You think the island airfield is hard to land on because it's short?

[GDJ]

Check these real life airports.

Personally I'll go to these on a dare. You only live once, so you might as well have some fun!

(PS. These would be great fun in KSP!)
 

 

[Cadet_BNSF]

Maybe Kerbal Konstructs could be used. Hmm, I'll, get back to you in a couple days 

[AngrybobH]

One big advantage these airports have, none of the planes landing on them were designed by kerbals. Also, their wheels aren't so bouncy. But, some of those would be terrifying the first couple of times you attempted a landing regardless of what you were flying.

[Vanamonde]

As this is only tangentially about KSP, the thread has been moved to the Lounge. 

[YNM]

I've tried landing on Saba in FSX. Not too hard with a Twin Otter XD

[Gargamel]

14 hours ago, AngrybobH said:

Also, their wheels aren't so bouncy.

But they do explode upon landing on the rare occasion.....

 

(OMG.... I went to google "Landing Gear exploding upon Landing".... majority of the first two pages of results link back to the forums LOL).

[LoSBoL]

I just had to watch this to see if Skiathos was in it, and it was! 

I've had the pleasure of doing a stopover there 3 times with a commercial airliner, and it really is an exhilarating experience to both land and take off from with a runway of just 1600 meters. They can only do stopovers there without refeuling because a fully loaded airliner won't be able to take off. I like the experience so much I'd gladly take the detour to my final destination just for the kicks.  After experiencing this, Madeira airport is just 'meh'.

Another 'fun' experience is Samos Airport with the wind blowing in the wrong direction, which happens quite frequently, it's considered the most difficult approach of an airstrip in the whole of Greece.

 

 

[kerbiloid]

These are not runways, but jumpways.
Now I know who were BFR/BFS sponsors.
Indeed, it's easier to land a rocket there, anyway the planes land ballistically.

P.S. Why don't they cut a hole through the rock - for the plane wing?
It could fly without rolling.

Edited May 1, 2018 by kerbiloid

[XB-70A]

Aaaaw... TFFJ is not hard, just a bit surprising at first    Having learned to fly here, the sole and only rule is "Going around is always an option", or as my instructor told me about 11 years ago "Never forgot that we are not coming to land, but for a missed approach. However, if all the bad factors are together, we should be able to land"

It's also here that I "won" my first (and sole to this day) AIRMISS incident...  hopefully the traffic agents were nice and supported that the fault was due to the commercial flight crew.

The funniest being that a spotter sent me some pictures took that day, one before the incident, and one after:

 

Hard to see, but I was about to collapse under the stress and emotions...

 

Also, the runway length is "not" only 646 m as described, but 796 m. Why is "not" under marks? Because due to a crazy (and commercial) story, the threshold was placed right down the La Tourmente hill... so nobody, excepted if you are a Harrier or a helicopter pilot, is able to "touch" here.

To be more precise, 796 m are available to take-off (runway 10 only, as the hill is blocking you on the opposite way), 796 m if you are landing RWY 28 (by the sea, but there is a limited go-around option, still due to the cliff), or approximately 650 m to land RWY 10.

 

Now the crazy reason mentioned before is that in the early 90's, Air Guadeloupe started to operate some Dornier 228 between the islands, followed by Air Saint Martin with the same aircraft, but a problem was preventing them to land at TFFJ: the threshold was displaced at the time, because nobody was stupid enough to try to land at the feet of the cliff, but due to it the runway length was around 670 m, so legally talking it was not enough for the Dorniers to operate from there (even if they absolutely had the performances to). Eventually, a genius found the solution: displace the threshold back to the cliff... simple, legal, and absolutely crazy, but then the Do 228 were authorized to fly to and from St. Barth. The perfect example of how the aviation administrative world is 

 

 

9 hours ago, YNM said:

I've tried landing on Saba in FSX. Not too hard with a Twin Otter XD

This is the airfield I would love to go by myself one day! Alas, some years ago they somewhat unofficially closed Saba to private flights. Now if you are not flying for Winair and with their DHC-6, your request will probably be refused...

In the 90's there also was a Dornier 28 serving here, pretty awesome and even more STOL-able then the Twin Otter, but the aircraft was lost during a night flight. Then, another pilot found a way to get slammed against the relief by a wind burst while attempting to land RWY 12 (at the time 11). The poor Cessna 150 was totally destroyed, but the man surprisingly survived without even a broken arm.

 

Have you tried Les Saintes (TFFS) in FSX? It's the best airfield I ever landed at in reality, 544 x 15 m of concrete available with wind burst shaking you in the last seconds, and overflying the houses of Terre-de-Haut about 20 feet only.

To give you a preview (terrible quality as those are screenshots from VLC):

 

Edited May 1, 2018 by XB-70A

[YNM]

2 hours ago, XB-70A said:

Alas, some years ago they somewhat unofficially closed Saba to private flights.

Yes, only contractual (I think !) flights are allowed (so, Winair's Twin Otter).

I did recreate in FSX their whole "journey" for the flight to Saba : Sint-Marten, then St. Barths, then Saba, then Sint-Martin.

For real flying : Ha. Haha. Hahaha. Ha.

No, no finance.

[kerbiloid]

Somebody should try to make a dynamic runway composed of these

Spoiler

with a short segment of a runway on top.

When they need a runway, let them run one by one, otherwise they do their daily jobs.

Additional advantage: this runway could run itself at say, 50 km/h, making takeoff and landing easier.

[XB-70A]

5 hours ago, YNM said:

I did recreate in FSX their whole "journey" for the flight to Saba : Sint-Marten, then St. Barths, then Saba, then Sint-Martin.

Wait... no trip to St. Kitts?!?!?!? Come on, Robert L. Bradshaw is waiting for you (really, the traffic is dying here).

Edit:

Mea culpa, I just checked the airport data, and Winair is not going there anymore.

 

5 hours ago, YNM said:

No, no finance.

Idem, since 2014...

It's a terribly expensive luxury. From what I can remember, a single hour was costing:

180 euros on the Cessna 172S (one coin per hp...)

180 on the Diamond DA40-180

150 on the Piper PA-28-161

140 on the Diamond DA40NG

120 on the Robin DR400-120

100 on the Aerodynamic WT9

95 on the Piper J-3C (which was unusable most of the time due to the local weather, and so we continuously have to go over the legal 2 months certification...)

Even my favorite of all, the WT9, quickly became unaffordable to me.

 

The best being that where I'm currently "studying", the "flight students" (most being nice daddy's sons) are literally booby-trapped with a 180 dollars/hour price to fly on PA-28-161s... for this price they could go on better airplanes.

Edited May 1, 2018 by XB-70A

[LoSBoL]

On ‎5‎/‎1‎/‎2018 at 5:21 PM, XB-70A said:

Aaaaw... TFFJ is not hard, just a bit surprising at first    Having learned to fly here, the sole and only rule is "Going around is always an option", or as my instructor told me about 11 years ago "Never forgot that we are not coming to land, but for a missed approach. However, if all the bad factors are together, we should be able to land"

 {SNIP}

 

Wow, thats amazing to read first hand! I've only 3 times had to pleasure of holding a stick of a Cessna myself, but these kind of experiences are a complete different dimension. I have complete faith in the piloting skills of others, but to do such things for myself with the responsibility over others, I think I'll pass.

I'm also stunned at this FSX stuff, which I looked in to a bit because of the discussion here. Last time I tried Microsoft Flight Simulator there were still twin towers in it, but to see how far progress has come, wow, just wow. I know Samos like the back of my hand and been there nearly a dozen times, but to see how deceivingly real and detailed everything in FSX is, is simply mindblowing!  I showed segments of this https://youtu.be/CQqzksLiZBw to my wife on a 12" FHD laptop screen, but only after touchdown she realised it wasn't the real thing!

[Capt. Hunt]

I've done Tenzig-Hillary in FSX, it's not on a slope in game, but it is very short with autogen trees right on the end of the runway, not an easy takeoff or landing, even with a STOL.

Edited May 4, 2018 by Capt. Hunt

[YNM]

4 hours ago, Capt. Hunt said:

... It's not on a slope in game, but it is very short with autogen trees right on the end of the runway...

It's known to be bugged. The runway should face the gorge.

[XB-70A]

21 hours ago, LoSBoL said:

Wow, thats amazing to read first hand! I've only 3 times had to pleasure of holding a stick of a Cessna myself, but these kind of experiences are a complete different dimension. I have complete faith in the piloting skills of others, but to do such things for myself with the responsibility over others, I think I'll pass.

Nice! Which Cessna model did you have the chance to fly on?

To me the little C and F150/152 were the best of the family (still, not as good as the PA-38). Light, under-powered for the hot conditions of the Caribbeans (hopefully we were at the sea level...), but really fun and tolerant. I will never forget my first long navigation solo flight (about 4 hours) on one of them. The aircraft was a Reims F150 with the standard 100 hp Lycoming engine, but the owner was absolutely... crazy. When he introduce me to his little offspring, I discovered that he has made a lot of illegal and not-so-useful modifications to his aircraft: he replaced the standard taxi and landing lights by two blue(!) LED landing lights... so the first consequence was that the aircraft was acting as a lighthouse at night, and so could blur anybody looking at it.  Secondly, even if those were LED, their needs in power was so important that when both of the lights were turned on, the alternator had trouble to keep on working normally.

Then, legally this time, the man found that instead of having a standard fixed-pitch propeller giving 50/50 performances in climb and cruise, it was more long-term economic to place a cruise-optimized propeller... so, the already under-powered tin can became a terrible climber! Despite the 3300 m of runway available, it took me about a thousand to accelerate, rotate, and pass the 50 ft of height 

The worst being that the man has placed a lot of crucifix everywhere in the cabin! There even was a small Mary model fixed on the right of the magnetic compass!

At the end, it took me 47 minutes to reach the cruising altitude of 9500 ft, with an average climb rate of 200 ft/min only. I originally dropped a flight-plan announcing an expected cruise alt of 11500, but this F150 was so incompetent that I was not able to pass 9800. Really, it was not possible for me to keep on climbing without losing speed at this level. Then, the funniest part of this flight probably was when I saw the C172SP of the club passing me, about 4000 ft lower under my left wing. The guy departed 15 minutes later than me, but he arrived 15 minutes before me at our common destination.

[Nuke]

theres a float plane dock not too far from here. perfect place to watch crazy people land airplanes. alaskan pilots dont need no stinkin' runway.

Edited May 4, 2018 by Nuke

[LoSBoL]

22 hours ago, XB-70A said:

Nice! Which Cessna model did you have the chance to fly on?

To me the little C and F150/152 were the best of the family (still, not as good as the PA-38). Light, under-powered for the hot conditions of the Caribbeans (hopefully we were at the sea level...), but really fun and tolerant. I will never forget my first long navigation solo flight (about 4 hours) on one of them. The aircraft was a Reims F150 with the standard 100 hp Lycoming engine, but the owner was absolutely... crazy. When he introduce me to his little offspring, I discovered that he has made a lot of illegal and not-so-useful modifications to his aircraft: he replaced the standard taxi and landing lights by two blue(!) LED landing lights... so the first consequence was that the aircraft was acting as a lighthouse at night, and so could blur anybody looking at it.  Secondly, even if those were LED, their needs in power was so important that when both of the lights were turned on, the alternator had trouble to keep on working normally.

Then, legally this time, the man found that instead of having a standard fixed-pitch propeller giving 50/50 performances in climb and cruise, it was more long-term economic to place a cruise-optimized propeller... so, the already under-powered tin can became a terrible climber! Despite the 3300 m of runway available, it took me about a thousand to accelerate, rotate, and pass the 50 ft of height 

The worst being that the man has placed a lot of crucifix everywhere in the cabin! There even was a small Mary model fixed on the right of the magnetic compass!

At the end, it took me 47 minutes to reach the cruising altitude of 9500 ft, with an average climb rate of 200 ft/min only. I originally dropped a flight-plan announcing an expected cruise alt of 11500, but this F150 was so incompetent that I was not able to pass 9800. Really, it was not possible for me to keep on climbing without losing speed at this level. Then, the funniest part of this flight probably was when I saw the C172SP of the club passing me, about 4000 ft lower under my left wing. The guy departed 15 minutes later than me, but he arrived 15 minutes before me at our common destination.

hahaha, that crazy owner sounds like me when it comes to my bike. 

I knew it was a Cessna, but what type? I wouldn't know, its been about 25 years back when I was in my early teens, the plane was from a collegue of my father who had to do flights to keep his licence, and we could tag allong.
I did give my girlfriend (now wife) a lesson of an hour as a birthday present, but that was on a 2 crew plane so I couldn't come for the ride myself. She was smiling from ear to ear though when she came back (alive )

[GDJ]

Wow. I'm not afraid to say I'm jealous of everybody's flight experience. It's one of my bucket list items to do (pilots licence), IF I should live long enough!

The only flight experience I've had was taking the stick in a Glider (specifically, a two seat sailplane), and that was only for about 5 minutes. I still grin when I think back to that experience.

Edited May 5, 2018 by GDJ

[qzgy]

On 5/5/2018 at 10:12 AM, GDJ said:

Wow. I'm not afraid to say I'm jealous of everybody's flight experience. It's one of my bucket list items to do (pilots licence), IF I should live long enough!

The only flight experience I've had was taking the stick in a Glider (specifically, a two seat sailplane), and that was only for about 5 minutes. I still grin when I think back to that experience.

Well thats still better than me. I have literally zero flight experience although I want to learn. However, I think I still have more time than you, judging by how you worded that.....

[Kernel Kraken]

Well the video of a plane hitting a deer and disentigrating it on landing is the closest thing I've seen to exploding landing gear but if the rubber burned and caught on fire and fuel somehow leaked to the gear then I guess it could happen.

[GDJ]

16 minutes ago, qzgy said:

Well thats still better than me. I have literally zero flight experience although I want to learn. However, I think I still have more time than you, judging by how you worded that.....

Oh don't worry. I'm not going anywhere anytime soon.......unless the kids finally drive me to the deep end......but that's another conversation for later.  

[Legacy600]

I think it’s hard because I suck at piloting

[KerbolExplorer]

I think the most difficult landing is on SBH.And short runways are only the beggining  of the problem, the terrain an airport has also depends.Take a look at Princes julliana airport.It has a beach just before landing and has mountains just after take-off but its runway is big enoght for a 747 to land and take off.I tried landing on all airports in FSX and SBH was the most difficult to land on.The Ksc island(or as i called Kanary islands)Is probably inspired by SABA because both have the runway very similar.

P.S. @Legacy600Try a flight sim like flight sim world it has a really good tutorial sistem

[MaverickSawyer]

Island Airfield? Short? Pffft.

 

Granted, that pic was taken back when the stock atmosphere of Kerbin was best described as "soup", but still, one of my favorite "conventional" landings, I.E. no parachutes or VTOL used.