The Positive Forum Movement (Updated 4 December 2015)

[thereaverofdarkness2]

4 minutes ago, 5thHorseman said:

• The Iron Rule: Do unto others before they can do unto you.

No that's not a good rule. Especially for this thread.

• The Copper Rule: Do unto others as you would do unto them.
• The Iron Rule: Do unto others before they can do unto you.
• The Lead Rule: Do unto others and let God sort 'em out!

XD

Edited June 28, 2016 by thereaverofdarkness2

[worir4]

Every now and then, this thread needs a bump. Now is one of those times.

 

Please be nice guys and read the OP.

[Souper]

On 2/25/2015 at 2:24 PM, Deddly said:

UPDATED 4 DECEMBER 2015

Just like every other community, when people disagree on something, there is a very real possibility that the whole tone turns extremely negative, even insulting. Now I will say that the general populatation of these forums appears to be somewhat more mature in the way they deal with each other than the average online community I have come accross, but it cannot be denied that there is also a certain amount of negativity whenever a big change comes along or if a decision is made that some do not agree with. Many Devnotes, for example, have replies that are extremely negative towards Squad and other users. Or when a feature is implemented in a way we don't like (such as the change to new forum software), we have a tendency to speak very unkindly about it. But then there are also some good examples of people disagreeing with each other but being very polite about it. The Positive Forum Movement has been around for a while now, and it's good to see how some people are actively looking for ways to change, not the opinions, but the attitudes of others.

I'm sure most of us would like the forum to be even more positive, so what can we do about it? Telling negative people not to be negative is unlikely to help, but there is a way that just might. Here are a few simple things we can keep in mind, which - little by little - can make a difference.

• If someone attacks you (or someone else) for your opinion, spelling, design or anything else, don't tell them off. Instead, make it your goal to cheer them up. Try asking for suggestions on how to improve
• If someone picks at you for something small and insignificant they don't like you doing, something that's not even against the rules; tell them you're thankful for the suggestion and you will try to think of it next time you post. Be careful not to sound patronizing or sarcastic; it must be sincere.
• If you feel strongly about something, don't give others the feeling that you think your opinion is more important than theirs. Instead, calmly explain how you feel and why you feel that way - others will be more likely to take your opinion seriously that way
• If you see someone "put out a fire" by replying well to a provocative comment, click the "Like this" button for that post and tell them in a private message why - it will encourage them to do it again
• Most importantly, no matter how you are treated by someone else, treat them the way you believe they would like to be treated.

None of this means we should just be quiet and accept things we don't like. It just means that there is a better way of getting our point accross than being negative or writing harsh words about it. Constructive criticism can actually come accross as very positive if we put some thought into it.

To sum it up, be the person you would like others to be.

Will it work? No doubt about it. Even if a single person does this just one time, it will make a difference.

 

On 2/25/2015 at 2:24 PM, Deddly said:

None of this means we should just be quiet and accept things we don't like. It just means that there is a better way of getting our point accross than being negative or writing harsh words about it. Constructive criticism can actually come accross as very positive if we put some thought into it.

 

On 2/25/2015 at 2:24 PM, Deddly said:

accross

 

[Deddly]

Ha, thanks for the spell-check

[Red Iron Crown]

Alright, some posts that are drastically offtopic and not positive at all have been removed. If the user who wants to make an apology wishes to do so I suggest they do it by PM to the offended party, in public is not the place for it.

[adsii1970]

On 10/6/2016 at 1:14 PM, worir4 said:

Every now and then, this thread needs a bump. Now is one of those times.

Please be nice guys and read the OP.

I agree. Here lately I have become disheartened by the personal attacks that have been happening on the forum.

I do hope that @Deddly does not mind, but I used my graphics art skills and created a very crude, yet simple, image that I intend to put in my signature. I invite you to do the same, and then take the image and make it into a link back to this forum thread.

-- Edited ten minutes after originally posted --

I understand there are a variety of forum users - the variety is what makes this forum unique. Within those that I keep in touch with, there are some form South America, Europe, and then, a little more specific, the United States and Canada. I enjoy the fellowship over what we have in common - the love of Kerbal Space Program. I also enjoy learning of the differences in cultures, ideas, and approaches to handling problems that come up in the game. For the most part, the experience on the forum has been positive.

However, since the console users have joined the forum, there seems to be a lot of snipping between PC/MAC and console users of the game. Unfortunately, these actions soon spread like wildfire and has expanded beyond those two groups of KSP users. I've even seen a few forum members try to bring their personal problems onto the forum, then get offended when others bash them for their negativity. My biggest problem is that I normally attempt to intercede in moments like that - mainly because It's not easy when forum users feel that they don't matter to the general forum population.

I've got a simple rule that I do... if you're nice enough to follow me (and you actually believe I am all that...), then I will reciprocate and follow you. It's only fair and in my opinion, right. If you need a friend to listen, just as I do in real life, I offer my ear to those that need it. A long time ago, I added a simple prayer to my daily life - "God, if there is going to be change in this world, then let it begin with me..." 

 

Edited November 15, 2016 by adsii1970

[monstah]

It's that time of the year again, when this thread needs a friendly bump.

Hey, everyone! 1.2.2 came out. Mods are mostly working fine, and modders are working on the ones that aren't.

Good times.

(I really hope the XBOX/PS4 crowd gets to have a proper gaming experience anytime soon, too, or at least get a refund. After that, I guess most pitchforks will have been retired, right? Peace in the land of KSP, y'all)

[TheCardinal]

On 15-11-2016 at 3:05 PM, adsii1970 said:

...

I do hope that @Deddly does not mind, but I used my graphics art skills and created a very crude, yet simple, image that I intend to put in my signature. I invite you to do the same, and then take the image and make it into a link back to this forum thread.

...

I fully support this thread! Thank you, @adsii1970 for creating the image. After some troubles, I managed to add the image to my signature. As there are probably a lot of people who have only a very limited knowledge of HTML and such (like me), it would be helpfull if you could post the lines of code which are required to make it into a link to this thread. In my opinion this thread doesn't receive the attention it deserves. Adding the code to the signature could improve that.

 

Edited February 19, 2017 by TheCardinal

[Guest]

On 6/28/2016 at 6:01 PM, thereaverofdarkness2 said:

• The Copper Rule: Do unto others as you would do unto them.
• The Iron Rule: Do unto others before they can do unto you.
• The Lead Rule: Do unto others and let God sort 'em out!

XD

The Wooden Stick Rule: Ooga booga, me get stick, me bash other head

[Mrcarrot]

On 2/26/2015 at 10:24 AM, Deddly said:

I would be in danger of breaching Forum Rule 4.3

 

4.2

[Deddly]

22 minutes ago, Mrcarrot said:

4.2

That's true, the number changed since 2015 when I wrote that comment

[monstah]

You know what? I like the new forum.

[stibbons]

Heck, I liked it before the inevitable round of layout tweaks.

[cubinator]

Ooh look, moderators have green names on mobile now.

[scottadges]

On 6/28/2016 at 4:01 PM, thereaverofdarkness2 said:

• The Copper Rule: Do unto others as you would do unto them.
• The Iron Rule: Do unto others before they can do unto you.
• The Lead Rule: Do unto others and let God sort 'em out!

XD

Being slightly obtuse and saying to myself "I wonder if 'The Copper Rule' and 'The Iron Rule' is from something, like a TV show or some reference?"...

I hopped on over to Google and this is what I got:

The Lead and Copper Rule (LCR) is a United States federal regulation which limits the concentration of lead and copper allowed in public drinking water at the consumer's tap, as well as limiting the permissible amount of pipe corrosion occurring due to the water itself.

Lead and Copper Rule - Wikipedia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead_and_Copper_Rule

 

I mean, sure yeah 'Lead and Copper in Water = Bad' 

Not what I was looking for Google! 

[YNM]

 

On 9/6/2017 at 5:17 AM, stibbons said:

Heck, I liked it before the inevitable round of layout tweaks.

It's a matter of colour, dear. They're too white for our dark retinas.

[stibbons]

10 hours ago, YNM said:

 

It's a matter of colour, dear. They're too white for our dark retinas.

It looked fine. 

[Mrcarrot]

On 9/2/2017 at 2:22 PM, Deddly said:

That's true, the number changed since 2015 when I wrote that comment

 

Okay, I guess I shouldn't be correcting posts from 2015
 

[Casualnaut]

My name is probably not important, but I approve of this post.

[InterplanetJanet]

Bumpage!

I played World Of Tanks for a while... and oy vey, that forum can be worse than the battles.  Idiot husband keeps reading them, though... and while he may have Tier 8 tanks in his stable, he's only about Tier 2 in Snark and Insult.

[NSEP]

4 hours ago, InterplanetJanet said:

Bumpage!

I played World Of Tanks for a while... and oy vey, that forum can be worse than the battles.  Idiot husband keeps reading them, though... and while he may have Tier 8 tanks in his stable, he's only about Tier 2 in Snark and Insult.

All other forums feel like warzones compared to this forum, i agree. One of the the mods on the Flat Earth forum just moves and locks threads with no context at all. And the speculative evolution community is just, plain, boring. The Minecraft forum is very big has and wide in range of people, but 90% of all the posts are people asking for help. And the other 9% is people complaining about the game, the other 1% is like a less polite version of the KSP forum.

[HansonKerman]

This is a cool, definitely necessary thread. Lots of threads about tiny bugs turn into big, Squad-insulting, war zones. I'd like forums to be more peaceful.

[HansonKerman]

You should just be patient.

[Deddly]

With the recent discussion of negativity vs constructive criticism, I thought I'd collect a few examples of what I feel is constructive critism I've seen recently. Note that I don't necessarily agree or disagree with the arguments, I'm just impressed with the quality of the criticism. I thought I'd bring it in here to avoid sending that thread even more off topic:
 

Quote

I didn't have time to say this before but credit given where credit is due thank you for acknowledging this problem.

Now all we need to due is get you to adopt pork-a-like elements (cause if you are gonna go through the effort to condense the layers of ksp's art style geology to two layers why not go for one layer?)

I like this post by @passinglurker because it begins by acknowledging the effort being made. The commendation is honest and there is no sarcasm in it, which serves to temper the criticism to come. The second line is simple, to the point, respectfully and clearly saying what he feels could be done, along with a reason why. It's perhaps not perfect, but there is no insult hidden in this post and nothing intended to make the reader feel inferior. Good stuff.

 

Quote

Standardizing and optimizing parts can only be a good thing, but it would be nice if at least some of them could use those sweet'n'shiny PBR shaders...

This one, by @StrandedonEarth was simply brilliant. So much said in a single line of text. It's positive but that doesn't mean he has to sing Squad's praises. I read something like that and I can feel myself coming around to his side of the argument.

 

Quote

I would love more parts that look optimized for the harsh vacuum of space with silver or gold foil look, like the small xenon and LFO tanks.  I've mentioned this before; I think having a dual variant family of the 1.25m FL-T (or even 1.875m tanks if we were getting really ambitious) in gold mylar would be interesting for building vacuum-only ships or landers.  Beyond just the visual appeal of having gold mylar-wrapped tank vessels lacking the rigid black-and-white rocket hulls, you could adjust the stats of each variant to make it a calculated trade off during VAB assembly.

When compared to an existing FL-T400, a 1.25m diameter gold-wrapped cylinder with rounded ends (like the R-11 Baguette) would have lower mass, but also lower impact and heat tolerance, while occupying the same length and diameter space of the FL-T400.

@Raptor9 did a great job with this one. See how he makes it subjective by saying "I would love..." instead of "You should make more..." or "When are we going to get...?"
It's a small thing, but it changes the entire tone of the post and makes the whole thread so much more enjoyable to read.

 

Quote

I really like the endeavor to standardize the textures of all stock parts. Hope to see more!

@Enceos could have said "Well that's great and all that, but what about this and this and this parts??" But instead, he chose to make a positive post that makes the same basic request without diluting the commendation. This is a good example.

 

 

So this is what I mean when I talk about Constructive Criticism. We can by all means be critical, but if we take a few moments to read our own posts with a critical eye before hitting the "Submit Reply" button, I think we're all going to enjoy talking with each other much more.

[adsii1970]

43 minutes ago, Deddly said:

So this is what I mean when I talk about Constructive Criticism. We can by all means be critical, but if we take a few moments to read our own posts with a critical eye before hitting the "Submit Reply" button, I think we're all going to enjoy talking with each other much more.

It goes beyond this, @Deddly... It means treating others the way we want others to treat us.

There have been times I have had to *gently remind* other forum members, usually through private messages, it's ok to disagree with a mod maker's concept, or a fan fic author's work, or some general statement about an offhanded post or two. But it is never okay to take one's disagreement to the level of being a personal attack. It just makes for bad forum mojo. The moderators work hard to keep this forum a happy place and overly critical and personally mean statements simply don't achieve those results. And there's so few moderators and so many of us non-moderators... we can help the moderators do their job if we just take a bit of effort to really consider what we are posting and the effect it may have on someone else.