CobaltWolf Posted November 22, 2021 Author Share Posted November 22, 2021 15 hours ago, KeaKaka said: Uh, @CobaltWolf while you may have fixed the animation on the J-2 A-2, the texture's now borked. Same goes for the underside of the AJ-260 nosecone. Ah, easy fix. I forgot to change the material in Unity (since the yellow/white throttle glow material only lives in there). Can you tell which camera angle I was using when I pushed those two parts in game? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clamp-o-Tron Posted November 22, 2021 Share Posted November 22, 2021 17 hours ago, Jcking said: Big Apollo was an enlarged 9 man Apollo CM originally proposed as the Eros flyby vehicle and is similar in concept to Big Gemini, except for sharing about as much with it’s parent capsule about as Orion does with Apollo. The original paper on the crewed Eros flyby (https://commons.erau.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=3070&context=space-congress-proceedings) makes very few comments on the reentry vehicle itself while providing detail on its service module. However, based on the diagrams, this has the same dimensions of the Apollo CM, while fitting 6 crew inside (referring to some other paper which I'm unable to find). Perhaps we've found two different Eros flyby concepts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jcking Posted November 22, 2021 Share Posted November 22, 2021 57 minutes ago, Clamp-o-Tron said: The original paper on the crewed Eros flyby (https://commons.erau.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=3070&context=space-congress-proceedings) makes very few comments on the reentry vehicle itself while providing detail on its service module. However, based on the diagrams, this has the same dimensions of the Apollo CM, while fitting 6 crew inside (referring to some other paper which I'm unable to find). Perhaps we've found two different Eros flyby concepts? No, I mistakenly said it was a 9 crew vehicle instead of a 6 crew vehicle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pappystein Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 (edited) 22 hours ago, Jcking said: Big Apollo was an enlarged 9 man Apollo CM originally proposed as the Eros flyby vehicle and is similar in concept to Big Gemini, except for sharing about as much with it’s parent capsule about as Orion does with Apollo. "Big Apollo" is not the official name it was covered under. That is the four man Eros Command Module (ECM.) And while the links below are for the 1966 proposal. This wasn't the final iteration of the design but rather the easiest to find data for. https://www.wired.com/2012/05/manned-asteroid-flyby-mission-1966/ https://commons.erau.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?referer=&httpsredir=1&article=3070&context=space-congress-proceedings Most of the "Big Apollo" references are actually McDonnell Astronautics references to a "Bigger Apollo type" that was shortened to Big Apollo. Most of the drawings of "Big Apollo" actually show a Gemini derived windows because of this! These "Bigger Apollo" were used to compare and contrast with the Big Gemini to show why Big Gemini was the better long term investment for NASA. EG McDonnell report F873 dated 10/31/1967 This is the "Bigger Apollo" from the McDonnell report above: Note there is no nose Probe. Also the Gemini style roundy/drooping eye windows... and the Ring and Fork aft docking with no propulsion. Like Big Gemini this would have only had RCS for propulsion. And since this is a *McDonnell Astronautics* design, it is hardly representative of what a North American Aviation "Big Apollo" would look like! Edited November 23, 2021 by Pappystein Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staticalliam7 Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 7 minutes ago, Pappystein said: "Big Apollo" is not the official name it was covered under. That is the four man Eros Command Module (ECM.) And while the links below are for the 1966 proposal. This wasn't the final iteration of the design but rather the easiest to find data for. https://www.wired.com/2012/05/manned-asteroid-flyby-mission-1966/ https://commons.erau.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?referer=&httpsredir=1&article=3070&context=space-congress-proceedings Most of the "Big Apollo" references are actually McDonnell Astronautics references to a "Bigger Apollo type" that was shortened to Big Apollo. Most of the drawings of "Big Apollo" actually show a Gemini derived windows because of this! These "Bigger Apollo" were used to compare and contrast with the Big Gemini to show why Big Gemini was the better long term investment for NASA. EG McDonnell report F873 dated 10/31/1967 Wow, this Eros mission proposals are really interesting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pappystein Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 1 minute ago, Staticalliam7 said: Wow, this Eros mission proposals are really interesting I am not certain about the Hydrolox engines for the ESM (Eros Service Module) but everything else can be well built with existing Venus Flyby. Later on the Eros and Venus missions were merged and were to use the same launch hardware and differ only in the experiments to be carried. Also I should add, Douglas studied a way to dock Saturn S-IVB or MS-IVB S-IVC (NASA) end to end to create a boost train. The Venus/Eros flyby vehicles would launch and convert the wetlab while in orbit to dry lab. Then a second Saturn (potentially a Saturn S-ID but more likely a Saturn II INT-18) Would launch with a Dock equipped S-IVB upper stage that would expend nearly zero propellant to dock with the Wetlab's engine INSIDE the docking assembly... And then this new second S-IVB stage would boost the Wetlab to it's Eros or Venus flyby destination. Potentially they calculated they could use upto FOUR S-IVBs in a row to boost a manned mission out of LEO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jcking Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 17 minutes ago, Pappystein said: Also I should add, Douglas studied a way to dock Saturn S-IVB or MS-IVB S-IVC (NASA) end to end to create a boost train. The Venus/Eros flyby vehicles would launch and convert the wetlab while in orbit to dry lab. Then a second Saturn (potentially a Saturn S-ID but more likely a Saturn II INT-18) Would launch with a Dock equipped S-IVB upper stage that would expend nearly zero propellant to dock with the Wetlab's engine INSIDE the docking assembly... And then this new second S-IVB stage would boost the Wetlab to it's Eros or Venus flyby destination. Potentially they calculated they could use upto FOUR S-IVBs in a row to boost a manned mission out of LEO There were a couple of concepts that involved docking S-IVc stages together, the NAA Mars or Venus flyby vehicle used either an S-II refueled by (what looks like) Lockheed tankers or docked S-IVc stages for earth departure, and the MORL mars flyby vehicle used 3 S-IVc stages docked identically to the configuration depicted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clamp-o-Tron Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 19 minutes ago, Pappystein said: I am not certain about the Hydrolox engines for the ESM (Eros Service Module) but everything else can be well built with existing Venus Flyby. Later on the Eros and Venus missions were merged and were to use the same launch hardware and differ only in the experiments to be carried. You could probably get away with tweakscaling for the ESM (Gemini maybe?) and using the RL10-A3 as prescribed. Other than that, the only missing parts are those cool solar arrays (which would probably not stay like that TBH). Skylab (dry) makes an excellent mission module, and the mass of the OWS itself might just work out to be the same as the ~70,000 lbs cited here. I’m not really sure though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pappystein Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 29 minutes ago, Jcking said: There were a couple of concepts that involved docking S-IVc stages together, the NAA Mars or Venus flyby vehicle used either an S-II refueled by (what looks like) Lockheed tankers or docked S-IVc stages for earth departure, and the MORL mars flyby vehicle used 3 S-IVc stages docked identically to the configuration depicted. Actually I just re-read the "master" Douglas report on S-IVC. Aside from the cool linear docking of multiple S-IVCs together they also were to use a Slush fuel meaning fuel densification. So when compared to the 16.7m long MS-IVB derivitives (there were three) the S-IVC gives up the structural changes from the MLV program, adds Desnsified Fuel, new LOWER RCS, new nosecone that protected the forward docking port and utilized the old style Saturn V RCS, and inline S-IVC to S-IVC docking... at-least according to NTRS 19690006388 The report is a little thin which is why I didn't read it in-depth before (and I have already work 26 hours this week (2x 13hr days) so my eyes are bleary 30 minutes ago, Clamp-o-Tron said: You could probably get away with tweakscaling for the ESM (Gemini maybe?) and using the RL10-A3 as prescribed. Other than that, the only missing parts are those cool solar arrays (which would probably not stay like that TBH). Skylab (dry) makes an excellent mission module, and the mass of the OWS itself might just work out to be the same as the ~70,000 lbs cited here. I’m not really sure though. I was actually referencing the viability of the Hydrolox engine, not how to make it in KSP. Even a Kerolox SM would suffer from boiloff of the LOX stage before you got to either destination. I think the ESM would have ended up with either 2x AJ10 developments or TR-201 derivatives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockettime03 Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 On 11/19/2021 at 12:17 AM, biohazard15 said: It's meant for Shuttle-Mir docking module and similar ISS mini-modules. It's too big for ASTP adapter. For more authentic look, you need 0.9375m cylinder (Agena tank, for example). or like I did with the LMSS crew tube Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorg Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 16 hours ago, Beccab said: @ZorgWith the later Atlas revamp, any change of the OV-1 dual fairing, if that's even possible to do? thats on the list, will likely be a payload bay rather than a SAF. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cdodders Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 I did a thing that may be cursed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Entr8899 Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 What's the cut-off date for rockets added to the mod, around mid-2000's? Also I was wondering if in the near future dedicated parts for Conestoga could be added? The Conestoga 1600 can almost be perfectly kitbashed as is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoldForest Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, Entr8899 said: What's the cut-off date for rockets added to the mod, around mid-2000's? Also I was wondering if in the near future dedicated parts for Conestoga could be added? The Conestoga 1600 can almost be perfectly kitbashed as is. I don't think there's a cutoff date, more like a "We don't feel like doing this." Thing. Iirc, Cobalt didn't want to do the Delta IV, but Zorg decided to do it, and that's how we got the Delta IV in BDB. Correct me if I'm wrong, but that's my current understanding of the situation. Edited November 23, 2021 by GoldForest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorg Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 (edited) 3 hours ago, GoldForest said: I don't think there's a cutoff date, more like a "We don't feel like doing this." Thing. Iirc, Cobalt didn't want to do the Delta IV, but Zorg decided to do it, and that's how we got the Delta IV in BDB. Correct me if I'm wrong, but that's my current understanding of the situation. Yes. and really apart from the fact I love delta IV as much as Cobalt hates it, it did make logical sense as its the culmination of the Thor/Delta line. Something like Conestoga could be theoretically possible in the sense it doesnt feel like it doesnt belong in BDB like stuff like Falcon 9 would feel. Though I cant recall offhand what dedicated parts it would need. But it depends on whether someone on the team is interested (I personally am not really plus I feel desperately behind on my to do list as it is). Edit: there might not be a cut off date but we generally do consider BDB to be a historical (sometimes alt historical) mod. So the more modern the less likely. Edited November 23, 2021 by Zorg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Entr8899 Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 12 minutes ago, Zorg said: Yes. and really apart from the fact I love delta IV as much as Cobalt hates it, it did make logical sense as its the culmination of the Thor/Delta line. Something like Conestoga could be theoretically possible in the sense it doesnt feel like it doesnt belong in BDB like stuff like Falcon 9 would feel. Though I cant recall offhand what dedicated parts it would need. But it depends on whether someone on the team is interested (I personally am not really plus I feel desperately behind on my to do list as it is). I think it'd only need altitude-optimised and inline Castor 4s, add the roll stripes back if you want, and an avionics core. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staticalliam7 Posted November 24, 2021 Share Posted November 24, 2021 Were any shuttles/shuttle derived vehicles ever considered? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam-Kerman Posted November 24, 2021 Share Posted November 24, 2021 10 minutes ago, Staticalliam7 said: Were any shuttles/shuttle derived vehicles ever considered? There's SOCK and ReDirect for Shuttle/ET-SRBs and SLS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staticalliam7 Posted November 24, 2021 Share Posted November 24, 2021 15 minutes ago, Adam-Kerman said: There's SOCK and ReDirect for Shuttle/ET-SRBs and SLS Yeah, I know, I was just curious Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derega16 Posted November 24, 2021 Share Posted November 24, 2021 (edited) Honestly for SDV stuff I want Ares V mount for RS68 atleast one that fit ReDIRECT mount, currently even compact one is too big Edited November 24, 2021 by derega16 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jcking Posted November 24, 2021 Share Posted November 24, 2021 (edited) 7 minutes ago, derega16 said: Honestly for SDV stuff I want Ares V mount for RS68 atleast one that fit ReDIRECT mount, currently even compact one is too big I believe Rogerwang’s Konstellation program mod adds an Ares V mount for the RS68. As for the ReDIRECT mod, all the mounts were made for SSMEs. Edited November 24, 2021 by Jcking Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machinique Posted November 24, 2021 Share Posted November 24, 2021 NFLV has a 6-enginge mount that can be rescaled for Ares V. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pappystein Posted November 24, 2021 Share Posted November 24, 2021 3 hours ago, Entr8899 said: I think it'd only need altitude-optimised and inline Castor 4s, add the roll stripes back if you want, and an avionics core. There might be the need for another fairing as well. But I am not certain. 49 minutes ago, Staticalliam7 said: Were any shuttles/shuttle derived vehicles ever considered? Considered? I am going to say yes. Rejected out of hand... a resounding yes just based on previous posts and conversations on stream. But who knows, as a NOTTHEDEV I really don't know Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jcking Posted November 24, 2021 Share Posted November 24, 2021 (edited) On 11/22/2021 at 9:09 PM, Pappystein said: This is the "Bigger Apollo" from the McDonnell report above: Note there is no nose Probe. Also the Gemini style roundy/drooping eye windows... and the Ring and Fork aft docking with no propulsion. Like Big Gemini this would have only had RCS for propulsion. And since this is a *McDonnell Astronautics* design, it is hardly representative of what a North American Aviation "Big Apollo" would look like! There’s a color render of this vehicle that really shows the Gemini influence, but honestly it always looked suspiciously like some depictions of BALLOS (Ballistic Reentry Type Logistics Spacecraft). Edited November 24, 2021 by Jcking Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pTrevTrevs Posted November 24, 2021 Share Posted November 24, 2021 17 hours ago, Cdodders said: I did a thing that may be cursed. What is it they say about sledgehammers and killing ants? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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