Kerbin Side Remastered [1.0.1] [1.7.3]

[Mr Dudu]

2 minutes ago, Eskandare said:

You guys wanted a terminal, so here you are...

It's beautifull. Hope to see it in game soon

[Beetlecat]

13 minutes ago, Mr Dudu said:

It's beautifull. Hope to see it in game soon

Terminal velocity- achieved.

[Bottle Rocketeer 500]

@Eskandare Can you please also make straight taxiway pieces so you can make taxiways go right up to the terminal?

[Eskandare]

I've remade a few things for the next release:

 

Here is the Precision Approach Path Indicator. 

 

 

Here is the small tower:

[FahmiRBLX]

I'd also would like to suggest tunnel entrances & tunnel parts to work with Kerbal Konstructs's terraforming feature. That'll be cool.

Oh, and also road pieces that could fit one vehicle in the narrow part form factor of @blackheart612's Grounded - Modular Vehicles (Let's say this is the standard for Kerbin 4-wheeler (And above i.e Trucks, Busses, etc. excluding planes, but underground hangar & airport parts are good, too) automobiles). Also applies for the tunnel.

And some extra; can you make launch silos near key areas? (E.g large cities with 7.5m Diameter launch silos, mountain silos, island silos, other locations (Except KSC) will be 5m down to 2.5m Diameter). I bet this'll be easy with the terraforming tool.

Edited April 13, 2019 by FahmiRBLXian

[Eskandare]

11 hours ago, FahmiRBLXian said:

I'd also would like to suggest tunnel entrances & tunnel parts to work with Kerbal Konstructs's terraforming feature. That'll be cool.

Oh, and also road pieces that could fit one vehicle in the narrow part form factor of @blackheart612's Grounded - Modular Vehicles (Let's say this is the standard for Kerbin 4-wheeler (And above i.e Trucks, Busses, etc. excluding planes, but underground hangar & airport parts are good, too) automobiles). Also applies for the tunnel.

And some extra; can you make launch silos near key areas? (E.g large cities with 7.5m Diameter launch silos, mountain silos, island silos, other locations (Except KSC) will be 5m down to 2.5m Diameter). I bet this'll be easy with the terraforming tool.

The way PQS works, we can't have tunnels, sadly. If I'm not mistaken, the Map Decals work by layering another PQS 'trigger' over another. @Ger_space can elaborate better on the subject. I am working on roads, and I have been working with a prototype set of models.  I believe @Omega482 has some roads in his stock-alike buildings set. I have some new replacements to the current KSR dishes in the works. The new dishes will based off of Jordell Bank observatory in Crewe England. I'll be replacing the optical observatory with a model based off of the Chabot Obseritory in Oakland, California. I'll also adding a comms station bassed off of the former Onizuka Air Force in Mountain View California.

Edited April 14, 2019 by Eskandare

[FahmiRBLX]

On 3/23/2019 at 4:22 AM, Eskandare said:

You guys wanted a terminal, so here you are...

Looks nice. Any plans to add jet bridges?

[Ger_space]

On 4/13/2019 at 2:40 PM, FahmiRBLXian said:

I'd also would like to suggest tunnel entrances & tunnel parts to work with Kerbal Konstructs's terraforming feature. That'll be cool.

Oh, and also road pieces that could fit one vehicle in the narrow part form factor of @blackheart612's Grounded - Modular Vehicles (Let's say this is the standard for Kerbin 4-wheeler (And above i.e Trucks, Busses, etc. excluding planes, but underground hangar & airport parts are good, too) automobiles). Also applies for the tunnel.

And some extra; can you make launch silos near key areas? (E.g large cities with 7.5m Diameter launch silos, mountain silos, island silos, other locations (Except KSC) will be 5m down to 2.5m Diameter). I bet this'll be easy with the terraforming tool.

sadly you cannot add holes into the surface, as you can only alter the height map. Its impossible to make something like a tunnel in a height map, because you only see the mountain above, not whats inside.

[Lisias]

5 hours ago, Ger_space said:

sadly you cannot add holes into the surface, as you can only alter the height map. Its impossible to make something like a tunnel in a height map, because you only see the mountain above, not whats inside.

I can think on some dirty tricks to accomplish it.

Once you "punch" a role in the collider mesh, there's no collisions inside the structures (or ground features - now and then someone manages to fall into the Kerbin's core!).

So you hack the mountain wall where the tunnel starts to be a straight wall, put a mesh of an tunnel there as if everything is alright, and then paint a tunnel picture on that wall - kinda of that old Roadrunner cartoons.

It will make the tunnel entrance looking weird  but whatever, we are already counting our blesses here.

Once you pass through the wall, there will be a mesh of a tunnel "on the other side", with colliders and all, so I think that it will work.

The trick is to hack the game to do not compute colliders while traversing that painted wall. Again, exactly what happens on that Roadrunner cartoons.  

[Eskandare]

4 minutes ago, Lisias said:

I can think on some dirty tricks to accomplish it.

Once you "punch" a role in the collider mesh, there's no collisions inside the structures (or ground features - now and then someone manages to fall into the Kerbin's core!).

So you hack the mountain wall where the tunnel starts to be a straight wall, put a mesh of an tunnel there as if everything is alright, and then paint a tunnel picture on that wall - kinda of that old Roadrunner cartoons.

 

It will make the tunnel entrance looking weird  but whatever, we are already counting our blesses here.

Once you pass through the wall, there will be a mesh of a tunnel "on the other side", with colliders and all, so I think that it will work.

The trick is to hack the game to do not compute colliders while traversing that painted wall. Again, exactly what happens on that Roadrunner cartoons.  

It's not a simple mesh that can just be routed and faces removed. PQS is generated differently and has different properties then a simple hard mesh. To be able to make a tunnel though a PQS map generated mesh there would need to be some serious wizardry done in the code to prevent destroying the PQS system and making all planets cease to function. 

[Lisias]

4 minutes ago, Eskandare said:

It's not a simple mesh that can just be routed and faces removed. PQS is generated differently and has different properties then a simple hard mesh. To be able to make a tunnel though a PQS map generated mesh there would need to be some serious wizardry done in the code to prevent destroying the PQS system and making all planets cease to function. 

And on the crafts ? It's feasible to turn their colliders off while traversing the tunnel entrance? Some magic need to prevent the thing to fall down through the ground, but mangling the weight too would help, I think.

(yeah. brainstorming mode)

[Aerospacer]

There is a simpler solution. Need to do just a trench, then cover it with a "roof" - procedural static part with adaptive texturing.

Also you can do a totally static tunnel part, with all needing meshes.

Unfortunately, I haven't 3D-modelling skill for do this yourself.

 

P.S. Btw, the static with tunnels already implemented in Kerbin City airport.

Edited April 14, 2019 by Aerospacer
add P.S.

[Eskandare]

2 hours ago, Aerospacer said:

There is a simpler solution. Need to do just a trench, then cover it with a "roof" - procedural static part with adaptive texturing.

Also you can do a totally static tunnel part, with all needing meshes.

Unfortunately, I haven't 3D-modelling skill for do this yourself.

 

P.S. Btw, the static with tunnels already implemented in Kerbin City airport.

That is possible but tricky limited to the minimum size for a PQS  decal, would need the use of particular texture trickery. The texture for terrain is also a procedurally generated and is difficult to replicate. Kerbin city does it in a weird way but the textures are different. 

Edited April 14, 2019 by Eskandare

[Lisias]

20 minutes ago, Eskandare said:

That is possible but tricky limited to the minimum size for a PQS  decal, would need the use of particular texture trickery. The texture for terrain is also a procedurally generated and is difficult to replicate. Kerbin city does it in a weird way but the textures are different. 

It's possible to "paint" a small fraction of the ground to be transparent? That would eliminate the need for painting it with a fake entrance, Roadrunner style.

The thing would be still solid, but then perhaps a teleporting stunt?

[Eskandare]

1 hour ago, Lisias said:

It's possible to "paint" a small fraction of the ground to be transparent? That would eliminate the need for painting it with a fake entrance, Roadrunner style.

The thing would be still solid, but then perhaps a teleporting stunt?

I don't think you entirely understand how it works. No the ground cannot be transparent.

[FahmiRBLX]

11 hours ago, Ger_space said:

sadly you cannot add holes into the surface, as you can only alter the height map. Its impossible to make something like a tunnel in a height map, because you only see the mountain above, not whats inside.

I think just putting segments of ground-looking 'blocks' to form something like an 'artificial hill' alongside the existing terraforming to form a tunnel, ROBLOX Style.

(I remember before the smooth terraforming update was implemented there, users use 3D shapes to shape a terrain (e.g Cuboid for flat land, Sphere for hills) and some ROBLOX ganes still have them to reduce lag (Yes, the new smooth terrain is laggy for toasters). I'll try getting a ROBLOX screenshot on how it works somewhere next week's weekend hopefully).

 

Edited April 15, 2019 by FahmiRBLXian

[Lisias]

21 minutes ago, Eskandare said:

I don't think you entirely understand how it works. No the ground cannot be transparent.

You are right. I don't. But your answers prevented me from chasing my tail while trying to understand it. Thank you.

[FahmiRBLX]

6 hours ago, Lisias said:

I can think on some dirty tricks to accomplish it.

Once you "punch" a role in the collider mesh, there's no collisions inside the structures (or ground features - now and then someone manages to fall into the Kerbin's core!).

So you hack the mountain wall where the tunnel starts to be a straight wall, put a mesh of an tunnel there as if everything is alright, and then paint a tunnel picture on that wall - kinda of that old Roadrunner cartoons.

It will make the tunnel entrance looking weird  but whatever, we are already counting our blesses here.

Once you pass through the wall, there will be a mesh of a tunnel "on the other side", with colliders and all, so I think that it will work.

The trick is to hack the game to do not compute colliders while traversing that painted wall. Again, exactly what happens on that Roadrunner cartoons.  

 

IMO putting 'collider blocks' on the mountain which has the tunnel might work.

Like this. 1. The hill goes non-collideable as mentioned. 2. Tunnel entrances models have collisions on it. 3. Under the terrain there will be the tunnel tube with collision mesh, which prevents users seeing the inside of the unmodelled mountain interior and enabling users to actually drive inside the tunnel. And if the tunnel tube is 3/4 cylindrical, one can even do a wallride, a good element of a race challenge!

But underwater / below sea level tunnels might pose a risk of flooding since the water is 'simply' modelled sphere with the planet, which could also conclude why the Administration Building in KSC has a pool of 'fake water'.

Spoiler

Pardon me if I explained the exact same thing, it took me several times of reading the post to understand. At least I've simplified the thing and added some more points.

Also, I'm planning to make a Kerbin Circumnavigation Highway which connects every single 'civilizations' on Kerbin alongside patches to SXT KSC++, KSC Extended, Tundra's Space Center and Kerbinside, so those buildings wouldn't be inside each other when all the afforementioned mods loaded up.

Edited April 15, 2019 by FahmiRBLXian

[Eskandare]

17 minutes ago, Lisias said:

You are right. I don't. But your answers prevented me from chasing my tail while trying to understand it. Thank you.

@Lisias no worries, don't feel bad that you don't know, I've been playing around with KSP since 2013 and There is a lot to learn when it comes to VG design and development. As you asked me questions I was thinking on possible work-arounds. Remember, video game design is the art of illusion.

28 minutes ago, FahmiRBLXian said:

I think just putting segments of ground-looking 'blocks' to form something like an 'artificial hill' alongside the existing terraforming to form a tunnel, ROBLOX Style.

(I remember before the smooth terraforming update was implemented there, users use 3D shapes to shape a terrain (e.g Cuboid for flat land, Sphere for hills) and some ROBLOX ganes still have them to reduce lag (Yes, the new smooth terrain is laggy for toasters). I'll try getting a ROBLOX screenshot on how it works somewhere next week's weekend hopefully).

 

Remember, ROBLOX is a completely different engine and uses some level of voxel graphics mixed with hard mesh. Here in KSP, planets use PQS (procedural quadtree sphere) where the program projects a height map over a sphere and procedurally generates the mesh against the sphere. This is hard coded into KSP and cannot be changed.  Well former developers Harvester and MU explain it better here in this video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mXTxQko-JH0

Here is the only possible workaround, make a new PQS decal (for KK to layer on top of the PQS height map) per haps only a few pixels wide. Create a large mesh with a tunnel going through it and some sort of grass texture that would  blend well with the default grass texture. and put said fake tunnel on the terrain where you placed the map decal. That is similar to Kerbin City except, Kerbin City is a fake peninsula and island.

[Lisias]

2 hours ago, Eskandare said:

@Lisias no worries, don't feel bad that you don't know, I've been playing around with KSP since 2013 and There is a lot to learn when it comes to VG design and development. 

I had misunderstood the "Procedural" thingy. I'm used to create the mesh/terrain/whatever procedurally before hand, and then persisted the data somewhere to be used when needed. Lots of memory being committed on the stunt, but hey, it saves some CPU to be used on something else on realtime.

Mindlock.

The video is on the Watch Queue (saw half of it, didn't got into Mu's yet), but from what you told, it's generated on demand. Silly of me, Planet Packs would be hugely harder to build otherwise, and KSP already have memory highly disputed by textures and Mono's JIT and heap.

In order to "force" my stunt I would need to intercept the target quad generation and patch it by brute force on a post-process. That would probably play havoc on the PQS cache implemented on 1.4.4 and on everything that relies on it (as Kerbal Konstructs) as I would have to keep everything synced and everybody happy at the same time - not to mention the complexity of the stunt itself.

Or at least, it's my current understanding.

[Nightside]

3 minutes ago, Lisias said:

I had misunderstood the "Procedural" thingy. I'm used to create the mesh/terrain/whatever procedurally before hand, and then persisted the data somewhere to be used when needed. Lots of memory being committed on the stunt, but hey, it saves some CPU to be used on something else on realtime.

Mindlock.

The video is on the Watch Queue (saw half of it, didn't got into Mu's yet), but from what you told, it's generated on demand. Silly of me, Planet Packs would be hugely harder to build otherwise, and KSP already have memory highly disputed by textures and Mono's JIT and heap.

In order to "force" my stunt I would need to intercept the target quad generation and patch it by brute force on a post-process. That would probably play havoc on the PQS cache implemented on 1.4.4 and on everything that relies on it (as Kerbal Konstructs) as I would have to keep everything synced and everybody happy at the same time - not to mention the complexity of the stunt itself.

Or at least, it's my current understanding.

Wow- that went over my head, but interesting to see that you are thinking creatively about the issue.

that said... why exactly would you even want a tunnel in KSP? It seems extravagantly useless.

[Lisias]

3 hours ago, FahmiRBLXian said:

3. Under the terrain there will be the tunnel tube with collision mesh, which prevents users seeing the inside of the unmodelled mountain interior and enabling users to actually drive inside the tunnel. And if the tunnel tube is 3/4 cylindrical, one can even do a wallride, a good element of a race challenge!

That's the catch: when crafts goes on rails, they become physicsless, and their positions are calculated using a formula as any celestial body in space.

As a fail-safe measure to guarantee that things would blow when expected to blow, when crafts come back from rails, theirs position are checked against the local height map and if it happens the craft is under the terrain, the game blow it up as it assumes that the craft was on collision course when it was on rails and that was not detected exactly due the craft being on rails.

You would probably be OK with the stunt as long you don't load the game, get out and then come back to the fligh scene or anything else that would trigger the off-rails code.

You probably would not even be able to EVA inside the tunnel.

 

37 minutes ago, Nightside said:

That said... why exactly would you even want a tunnel in KSP? It seems extravagantly useless.

Exactly by that reason!

Why some people climb mountains? Because they are there!

Why other people dig tunnels? Same reason. But they don't wanna climb them!

Edited April 15, 2019 by Lisias
Krakens damned autocompletes.

[Eskandare]

2 hours ago, Lisias said:

 

In order to "force" my stunt I would need to intercept the target quad generation and patch it by brute force on a post-process. That would probably play havoc on the PQS cache implemented on 1.4.4 and on everything that relies on it (as Kerbal Konstructs) as I would have to keep everything synced and everybody happy at the same time - not to mention the complexity of the stunt itself.

Or at least, it's my current understanding.

Bingo! You get it now. It's a pain in the exhaust to do any edits to the PQS, you'd really need to make the hard mesh become a part of the cache and some how marry the two together upon generation. (when I mean hard model, I mean it is predetermined by the modeler and isn't being generated by code.)

To be honest I would love to have tunnels because it would create a new level of design for bases and cities for Supply and Demand (right now S&D is planned to have some tunnel networks but in the model above the PQS generated terrain. 

@Lisias If you're good at coding here is the PQS Class reference: https://kerbalspaceprogram.com/api/class_p_q_s.html     

I'd take a crack at it but I haven't coded for 20 years so I'm pretty rusty.

Edited April 15, 2019 by Eskandare

[Eskandare]

22 hours ago, FahmiRBLXian said:

Looks nice. Any plans to add jet bridges?

I wanted to add jet bridges, but since everyone builds crafts differently in KSP I didn't want to force a standard height  for the bridges and there wouldn't be a way to manually adjust the animations for the bridges. Everyone will just have to use air-stairs  instead.

Edited April 15, 2019 by Eskandare

[FahmiRBLX]

 

3 hours ago, Eskandare said:

I wanted to add jet bridges, but since everyone builds crafts differently in KSP I didn't want to force a standard height  for the bridges and there wouldn't be a way to manually adjust the animations for the bridges. Everyone will just have to use air-stairs  instead.

I think it doesn't matter if the jet bridges didn't match the door height, since we're not going in there anyways.

But four termimals with four different jet bridges could be good, like the jet bridges are optimised for planes constructed with 4 different stock landing gears. Example :

• Terminal 1 and small island-based airports use jet bridges optimised for jets on the small landing gear and Mk-1 fuselage.
• Terminal 2 and large island-based airports use jet bridges optimised for planes on the medium landing gear and Mk-3 fuselage.
• Terminal 3 and mainland-based airports use jet bridges optimised for planes built on the large landing gear.
• Terminal 4 and international hub airports have jet bridges for planes on the extra heavy duty landing gear.

Edited April 15, 2019 by FahmiRBLXian
It's not the kraken, but my small mobile keyboard.