Known workarounds for new WYSIWYG editor

[damerell]

We've discovered a couple of workarounds for infelicities in the new WYSIWYG editor.

1. BBcode secretly still works - at least the IMG and URL items. This means that editing a mangled post from the past will fix it up with a minimum of effort, but also that you can insert images using BBcode in new posts and topics.
2. Some HTML secretly also can work. This has been used to create tables for formatting purposes. Just put the raw HTML into the post and see what comes out. Of course, editing it is tricky...
3. Pressing Shift-Enter in the editor can be used to insert single-spaced lines.
4. Ctrl-rightclick inserted elements (such as images) to edit them. (This isn't really a workaround but it's a bit non-obvious).

Please mention more fixes below and I will edit the OP (once a day or so, because I'm lazy) to put them in.

Edited December 1, 2015 by damerell
Removed testing image

[Red Iron Crown]

This belongs in the Kerbal Network, moving.

Ctrl-right-clicking on inserted elements opens some options.

Edited December 3, 2015 by Red Iron Crown

[Superfluous J]

I am particularly interested in any way to get more than 2 line of text to the right of the image in my signature.

[Red Iron Crown]

17 minutes ago, 5thHorseman said:

I am particularly interested in any way to get more than 2 line of text to the right of the image in my signature.

Some people have figured it out here: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/126596

[Superfluous J]

14 minutes ago, Red Iron Crown said:

Some people have figured it out here: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/126596

That link appears broken. Error code 2T187/2

Though don't bother if it's "Make a picture out of your text."

Edited November 30, 2015 by 5thHorseman

[Red Iron Crown]

@5thHorseman Sorry, have to break the habit of removing titles from thread URLs. See the thread here (not pics of text): http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/126596-tables-in-posts-and-signatures/

[Superfluous J]

2 minutes ago, Red Iron Crown said:

@5thHorseman Sorry, have to break the habit of removing titles from thread URLs. See the thread here (not pics of text): http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/126596-tables-in-posts-and-signatures/

Me too! I actually just learned this from another thread and you replied before I could come back here. apparently you can cut everything after the first letter. So 126596 doesn't work, 126596- (what I did before) doesn't work, but 126596-t would have worked.

[Gaarst]

1 minute ago, Red Iron Crown said:

@5thHorseman Sorry, have to break the habit of removing titles from thread URLs. See the thread here (not pics of text): http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/126596-tables-in-posts-and-signatures/

Actually, the full title isn't even needed, nor is the first letter: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/126596-b

This will work for the thread named "Tables in posts and signatures", try with any other letter combination instead of "b", eg: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/126596-pmiouyjtrge works too.

I think I need an explanation on that "feature"...

[Beale]

2 hours ago, damerell said:

We've discovered a couple of workarounds for infelicities in the new WYSIWYG editor.

1. BBcode secretly still works - at least the IMG and URL items. This means that editing a mangled post from the past will fix it up with a minimum of effort, but also that you can insert images using BBcode in new posts and topics.
2. Pressing Shift-Enter in the editor can be used to insert single-spaced lines.

Please mention more fixes below and I will edit the OP (once a day or so, because I'm lazy) to put them in.

Thank you so much!

If BB-Codes are still "the gears" behind the fancy new editor, can we not just cut out the complication and write directly in that? 

[TheCanadianVendingMachine]

8 minutes ago, Beale said:

Thank you so much!

If BB-Codes are still "the gears" behind the fancy new editor, can we not just cut out the complication and write directly in that? 

The same reason why we can't write direct binary into the CPU

[NecroBones]

40 minutes ago, Gaarst said:

Actually, the full title isn't even needed, nor is the first letter: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/126596-b

This will work for the thread named "Tables in posts and signatures", try with any other letter combination instead of "b", eg: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/126596-pmiouyjtrge works too.

I think I need an explanation on that "feature"...

It sounds exactly like a poorly written regular expression that is extracting the post ID from the URL by looking for numbers followed by a dash and at least one title letter. It may have been coded that way to support multiple URL formats, without taking into account instances where people remove the titles like we're doing.

 

I do this too. I'm glad there's a workaround. I'll start replacing the title portion with '-X' or something.

 

[damerell]

4 hours ago, Beale said:

If BB-Codes are still "the gears" behind the fancy new editor, can we not just cut out the complication and write directly in that? 

My guess is that the new editor does some basic translation of BBcode into HTML. I haven't investigated to see what _else_ works.
Updating the OP.
 

[LordFerret]

9 hours ago, TheCanadianVendingMachine said:

The same reason why we can't write direct binary into the CPU

Sure you can... that's what all the toggle switches on the front panel are for.

[steve_v]

When C was invented, did anyone say "you can't use assembly any more, we're hiding it"?
If you use a GUI IDE, does it mean you can no longer hand-edit the generated code?
Some may like the WYSIAYG editor, but I am not one of them, like most "easy" (read over-simplified) tools, I find it annoying and counter-intuitive.
Sure, provide a high-level editor - but there's no logical reason not to have a "show code" button on it, and no reason to prevent people from working with the underlying code directly.
I don't care if it's BBCode, raw HTML, LaTeX, or BBC-basic, please give me the option to get this unhelpful front-end out of my face.

[damerell]

Please try to stick to workarounds, not complaints.

[kerbiloid]

Maybe the forum maintainer would just enable "Source" button in the toolbar?

This editor is just fine and needs no BB at all, it allows to use strict HTML tags.

[richfiles]

On November 30, 2015 12:19:37 PM, Red Iron Crown said:

This belongs in the Kerbal Network, moving.

Ctrl-right-clicking on inserted elements opens some options.

General's 319773 vs Network's 14376 posts...
Yup... Always send the popular, topical to recent events, and informative discussions where no one will actually SEE them. 

Just like hardware mods got banned from the Mods forums and got thrown into Fan Works, to get subjected to the same level as fan fiction, sketches, screenshots, and shipping... Thanks a lot! 

I would propose that topics relevant to CURENT, ONGOING EVENTS ought to be accepted as VALID General discussion, for a limited time period of time. NO ONE GOES TO KERBAL NETWORK as their first thought. It's always "To General!". People THINK General when they think discussion of current events... So why are the people who run this place blind to this? Come on! 

Are ALL of us "the crazy ones" for feeling current events should, at least temporarily, while still being current events, considered General Discussion? At least leave some manner of link in General for up to a week or two that directs to a moved to Network thread. Not just some link that appears for a moment and is gone.

Also, oh wow LordFerret, That made me LOL! That was an awesome comeback! I love it! I'm sick of interfaces hiding the workings beneath them. I don't want to take my hand from the keyboard when typing! I WANT to be able to use the text I type to define bold and italic and links, and URLs, and stuff! I don't want an editor to do things for me without me choosing to do so. I am FINE with using a WYSIWYG editor, and I'm fine with it existing. I am just NOT fine with it replacing code entry, and I'm not fine with it doing crap without my wanting it to do so! I double Shift+Enter if I want a paragraph break, cause I refuse to conform to this babysitter of a WYSIWYG editor. Screw it!

Edited December 7, 2015 by richfiles

[Gaarst]

10 minutes ago, richfiles said:

General's 319773 vs Network's 14376 posts...
Yup... Always send the popular, topical to recent events, and informative discussions where no one will actually SEE them. 

Just like hardware mods got banned from the Mods forums and got thrown into Fan Works, to get subjected to the same level as fan fiction, sketches, screenshots, and shipping... Thanks a lot! 

I would propose that topics relevant to CURENT, ONGOING EVENTS ought to be accepted as VALID General discussion, for a limited time period of time. NO ONE GOES TO KERBAL NETWORK as their first thought. It's always "To General!". People THINK General when they think discussion of current events... So why are the people who run this place blind to this? Come on! 

Are ALL of us "the crazy ones" for feeling current events should, at least temporarily, while still being current events, considered General Discussion? At least leave some manner of link in General for up to a week or two that directs to a moved to Network thread. Not just some link that appears for a moment and is gone.

General Discussion doesn't exist. General KSP Discussion does.

This is not directly related to KSP, so Kerbal Network.

Kerbal Network: "A place to discuss other parts of the KSP Network such as the Mod Repository on Curse, the website, this forum and the wiki"
General KSP Discussion: " General Kerbal Space Program discussion, on topics that do not fit the forums below"
Seems pretty clear to me. 

Edited December 7, 2015 by Gaarst

[Red Iron Crown]

@richfiles General Discussion is meant for discussion of the game itself. Always been that way, probably always will. This thread is not about the game. A redirect for this thread was in GD for a day.

You may have a point about hardware mods, especially now that the hardware prefix is gone. I'll talk it over with the other mods and see what can be done. Do you know offhand approximately how many hardware mod threads there are?

[richfiles]

Off hand, no I don't know how many. The hardware label really was useful for that. 
I know that we aren't a huge segment of the community. Not everyone has the skill to solder and assemble the parts needed to physically create something like this. Still, in terms of effort... I mean, common! People building custom "controllers" and even cockpits to play a game! That's modding cranked to 11! 

I guess in regards to the other point... I think as long as a topic gets X hits per X time, I think the redirect links ought to potentially stay active, longer. If a thread (and it's redirect link) are not popular, then let it clear, but it it's getting active discussion, i say let the redirect link stay for a while till it cools down, and then let the redirect expire? Is that possible? It could manually be killed by mods to nuke wildly off topic discussions that simply have no pertinence toward active, ongoing current events. Just a minor thought.

[Red Iron Crown]

The ability to change redirect lifespan is something we've lost with the move, perhaps it can be added sometime down the road. So for now they are 1 day only. I am sympathetic to you wanting to get eyes on your thread, but it's a bit of a tradeoff: In GD it has to compete with other threads to stay on the first page, over here it will remain so for much longer.

I've read some of the hardware threads (especially the consolidated one for which I've lost my subscription ), I agree that it is fascinating and inspiring content, even for those of us without the skills to do such things ourselves. Give us some time and we'll see what can be done, as you might imagine our plate is rather full at the moment. For now, maybe add a "Hardware" tag to the threads to make them a bit easier to identify?

[KSK]

19 hours ago, richfiles said:

General's 319773 vs Network's 14376 posts...
Yup... Always send the popular, topical to recent events, and informative discussions where no one will actually SEE them. 

Just like hardware mods got banned from the Mods forums and got thrown into Fan Works, to get subjected to the same level as fan fiction, sketches, screenshots, and shipping... Thanks a lot! 
*snip*

So they're in good company then?

Seriously - no need to be quite as derogatory about other fan works, particularly fan fiction (yes I have a personal bias here). It might not be as overtly impressive as a hardware mod but people put a lot of time and effort into their writing too. If you've already skimmed through some of the fanfic on offer and decided it's not for you then fair enough. Otherwise - give it a go sometime. You might be pleasantly surprised, not least at the lack of shipping.

Going back to your post, I'm not sure why the fanworks stuff was compressed into two forums anyway, although I'm sure there were reasons. Myself, I'd favour more subdivisions rather than fewer, to help people find what they're looking for without wading through piles of stuff they aren't as interested in.

Anyhow, this is going off-topic so I'll stop here.

[richfiles]

@KSK

The reason those of us doing hardware mods might hold a little hostility on the subject matter lies in the difference between a modification of game play versus a fully derivitave work.

Art, fiction, sculpture, etc are interperetations of the game by the author/artist upon another medium. A hardware controller/cockpit, on the other hand, fundamentally changes the gameplay experience by directly altering the manner by which the game is actually played and experienced.

One is a contributive element, while the other is a derivative element.

A person could have went to a university to study writing, philosphy, the arts, etc, and they could create an exquisite masterpiece, inspired by KSP! or they could be a freshman in high school. Maybe the freshman ends up creating a masterpiece, and the Uni grad writes horseapples! Regardless, both are derivitave works, and hold no influence upon the game or the gameplay itself. I would even go so far as to say that RP doesn't count as contributive either, since it's still simply you playing your game "based" on your interperated story line. It's still a derivative behavior, inspired by your own creative elements attached to the way you choose to play the game. It's simply a narrative interpretation of the way you play.

A hardware controler or even a full cockpit, however, fundamentally alters gameplay. It creates a new interface into the game that gives you a new way to control it, to recieve telemetry, and to play. Combining mods and hardware, some people on the forums have even succeeded in playing a full IVA mission control/capsule pilot scenario, where a mission control team in one room guides another player in another room, purely on remote telemetry and "radio" contact. The Pilot enters IVA and never leaves for the duration of the mission. Even a simple controller stands to aid in immersion.

My own project will feature a mechanical FDAI (Flight Director Attitude Indicator... aka the navball), A "DSKY" inspired by the Apollo DSKY (DiSplay KeYboard) to handle "meta" functions (Save and load, time warp, etc), enormous 6 inch (14.7 cm) edgewise meters for resource indicators, and a giant round 4 inch (9.8 cm) vertical velocity meter (just like the one on screen... only, bigger) to tell me if I'm gunna die she I land!  I'll have digital readouts of orbital and surface values that the game normally doesn't even share with the player, without using mods. I'll have dual joysticks for controlling attitude and translation, a physical throttle lever, clunky toggle switches to control the various ship functions, and big red and green blowy buttons for staging and abort... Cause how could I say no to big red and big green blowy buttons! 

Long story short, hardware influences the game, how you play the game. That is the difference. Hardware controllers and readouts are fundamentally different from derivative works, and I, at least, feel hardware builds are more in line with mods than they are with fan works. The original argument that moved them out of mods, and into fanworks, was (the software centric) view, that you cant "download" a controller, thus it isn't a mod... which is absurd! You can download the plans, buy a soldering iron, learn how to build it, and "mod" how you play the game forever! It just takes more work on your part than strictly software mods.

That's my stance on the subject. For fundamentally altering the gameplay experience, it feels unfair to be told "no, you are not a mod, cause you take too much work to implement, so we're gonna just call you some form of nondescript interactive sculpture". 

Software guys... amirite? 

Of course, I've totally derailed the discussion, so back on topic! I still hate having to hit Shift+Enter to produce a single line. Topic restored! 

Also... I'm glad I copied my text. I had some odd double edit box thing happening, with two copies of the post text. I must have clicked something wrong. When I saved, it ONLY recorded the smilies I had clicked, and placed them all at the front of the post, but saved none of my new text (it kept the old text)... How odd... Like I said, I saw odd things, and copied all my text before clicking on the save button.

Edited December 10, 2015 by richfiles