[1.12.5] TechTrees: QUARTIX 3.10, TETRIX 2.26, SIMPLEX 1.36

[Monniasza]

15 hours ago, theJesuit said:

No.  This is instead of the Community Tech Tree.  You can't use them both at the same time.

Peace.

You can integrate Community Tech Tree into it.

[Cruesoe]

1 minute ago, Monniasza said:

You can integrate Community Tech Tree into it.

That makes no sense. The Community Tech Tree mod adds nodes to the existing stock tech tree.

This mod completely reworks the entire tree and is specifically designed to work standalone. 

I do not understand what you mean by integrating the CTT. What do you expect to happen?  Why do you want to use both? What outcome are you expecting?

[Monniasza]

1 minute ago, Cruesoe said:

That makes no sense. The Community Tech Tree mod adds nodes to the existing stock tech tree.

This mod completely reworks the entire tree and is specifically designed to work standalone. 

I do not understand what you mean by integrating the CTT. What do you expect to happen?  Why do you want to use both? What outcome are you expecting?

Preseve CTT tech nodes themselves , but rearrange them to match SIMPLEX and TETRIX. This should preserve tech requirements from mods not supported by TETRIX.

[Cruesoe]

Just now, Monniasza said:

Preseve CTT tech nodes themselves , but rearrange them to match SIMPLEX and TETRIX. This should preserve tech requirements from mods not supported by TETRIX.

But TETRIX does adjust positions of parts in the tech tree to where they fit TETRIX, not necessarily where the mod author put them in the entirety separate CTT.

They are two entirely different Tech Trees.  TETRIX redoes everything, it's not the same as Unkerballed start that changes tech node positions and a few parts too.

Engineering Tech Tree, SlMPLEX, TETRIX are tech tree redo's. Unkerballed start and PBC use the CTT as their base.

CTT does not fit with SIMPLEX and TETRIX goals.

(Apologies if I'm talking out of turn @theJesuit )

[Monniasza]

The tree doesn't work as expected:

How it looks with Hide Empty Tech Tree Nodes:

 

And without it:

 

I have three tech tree mods:

• KSP Interstellar Extended
• SSTO Project
• TETRIX TechTree 1:2.1.1.20200126
• KSP 1.8.1

Edited June 25, 2020 by Monniasza
add KSP version

[theJesuit]

7 hours ago, Monniasza said:

The tree doesn't work as expected:

Hi Monniasza, and thanks @Cruesoe - you are correct, CTT is NOT compatible.

@Monniasza, you are quite right.  This doesn't look correct.

I hadn't noticed your SSTO Project before - looks interesting, but I don't have time to play around with it unfortunately.  I did however explore it on Github to see what you meant by a tech tree mod.  TETRIX will need specific support in either your mod or in TETRIX - the best way you can support is by patching your parts to fit in with the nodes that come in TETRIX, I can provide a list for you if necessary, but they are all listed in the cfg files.  Any nodes you make won't fit particularly well into the aesthetic i'm guessing.  Either that or you can provide a list of where you think your parts should go and I'll include them as a patch.  When you add nodes in the best support is by having :NEEDS[!AngleCanMods/TETRIXTechTree] when the node is created and whenever a part is referencing that node.

SpaceY, KSPIE, and others add nodes, which TETRIX Tech Tree suppresses.  Where this gets difficult is when mods natively support CTT, ETT or whatever, and I have to patch around.  But it has been done before.  SpaceY has only recently been added to support, in 2.4.  If you are using SpaceY, try using a newer version of TETRIX even on KSP 1.8.1 and see what happens.  I'm not really bothering to support older versions with TETRIX, and tend to remove soft depreciated parts and KSP and mods update.

7 hours ago, Monniasza said:

How it looks with Hide Empty Tech Tree Nodes:

<snip>

And without it:

You are right, the screenshots show that it doesn't look right. I can't tell the difference between these two images.

My guess is that the Tetrix Tech tree isn't installed correctly, but to know this you'll need to post a screenshot of your GameData folder.  Is the techtree in Gamedata/AngleCanMods/TETRIXTechTree?  Having it in the AngleCanMods folder is important.

I'm happy to include your mod, but I don't have much time at the moment.  I'll on school holidays in a couple of weeks so I could look at it then if you want.

Peace.

[Monniasza]

15 hours ago, theJesuit said:

Hi Monniasza, and thanks @Cruesoe - you are correct, CTT is NOT compatible.

@Monniasza, you are quite right.  This doesn't look correct.

I hadn't noticed your SSTO Project before - looks interesting, but I don't have time to play around with it unfortunately.  I did however explore it on Github to see what you meant by a tech tree mod.  TETRIX will need specific support in either your mod or in TETRIX - the best way you can support is by patching your parts to fit in with the nodes that come in TETRIX, I can provide a list for you if necessary, but they are all listed in the cfg files.  Any nodes you make won't fit particularly well into the aesthetic i'm guessing.  Either that or you can provide a list of where you think your parts should go and I'll include them as a patch.  When you add nodes in the best support is by having :NEEDS[!AngleCanMods/TETRIXTechTree] when the node is created and whenever a part is referencing that node.

SpaceY, KSPIE, and others add nodes, which TETRIX Tech Tree suppresses.  Where this gets difficult is when mods natively support CTT, ETT or whatever, and I have to patch around.  But it has been done before.  SpaceY has only recently been added to support, in 2.4.  If you are using SpaceY, try using a newer version of TETRIX even on KSP 1.8.1 and see what happens.  I'm not really bothering to support older versions with TETRIX, and tend to remove soft depreciated parts and KSP and mods update.

You are right, the screenshots show that it doesn't look right. I can't tell the difference between these two images.

My guess is that the Tetrix Tech tree isn't installed correctly, but to know this you'll need to post a screenshot of your GameData folder.  Is the techtree in Gamedata/AngleCanMods/TETRIXTechTree?  Having it in the AngleCanMods folder is important.

I'm happy to include your mod, but I don't have much time at the moment.  I'll on school holidays in a couple of weeks so I could look at it then if you want.

Peace.

TETRIX tech Tree is installed by CKAN.

I use newest version of both SpaceY mods.

I've tested SSTO Project compatibility with my development install.

If it works, change KSP version of TETRIX to 1.8.1 - 1.9.1

It worked on dev install

I've uploaded new version of SSTO Project

Here is command prompt printout for GameData directory of main install:

Spoiler

 

 

 

 

Spoiler

C:\GOG Games\Kerbal Space Program\GameData>dir
 Volume in drive C is OS
 Volume Serial Number is 979C-DD3B

 Directory of C:\GOG Games\Kerbal Space Program\GameData

26.06.2020  09:40    <DIR>          .
26.06.2020  09:40    <DIR>          ..
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10.05.2020  10:31    <DIR>          FullAutoStrut
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21.06.2020  19:27    <DIR>          KerbalChangeLog
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26.05.2020  11:05    <DIR>          KerbalKonstructs
12.06.2020  15:17    <DIR>          KerbalRenamer
18.02.2020  20:07    <DIR>          KerbalReusabilityExpansion
17.02.2020  18:02    <DIR>          KerbalStats
24.04.2020  21:05    <DIR>          Kerbaltek
26.04.2020  10:23    <DIR>          KIS
24.06.2020  18:14    <DIR>          Kopernicus
13.05.2020  12:12    <DIR>          kOS
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29.04.2020  14:04    <DIR>          KSCSwitcher
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29.04.2020  12:28    <DIR>          KSP-AVC
12.04.2020  16:10    <DIR>          KspCraftOrganizer
29.02.2020  18:52    <DIR>          KSPWheel
06.03.2020  16:21    <DIR>          KWRocketry
01.03.2020  15:58    <DIR>          Landertron
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30.11.2017  21:14    <DIR>          Lunokhod
02.03.2020  21:19    <DIR>          M22Ind
14.05.2020  21:02    <DIR>          MagiCore
01.04.2020  20:38    <DIR>          MagicSmokeIndustries
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05.04.2020  16:06    <DIR>          Mk1 LFO Fuselage
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05.03.2020  21:56    <DIR>          Mk3Expansion
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14.06.2020  18:41               175 RAPIERpatch.cfg
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02.04.2020  17:02    <DIR>          StationPartsExpansionRedux
18.02.2020  20:07    <DIR>          StationScience
09.06.2020  15:49    <DIR>          StreamlineEnginesTanks
17.02.2020  18:02    <DIR>          StretchySNTextures
28.03.2020  20:23    <DIR>          StructuralDisks
01.04.2020  20:39    <DIR>          TDProps
26.03.2020  10:51    <DIR>          TexturesUnlimited_StockConfig
14.06.2020  18:41    <DIR>          The_Sea_Four
28.02.2020  16:49    <DIR>          ToadicusTools
25.06.2020  11:40             3 589 toolbar-settings.dat
28.02.2020  16:38    <DIR>          Trajectories
23.03.2020  20:44    <DIR>          TriCrossSection
17.02.2020  18:02    <DIR>          TriggerTech
06.06.2020  20:28    <DIR>          TURD
21.04.2020  11:48    <DIR>          TweakableEverything
26.05.2020  13:52    <DIR>          TweakScale
01.03.2020  15:58    <DIR>          udk_lethal_d0se
23.03.2020  20:36    <DIR>          UmbraSpaceIndustries
25.06.2020  10:26    <DIR>          UtilityWeight
25.06.2020  10:26    <DIR>          VABReorienter
19.04.2020  16:15    <DIR>          WarpPlugin
03.05.2020  11:34    <DIR>          WaypointManager
13.06.2020  09:43    <DIR>          WetterWingsMM
28.02.2020  16:38    <DIR>          WhoAmI
09.04.2020  10:41    <DIR>          XenonISRU
28.04.2020  14:51    <DIR>          XyphosAerospace
29.04.2020  14:04    <DIR>          ZeroMiniAVC
25.04.2020  16:05    <DIR>          zFinal_FilterExtensions
29.04.2020  14:10    <DIR>          [x] Science!
               6 File(s)        239 799 bytes
             237 Dir(s)  758 798 819 328 bytes free

 

And for dev install:

Spoiler

Volume in drive C is OS
 Volume Serial Number is 979C-DD3B

 Directory of C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\steamapps\common\Kerbal Space Program\GameData

26.06.2020  10:37    <DIR>          .
26.06.2020  10:37    <DIR>          ..
26.06.2020  09:50    <DIR>          AngleCanMods
22.06.2020  14:46    <DIR>          BAE
26.06.2020  10:37    <DIR>          KerbalEngineer
29.05.2020  18:49    <DIR>          MechJeb2
30.05.2020  09:54    <DIR>          MechJebForAll
01.06.2020  12:22    <DIR>          ModularFuelTanks
22.06.2020  14:45    <DIR>          ModularMFT
29.05.2020  18:49           141 824 ModuleManager.4.1.3.dll
26.06.2020  10:37             9 043 ModuleManager.Physics
26.06.2020  10:37            68 604 ModuleManager.TechTree
06.06.2020  10:37    <DIR>          SMURFF
17.02.2020  17:51    <DIR>          Squad
18.02.2020  20:28    <DIR>          SquadExpansion
26.06.2020  09:42    <DIR>          SSTOProject
30.05.2020  15:34            40 210 SSTOProject 1.2b.zip
31.05.2020  12:25            41 140 SSTOProject 1.2final.zip
09.06.2020  16:58    <DIR>          UniversalRecolour
               5 File(s)        300 821 bytes
              14 Dir(s)  758 984 560 640 bytes free

New main install screenshots will come later today (at least for Poland).

Requsted CKAN update: https://github.com/KSP-CKAN/NetKAN/issues/7997

Edited June 26, 2020 by Monniasza
new info

[Monniasza]

My main install is still broken after updating TETRIX Tech Tree and SSTO Project. I will need to temporarily uninstall KSPIE and open a mod support module creation request on KSPIE bug tracker.

Here is the issue: https://github.com/sswelm/KSP-Interstellar-Extended/issues/587

[linuxgurugamer]

Do you have the mod which hides empty tech tree nodes installed?  I have no idea why, but in my game, I had it installed, uninstalled it while looking for a problen, and then reinstalled it, and the tech tree got bugged just like what you see.

[theJesuit]

4 hours ago, linuxgurugamer said:

Do you have the mod which hides empty tech tree nodes installed?  I have no idea why, but in my game, I had it installed, uninstalled it while looking for a problen, and then reinstalled it, and the tech tree got bugged just like what you see.

@Monniasza, this could be your issue, so  when setting up your dev install it was fresh perhaps?  I don't normally use HideTechTreeNodes so that could definitely be a bug with that mod when it doesn't like being installed and reinstalled.  It would also explain a problem that was expressed on page 1 on by Gordon Dry.

When I'm debugging around Tech Trees I do find that starting a fresh default save every time I go back into the game helps as well.  I have had experiences where things haven't updated correctly on multiple use saves.

 

[Monniasza]

14 hours ago, theJesuit said:

@Monniasza, this could be your issue, so  when setting up your dev install it was fresh perhaps?  I don't normally use HideTechTreeNodes so that could definitely be a bug with that mod when it doesn't like being installed and reinstalled.  It would also explain a problem that was expressed on page 1 on by Gordon Dry.

When I'm debugging around Tech Trees I do find that starting a fresh default save every time I go back into the game helps as well.  I have had experiences where things haven't updated correctly on multiple use saves.

 

Removing HETTN helped. Here is bug report for HETTN-TETRIX conflict: https://github.com/Orthethac/HideEmptyTechTreeNodes/issues/9

[theJesuit]

9 hours ago, Monniasza said:

Removing HETTN helped. Here is bug report for HETTN-TETRIX conflict: https://github.com/Orthethac/HideEmptyTechTreeNodes/issues/9

KSPIE should not be adding nodes, as should by removed by TETRIX upon loading.

SSTO Project, Impossible Innovations and Bargain Rocket Parts Recycled are not listed as supported by TETRIX Tech Tree and without these, Hide Empty TechTreee Nodes I didn't think has an issue with Tetrix Tree, unless you are loading the game sometimes with and sometimes without HETTN.

I'm happy to support these others, but I don't have time at the moment.  You'll have to wait a couple of weeks.  I'm more focused on RL at the moment and a desire to get Simplex Resources updated how I want so that I can continue my current playthrough.

But I'll add them to the list.  Next update should also include the latest OPT updates.

[ev0]

@Monniasza @theJesuit

Hide Empty Tech Tree Nodes (HETTN) runs a plugin to hide empty nodes and do other stuff on the tech tree file generated by ModuleManager, so as long as that MM tree is correct then the HETTN plugin shouldn't have a problem.

I see your conversations on Git, so I will also investigate. It might have something to do with SpaceY? Another issue on my Git says they have that mod installed. KSPIE also requires the CTT, but I think you said KSPIE somehow suppresses that requirement if TETRIX is installed. Does CKAN not download the CTT if you install KSPIE though?

Edited June 27, 2020 by ev0
clarity

[theJesuit]

7 minutes ago, ev0 said:

@Monniasza @theJesuit

Hide Empty Tech Tree Nodes (HETTN) runs a plugin to hide empty nodes and do other stuff on the tech tree file generated by ModuleManager, so as long as that MM tree is correct then the HETTN plugin shouldn't have a problem.

I see your conversations on Git, so I will also investigate. It might have something to do with SpaceY? Another issue on my Git says they have that mod installed. KSPIE also requires the CTT, but I think you said KSPIE somehow suppresses that requirement if TETRIX is installed. Does CKAN not download the CTT if you install KSPIE though?

SpaceY was supported in the most recent versions of TETRIX and the tree does the same - suppressing the creation of nodes.

If CKAN installs CTT with KSPIE then there isn't much I can do about that, that is the responsibility of @FreeThinkerand the CKAN team.

FreeThinker kindly did give me assistance in developing TETRIX with what nodes were required specifically for KSPIE and the mods it includes and another issue could be that TETRIX itself adds a couple of nodes if KSPIE is installed (a 2*node 10th tier for the warp components).  So if KSPIE is being added and removed (or any other mods that are adding in nodes for that matter) I have found that MM struggles to maintain techtree integrity inside a save game you are using a specific save game for testing.  It seems a little random, but if you start fresh each time there shouldn't be a problem.

In testing I always start a 'new' default save game to avoid any issues. 

Peace.

[Iodyne]

On 6/27/2020 at 1:29 PM, theJesuit said:

Next update should also include the latest OPT updates.

I just saw this now, so I'm guessing this isn't needed but I made it before I saw:

//OPT_reconfig fix
@PART:HAS[#TechRequired[covertAero]]:AFTER[OPT_Reconfig]
{
	@TechRequired = appliedAerospaceTech
}
@PART:HAS[#TechRequired[covertAero2]]:AFTER[OPT_Reconfig]
{
	@TechRequired = interstellarPropulsion
}
@TechTree:AFTER[OPT_Reconfig]
{
	!RDNode:HAS[#id[covertAero]] {}
	!RDNode[covertAero2] {}
}

For OPT reconfig, either syntax for removing the nodes works.

[theJesuit]

1 hour ago, Iodyne said:

I just saw this now, so I'm guessing this isn't needed but I made it before I saw:

//OPT_reconfig fix
@PART:HAS[#TechRequired[covertAero]]:AFTER[OPT_Reconfig]
{
	@TechRequired = appliedAerospaceTech
}
@PART:HAS[#TechRequired[covertAero2]]:AFTER[OPT_Reconfig]
{
	@TechRequired = interstellarPropulsion
}
@TechTree:AFTER[OPT_Reconfig]
{
	!RDNode:HAS[#id[covertAero]] {}
	!RDNode[covertAero2] {}
}

For OPT reconfig, either syntax for removing the nodes works.

 

Could be.  @JadeOfMaar provided the configs specifically for me.  I just haven't had the time to put them in and give them a whirl yet.  RL is busy when you have a job in New Zealand and don't have lock downs!

 

[theonegalen]

Going to try this in a Near Future focused install on my new computer! I finally have enough RAM, CPU, and GPU to install all the part mods I want!

(Until I want more)

EDIT: @theJesuit, what contract pack do you usually use or recommend with this tree?

Edited August 6, 2020 by theonegalen

[theJesuit]

3 hours ago, theonegalen said:

Going to try this in a Near Future focused install on my new computer! I finally have enough RAM, CPU, and GPU to install all the part mods I want!

(Until I want more)

EDIT: @theJesuit, what contract pack do you usually use or recommend with this tree?

I don't normally play with contract packs but turn off a number of stock ones for personal taste. So mix and and see what happens!

I normally play 50% science, 100% funds and 100% rep.  Then only have world firsts, bases, satellites, flags.  No rescueing/recovery, isru, grandtours or tourists, survey or part testing.  (That is off the top of my head).  I pay for my kerbals which is how I balance the money game play. 

[theonegalen]

Ok, so just off the bat, the lack of batteries in the Start node of the TETRIX tree really limits one's options. The only useful science I can get is through probes sitting on the launchpad and runway, as well as from the Worlds First Milestones for breaking altitude and distance records. I was able to just barely get 15 science points to open up one of the tier 1 nodes.

[theJesuit]

14 hours ago, theonegalen said:

Ok, so just off the bat, the lack of batteries in the Start node of the TETRIX tree really limits one's options. The only useful science I can get is through probes sitting on the launchpad and runway, as well as from the Worlds First Milestones for breaking altitude and distance records. I was able to just barely get 15 science points to open up one of the tier 1 nodes.

It is a valid point - I think I added extra EC capacity to probe cores to compensate?  You may need a couple of sounding rockets to get the low atmo science. 

[eatU4myT]

 

On 1/26/2020 at 7:53 PM, theJesuit said:

...

• Swapped Mk3 and Mk2 space plane tiers. Mk3 now Tier 5, Mk2 now Tier 6

...

 

I don't know if it has already been discussed, but can I ask what the rationale is behind having the MK2 spaceplane parts arrive after the MK3?

I am a perpetual re-starter, and despite many hours in KSP I'm only really starting to dabble in spaceplanes, so the likelyhood is that there is something I just don't know yet...!

Thanks

Edited August 9, 2020 by eatU4myT

[theJesuit]

5 hours ago, eatU4myT said:

 I don't know if it has already been discussed, but can I ask what the rationale is behind having the MK2 spaceplane parts arrive after the MK3?

Congratulations, as you are the first person to query this!

The reason was in terms of progression really.  Space planes *still* don't truly exist in real life.  The shuttle was developed yes, but that is Mk3 analogy.

The Mk3 is a craft that feels like it fits with the J-90 "Goliath" Turbofan Engine, an engine that in the real world is like any Boeing or Airbus long haul engine and we've had these from the 1970's?   The Mk2 IMHO fits better with the end game (for stock anyway) Rapier - which IRL is still in development.

It was a change from what it I had originally, hence the note in the changelog, but when I sat down to rethink progression for Tetrix, I realised that the only reason I have Mk2 before Mk3 was because of the naming - and that didn't hold enough weight for me.

5 hours ago, eatU4myT said:

I am a perpetual re-starter, and despite many hours in KSP I'm only really starting to dabble in spaceplanes, so the likelyhood is that there is something I just don't know yet...!

As am I, although more recently I have slowed this down with some goals in mind.  And I like being closely allied to a stock part playthrough, although once my duna expedition with kerbalism returns, I'll probably retire my save to enjoy  1.10.1 goodness, and allow myself the joy of propeller planes at the start and use more plane parts.

Also the Mk2 parts fit better higher up the tree tiers with the drone core's abilities.

If you think that it is being unfairly penalised, then I'm happy to reconsider, or I could offer you an MM patch if you want to change them for yourself.   

Peace.

[eatU4myT]

12 minutes ago, theJesuit said:

Space planes *still* don't truly exist in real life.  The shuttle was developed yes, but that is Mk3 analogy.

That's interesting, because I've always looked at the mk2 and seen an SR71 Blackbird, which would make it 70s tech - and before the mk3. As I say, I've never really tried for a spaceplane before, and have only used the mk2 parts to make a Mach 2-3 aeroplane to fly around on Kerbin to quickly fulfil contracts!

The main thing that spurred me to ask this was that I've just installed Nertea's mk4 spaceplane parts, and now under TETRIX I've got a few mk4 parts in tier 4, mk3 in tier 5, mk2 in tier 6 and the more "experimental" mk4 parts in tier 7. Not saying it's wrong, it just confused me a bit!

[Xt007]

The balance and placement of everything is very nice.  The integration of near future and kspie is much appreciated.  Currently playing in 1.10.1 and all is good.  I'm also playing with snacks and progressive colonization, anyone know what mods will fill the last of the tree for colonization?

[theJesuit]

1 hour ago, eatU4myT said:

That's interesting, because I've always looked at the mk2 and seen an SR71 Blackbird, which would make it 70s tech - and before the mk3. As I say, I've never really tried for a spaceplane before, and have only used the mk2 parts to make a Mach 2-3 aeroplane to fly around on Kerbin to quickly fulfil contracts!

The main thing that spurred me to ask this was that I've just installed Nertea's mk4 spaceplane parts, and now under TETRIX I've got a few mk4 parts in tier 4, mk3 in tier 5, mk2 in tier 6 and the more "experimental" mk4 parts in tier 7. Not saying it's wrong, it just confused me a bit!

I don't disagree about the Blackbird from the design aesthetic - that's another reason why it i had them initially around the other way on first release.  But you wouldn't necessarily take the Blackbird into orbit? The Mk2 on the other hand... the  mk1 also.

The Mk4 spaceplane parts should all be in tier 7 or 8 (I can't remember which) so this is an issue.  Thanks for pointing it out.  Not sure why this has gone wrong.  I'm having a look...

- I never included it!  Okay.  I'll have a look at some point when I have time (maybe tomorrow?) I can send you an DM to create a CFG to put this in place

1 hour ago, Xt007 said:

The balance and placement of everything is very nice.  The integration of near future and kspie is much appreciated.  Currently playing in 1.10.1 and all is good.  I'm also playing with snacks and progressive colonization, anyone know what mods will fill the last of the tree for colonization?

There is a derth of mods for colonization.  SSPX will provide centrifuges for tier 7, and Deep Freeze should is will give a tier 8 and tier 9 options as well.  Hoevere, in looking this up for you, I've discovered an incorrect reference in the DeepFreeze patch which reads colonialSupport, not populationManagement.  This will be corrected in the next update ( you can correct it yourself if you install  DeepFreeze).

I do dream of someone creating a simple population mechanic to be similar to KSP2, with a part (parts) that I'd put into tier 8 for kerbals to spawn from.  Possibly it could happen with Contract Configurator but I struggle with the contract settings.  I guess I could put Civilian Population there, but that mod feels as though it should be earlier like tier 7.

So, next update is planned for when Restock updates.

Peace!