I went back and read through all the OP posts, but I didn't see answers to any of my questions. I did see where it mentions the the engine type TWR is a multiplier... I'm definitely not seeing how the math works on that.. Ultimately, I'm out to build a spreadsheet of all the engines and their configs that I have installed. For a variety of reasons, I want to have a good way to compare different engines and the in-game editor is not great once you factor in different tech levels and fuel mixes, and I also want to be able to fix any problems with plumes and modded engines that are missing configs, something I'm only going to find it I check them all one by one. So I've spent a few hours working on it and I started to realize just how complex Real Fuels is, I'm not deterred I actually think its going to be easier now to get all the data entered, I just need to work out exactly what is going on with some of the math so I can make sure my spreadsheet calculations are accurate.

I think the intended use it to fly the main stage all the way to orbit, then jump back to the booster stages and land them one at a time, but don't recover them, just land them. Once all the different parts of the vessel are in a safe spot then you start recovering them.

That was going to be my suggestion, sounds like the perfect solution.

The only difference between these shots is I changed the real fuels tech level to max. The part description says 0.25t, the right click menu says 11.16kg, the engineer report and real fuel window both show -0.009t Just to be sure some other config wasn't messing with the part I did a quick search.

Yes I get the same bug with the Twin Boar with fuel configs getting spammed which is a stock engine with a fuel tank built in. So I think that is just a real fuels problem.

FYI: Research Bodies manages to add an observatory to the KSC without relying on Kerbal Konstructs.

I seem to be encountering a bug with the real fuel support, If I play around with the buttons in the engine gui I can get a negative mass and it starts spamming the engine properties with fuel configs. I tried the same with a dozen or so other engines and didn't encounter it with any of them using the Real Fuels - Stockalike configs. . EDIT: I did find a part that is setup the same, multiple engine configs and a built in fuel tank, it has the same bug with auto fuel combinations getting spammed to the part window. But I was unable to make it have a negative weight by messing with the tech level buttons. The edamame engine from Homegrown Rockets. The config for that engine is provided from here.

photoshop

It is a bit of a bear to get everything installed right, I flubbed a few things when I first downloaded it.

That is great to hear. Ultimately its a minor thing, but I want to know a year is actually a year when I start logging my career game.

So the game has two options for displaying time, either Kerbin Time (6 hour/day 426 days/year ) or Earth Time (24 hour/day 365days/year). What I am finding is that regardless of the DayLengthMultiplier the timer will still turnover at that interval. We need a third option for Local Time, where it would just do an hours per day and days per year cycle that was based on the home planets actual orbital parameters. I'm not sure if that is even possible, so if I want the actual solar system movement to synchronize with the day counter I have to use one of the two time display options. So I was going to try and figure out what the rescale and day length multiplier need to be for Gael to exactly match a 24 hour day and 365 day year cycle in the solar system simulation. With no scale applied Gael shows this in the tracking center. Orbit Altitude 13,913,379,719m Rotation Period 5h 59m 9s My math says that a rescale around 7.21 and a daylengthmultiplier of 4 should put me real close, but when I try a practical test. Go to the tracking center, target the sun, zoom out and fix camera overhead, mark Gael's position with a UI element, timewarp 1 full year.... Gael passes the marked position around 320 days... Another wrench could be that I don't know if ksp is programmed for the Earth Time scale to be a rounded even 24 hours 365 days, or if it uses the actual numbers. Want to assist with another math problem?

Anyone else able to use KER with Real Fuels, it seems to be really hit and miss for me. Sometimes showing accurate, sometimes just showing 0, sometimes showing a wildly inaccurate number. It might say 150 deltav, then in flight when i ignite the engine it jumps to 2000 delta v.

Dude, you are awesome.

Ultimately I had to pull Kerbal Konstructs from my install, it just seems to hit my performance too much, regardless of scale. The other day I installed GPP which has a 6.4x scale bundled. I played around in it for a while and decided that is what I want to do for my new career game. There is no 6.4 scale delta v map that I am aware of right now. I thought about it for a while and I decided to just add a sheet to my logbook about the planets. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1JTfMDEn7UeBsPZoiL_CGK77bNoDUOTTpWvKRCWDN3gw/edit#gid=1275207847 Maybe you can tell me why my math on orbital velocity isn't coming out right.