JoE Smash

Ok @Lisias and @JAFO, I don't want to jump the gun because I don't feel I have done enough exhaustive testing to feel positive, because I myself got exhausted and needed a nap....That being said, putting the 64bit xinput1_3.dll from my Windows\system32 folder into the KSP_x64_data\plugins folder seems to be equally stable as doing the reverse of this...I think. I didn't get to play as much as I would have liked, or reverted as many flights as I would have liked, but I messed around quite a bit and I didn't crash to desktop.....In my opinion I did do at least three times as many things that would normally have resulted in a crash by now, so that will have to be good enough for now. I don't feel this is a matter of one dll or another being "bad" or "corrupted" or containing bad code, I think the 32bit xinput1_3.dll being in the KSP x64 data plugins folder was just WRONG. Just wrong in the general way that 32bit and 64bit programs don't play well with each other, or with a 64bit OS that doesn't match in general. I tried out that Dependancy Walker program you mentioned, and while I don't fully understand what all those errors mean, one thing is clear....On my 64bit OS obviously any 64bit dll I check has FAR less red and errors going on than any 32bit dll I look at. I tried opening all the dlls that are in both data plugin folders that install with KSP, and there is far less things "wrong" with the stuff in the game's 64bit plugin folder....which is obvious and makes sense. With the one exception of that 32bit xinput1_3.dll file. Once I copied the 64bit copy there from my Windows system32 folder they all more or less match now as far as error messages with that program. I believe this may work just as well as messing around in my Windows folder, which I didn't feel good about in the first place to be honest.... So this crash and error I have been dealing with for the last month is probably simply due to what you basically explained about the file path and dlls. I'm running a 64bit OS and trying to run a 64bit version of a game on it, which is normally a fine idea, but while playing the game it is trying to use xinput1_3 periodically and the copy it is told to go to is wrong....so it then goes and looks for the "system wide one" in my system32 folder....and BOOM. CTD. Maybe it's because the other 4 dlls in the plugin folder are not also system wide dll files....I don't know. I also ran a file search for some of those dll files and the only two copies I have are the two installed with the game. So I don't believe there is a system wide version of the other four dlls that are in the game's data plugin folder that are ALSO in my system32 folder.....and I'm not about to start throwing random junk into my windows folder, lol. I was only willing to mess with renaming the xinput1_3.dll because technically it was already in there to begin with... Anyhoo. Like I said there are open bug reports about CTDs while changing scenes from flying back to the VAB/SPH, and at least one guy was throwing errors involving only two modules like I was: xinput1_3.dll and steam_api64.dll, so I added notes to those. I'll try to remember to go back and revise them about doing the reverse solution once I am more sure it is definitely a solution.... Once my game is definitely stable I probably will go back to trying to break it again....lol. Meaning I uninstalled mods that I would like to use, but I uninstalled them because I thought I was using too much RAM or something and this was crashing my game. Now that I see it most likely had nothing to do with too many mods I can add more, lol!

HOLY CRAP JAFO! Is that you? I just referenced The Long Dark in my last post, lol.... I didn't get to check my notifications because I was writing another novella of a post.... I guess you figured out it was me because my name is JoE, I'm a Biochemist, and I still get in forum arguments everywhere I go and hate forums in general....lol. I probably have a particular way of writing as well...I imagine.... Lot of run on sentences and dots.... I also always seem to find myself playing games full of bugs that are driving me insane.... Thanks for that program link, I'll check it out when I get a chance...

Ok, I'll try switching my system32 folder back to the way it was and try moving the file in plugins folder back two steps to the main KSP folder where the actual exe is and see if my stability stays, or if I go back to crashes with xinput1_3.dll involved in my system32 folder, or doing this generates a completely new error I haven't experienced yet. I'll also Googled how to check if a paticular dll is actually 32bit or 64 bit. It doesn't actually seem to say under properties. I assumed it was 32bit purely by going on a dll download site and seeing the correct sizes of xinput1_3.dll for two different versions of directx. Both the 32bit versions the older and the newer were right around 80KB just like BOTH copies in both KSP data\plugins folder. The two versions of the 64bit dll were larger than that. Typically you need a special program to open a dll so you can actually see what it says in the header at the top if it points to a 64bit or x64 header, or a 32bit or x86 header. After digging for a while I found a handy shortcut....since I don't think I posess any software that lets me correctly view the contents of a dll. Someone said even though dlls look like gobbledy gook in Notepad if it says PE followed by L it is x86 or 32 bit and if it says PE followed by d+ (not really a plus sign, it looks more like a crucifix) then it is x64. Sure enough the xinput1_3.dll file in the KSP_64_Data\plugins folder starts with PE then L....so it probably REALLY is a 32bit dll in one of the game's 64bit folders. The four other dlls in that folder all have PE d+ somewhere near the beginning....as they probably should. All 5 of the dlls in the x86 data\plugins folder all start with PE then L as x86 files should... So in my non-expert opinion as non-programmer it does indeed seem that KSP has TWO copies of a 32 bit version of xinput1_3.dll installed with it and and at least one of them should probably be 64 bit.....maybe I should try replacing the one in the x86_data/plugins folder with the 64bit one from my system32 folder? All the other dlls in there are 64 bit....maybe that's all that is actually wrong? I might try that first actually.... I'm actually somewhat familiar with Unity....I mean I don't know how to program it or anything, but I am aware of it's existence. A lot of independent development studios seem to use it. Including the makers of my current favorite survival game, The Long Dark....on Steam. I was playing that game for months before trying this out. As far as being a game and not based on real rocket science...I mean before playing this I didn't know anything about centers of lift and centers of mass or what an apoapsis or periapsis is....so there is some physics involved. It may not be a realistic as real life, but some fundamentals are there. Allegedly Elon Musk likes the game...lol. I considered writing a bug report today, and started with reading the bug reporting forum. Several of the things they would like, I don't have. I don't have screenshots or videos, and I have never used the debug window....so I don't have any of that from my crashes. After reading a bunch of the bug reports it appears no one follows their many requests when reporting bugs anyways. The very first thing it says to do is a search to see if your bug has already been reported. In my opinion it has. At least one or two people already have open reports about frequent crashing when leaving or reverting to the VAB. One guy from three months ago supplied an error log with just TWO modules in it just like mine. One for xinput1_3.dll in his system32 folder and the other being steam_api64.dll in the KSP folder. When I force DX11 instead of OpenGL that's typically all I have in my error report too. So I tacked notes onto those bug reports about trying out my potential fix to see if it helps with their stability.....

I take it Re3 doesn't exist anymore? I can't weld my damn construction clamp-o-trons, because apparently the one on my radio telescope ended up being the root part when I undocked it to then redock it with the intention of welding the ports together. Apparently construction ports only have one situation where they won't weld....when one is the root.... It wasn't the root when I launched it...

Seriously? It was a figure of speech. Toughen up! Life is hard....you're not going to make it if you look for offense where there wasn't any intended. Thanks for all the help! I just uninstalled all of the three mods and reinstalled just the core with MK2 and MK3 since my question was obviously too hurtful for you to simply answer.

Yeah....well there is no real way to verify DirectX installation anymore I looked that up already. It gets updated via Windows update now....I did run windows update to verify there are no updates. The most recent DirectX distribute-able is for DX 11.2 I think, from June 2010. I downloaded and reinstalled that and there was no issue. Before and after that Dxdiag reported no issues through the Windows + R run path..... Thanks for linking that response, I had stopped reading my own thread because it was annoying me....

@Lisias I just re-read this statement and realized why exactly Linuxgurugamer may have linked this post to me. As I stated I am no programmer, and as such I didn't fully understand the relationship between dll files and exe files.....So instead of copying the 32bit xinput1_3.dll to my system32 folder, would KSP_64.exe utilize the one installed with the game in the plugin folder, if I instead copied it into the main folder containing the exe? That's where the the dll files included with Linuxgurugamer's advanced flybywire mod end up.... Basically where do you think the xinput1_3.dll file should go so KSP_x64.exe utilizes the 32bit one that comes with the game instead of trying to default to the 64bit one in my Windows folder.... Or maybe I should copy the 64bit windows xinput1_3.dll into the 64bit KSP_x64_Data\plugins folder? Is this because the 64bit KSP data\plugin folder has a 32bit file that doesn't match the 64bit Windows file? Basically is there a more intelligent way to remedy this situation other than the fix I did?

Thank you for your reply, @Lisias, I very much appreciate being thanked in some way for something instead of being argued with over every piece of a statement I am attempting to make. I wasn't trying to attack Squad or the game(although it clearly seems like I was by several of my argumentative statements). I obviously like the game, or I wouldn't have still been trying to play it and get it to work properly. Due to this issue my game was crashing to desktop after about every 4 or 5 times I was reverting a flight and trying to go back into the VAB to tweak the ship to improve what I was attempting to do in the first place.... Try to imagine just for a moment what it is like to experience that situation. I understand it is difficult to view an experience from someone else's perspective, and I am guilty at sucking at this occasionally myself. So I am new to the game even though it's been available for quite a few years at this point. I have only been playing around a month so far. I don't know very much about rocket science, or designing air craft, so all of this was a pretty big learning curve for me....as it most likely is for a majority of people playing this game. I feel many people probably find this game fairly difficult to master. That's one of the things that appeals to me. I have a Biochemistry degree in real life, so I like to believe I am somewhat intelligent. I'm no rocket scientist....but I AM a scientist of some sort, so I figure if I apply myself I will succeed in a difficult game based on scientific principles.... So I'm trying to learn the game and progress and BAM....every 5-10 minutes of tinkering with my next ship for my next contract I'm looking at my desktop. Then factor in I run about 100 mods from CKAN, so my game LITERALLY takes 5-10 minutes to load up again....So I was spending pretty much as much time watching the loading screen of the game as I was flying rockets and planes. Obviously that's no fun, and I was pulling my hair out, grinding my teeth, and probably giving myself cancer....or at least an ulcer. I had already tried TWICE at this point slowly removing all 100 of my mods 5-10 at a time, because of course WHENEVER you ask anyone in any forum thread for help with this game.... and you get to the part where you tell them you run about 100 mods, the easy answer is to blame it on one of the mods, or my ability to install them properly.... After uninstalling all my mods, on both occasisions I also uninstalled the game completely from Steam and then deleted everything left behind as well. The second time I did this I decided my save MUST be corrupted or something because NOTHING I did would fix this crashing issue or my sorting parts by mass issue, and I felt I pretty much tried EVERYTHING I could think of trying. So that means I ALSO got to start my career over from scratch (I only play career mode), and I had already unlocked the first 6 tiers of the tech tree at that point. I tried cleaning my registry, I tested my RAM with Memtest86, I tried some driver programs that scan all your installed drivers and recommed updates for ANY drivers that are not up to date. I ALMOST bought 16GB of new RAM for $105 from Newegg because linuxgurugamer suggested my RAM might be bad. The only thing I had left to try at this point (in my opinion), was learn a programming language and rewrite the game myself, or buy a new computer....or I guess I could have just given up trying to play this and just play something else.....I'm VERY stubborn though, and I have never considered myself a quitter.... So obviously all of above had already wasted A LOT of my time at this point, and I was in a pretty sour mood to begin with. Despite this my first impulse was to SHARE what I discovered with the modded technical support forum just on the off chance I could help ONE person, and prevent them from grinding their teeth, ripping their hair out, and getting an ulcer....because their game is crashing more than they are playing it. I didn't come here to get in an argument about who's fault this is, or what exactly the minimum recommended specs for the game are, or whether or not DirectX is required to play it. I'm a scientist....I make observations, collect data, and share results. That's the one thing I am good at. That was all I was trying to do here. I just wanted my damn game to work so I could frigging play it. After two days ago I honestly had no plans of returning to this thread again based on the initial response from the first two KSP fanboys. Their response is the typical and expected response when you post anything contrary about anything on any forum. It is why I tend to not participate in forum communities in general. Frankly it's too aggravating and not worth my time. The only reason I came back to respond to you, is because I was talking to Linuxgurugamer about my findings in his mod thread for using an Xbox controller, "Advanced flybywire," and after I posted to him he linked your post to me. So I came to thank you for your response! Thank you! Based on your first sentence I have no plans to read any posts above yours, because I'm sure I'll just get annoyed and block more daft people that have no business talking to me about anything anyway. So if any devs wish to speak to me, or any gamers wish to thank me because I actually helped them in some way, by figuring out an issue that was impacting them, they can feel free to mail me through the forum. If anyone wants to quote this post line by line and refute every sentence I just typed, how about you just keep your opinion to yourself, or argue with someone other than me? I honestly don't have the time or patience for you, I'd rather be adding to my first space station that I just placed 110KM over Kerbin, than agruing with you over DirectX files. Thanks anyways!

Hello @linuxgurugamer, So I believe I finally solved all my crashing issues with the game. I have been able to run my game for hours on end while alt-tabbing and doing things in the background....like looking stuff up on the Internet, and then returning to the game and playing for more hours....not one crash to desktop. No matter how many ships I build or how many times I revert flights back to the VAB/SPH (that was typically when my game would decide to crash). I solved it because the only thing consistent with every crash dump file generated was xinput1_3.dll in the error log generated with the crash dump file. Xinput1_3.dll was always the first module listed in the error log. I sent you one of my error logs several days ago. I typically only had one to three modules listed and xinput1_3.dll was the only consistent module. One of the mods I have consistently run since I started playing the game is this one. I do so because I cannot fly planes well without some sort of stick to fly with. I am not a fan of arrow keys for flying a plane, or w, a, s, d.... I'm not writing this here because this mod is causing the crashing. The crashes happened without this mod installed. They happen without any mods installed. Now that I isolated the issue to xinput1_3.dll, I've done some Internet searching and if you Google just "xinput crashing game" you'll find that simply having an xbox controller plugged into your computer has somehow caused some games to crash historically (I was not aware of this). I want to say I have had crashes without it plugged in that still involved xinput1_3.dll, but I can't honestly remember for sure at this point. I typically just leave my xbox controller plugged in regardless if I am using it or not, because so many computer games support one at this point that I use it frequently. Once I started pinpointing this as the issue I did a file search on my C drive for xinput1_3.dll and realized it was installed in several different places. There is normally an around 80KB 32bit version in syswow64 and an around 105KB 64bit version in your system32 Windows folders if you have Windows 10. I noticed KSP has two identical 80KB versions(meaning they are both probably 32 bit) in the data/plugin folders for both the 32bit and 64bit data folders. I found it odd that the 64bit version of the game has a potentially 32bit file in it. Some other games I have installed from Steam also seem to supply an xinput1_3.dll, like Witcher 3. What I still don't grasp is why in ALL my crash logs it lists the file location of xinput1_3.dll as C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM32. Since system32 is the 64bit folder for windows the file size is listed as the larger version and says it's 107368 bytes. Why it doesn't make sense to me is as I stated KSP has two identical copies of it included when you install it, and they are both around 80KB. Shouldn't the game be running the xinput1_3.dll file installed with the game and not the one in my Windows folder? What I ended up doing because of this (since I don't program or know how to tell KSP to utilize one file instead of another file) is rename the 105KB xinput1_3.dll fille in my Windows system32 folder and then copy the 80KB xinput1_3.dll file from the KSP_x64_data\plugins folder into my system32 folder. I understand this is a really poor decision because you shouldn't mess with your Windows files in general. It's especially bad in this case because as I stated the game seems to have two copies of the 32bit version and I just copied one to my 64bit Windows folder. I imagine I will need to reverse this change if I want my xbox controller to work or not crash other 64bit games I play in the future. That being said, since I did that the game has been totally stable despite me having so many mods installed. I did notice it takes several seconds longer when I return to the VAB/SPH now, but I can live with it taking several seconds to load the VAB if it's not crashing to desktop instead. One of the threads I have found since making this change that was about xinput crashing games in general recommend running the game in Windows 8 compatibility mode. I suppose I should revert the file swap I made and see if that works instead....If that worked it could be less foolish in the long run. To be honest though, I have never had much success with windows compatability mode actually making games function better. It seems to be pretty much hit or miss, and often doesn't do anything....at least for me the times I have tried using it on a game shortcut due to the game frequently crashing or something. One of the reasons I wrote all this here was to ask if you know of a way to make this mod use the xinput1_3.dll file included with KSP. I noticed this mod puts some dll files in the main KSP folder instead of in the GameData folder....Do you think it would use it if I copied a copy of xinput1_3.dll there instead? I suppose I could just try that instead of asking your opinion, lol.... I also just wanted to get back to you about seeming to solve my crashing in general. Since you manage so many mods for KSP and so many issues can arise with the game, I figured you enjoy finding solutions to things and solving problems in general.... Having the game crash to desktop after playing for 5-10 minutes is a fairly aggravating issue....especially since the game takes about that long to reload after it crashes....I was about at the point where I was just going to be done playing the game at all....I have like 200 other Steam games I could be playing instead....

I get some flutter with some wings without any of those mods....If I understand what you are talking about.... You mean you want the wings to kinda flap up and down? (I think) That happens to me with some longer wings....it depends on the wings. I notice it more the longer the wing, but particularly with the bigger longer solid wings I unlocked later in the game.... It didn't do it much with the initial wings unless I stuck several together to extend them. I remember I had to attach wire struts to some of them to keep them stable....

1.4.4 broke a lot of mods....1.4.5 is coming out soon, but I don't know that it will fix that. I'd tell you to roll back to 1.4.3 via the beta tab in Steam, but that might make any saves you opened in 1.4.4 incompatible including your persistent save....so don't do it unless you have backup saves of a point you are willing to go back to....or a manual save that you are willing to roll back to that you haven't loaded since 1.4.4... For now so you at least have regular maneuver nodes, I'd just uninstall precise node.... You could try "Precise Maneuver" or "Astrogator" instead....they are similar but different to Precise node and claim to be compatible up to version 1.4.99 and 1.4.8 respectively....

Since you didn't complete the fifteen steps you are expected to do to receive help, it's doubtful you'll get much assistance.... I'll take a stab in the dark from a brief Google search for "Ksp radiators timewarp bug." Do you have FAR installed...That crazy aerodynamics mod? If so uninstall it....that might fix it....

Well that's unfortunate....why have threads for technical support if the people who designed the game and are the most qualified to offer technical support don't do so? As far as him being helpful, he has offered no solutions in my two threads requesting solutions. All he has done is taken my posts and deconstructed them into statements and then did his best to refute or say something contrary to each statement I made. I call that the opposite of helpful and it is why there is an ignore function on most forums. In the how to get help thread it tells you how to go about finding and uploading files in order to receive any help. I don't recall it saying "You must file a bug report or no one will help you." My issues are not being caused by the mods as both are present without them, you would know that if you actually took the time to read my posts instead of jumping on the fanboy wagon to defend the devs and your forum buddies. Lastly as I told your buddy, why have a modded technical support if this is a burden and an insult to the devs? Wow two ignores in a day! To think all I had to do was ask for assistance. What a crew...

Yeah it pretty much is the same.... I think you are just one of those annoying people who likes to argue for arguments sake.... DirectX 10 comes with Windows Vista. Learn to Google... Shader Model 3.0 was first supported with DirectX 9.0c....which was released in like 2004....

It's happening with stock parts too. Mostly C7 aerospace division. I've given up on getting an answer. I'm not angry. It's just pathetic. I already wrote to several mod threads and no one had an answer there either. Constant crashing and general unplayability of the game takes priority over not being able to sort any parts in any useable way.

A lot of people run a lot of mods, that's why they have a modded technical support. Also this is a reference to another situation where I requested assistance almost a month ago and got no response from anyone. In that thread that is still the case. It also crashes stock, it just takes slightly longer. All you have to do to recreate it is play the game....it eventually crashes to desktop it's just a matter of time. When I tried to solve my last issue no one helped me with, I uninstalled all my mods a few at a time and then eventually uninstalled the whole game, and then deleted everything left behind. I reinstalled the game stock and it still crashed. It's probably because of this issue I found. If that is a link of the requirements, it says DX10....DX10 IS DirectX. You can't really have a game with graphics that runs at this point without it (well there's OpenGL...). Directx 9 has been installed with games for the last two decades. Directx12 is supplied automatically by Windows now, and there is no stand alone redistributable for it. It updates via Windows update. The most recent distributable version of Directx is from June of 2010. The game doesn't fully support dx11 or 12 which is ridiculous for a game from this decade seeing as DirectX 11 came out in the first quarter of 2011. This still doesn't answer the question of why the game installs with two copies of a directx file that it doesn't seem to utilize, yet it is running the one from my Windows folder. Or why both copies it supplies are of the 32 bit variety, even though one of the folders with the file is for the 64bit version of the game....

Hello, I have been reading everything I can find about Kerbal Space Program and crashing. There are NUMEROUS threads about it over the last FOUR years, but nothing in any of the threads here, or on Steam, or various reddits have done anything to fix the problem. I run the 64bit version. I have 64bit Windows 10 Home Edition. I have an Intel Core i7 2.6Ghz CPU. I have 16GB of 1600mhz RAM. I have an NVIDIA Geforce GTX 980M with another 4GB of RAM. My rig can run Skyrim or Fallout 4 with pretty much maximum graphical settings without regular crashing and with smooth gaming. The graphics in KSP are nothing to write home about, so the total lack of stability is pretty sad. Now, I DO run about 100 mods, but I get them through CKAN and they are installed properly and with very few exceptions they are of the appropriate version to match the 1.4.3 KSP version I am running. The handful that are a for an earlier 1.4.x, I asked in the corresponding thread if they are compatible and the answer was yes. Despite this my game was regularly crashing after trying to return to or exit the VAB/SPH after a flight. After leaving and entering the ship building buildings several times my game would crash. Since the game takes about 10 minutes to load with a lot of mods, waiting for it to load over and over to play for about 5 minutes is pretty damn tedious. I was spending more time watching the loading screen than playing the game. I have about 20 crash.dmp files that I have no way to open or read myself and taking the time to zip them with the Output_log, error log, and KSP log files and then uploading them to dropbox to post a link here... and then get no response from any of the Devs is obviously not worth anyone's time. So I did my best to try to solve this on my own.... Out of all of the Error reports generated with the crash.dmp files my RAM was averaging 50%-60%, but despite this Linuxgurugamer suggested I was running out of RAM or my RAM was bad. I put Memtest86 on a USB drive and ran multiple passes.....my RAM is not bad and has no errors. Since more then half of it isn't being used by the game or the mods, I don't understand how I could be running out of it. I don't have anything else running in the background. I disabled all my Windows startup processes. I've tried forcing OpenGL, DirectX11, and DirectX12. It crashes with all of them. When I use OpenGL I get an additional module/file listed in the error report: When I don't force OpenGL I get the same two modules listed typically: The one thing that is consistent in EVERY crash I have had is I get KSP_x64.exe caused an Access Violation (0xc0000005), and Xinput1_3.dll is involved. I then did a file search for xinput1_3.dll and noticed it is located in several different places in my C drive. I also noticed that it came in different file sizes. So I Googled about it on the Internet. I learned that there is a 32bit and 64bit version of it. The 64 bit file size is about 105KB and the 32bit version is about 80KB. As you can see from my second spoiler above it is using the larger file size which makes sense because I am running the 64bit version of KSP.....I also learned that System32 is the 64bit program folder for Windows and Syswow64 is the 32bit folder.....that doesn't make sense to me and seems counter-intuitive.... What also doesn't make sense to me after doing my file search for that file, is WHY Kerbal Space program comes with two copies of it, one in KSP_Data\Plugins and one in KSP_x64_Data\Plugins and when I run the game with the KSP_x64 shortcut on my desktop it uses NEITHER of them? If you look at what is says in the error above it is using MY Windows copy of it in C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM32\xinput1_3.dll. Why is it using the one in my windows folder when the game comes with it's own two copies? Then I noticed BOTH the copies installed with KSP are of the 80KB variety, which as I stated is most likely the 32bit version of the file....WHY would the 64bit version of the game come with a 32bit .dll file....one it isn't even utilizing... So I tried something crazy. I went in my windows\system32 folder and renamed the xinput1_3.dll there xinput1_3_fail.dll, and then I copied and pasted a copy of the file from the KSP_x64_data\Plugin folder into my windows\system32 folder.....which is something REALLY stupid to do, and I REALLY need to remember I did that, because it will probably break every other 64bit game I try play. So far my game hasn't crashed once and I intentionally went in and out of the VAB and SPH buildings like 20 times each and launched and reverted flights like 20 times.....something I could normally get away with like 4 times and the game still hasn't crashed. So now the 64bit version of the game is most likely utilizing a 32bit dll located my 64bit Windows folder.... People say KSP 64bit version is unstable....maybe it would run better if the game actually utilized the files that are installed with it.... I noticed there are several other .dll files listed in the Plugin folders.....is KSP not actually running those files either? How do I direct the KSP executable to run the actual dll files that come installed with the game? I don't think that is something I can do on my end without learning programing language and Unity and rewriting the game myself.... Could one of the Squad Devs please patch the game to actually utilize the dll files that come installed with the game, and ensure they are the ones in the correct corresponding plugin folder in one of the future updates please? This is a list of all the .dll files in the plugin folder that MAY not be being utilized by KSP but probably should be: (I am basing this assumption on the fact it wasn't using the xinput1_3.dll in the plugin folder.....but maybe it is.....how can I tell? Maybe this was all because the 64bit plugin folder has the 32bit dll and windows 64bit is running the 64 bit version and this was some kind of mismatch error.....and now that I have the same file in both places they match now....I really don't know what's happening for sure. All I know is doing this made my game MUCH more stable in general) CSteamworks DIWrapper lingoona.grammar.kerbal xinput1_3 XIWrapper Hope this helps someone else suffering from frequent crashing......! JoE Smash NOTICE: FOR THOSE OF YOU JUST READING MY ORIGINAL POST, I FOUND A BETTER FIX.... Go to your Windows/system32 folder and find xinput1_3.dll and copy it. Go to your KerbalSpaceProgram/KSP_x64_Data/Plugins folder and delete, rename, or relocate the copy of xinput1_3.dll that is already in that folder. Copy the copy from your Windows/System32 folder to the plugins folder I just directed you to. This also seems to fix the issue and you do not have to mess with your Windows files....which is never smart....

Thanks for all the amazing help devs! If you don't have a clue what determines part sorting in the VAB/SPH that's pretty sad seeing as you wrote the code for the game. It would be swellzies if you answered any of the questions I asked like a month ago.... I included all the files you ask for.....and then waited patiently....

No worries. I only know where it is because every mod designer expects you to find it if you want help.... And then they still have no idea what's wrong and don't help you....

You can right click on programs in Steam and set it to "not updated until you launch the game." Then you can right click on it again, go to the betas tab and set it to an earlier version of the game that was stable with all your mods. Then you can open the game folder find the ksp.exe or the 64bit version of the exe, right click on it and send a copy of the short cut to desktop and double click on that to launch the game with Steam closed....so you never lauch the game from Steam in the first place.....thusly it never updates. Lastly if you haven't run the game a bunch of times since this happened, there's a backup save folder in the save game folder that jas like five recent backup copies of your save. Delete or move your normal persistent.sfs file and copy and paste one of the backup saves into the save folder where the one was that you deleted/moved. Then rename it to persistent.sfs by deleting the string of numbers in brackets and the space....so it just says "persistent.sfs. If you have no backup saves left from before this happening, hopefully you have a manual save that you didn't corrupt by opening it in the updated version of the game.... Don't know why someone couldn't have told you any of this earlier....

The output log isn't in that location....no idea why the @5thHorseman would tell you to look there. It's in C:\users\the name you log into windows as\appdata\locallow\squad\kerbal space program.... It's in there along with your crashes folder and a unity folder. The crash folder should have your crash.dmp and error log files in folders by date and time of the crash. Sometimes those can be useful for Squad members to diagnose.....not that anyone from Squad has EVER responded to my request for crashing assistance....

For MK2 and MK3 Expansions on CKAN "Interstellar Fuel Switch Core" is necessary. What should be present with just the core installation? When I updated it recently through CKAN I think it added all the crap that the full installation gets. I believe I have a conflict with configurable containers....I don't believe you can have both installed at the same time....so now I need to go in and delete the files and folders that shouldn't be in there with just the core installation.....

Hello @Nertea I typically use CKAN and thusly I have no idea how to install this correctly.... First your OP says you don't support CKAN.....but it's on there. By default CKAN wants you to install Retractable Engines and CryoTanks. I don't know why I need CryoTanks if I plan to use the Liquid Fuel patch with the engines so they use Liquid fuel like the Atomic Engines already in game.... Lastly I don't know where the LiquidFuel.cfg goes exactly even after reading your OP and the Read Me...? It says copy it from the Extras folder into the "appropriate folder." Which folder is that the Patches Folder? Also it looks like one of the files in the patches folder messes with some of the recycled parts nuclear engines....like Lightbulb Atomic Engine (which I use a lot). Can I just delete those cfgs if I don't want this mod to mess those stock parts? Lastly near future propulsion does kind of the same thing (I think). There's a cfg the patches folder that "nerfs" stock ion engines.....what if I don't want that to happen? Delete it? PS Your mods are awesome in general.....they seem to just be a little over my head is all.....they do a lot of things and you seem to be very knowledgeable about using module manager to tweak everything....I don't really know how to do stuff...lol. Thanks, JoE Smash

MK2 and MK3 expansions are two of my "must have" mods!

NICE! I'd leave a post on that thread (if it's not dead) and see if the dude who works on that one can fix it.....hopefully he/she can....