Kerbfleet: A Jool Odyssey-CHAPTER 21 pg 28--and the answer to Angelo's question is...

[Deddly]

5 hours ago, Geschosskopf said:

What air, other than at Laythe?   Surely the "away teams" will have OICs or NCIOCs, captains of their own ships, all reporting to Val.  Even if a torpedoboat is skippered by a lieutenant, that lieutenant is a "captain" for command purposes.  And who do captains report to if not an admiral or, at the very least, a commodore?

 

Does that mean every captain of a large ship in Star Trek is promoted to Commodore if they have shuttles on board?

[Mister Dilsby]

1 hour ago, Deddly said:

Does that mean every captain of a large ship in Star Trek is promoted to Commodore if they have shuttles on board?

Right, I think the difference is that the torpedoboats in a flotilla are not carried around by the larger craft. 

[FlyingPete]

2 hours ago, Kuzzter said:

Right, I think the difference is that the torpedoboats in a flotilla are not carried around by the larger craft. 

I can see similarities to e.g. a destroyer carrying a small motor launch aboard. They too are intended to be carried around by a larger 'mothership' rather than operating as completely independent craft.

As a side-note, a few days ago I saw a truck offloading timber, using one of those three-wheeled fork lifts that is carried on the back of the trailer and drives around at the destination site. I couldn't help but see it as a deployable probe/rover. Have I been playing KSP too long?

[Mister Dilsby]

Apologies to the 'internet impaired', this was so much fun to make I couldn't wait to post it:

...you didn't think I'd not find a way to reference this trope, did you?  

Edited March 10, 2016 by Kuzzter
Dislby

[Starhawk]

5 minutes ago, Kuzzter said:

...you didn't think I'd not find a way to reference this trope, did you?  

It worked perfectly.  To me, it evoked both 2001 and Star Trek. 

Love the bridge scenes and I'm very much enjoying what you're doing with Dilsby!

So, that's a standard Clamp-o-tron holding the tugbot?  Bob is correct to be 'concerned'.

Thanks Kuzzter.

Happy Extra-Concerned landings!

[Mister Dilsby]

2 minutes ago, Starhawk said:

So, that's a standard Clamp-o-tron holding the tugbot?  Bob is correct to be 'concerned'.

 

The Tugbot is normally stowed in the aft ramp, which is at the back of Q-bay. It has the claw at one end, and at the other end is a docking port with 90 degree offset. The aft ramp has two ports, one to stow the Tugbot and one to deploy it as a towing boom--to deploy or stow it, I detach it from one port and fly it to the other. It's fully deployed in all panes of this update, hope the pictures came out clearly  

So you can see Bob's concern--forget about the claw, even at low speed, it's a HUGE shear load on the interface between the ports on the Tugbot and the aft ramp. In fact, the first "simulation" of this procedure with a closing speed of 0.3 m/s and 2x physics warp resulted in... well, never mind.

 

[Gojira1000]

@Kuzzter - you're going to make me put together one last 1.05 massive disaster of a ship, aren't you? AREN'T YOU?!?

*Dusts off the ancient Discovery-style build plans*

(No, it won't be nearly as awesome as the Intrepid, nor will it have the awesome story)

[Angelo Kerman]

10 minutes ago, Gojira1000 said:

@Kuzzter - you're going to make me put together one last 1.05 massive disaster of a ship, aren't you? AREN'T YOU?!?

*Dusts off the ancient Discovery-style build plans*

(No, it won't be nearly as awesome as the Intrepid, nor will it have the awesome story)

Discovery, or Discovery II? (which admittedly isn't as massive as Intrepid)

[Gojira1000]

1 minute ago, Angel-125 said:

Discovery, or Discovery II? (which admittedly isn't as massive as Intrepid)

I've put it off many times, Mostly because it'll be a nightmare to build that sphere

[Mister Dilsby]

2 minutes ago, Gojira1000 said:

I've put it off many times, Mostly because it'll be a nightmare to build that sphere

Just wait, I'm sure @purpleivan will make an appropriately 'absurd' version once his story gets to that point  

[FlyingPete]

Interesting logistics happening here. If I'm understanding it right, Dwagonfly is mining ore from the rock. Some of that ore is being transferred (somehow) from there to the ISRU on Intrepid, with the rest being refined on board Dwagonfly, also being transferred by undisclosed means.

I can only assume there are pipes running between the two ships where we can't see them

[Mister Dilsby]

4 minutes ago, FlyingPete said:

I can only assume there are pipes running between the two ships where we can't see them

Yeah, pipes, that's it... magic pipes that ore, fuel and Kerbals can travel through, but science reports cannot  (referring here to that time on Eve when I could not get the science from the Billmobile cockpit up to the M7 to which it was docked)

I did think about lampshading this in-game effect by having Dislby send Nimzo out to "rig pipes" or something like that, but was having so much fun flinging him about the bridge I just clean forgot. Let's assume Mauvy did it, or something, in her eternal quest for space cheese.

[Alchemist]

If Interpid has her own ISRU (other than Quadhammer's), why there are no additional drills, too? couple of them would probably fit very nicely on the extendable claw

[purpleivan]

1 hour ago, Kuzzter said:

Just wait, I'm sure @purpleivan will make an appropriately 'absurd' version once his story gets to that point  

I made the Diskovery a week or so ago, I just need to find the time to get some appropriate snapshots of it and write up the story.

I thought I'd built everything for the story, but today realised that I have one more to make to have all that I need.

[Mister Dilsby]

Just now, Alchemist said:

If Interpid has her own ISRU (other than Quadhammer's), why there are no additional drills, too? couple of them would probably fit very nicely on the extendable claw

Ah, but there are!  I suppose I could have tried harder to put some on the Tugbot itself; i had enough trouble fitting it in the bay with the dual mountings as it was. But there are actually six drills in forward Q-bay, aiming down. You'll get to see those deployed before too long. In this case it was just a lot more convenient to use Dwagonfly's drills, but we can also put the Tugbot on a dock on the front of either D or E pod and grapple an asteroid positioned below Q-bay within reach of those drills. 

At least, I think we can--that hasn't been tested  

[Alchemist]

So you're just not hurrying to mine the entire rock out before Quadhammer returns.

Anyway, definitely looking forward for the big landing.

[Geschosskopf]

15 hours ago, Kuzzter said:

Right, I think the difference is that the torpedoboats in a flotilla are not carried around by the larger craft. 

Well, originally torpedoboats weren't big and seaworthy enough to cross oceans so they were in fact carried on motherships

It just seems to me that some of the stuff aboard Intrepid really doesn't fit in the category "ship's boat"  Ship's boats support the mothership in some way, typically doing domestic chores like carrying crew and supplies to/from the mothership.  Quammer seems to be in that category.  But others, such as the Gumdrops and maybe Skimmeroo have separate, reasonably long-duration missions of their own, and just used Intrepid as a transfer stage.  They could have been sent out as independent commands.  So when they're out, it looks more like a flotilla than ship's boats to me.

"Commodore" , like "captain" is both an actual rank and a generic job description regardless of actual rank.  Destroyers might be skippered by LCmdrs but their crews call them "Captain", and the DesRon's CO might have actual captain's rank but is still called "Commodore".  So no actual promotion is required.

[Mister Dilsby]

5 minutes ago, Geschosskopf said:

Ship's boats support the mothership in some way, typically doing domestic chores like carrying crew and supplies to/from the mothership.  Quammer seems to be in that category.  But others, such as the Gumdrops and maybe Skimmeroo have separate, reasonably long-duration missions of their own, and just used Intrepid as a transfer stage.  

Really interesting, I think you could argue it both ways. Qwammer is actually the longest-duration, most capable craft of the bunch. It's the Tylo and Vall lander--in fact, I'm pretty sure it could do Jool-5 all by itself. Yes, even Laythe--though parachutes might be a nice add  If it's a ship's boat, it's the biggest and most seaworthy. A cutter, or a pinnace perhaps? I'm grasping, you know far more about the ins and outs of naming boats/ships/sloops/whatevers than I do.

Gumdrops are not long-duration at all. They're just cockpits with a bunch of science stuff attached. They're monopropellant propelled, for gosh sake! If they're boats, they're dinghies--only good for a few hundred m/s delta V, and only suitable for low-gravity moons. 

And Skimmeroo--well. The Fleet guys might want to call it a 'boat' to get under Jeb's skin, but it's something else altogether entirely, an aircraft that is also a spacecraft. 

Anywhoo--getting Qwammer, whatever it is, back to the ship now. Comics to follow  

[Geschosskopf]

10 minutes ago, Kuzzter said:

Really interesting, I think you could argue it both ways. Qwammer is actually the longest-duration, most capable craft of the bunch. It's the Tylo and Vall lander--in fact, I'm pretty sure it could do Jool-5 all by itself. Yes, even Laythe--though parachutes might be a nice add  If it's a ship's boat, it's the biggest and most seaworthy. A cutter, or a pinnace perhaps? I'm grasping, you know far more about the ins and outs of naming boats/ships/sloops/whatevers than I do.

Gumdrops are not long-duration at all. They're just cockpits with a bunch of science stuff attached. They're monopropellant propelled, for gosh sake! If they're boats, they're dinghies--only good for a few hundred m/s delta V, and only suitable for low-gravity moons. 

And Skimmeroo--well. The Fleet guys might want to call it a 'boat' to get under Jeb's skin, but it's something else altogether entirely, an aircraft that is also a spacecraft. 

Anywhoo--getting Qwammer, whatever it is, back to the ship now. Comics to follow  

Ah, OK, I thought the Gumdrops were going out to Pol and Bop while Intrepid stayed in the inner system, and that Quammer was mostly for refueling Intrepid for the trip home.  But either way, you have something that really doesn't fit in the "ship's boats" category.

As to historical names of different types of ship's boats, that was more of a thing back in the days of sail, and the terms used varied by navy.  In general, however, there were 2 main classes, "boom boats" and "davit boats".  Davit boats were small enough to hang on davits and included things like skiffs, dinghies, whalers, etc.  Boom boats were so big they sat on deck and were hoisted in and out using a boom or yard as a derrick.  This was enough of a chore that if they were going to be in frequent use, they tied up to a boat boom on the ship's side near the waterline instead of being hoisted back aboard after every trip.  This would be things like pinnaces, barges, etc.

[rlin]

On 3/9/2016 at 3:07 PM, Mad Rocket Scientist said:

Yeah.  Risk ten lives and the flagship for a personal growth opportunity.  That's Val for you.

@Kuzzter, did you break the fourth wall on purpose?

14 hours ago, Kuzzter said:

Apologies to the 'internet impaired', this was so much fun to make I couldn't wait to post it:

...you didn't think I'd not find a way to reference this trope, did you?  

Ever since @Kuzzter posted that "red alert" in the action group diagram caused a red light to light, reminding him to write WHOOOOP! WHOOOOP! sound effects, (Of course, @Just Jim couldn't resist asking how many kerbals it takes to replace the light bulbs) I was anticipating this moment.

[FlyingPete]

5 hours ago, Kuzzter said:

Really interesting, I think you could argue it both ways. Qwammer is actually the longest-duration, most capable craft of the bunch. It's the Tylo and Vall lander--in fact, I'm pretty sure it could do Jool-5 all by itself. Yes, even Laythe--though parachutes might be a nice add  If it's a ship's boat, it's the biggest and most seaworthy. A cutter, or a pinnace perhaps? I'm grasping, you know far more about the ins and outs of naming boats/ships/sloops/whatevers than I do.

Gumdrops are not long-duration at all. They're just cockpits with a bunch of science stuff attached. They're monopropellant propelled, for gosh sake! If they're boats, they're dinghies--only good for a few hundred m/s delta V, and only suitable for low-gravity moons. 

And Skimmeroo--well. The Fleet guys might want to call it a 'boat' to get under Jeb's skin, but it's something else altogether entirely, an aircraft that is also a spacecraft. 

Anywhoo--getting Qwammer, whatever it is, back to the ship now. Comics to follow  

As spacecraft go, I'd imagine the Qwammer/flying space-baguette/Weltraumskäsesuchenkraft isn't the most user-friendly for long-duration flights. Isn't the cockpit oriented at 90 degrees in helicopter mode?

So the Gumdrops are basically equivalent to the small boats that expensive 'Gin Palace' cruisers carry to get the occupants ashore on little Mediterranean islands etc? But obviously much more respectable.

Edited March 11, 2016 by FlyingPete

[Mister Dilsby]

6 hours ago, rlin said:

Ever since @Kuzzter posted that "red alert" in the action group diagram caused a red light to light, reminding him to write WHOOOOP! WHOOOOP! sound effects, (Of course, @Just Jim couldn't resist asking how many kerbals it takes to replace the light bulbs) I was anticipating this moment.

And here it is! I couldn't wait either  But @rlin, please be sure when you do a reply to the comic to edit the comic images out of your reply.  This is important, as we have a lot of replies here, and when someone scrolls through reading the comic we don't want them to get confused finding multiple copies of the same pages.  

1 hour ago, FlyingPete said:

As spacecraft go, I'd imagine the Qwammer/flying space-baguette/Weltraumskäsesuchenkraft isn't the most user-friendly for long-duration flights. Isn't the cockpit oriented at 90 degrees in helicopter mode?

So the Gumdrops are basically equivalent to the small boats that expensive 'Gin Palace' cruisers carry to get the occupants ashore on little Mediterranean islands etc? But obviously much more respectable.

Yes the cockpit and crew cab is oriented 90 degrees to the main engines, but of course that only matters when you're burning. It's really a matter of how you roleplay life support and comfort issues. Was Hummlebee a long-duration ship? I treated it as such in D,OB!, though there wasn't any crew space other than a Mk3 cockpit. Same with Mortingale and Kranefly in the next book. And then we had Jeb and Bill ride all the way back from Eve in the M7 orbiter, which was even smaller. Most of us think nothing of throwing some poor kerb in a Mk1 capsule and having him wait six years for an ecliptic lineup, then wave our hands and say he's "hibernating"  

But now I've introduced comfort, life support, and SPACE MADNESS, so the same Mk2 inline cockpit that would have sufficed for a five year voyage on its own I now consider part of a 'davit boat'. I admit it's mostly a look and feel thing. It is interesting to think about.   

[Just Jim]

7 hours ago, rlin said:

@Kuzzter, did you break the fourth wall on purpose?

Ever since @Kuzzter posted that "red alert" in the action group diagram caused a red light to light, reminding him to write WHOOOOP! WHOOOOP! sound effects, (Of course, @Just Jim couldn't resist asking how many kerbals it takes to replace the light bulbs) I was anticipating this moment.

 

It was just there... begging to be asked... lol.....

Edited March 11, 2016 by Just Jim

[Deddly]

2 hours ago, Kuzzter said:

But now I've introduced comfort, life support, and SPACE MADNESS, 

...and CHEESE.

[Mister Dilsby]

Can you believe it? Just passed 100,000 views on this thread. And it feels like we just started! Probably because I've been stringing this along for over 200 comics pages and we still haven't even left Kerbin's SOI!

But here's 5 more pages anyway