Does anybody else think Jeb and Val should hook up?

[KSK]

20 hours ago, Matuchkin said:

I am completely weirded-out by this post. The amount of character depth and development this game needs is identical to that of a cereal advertisement. In fact, I do not know what the whole story-telling culture of KSP is about- personally, I view it as immature and childish. This is a video game, certainly not a work of drama.

Disagree. Adding character depth and development would be one way (amongst many others floated on this forum) of adding some much needed depth to Career Mode. In my opinion a crew roster that the player is actively engaged with, with reasons to select one crewmember over another would be preferable to the current, largely generic, lineup of rocket fodder.

Oh - and thank you for the sweeping dismissal of the many writers on this forum, myself included. Not that I need to justify my KSP writing in the slightest, least of all to you, but here are some reasons (in no particular order) why I believe that culture has arisen:

1. Human beings like stories. End of. We've been making them up and telling them ever since we figured out this 'language' thing and I doubt we'll be stopping any time soon.
2. Being inspired by other works is common to almost every type of creative or artistic work you can imagine. How many musicians cite various bands as inspiration for their own music for example? How many bands start out by doing covers of their favorite tracks before finding their own style?
3. It may be a video game but KSP includes a lot of big sci-fi tropes that make entirely suitable jumping-off points for writers to write about.
4. From a neophyte writer's perspective, KSP is the best of both worlds. It's an almost entirely blank setting to work in, populated with just enough detail (most names of characters, rocket parts and companies) to make it a very recognizable setting. Which makes it fertile ground for storytelling of all kinds: hard sci-fi (as you might expect given KSP's take on rocketry and spaceflight), speculative sci-fi, horror, historical, satire, and comedy of all kinds.

18 hours ago, Matuchkin said:

Just to add, if people want to get into writing, they should do it on topics touched by masters such as Isaac Asimov or Stanislaw Lem rather than focusing on a video game about building simple rockets and manning them with idiot astronauts.

I'll get right on that then. No wait - I won't bother. See my comments above as to why KSP is, in my opinion, a fine inspiration for writers. And perhaps if the game and/or Squad did provide more backstory or character detail, we could finally move on from this tired, out of date, and frankly unwelcome meme that KSP is just about 'simple rockets crewed by idiot astronauts'.

Edited April 18, 2017 by KSK

[Just Jim]

In the Saga of Emiko Station, Val and Jeb have finally become a couple. But it wasn't just random, it took years of being together through hardship and, well.... a brain in a pod trying to kill them.... that finally brought them together.

 

20 hours ago, Matuchkin said:

 In fact, I do not know what the whole story-telling culture of KSP is about- personally, I view it as immature and childish. This is a video game, certainly not a work of drama.

 

18 hours ago, Matuchkin said:

Just to add, if people want to get into writing, they should do it on topics touched by masters such as Isaac Asimov or Stanislaw Lem rather than focusing on a video game about building simple rockets and manning them with idiot astronauts.

Wow.... I'm not sure how to even respond to this... 

Edited April 18, 2017 by Just Jim

[LoSBoL]

17 hours ago, SchwinnTropius said:

This has to be the most random and entertaining topic I've read on these forums in a long time. Though I would ship Val with Bob or Bill over Jeb simply because Jeb and Val are nearly identical.

How about Bill hooking up with Bill Bob?  I hear a lot that KSP should keep up with current times, so that would probably bring it to 2017   

Edited April 18, 2017 by LoSBoL
http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/159331-does-anybody-else-think-jeb-and-val-should-hook-up/&do=findComment&comment=3025338

[Brent Kerman]

2 minutes ago, Just Jim said:

In the Saga of Emiko Station, Val and Jeb have finally become a couple. But it wasn't just random, it took years of being together through hardship and, well.... a brain in a pod trying to kill them.... that finally brought them together.

 

 

Wow.... I'm not sure how to even respond to this... 

Don't worry, I think many more people like your story than not. Also, great to hear Jeb and Val are together.

On-topic: I almost always have 'something' going on between Jeb and Val. And stories give us great cannon for RP Playthroughs

[TopHeavy11]

My only comment is: How has a moderator not taken this down yet? I don't know the rules but this thread seems like it should be breaking at least one of them.

[Brent Kerman]

3 minutes ago, TopHeavy11 said:

My only comment is: How has a moderator not taken this down yet? I don't know the rules but this thread seems like it should be breaking at least one of them.

I just looked at the rules and I think we're ok. @Vanamonde, @Red Iron Crown, am I correct?

[Ruedii]

On 4/17/2017 at 4:29 AM, imkrazy said:

I know it MAY sound weird, but they are a perfect match. They are the only two badass kerbals, they are both pilots, and are both courageous. it just makes sense to me...

They are too perfect.  They are likely bitter rivals. 

Val's probably dating Bob or Bill to make Jeb jealous.

[Matuchkin]

31 minutes ago, Just Jim said:

Wow.... I'm not sure how to even respond to this... 

Sorry for phrasing it in that way, but if you really think about it, it is childish. Like, there is no other definition for it. Of course, this depends on demographics: a 30 year old writing a story about KSP may be childish, while a 15 year old may not be. I know that I insulted pretty much half the forum with my prior remark, but I do not know another way to put it.

[Just Jim]

36 minutes ago, Brent Kerman said:

Don't worry, I think many more people like your story than not. Also, great to hear Jeb and Val are together.

 

I didn't mean Emiko. I don't care if someone doesn't like Emiko, it's fine... not everyone likes campy sci-fi.

I meant in general... that comment dismissed the entire fan-fiction area, and that isn't fair at all to all the other great writers we have.

37 minutes ago, LoSBoL said:

How about Bill hooking up with Bill Bob?  I hear a lot that KSP should keep up with current times, so that would probably bring it to 2017   

I don't have a problem with this... truth is I've been skirting around it in Emiko for a while now. But I don't add romances unless they're needed for the storyline, and up to now Bob and Bill have been only supporting characters.

The bigger issue, and what I think @TopHeavy11 is concerned about, is we have some very young readers on the forum, which is something all of us writers try to take into consideration, and respect. We have to be careful both on this thread and in our stories not to go to far, or crass any lines, or we will be shut down.

6 minutes ago, Matuchkin said:

Sorry for phrasing it in that way, but if you really think about it, it is childish. Like, there is no other definition for it. Of course, this depends on demographics: a 30 year old writing a story about KSP may be childish, while a 15 year old may not be. I know that I insulted pretty much half the forum with my prior remark, but I do not know another way to put it.

Have you read even 10% of what's being written and posted in the fan-fiction section?  Oh, for the record, I'm over 50..... and I can name at least 6 different young authors that all said they've started writing because of me!!!  We have many amazing writers, and many of them are also over 30.... 

 

Edited April 18, 2017 by Just Jim

[Matuchkin]

8 minutes ago, Just Jim said:

Have you read even 10% of what's being written and posted in the fan-fiction section?  Oh, for the record, I'm over 50..... and I can name at least 6 different young authors that all said they've started writing because of me!!!  We have many amazing writers, and many of them are also over 30.... 

Ok, what the hell am I talking about. I don't want to get into these arguments. Deleting my comments. And by the way, I do like your stories. I am just wondering why they are based on a video game rather than a more expected topic. I respect the forum members that write well, but the whole reason why I stated that writing about KSP like that is "childish" is because, let's face it, it is. And I am not against this kind of writing- many times, examples are needed, certain topics can be used as practice or for recreation.

Edited April 18, 2017 by Matuchkin

[Cpt Kerbalkrunch]

5 minutes ago, Just Jim said:

The bigger issue, and what I think @TopHeavy11 is concerned about, is we have some very young readers on the forum, which is something all of us writers try to take into consideration, and respect.

I think kids can handle a little fictionalized romance. Ever see Lady and the Tramp?

[KSK]

4 minutes ago, Matuchkin said:

Sorry for phrasing it in that way, but if you really think about it, it is childish. Like, there is no other definition for it. Of course, this depends on demographics: a 30 year old writing a story about KSP may be childish, while a 15 year old may not be. I know that I insulted pretty much half the forum with my prior remark, but I do not know another way to put it.

You could try not saying it at all, especially if you think it's going to insult half the forum. Generally, that would be regarded as trolling.

Quick question - have you bothered to read, or at least hang out on the threads dedicated to, this writing that you're so blithely dismissing as childish?

Quick question 2 - would you regard an author specializing in graphic novels, young adult fiction or children's fiction as 'childish'? If not, why not?

4 minutes ago, Matuchkin said:

Ok, what the hell am I talking about. I don't want to get into these arguments. Deleting my comments.

Arguments? All you've offered are opinions and preconceptions - and rude ones at that.

[Just Jim]

9 minutes ago, Cpt Kerbalkrunch said:

I think kids can handle a little fictionalized romance. Ever see Lady and the Tramp?

Yes, agreed... and you put it perfectly. Romances are great, and I'm actually quite surprised how much I've liked writing them. But on a forum like this, it's best not to take it much past "Disney level", so to speak.

Edited April 18, 2017 by Just Jim

[Brent Kerman]

10 minutes ago, Just Jim said:

I can name at least 6 different young authors that all said they've started writing because of me!!!

You can make that seven, Jim. You inspired me to do a mission report in story form for my Kerbin exploration, and a yet unposted but in the works story about [Redacted]. My problem is now getting enough time in KSP! How did you handle the long rover drives?

[vitekc45c]

Im not going to search for it, but Im sure that one of the rule applyes to this.

And to this:

Aren't they all one big related Kermin family? 

Edited April 18, 2017 by vitekc45c

[monstah]

37 minutes ago, TopHeavy11 said:

My only comment is: How has a moderator not taken this down yet? I don't know the rules but this thread seems like it should be breaking at least one of them.

32 minutes ago, Brent Kerman said:

I just looked at the rules and I think we're ok. @Vanamonde, @Red Iron Crown, am I correct?

 

Not all was ok, but I cleared the nastiest bits. Keep it family-friendly, guys. It's possible!  

My opinion, no, they shouldn't hook up, not officially. No kerbal should have an official biography, and the game has no plot or story. Fanfic writers, however, should do as they please. A good, well-written romance is a strong trope in any literature  

[Matuchkin]

20 minutes ago, KSK said:

You could try not saying it at all, especially if you think it's going to insult half the forum. Generally, that would be regarded as trolling.

Quick question - have you bothered to read, or at least hang out on the threads dedicated to, this writing that you're so blithely dismissing as childish?

Quick question 2 - would you regard an author specializing in graphic novels, young adult fiction or children's fiction as 'childish'? If not, why not?

QQ1: Yes, I have bothered to read several threads dedicated to writing, and my dismissal is not blithe. This will be explained:

QQ2: Children's fiction is meant for children. Books such as Diary of a Wimpy Kid, Magic Tree House, the first four Harry Potter novels, or Rick Riordan's Percy Jackson series would be for an audience of the age of 5-11. They can be plays on life-issues experienced by a generic child (Diary of a Wimpy Kid), attempts to make education more appealing for a child audience, or stories based on a detailed and deep world created by the author. KSP stories are neither. On to young adult and adult fiction: books that young adults and teenagers read, such as Erich Maria Remarque's All Quiet on the Western Front, Isaac Asimov's The Foundation trilogy, et al are extremely deep and complex, with myriads of messages expressing the emotions of the author and his past experiences. They are based on the most dynamic and complex situations. KSP stories are not.

The difference between the above examples and stories based on KSP is that, while the former show a deep message and are a product of creativity, the latter is just that- a plot written on a video game. You know, a lot of people did this when they were young- making up little stories with all their favourite characters (from films, video games, books, etc) in them. Personally, I did this from the ages of 4 to 7 years old. And I admit, there are a lot of reasons to do the same with KSP: perhaps you're a literacy teacher who needs to provide an example to someone, perhaps you just need a topic to write on. But otherwise, writing a story on KSP is equivalent to, you know, what I already said.

Edit: By the way, to avoid misunderstanding: I'm not talking about spiced-up mission logs such as the Kron missions. These are just mission logs, recording data.

5 minutes ago, monstah said:

My opinion, no, they shouldn't hook up, not officially. No kerbal should have an official biography, and the game has no plot or story.

There you go. Thanks, monstah.

Edited April 18, 2017 by Matuchkin

[Just Jim]

25 minutes ago, Brent Kerman said:

You can make that seven, Jim. You inspired me to do a mission report in story form for my Kerbin exploration, and a yet unposted but in the works story about [Redacted]. My problem is now getting enough time in KSP! How did you handle the long rover drives?

Awesome! And it's a little off-topic, so I'll keep it brief. On a long rover drive, like when I circumnavigated the Mun, I did it in small spurts. A couple hours here, a couple hours there, over a period of several days.

14 minutes ago, Matuchkin said:

The difference between the above examples and stories based on KSP is that, while the former show a deep message and are a product of creativity, the latter is just that- a plot written on a video game. You know, a lot of people did this when they were young- making up little stories with all their favourite characters (from films, video games, books, etc) in them.

Little stories? And just based on the game itself? You clearly haven't read mine past the first chapter. I'm now trying to write my 79th chapter... and keep getting distracted by this.... and am now over 123,000 words!!!  And much of what I'm writing is based on my own experiences, and a lot of the classic authors like Asimov and Lovecraft and Herbert. I'm not just making up little stories, I'm doing my best to create my own KSP universe and entertain a bunch of readers that seem to be enjoying the ride. And so are a lot of other writers!

Now I'm done... I said my piece, I need to get writing or I'll be disappointing a lot of other people

Edited April 18, 2017 by Just Jim

[TheKosanianMethod]

Jeb and Val are friendly rivals, both badass pilots, and therefore not a romantic couple. 

At least in my mind. Others can disagree. 

Edited April 18, 2017 by TheKosanianMethod

[Cpt Kerbalkrunch]

21 minutes ago, Just Jim said:

on a forum like this, it's best not to take it much past "Disney level", so to speak.

I would agree with that. I probably got a little carried away writing my story. I was at work, of course, and I was bored. And the idea of Bill getting drunk on toilet-wine he made in an empty monopropellent canister had me smiling like an idiot all day long. Everyone I saw probably thought I was nuts.

I've only written a couple of those "Untold History" stories so far, but I think I'm gonna keep doing it just cuz they make me laugh. I'll try to keep it clean, though.

[MinimalMinmus]

52 minutes ago, Matuchkin said:

The difference between the above examples and stories based on KSP is that, while the former show a deep message and are a product of creativity, the latter is just that- a plot written on a video game. You know, a lot of people did this when they were young- making up little stories with all their favourite characters (from films, video games, books, etc) in them. Personally, I did this from the ages of 4 to 7 years old. And I admit, there are a lot of reasons to do the same with KSP: perhaps you're a literacy teacher who needs to provide an example to someone, perhaps you just need a topic to write on. But otherwise, writing a story on KSP is equivalent to, you know, what I already said.

Once again, I'll have to disagree. Following your logic, most, and probably every "children" books -and even that is debatable for some, I'm an adult, and I reread Percy Jackson recently without turning insane or something- you cited shouldn't exist, as they were made by adults too, and not by, well, 5-11 years old children.

You know, Tolkien wrote "The Hobbit" as a child book, and with a relatively bright setting.

Also, you can absolutely write in a serious, more mature tone about KSP, you know. The most preeminent example is the "Shadows/Whispers of the Kraken" series, which includes death, body horror, and eldritch abominations. Yes, we are still in the KSP universe, but the writing would be, I'd say, for 13+ at the very least. On another topic, I try to have a very formal tone when I write (and KSK inspired me, by the way).

So yes, you can be serious about KSP. In fact, you can be serious about everything! And no one should judge you for this.

[Matuchkin]

You guys have a point. I should reconsider my ideals.

[lodger]

2 hours ago, Matuchkin said:

Sorry for phrasing it in that way, but if you really think about it, it is childish. Like, there is no other definition for it. Of course, this depends on demographics: a 30 year old writing a story about KSP may be childish, while a 15 year old may not be. I know that I insulted pretty much half the forum with my prior remark, but I do not know another way to put it.

Well, sometimes silence is the better choice. But either way: I'm pretty sure that people will continue to get inspired by things. Be it video games, movies, songs, literature or art - like KSK wrote: it's in our nature.

The day we lose our enthusiasm and imagination will be the sadest day of all times.

Edited April 18, 2017 by lodger

[KSK]

1 hour ago, Matuchkin said:

You guys have a point. I should reconsider my ideals.

Well you can't say fairer than that - thank you.

Just as a (hopefully polite) comment on your last post though, it seemed to me as though you were conflating childishness with quality of execution, which I don't think is the best way to look at it.

I don't think there is anything inherently childish about fanfic of any kind - rather I view fanfiction very much how I view a covers band. Everyone needs to start somewhere, drawing inspiration from someone else's work is a well trodden way of getting started and in some cases, a really good cover can say new things about the original work.

As with any other form of writing, fanfiction can (and does) vary wildly in quality but just because a given piece of fanfic doesn't paint a fantastically detailed world, or deal with big literary or philosophical themes, that's no reason to dismiss it as childish. Again, everyone has to start somewhere and discouraging somebody's early attempts at writing is rather unkind. On the other hand, there's no need to gush over it either and by all means offer constructive criticism - that's the only way the writer is going to learn to become a better writer.

Turning to KSP in particular, as mentioned previously, I think it's a pretty solid starting point for storytelling. The lure of the unknown, the challenge of getting there, cutting edge technologies and spaceflight. KSP has all of those, the first two are solid literary themes in any genre and the last two are sci-fi staples. Then you have the twist of viewing the whole thing through the eyes of another species - and again, using another species as a mirror to hold up to humanity is another sci-fi staple.

TL: DR, in my opinion there's nothing inherently childish about KSP fanfic.  

Execution of course, does vary but I do disagree with your list of 'things that KSP fiction isn't'. I'm not sure which examples you've read (and this definitely isn't the place for naming and shaming) but I've read KSP stories that tackle, or at least touch on some pretty big themes. Comradeship, avoiding genocide, having to make big decisions from highly imperfect data, the loneliness of command, comparative ethics, redemption and the love of a father for his daughter are just a few that spring to mind.

Edited April 18, 2017 by KSK

[something]

There are only 4 Kerbals, one female, three male. How do you want to hook them up?

I would really like to see an effect of the stupidity and courage ratings. I mean why hiring a stupid scientist? Also some more personal traits might be nice.