[1.12.5] Bluedog Design Bureau - Stockalike Saturn, Apollo, and more! (v1.14.0 "металл" 30/Sep/2024)

[Friznit]

Right clicking on the lab as with any other science lab.  Does it work differently with the MOS?

[Mudwig]

I don't think I've ever posted any screenshots of my experience with BDB, so here's a Few from this morning:

Spoiler

I've never actually used the LDC parts for anything before, so I decided to give them a go. Here's LDC with Orion from reDIRECT, which is just about the only right-size, right-weight thing I could find for it. I forgot to take a snap of the 2x7 segment booster stage, but I did get a shot of the new LR-87's, which look really fancy in a cluster.

Ares I is incapable of getting Orion to the Mun, or even to orbit actually, since Orion finishes the circularization itself, so with that as the target, I thought the LDC with a cryogenic 2nd stage might be a capable alternative for my Mun station ambitions.

I used a single J-2 for the 2nd stage and 4x Transtage RCS pods for attitude control.

 

The Orion was easily placed into LKO but didn't quite have enough Delta V left to get Orion to the Mun without the SM doing some of the work. I think it was about 350m/s short. However, if I'd used 4 boosters rather than 2, it would have made it easily with no debris left over.

As a bonus, here's the Cormorant shuttle, with Spacelab, docked to Skylab ( with some wonky off-axis solar panels ) forming Skyspaceshuttlelablab. I had to dock in complete darkness on the night side, because I'm bad at orbital rendezvous and it was a bit of a nightmare, but it all worked out in the end. At least I'm good at docking! Also there's an Apollo tug which I used to mount the shuttle docking extension and kept around for whatever reason even though it has almost no monoprop left and is basically useless.

 

 

[Pappystein]

2 hours ago, Mudwig said:

 

  Hide contents

I've never actually used the LDC parts for anything before, so I decided to give them a go. Here's LDC with Orion from reDIRECT, which is just about the only right-size, right-weight thing I could find for it. I forgot to take a snap of the 2x7 segment booster stage, but I did get a shot of the new LR-87's, which look really fancy in a cluster.

Ares I is incapable of getting Orion to the Mun, or even to orbit actually, since Orion finishes the circularization itself, so with that as the target, I thought the LDC with a cryogenic 2nd stage might be a capable alternative for my Mun station ambitions.

 

 

 

 

A nice series of pictures (I too forget to put/check the skylab solar panels in their correct spot before launching )

A couple of suggestions for LDC if you want to use it with Orion (I haven't flown Orion on it from reDirrect so millage may not be perfect)   Try using 5x the Sea Level J-2 (J-2SL) on the first stage with an All Cryogenic LDC Titan.  Alternately 5x of the E-1s MIGHT get you more delta/V (unsure haven't tried)   Of-course if you have a higher than 1.2:1 TWR at launch you could always check to see if drop tanks are your friend.  

LDC is my go-to for launching the Big Gemini (which is my station crew transfer/resupply barge vehicle of choice.)    I think the AUW of the Big-G is less than the Orion because of the Hydro-lox SM.  In my case the Big G is treated to a 3.125m (tweakscaled) Integrated Phoenix 4x engine plate and fuel tank with 2x RL10s      I think @Orbital_phoenix has the best looking (most compatibly looking is probably more correct) mod in comparison to BDB currently out there (but I have been reducing my parts mods list significantly and may have missed one or 2.)   I just hope he keeps his Textures Cobaltwolfalike moving forward.

And yes, I think @CobaltWolf has moved beyond "Porkjetalike" into his own in Texture quality.  

6 hours ago, Friznit said:

Right clicking on the lab as with any other science lab.  Does it work differently with the MOS?

That may be a configuration choice.  Or, since I don't remember that functionality from with I DID use the Stock labs it could have been added to Stock after MOL was last touched...  IDK

  That is something for Cobaltwolf or Jso to answer.      Sorry I couldn't be more help

Edited March 31, 2019 by Pappystein
Sentance reorg for clarity

[Pappystein]

On 3/29/2019 at 4:36 AM, Zorg said:

 

 

 

 

Zorg, what decoupler gave you those pretty studs on the RS-27 engines?  did it come with whatever mod you got your SRBs from?

[Barzon]

This is the mod @Zorg got his boosters from:

I don't know about the decouplers though.

[Zorg]

@Pappystein The SRBs are indeed from reDirect as mentioned above. The studs are left over from the shuttle SRB decouplers from Cormorant Aeronology.

I did two flights of the MDD Barbarian, I think the picture in question is from the first test flight when I attached the decoupler to I-Beams connected to the centre core in order to nestle the SRBs into the gabs between the outer LRBs. I didnt realise the studs would be left floating there lol.

In the actual flight I attached the decoupler to the LRBs directly.

I have a more complete gallery here if you're curious

https://imgur.com/a/tafllM2

Edited March 31, 2019 by Zorg

[CobaltWolf]

@Mudwig those are some awesome builds!

 

Going to be doing a sorta-marathon dev stream today - not sure how much we'll get done, but it will probably be primarily Titan 3, maybe getting some of the other Titan engines done, stuff like that. Going right abouuuuuuut NOW, on Twitch.

[Mudwig]

1 hour ago, Pappystein said:

A nice series of pictures (I too forget to put/check the skylab solar panels in their correct spot before launching )

A couple of suggestions for LDC if you want to use it with Orion (I haven't flown Orion on it from reDirrect so millage may not be perfect)   Try using 5x the Sea Level J-2 (J-2SL) on the first stage with an All Cryogenic LDC Titan.  Alternately 5x of the E-1s MIGHT get you more delta/V (unsure haven't tried)   Of-course if you have a higher than 1.2:1 TWR at launch you could always check to see if drop tanks are your friend.  

I usually get the panels to go on correctly, but I actually think I put the solar panels on at 22.5 degrees from center because I didn't bother to check my EEX angle snap.

The 5xE-1 setup might be powerful enough not to require strap-on boosters I think. Regardless, I didn't want to use non-Titan parts on the first stage, which is why I went with the LR-87/UA-1207 combo. I would have used LR-91s on the 2nd stage if the engine plate had a twin-engine variant, but it doesn't. TWR would be to low with just a single LR-91. So long as it's enough to get the job done, I'm happy with it.

I've started doing my own versions of part configs for the mods I use to better bring them in line with one another and balance them with 2.5x, so my parts might not quite perform the same as standard. I wish there were a working standard for stock-alike versions of real stuff, but their is just a jumble of different approaches instead. Even scaling isn't standardized.

[KnedlikMCPE]

Hey guys,

i'm starting a documentary on humankind achievements in space and i want it to be as realistic as possible. I have a question, what launch pads are you using here?

 

[Pappystein]

2 minutes ago, Mudwig said:

I usually get the panels to go on correctly, but I actually think I put the solar panels on at 22.5 degrees from center because I didn't bother to check my EEX angle snap.

The 5xE-1 setup might be powerful enough not to require strap-on boosters I think. Regardless, I didn't want to use non-Titan parts on the first stage, which is why I went with the LR-87/UA-1207 combo. I would have used LR-91s on the 2nd stage if the engine plate had a twin-engine variant, but it doesn't. TWR would be to low with just a single LR-91. So long as it's enough to get the job done, I'm happy with it. 

I've started doing my own versions of part configs for the mods I use to better bring them in line with one another and balance them with 2.5x, so my parts might not quite perform the same as standard. I wish there were a working standard for stock-alike versions of real stuff, but their is just a jumble of different approaches instead. Even scaling isn't standardized.

If you want 2x engine mount  Tweakscale the Saturn S-IVC down to 3.125... I run 2x of the LR87 singles on it all the time

 

[RaiderMan]

I've got a good question..has anyone tried building a Delta IV heavy with nothing but bluedog or tantares parts?

[Friznit]

It's not quite possible.  I built one with a mix of tweakscaled stock tanks, BDB upper stage and cryo engines for the main stage.

[DJ Reonic]

You can kinda do a Delta IV with Cormorant's Block 2 LRB tanks and Nertea's Cryo Engines 3.75m engine (tweakscaled).

[Zorg]

1 hour ago, RaiderMan said:

I've got a good question..has anyone tried building a Delta IV heavy with nothing but bluedog or tantares parts?

I built mine with reDirect SLS ICPS (basically same as DCSS, in the dev branch), BDB RL10B2 (heh still on topic-ish), Restock tweakscaled tanks for the CBCs, rescaled CryoEngines RS68 (with correct thrust, tweakscale doesnt give the right thrust).

Tory Bruno approved  (someone tagged him)

https://imgur.com/gallery/mzpCeRN

I suppose we could do like a triple core Titan LDC but I dont think BDB has a powerful enough Cryo lifter engine. I do run the RD0120 in tantares with an LH2 patch though.

Edited March 31, 2019 by Zorg

[Anders Kerman]

On 2/5/2019 at 6:01 PM, Anders Kerman said:

Ran the math...

432/s 1000kn 5.5:1

427/s 930kn 5:1

424/s 778kn 4.5:1

That should be all you need for ksp right?

And I know that engines can only have 2 modes, so I would suggest suggest 5.5:1 and 5:1

With drain the Tanks simultaneously I mean the oxygen vs hydrogen tanks

The math looked wrong so I checked it again and found out some interesting things.

Btw yes I know this is old and irrelevant but still...

[Anders Kerman]

Here is a chart and a simple table I made

Edited April 1, 2019 by Anders Kerman
Added the chart

[CobaltWolf]

19 hours ago, Mudwig said:

I usually get the panels to go on correctly, but I actually think I put the solar panels on at 22.5 degrees from center because I didn't bother to check my EEX angle snap.

The 5xE-1 setup might be powerful enough not to require strap-on boosters I think. Regardless, I didn't want to use non-Titan parts on the first stage, which is why I went with the LR-87/UA-1207 combo. I would have used LR-91s on the 2nd stage if the engine plate had a twin-engine variant, but it doesn't. TWR would be to low with just a single LR-91. So long as it's enough to get the job done, I'm happy with it.

I've started doing my own versions of part configs for the mods I use to better bring them in line with one another and balance them with 2.5x, so my parts might not quite perform the same as standard. I wish there were a working standard for stock-alike versions of real stuff, but their is just a jumble of different approaches instead. Even scaling isn't standardized.

For what it's worth, BDB itself is pretty consistent and we're slowly bullying most of the other stockalike-versions-of-real-spacecraft mods into following suit.

19 hours ago, KnedlikMCPE said:

Hey guys,

i'm starting a documentary on humankind achievements in space and i want it to be as realistic as possible. I have a question, what launch pads are you using here?

I use Tundra Space Center

 

18 hours ago, RaiderMan said:

I've got a good question..has anyone tried building a Delta IV heavy with nothing but bluedog or tantares parts?

yeah, I'd also use Restock and/or reDirect.

 

2 hours ago, Anders Kerman said:

The math looked wrong so I checked it again and found out some interesting things.

Btw yes I know this is old and irrelevant but still...

1 hour ago, Anders Kerman said:

Here is a chart and a simple table I made

Hmmm... I forget, what was the real reason for doing this?

[CobaltWolf]

My therapist: Titan Superheavy isn't real, it can't hurt you.

Titan Superheavy:

haha its funny cus I need a new therapist because the sad thoughts are back

Edited April 1, 2019 by CobaltWolf

[AHO]

So I decided to give Blender a try again, and what better way than creating a render of my favorite mod. I created this simple render using the MU to Blender exporter. Your mod is incredible! I hope I'm allowed to post this here.

 

[The_Arcitect]

2 minutes ago, AHO said:

So I decided to give Blender a try again, and what better way than creating a render of my favorite mod. I created this simple render using the MU to Blender exporter. Your mod is incredible! I hope I'm allowed to post this here.

 

Look's good!

[Pappystein]

3 hours ago, CobaltWolf said:

Titan Superheavy:

haha its funny cus I need a new therapist because the sad thoughts are back

Thanks for posting it.  One of the epic discussions Visa-V Titan on the Stream yesterday.  I have a few pics that conform to your "new standard" *inside joke people, need to be on the streams to get this one* for Titan.  Will post them later today if able.
 

[Mudwig]

6 hours ago, CobaltWolf said:

For what it's worth, BDB itself is pretty consistent and we're slowly bullying most of the other stockalike-versions-of-real-spacecraft mods into following suit.

To be fair to you and Jso, BDB is fairly well balanced ( outside of some of the older/smaller LVs, which are way too capable ) and it's the class of the field, so to speak, when it comes to cryogenics. Centaur and the Saturn stages are very well balanced and I actually use the Saturn tanks as a standard for balancing other mods with BDB. I don't love the upscaled Scout from a balance perspective because It makes it hard to use the Algol boosters separately from scout, like as strap-ons for things Titan 3BAS2, because they're too powerful. I understand why it is the way it is though, because it's hard to get a useful payload in KSP with small rockets.

I think the stock propellants are the biggest barrier to faithful representation of certain rockets ( IE: hypergolic ones ), but I think there is a stock-alike solution. Using four different liquid bipropellants to represent cryogenic fuels, cryogenic oxidizers, storable fuels and storable oxidizers. Not like Real Fuels, but simpler analogs. It would allow the volumes to be scaled more or less correctly if the densities were balanced and it would allow for more variation in fuel types. LH2-LOX ( cryogenic fuel + cryogenic oxidizer ), RP1-LOX ( liquid fuel + cryogenic oxidizer ) and various hypergolics ( liquid fuel + liquid oxidizer ) could all be represented more accurately that way.

Anyway... Keep up the good work and thanks for all that you've done both with BDB and in the KSP mod community as a whole.

I'm very eager to see the new Titan parts in game. Did you remodel the UA-12xx boosters as well? I can't remember seeing them in any of the screenshots you've posted.

[CobaltWolf]

19 minutes ago, Mudwig said:

To be fair to you and Jso, BDB is fairly well balanced ( outside of some of the older/smaller LVs, which are way too capable ) and it's the class of the field, so to speak, when it comes to cryogenics. Centaur and the Saturn stages are very well balanced and I actually use the Saturn tanks as a standard for balancing other mods with BDB. I don't love the upscaled Scout from a balance perspective because It makes it hard to use the Algol boosters separately from scout, like as strap-ons for things Titan 3BAS2, because they're too powerful. I understand why it is the way it is though, because it's hard to get a useful payload in KSP with small rockets.

I think the stock propellants are the biggest barrier to faithful representation of certain rockets ( IE: hypergolic ones ), but I think there is a stock-alike solution. Using four different liquid bipropellants to represent cryogenic fuels, cryogenic oxidizers, storable fuels and storable oxidizers. Not like Real Fuels, but simpler analogs. It would allow the volumes to be scaled more or less correctly if the densities were balanced and it would allow for more variation in fuel types. LH2-LOX ( cryogenic fuel + cryogenic oxidizer ), RP1-LOX ( liquid fuel + cryogenic oxidizer ) and various hypergolics ( liquid fuel + liquid oxidizer ) could all be represented more accurately that way.

Anyway... Keep up the good work and thanks for all that you've done both with BDB and in the KSP mod community as a whole.

I'm very eager to see the new Titan parts in game. Did you remodel the UA-12xx boosters as well? I can't remember seeing them in any of the screenshots you've posted.

The Scout is scaled the way it is for a couple of reasons. It's just about the smallest LV you can make without going to non-standard bulkhead sizes. Any smaller, and you'll struggle to find a useable payload for it, in more ways than one - not only is making a useful probe hard at that size, but any smaller and it becomes much harder to work with the parts due to the limits on how much you can zoom the camera in the VAB.

The densities of the stock LF and Oxidizer are actually fairly close to the densities of the Titan's propellants in real life. I think the only thing we're really missing is a mild cryogenic to represent LOX, and even that can be sort of abstracted away since at least the hydrogen is boiling off.

All the Titan parts are getting remade (the ~60 part To Do list on Github turned out to still be missing stuff!) or made for the first time (the new fairing bases, for example). I actually even started remodeling them already, I just haven't pulled them into the same scene as the other parts nor started texturing them. This stuff is pretty time consuming, especially with how much I spend fussing over everything.

 

3 hours ago, Pappystein said:

Thanks for posting it.  One of the epic discussions Visa-V Titan on the Stream yesterday.  I have a few pics that conform to your "new standard" *inside joke people, need to be on the streams to get this one* for Titan.  Will post them later today if able.

I'm not confident that I even understand the joke

[Pappystein]

2 hours ago, CobaltWolf said:

I'm not confident that I even understand the joke

More your comments about SRMs....  You said you were holding off on SRMs until you could devote your prime focus on them (thank you for that)   So, in the Interim, I give you Titan's "New" SRMs!  Modded and improved to work with Titan and LDC! Tweakscaled AJ-260s! (and yes the Titan *UGH* Saturn S-IV tanks are feeding Hydrolox to the core from atop the AJ-260s just like Saturn MLV was supposed to have

Alternatively for those of you on a Liquid Diet:

I don't know how well it shows up but I actually have a full Titan II first stage as each "Heavy" booster... except I put a de-activated decoupler between the tanks.  The Top tank feeds via 2 different fuel lines the bottom tank on the boosters as well as the Core tank.  Allows me to burn off some of the Core fuel before I loose the boosters (that Apollo D-2 seems a little heavy but it could be the alt config I did to get Hydrolox AJ10 per design specs.)

Edited April 1, 2019 by Pappystein
Named wrong part

[Pappystein]

Opps posted before I was done adding/editing pictures!

The result of these launches (and that of a modified Saturn V) was the following:

I give you the combined Apollo-Lab Skylab-II!

Yes that IS a S-III stage... But with 2 Hydrolox LR87s instead of the requisite J-2s (from early Saturn C-II/C-III proposals)   I used it for final circularization burn to 600km orbit...  Saturn V INT-23-Mod(?) could get it there but the S-II stage was too heavy for all the turning to get a proper orbit.   AKA I don't like using lots of RCS when Mechjeb is doing the calculations....  It does not recalculate.

IDK why but originally I had the Alternate Apollo parts equipped with the BDB supplied gendered APAS 0.9375m ports....   I couldn't get the Active port to dock to the passive port on the 4 sides of the end node in this picture.   So I scrapped the entire launch and started from scratch (thankfully not my career this is me experimenting in sandbox before attempting this in career.)   IDK if it is a collider issue on the Alternate Apollo stuff or if it is due to something else.   The Alternate Apollo craft above originally had the APAS and it wouldn't dock either.   Since I have no issues with the BDB parts and APAS I am chalking it up to a weird intra-mod compatibility issue.    I also admittedly have a high mod count back in the game at this point.   I had to sub the RL10 for the AJ-10 because SOMEONE forgot to install the AJ10 patch to eliminate the RO/Smokescreen lines that make the AJ10 not work in stock.....    I wonder who that was!

 

Next step is to RE-Launch the Apollo Lab from Alt-Apollo to join on the other side of the 5 way dock at the end.   Oh yes, I forgot to mention the entire core launched as one stage and there are no docking ports between the Alt-Apollo 6 way and the Skylab parts they are "welded" for sake of gameplay.