Sigma Dimensions

[Sigma88]

11 minutes ago, awsumindyman said:

By "proper" I meant it changed based on the distance rescale, not the size rescale. Anyways, thanks for answering my question.

Then it's properly changed

Actually it's a standard ksp feature, I'm not even sure how I would change it if I wanted

Edited February 22, 2016 by Sigma88

[Sigma88]

2 hours ago, MainSailor said:

I started playing Uncharted Lands yesterday, in conjunction with Sigma Dimensions to scale up to 6.4x. I haven't had this much fun in KSP in years. I'm still trying to figure out the atmosphere curves to get an efficient launch (or into orbit at all for that matter ).

UL Kerbin is beautiful...I haven't even tried with Scatterer or anything else yet, the visuals out of the box are amazing so far. Can't wait to start visiting other planets.

I'm glad you are enjoying UL with SD, did you find any issues with the rescale? is everything working fine?

Edited February 22, 2016 by Sigma88

[MainSailor]

16 minutes ago, Sigma88 said:

I'm glad you are enjoying NH with SD, did you find any issues with the rescale? is everything working fine?

Atmosphere's density seems a little wonky, but I'm using @GreenWolf's 1.285 scale with UL and I don't know how those two are playing together (that recommendation was for stock solar system.) But I think that's going to be a trial and error type thing to find a good setting. Otherwise, no issues I've noticed with the scaling. I'm coming out a a 64k save, so I was looking for something different (cue @KillAshley's UL pack) but with the same challenge as 64k, that's how I found Dimensions (although I had used your recolor mods before.)

 

Edit: Not sure why my quote has it listed as New Horizons. It's definitely Uncharted Lands that I'm playing.

Edited February 22, 2016 by MainSailor

[Sigma88]

10 minutes ago, MainSailor said:

Atmosphere's density seems a little wonky, but I'm using @GreenWolf's 1.285 scale with UL and I don't know how those two are playing together (that recommendation was for stock solar system.) But I think that's going to be a trial and error type thing to find a good setting.

I don't play KSP enough to be sure about that, but I think the biggest issue when rescaling atmospheres is that the stock atmosphere has 70km altitude and 1 atm pressure at sea level.

when you rescale the planet by 6.4 but you rescale the atmosphere by 1.285 the result is having an atmosphere that is relatively thinner.

(yes, it is thicker than the stock one, but if you compare it to the radius of the planet it's actually a smaller fraction)

so you end up with more energy to dissipate in less space, and so you risk overheating

14 minutes ago, MainSailor said:

Not sure why my quote has it listed as New Horizons. It's definitely Uncharted Lands that I'm playing.

that's my fault, I put the name of the mod so that people reading your comment could understand the context and put NH by mistake

fixed it now

[MainSailor]

5 minutes ago, Sigma88 said:

I don't play KSP enough to be sure about that, but I think the biggest issue when rescaling atmospheres is that the stock atmosphere has 70km altitude and 1 atm pressure at sea level.

when you rescale the planet by 6.4 but you rescale the atmosphere by 1.285 the result is having an atmosphere that is relatively thinner.

(yes, it is thicker than the stock one, but if you compare it to the radius of the planet it's actually a smaller fraction)

so you end up with more energy to dissipate in less space, and so you risk overheating

This makes sense...with 64k I was used to dumping fairings after 50km altitude, sometimes less, and I'd be seeing very little additional drag/heating. I'm seeing heating now all the way up to 95km, and I can't pop fairings until I'm about ready to circularize. I think the atmosphere runs up to 103km using that setting? Don't quote me, I will have to look. I literally only played for 45 minutes yesterday (with lots of overheating and crashes/failure to get to get to altitude before hitting AP). Also had issues where I saw crazy drag/dynamic pressures and that may be part of it.

7 minutes ago, Sigma88 said:

that's my fault, I put the name of the mod so that people reading your comment could understand the context and put NH by mistake

fixed it now

Heh heh no problem! I was confused myself for a moment, as I know there's also a New Horizons mod out there.

[Sigma88]

16 minutes ago, MainSailor said:

This makes sense...with 64k I was used to dumping fairings after 50km altitude, sometimes less, and I'd be seeing very little additional drag/heating. I'm seeing heating now all the way up to 95km, and I can't pop fairings until I'm about ready to circularize. I think the atmosphere runs up to 103km using that setting? Don't quote me, I will have to look. I literally only played for 45 minutes yesterday (with lots of overheating and crashes/failure to get to get to altitude before hitting AP). Also had issues where I saw crazy drag/dynamic pressures and that may be part of it.

Heh heh no problem! I was confused myself for a moment, as I know there's also a New Horizons mod out there.

Well, keep in mind that UL's kerbin has a different atmosphere than stock kerbin

So the rescale you set will change the UL atmosphere (which is higher than stock iirc)

[GreenWolf]

Yeah, I have no idea how those configs will work with a UL setup, seeing as it does it's own muckery with the atmosphere. It should also be noted that those configs assume that you're using FAR and SMURFF (which is why I also included SMURFF configs), although it should still work without FAR.

I'm going to grab graphotron or something similar and get some data off my next few launches to give people some tips for ascent profiles in 6.4x with a 90km atmosphere. At this point, with over 20 launches (plus I don't know how many simulations in KCT) I've gotten something of an intuitive grasp of the flight profiles, but I don't have a lot of hard numbers to show other people.

[MainSailor]

39 minutes ago, Sigma88 said:

Well, keep in mind that UL's kerbin has a different atmosphere than stock kerbin

So the rescale you set will change the UL atmosphere (which is higher than stock iirc)

Copy that. I'll be testing to see the next time I get to play.

 

6 minutes ago, GreenWolf said:

Yeah, I have no idea how those configs will work with a UL setup, seeing as it does it's own muckery with the atmosphere. It should also be noted that those configs assume that you're using FAR and SMURFF (which is why I also included SMURFF configs), although it should still work without FAR.

I'm going to grab graphotron or something similar and get some data off my next few launches to give people some tips for ascent profiles in 6.4x with a 90km atmosphere. At this point, with over 20 launches (plus I don't know how many simulations in KCT) I've gotten something of an intuitive grasp of the flight profiles, but I don't have a lot of hard numbers to show other people.

I wasn't sure how well they'd play together.

I am currently using SMURFF, but using default settings, and I don't have FAR installed this time around. Also did some testing with GravityTurn because I know it's 'aware' of the atmosphere curves and only ended up in failure, the 'improve guess' kept making the turns lower and sharper which of course slammed the rocket into the thickest part of the atmosphere and overheated everything, even fairings, within 30 seconds. That's the first time I've ever seen that.

Edited February 22, 2016 by MainSailor

[Rik]

I reduced the boominess of increased atmosphere thickness by playing around with atmospheric heating in the settings.  On a 3.2x rescale with atmos at 1.32x and using FAR I reduce heating to between 80-90%, at 100% I consistently turn those poor, brave Kerbals into fireworks regardless of reentry attitude.

Thanks for the mod Sigma88, I'm having way too much fun jacking with the planetary and orbital radii, just getting to the Mun is hard for the first time in a while.

 

[Sigma88]

21 minutes ago, Rik said:

I reduced the boominess of increased atmosphere thickness by playing around with atmospheric heating in the settings.  On a 3.2x rescale with atmos at 1.32x and using FAR I reduce heating to between 80-90%, at 100% I consistently turn those poor, brave Kerbals into fireworks regardless of reentry attitude.

Thanks for the mod Sigma88, I'm having way too much fun jacking with the planetary and orbital radii, just getting to the Mun is hard for the first time in a while.

 

I'm glad you are enjoying the mod

[Rik]

@Sigma88 arguably my favorite right now, even my "stock" game has orbits x2.  My only addition (if it's possible) would be to have the days adjust with "DayLengthMultiplier", it's a little odd looking when my days at x2 are 1 day, 5 hours , and 57 some-odd minutes.

[Sigma88]

3 hours ago, Rik said:

@Sigma88 arguably my favorite right now, even my "stock" game has orbits x2.  My only addition (if it's possible) would be to have the days adjust with "DayLengthMultiplier", it's a little odd looking when my days at x2 are 1 day, 5 hours , and 57 some-odd minutes.

I'm not sure what you are asking.

what value did you set "dayLengthMultiplier" to?

[Rik]

Days are still 6 hours or 24 hours in setup, when I increase the size and slow down rotation those values are still used to calculate days, By KSP's logic with DayLengthMultiplier set to x2 Kerbin takes two days to turn once on its axis, not a deal breaker (still my favorite mod for breathing new life into the game) but it does look odd.

I'm not even sure if that logic is accessible, just a thought.

[Sigma88]

10 minutes ago, Rik said:

Days are still 6 hours or 24 hours in setup, when I increase the size and slow down rotation those values are still used to calculate days, By KSP's logic with DayLengthMultiplier set to x2 Kerbin takes two days to turn once on its axis, not a deal breaker (still my favorite mod for breathing new life into the game) but it does look odd.

I'm not even sure if that logic is accessible, just a thought.

oh now I get what you mean!  the ksp clock... no I cannot change that one with modulemanager (as far as I know)

but if anyone makes a mod that can do that I will make sure to add compatibility in SigmaDimensions so that the timeclock is consistent with the planet's rotation

[MoeKitsune]

Are anomalies buried in the ground at scales higher than 1x?

[Sigma88]

1 hour ago, TheJewelOfJool said:

Are anomalies buried in the ground at scales higher than 1x?

it depends on how the anomalies are placed.

some anomalies, like the mars face, have a parameter that tells ksp to place it on the surface.

some other anomalies, like the kraken, have a parameter that tells ksp "place it x meters from the center of the planet"

 

all those anomalies that are like the face (the munarches and the armstrong memorial for example) will be placed correctly

all those anomalies that are like the kraken (some of the SQUAD monoliths and the tylo cave) will be either buried or floating in space, depending on the rescale used.

right now kopernicus doesn't allow me to fix this, but as soon as I have the tools to do it I will make sure to rescale the anomalies positions as well

 

if you want, you can fix the position of the anomalies using KittopiaTech, but that change cannot be saved.

[PyjackMeat]

What are the best settings for a 10x playthrough?

[Sigma88]

9 minutes ago, PyjackMeat said:

What are the best settings for a 10x playthrough?

I have no idea about balancing, but the major issue is figuring out the atmosphere altitude you want

RSS (which is roughly 10x) uses a 120000 km atmosphere (iirc)

that would mean setting the multiplier to 1.714

also, I think all suggestions that you find for 6.4x can be used for 10x as well (upgrading the numbers)

[MainSailor]

On 2/9/2016 at 1:05 PM, GreenWolf said:

3. I actually goofed there. I thought that atmosphere visual effect scaled independently of the atmosphere height, so I just set them to the same thing. (I also wonder if this might be the root cause of the weird "Cannot warp while under acceleration" bug I've been encountering in orbit, or if that's just down to Weird Mod Interaction or even just Weird KSP Bugs.)

Did you ever solve this issue? I currently have atmoVisualEffect set to 1 and am having the acceleration lockout bug as well. I can't even swap away from ships in stable orbit. 

[GreenWolf]

No, I never did figure the root cause of it, but I have found a work around. If you quicksave and then quickload, you can start warping or switch to another nearby ship if you do it before the scene fully loads.

I've also found that the phantom acceleration goes away entirely if you come back to the ship after a bit of in-game time has passed. So the only time I ever really see the bug is during launches and occasionally when doing dockings or transfer burns to one of the moons.

Amusingly, I've become very good at doing single burn launches or launches with very little coast time (which are more efficient), mainly because it means I don't have to spend a few minutes at 5x physical time warp (yes, 5x physical warp – I have Better TimeWarp) waiting to coast to apoapsis.

I'm not even sure if this is a bug caused by Sigma Dimensions or if it's Weird Mod Interactions. Considering the heavy load of mods I run, I am inclined to suspect the latter.

Edited February 24, 2016 by GreenWolf

[MainSailor]

1 hour ago, GreenWolf said:

No, I never did figure the root cause of it, but I have found a work around. If you quicksave and then quickload, you can start warping or switch to another nearby ship if you do it before the scene fully loads.

I've also found that the phantom acceleration goes away entirely if you come back to the ship after a bit of in-game time has passed. So the only time I ever really see the bug is during launches and occasionally when doing dockings or transfer burns to one of the moons.

Amusingly, I've become very good at doing single burn launches or launches with very little coast time (which are more efficient), mainly because it means I don't have to spend a few minutes at 5x physical time warp (yes, 5x physical warp – I have Better TimeWarp) waiting to coast to apoapsis.

I'm not even sure if this is a bug caused by Sigma Dimensions or if it's Weird Mod Interactions. Considering the heavy load of mods I run, I am inclined to suspect the latter.

Interesting, and good tip. I have used it a couple of times tonight. Thanks!

[Sigma88]

@GreenWolf and @MainSailor

are you having this bug when launching normally? or when hyperediting?

I have a feeling that it may be caused by inverseRotThresholdAltitude

[GreenWolf]

For me, it occurs during normal launches, and also when doing simulations in KCT. One thing that I did notice with the KCT simulations is that the bug occured regardless of what planetary body I started the simulation on or whether it was started in orbit or not (which makes very long tests annoying, since you can't quicksave and reload in the sim).

[Sigma88]

7 hours ago, GreenWolf said:

For me, it occurs during normal launches, and also when doing simulations in KCT. One thing that I did notice with the KCT simulations is that the bug occured regardless of what planetary body I started the simulation on or whether it was started in orbit or not (which makes very long tests annoying, since you can't quicksave and reload in the sim).

I am not sure about KCT, hyperedit has issues when editing landed crafts directly in orbit of another planet starting from landed on kerbin, I can imagine those problems pop up with KCT as well.

regarding the normal launches (using neither hyperedit, nor KCT)

could you try this patch?

@Kopernicus:FINAL
{
	@Body,*
	{
			%inverseRotThresholdAltitude = 10000
	}
}

let me know if the problem is solved, in that case I might need to reconsider how I rescale inverseRotThresholdAltitude

[MainSailor]

8 hours ago, Sigma88 said:

@GreenWolf and @MainSailor

are you having this bug when launching normally? or when hyperediting?

I have a feeling that it may be caused by inverseRotThresholdAltitude

Normal launches. I don't have Hyperedit installed.

 

I can physics warp all day long, but I have been unable to rails warp under at least 150-200km without using GreenWolf's trick.