ISS Discussion Thread

[sh1pman]

2 hours ago, tater said:

Chump change

They should check around SLS somewhere for a few spare billions

[magnemoe]

8 hours ago, tater said:

https://www.nasa.gov/press-release/nasa-selects-first-commercial-destination-module-for-international-space-station

"On Feb. 28, 2020, NASA awarded Axiom a firm-fixed price, indefinite-delivery, indefinite-quantity contract with a maximum potential value, inclusive of options, of $140 million over an up to seven-year ordering period consisting of a five-year base period and a two-year option. "

Chump change. Axiom wants to build it anyway.

The other LEO station concepts have also been given a little bit of money. The goal is commercial stations with NASA as an anchor customer.

This, NASA want to rent space on an commercial station. 
I assume this is an multi year long rent allowing them to add multiple labs who kind of makes the project almost profitable. 
Add other countries, companies and tourists. 
So yes this has benefits like an hotel services , and restaurant and bar down the line. 

[kerbiloid]

Are the Axiom, Bigelow, and other non-LOP-G modules self-propelled?

[tater]

3 minutes ago, kerbiloid said:

Are the Axiom, Bigelow, and other non-LOP-G modules self-propelled?

Bigelow is not a thing any more, but the other stations, Orbital Reef, etc, are all free fliers, so they must have boosting as part of the plan.

[kerbiloid]

9 minutes ago, tater said:

the other stations, Orbital Reef, etc, are all free fliers, so they must have boosting as part of the plan.

I.e. they totally depend on the SS/SH success?

Or does "free flier" mean that they can fly on their own?

Edited June 16, 2022 by kerbiloid

[tater]

2 minutes ago, kerbiloid said:

I.e. they totally depend on the SS/SH success?

None of them involve Starship whatsoever.

Axiom modules might get launched with Falcon (?). Orbital Reef is Blue Origin, so New Glenn is LV. Nanoracks? Any commercial launcher.

2 minutes ago, kerbiloid said:

Or does "free flier" mean that they can fly on their own?

Yes, they fly on their own. Axiom will start attached to ISS, then separate. The others I think are on their own from the start.

[Gargamel]

As predicted by the visionaries (no seriously, report it instead of just commenting), overlapping threads have been merged. 

[swjr-swis]

So, basically we just need someone to fly up a self-boosting station core with an expandable multi-dock truss, and things will grow from there by renting out -and eventually, expand- the docking space?

Incentive for the early bird renters to get their modules close to the core. Incentive for the core owner to provide/maintain the core services since there's already multiple parties with a committed interest, of which several national or even international level, and at least one existing station that needs replacing in the very near future.

Why is this not in the plans of the Elon Musks et al, as something much more immediately attainable (with a much more realistic RoI) than say, Moon landings or Mars one-way trips? Too mundane for them?

[kerbiloid]

3 minutes ago, swjr-swis said:

and things will grow from there by renting out -and eventually, expand- the docking space?

Spoiler

 

Edited June 16, 2022 by kerbiloid

[Beccab]

13 minutes ago, swjr-swis said:

So, basically we just need someone to fly up a self-boosting station core with an expandable multi-dock truss, and things will grow from there by renting out -and eventually, expand- the docking space?

Why would that happen, considering that it isn't happening with the ISS? Since the ISS's completion, only two commercial companies have attached a module there - the Bigelow test module, a precursor for what were at the time going to be standalone inflatable station, and the (rather tiny) Nanoracks bishop airlock. The only other big commercial module intended to go to the ISS before its retirement are the Axiom modules, which again are only to prepare to detach and create a standalone space station, which hardly makes for a business model that justifies the construction of what you are suggesting

18 minutes ago, swjr-swis said:

at least one existing station that needs replacing in the very near future.

There are already three space stations that will replace the ISS in the near future

[swjr-swis]

1 minute ago, Beccab said:

Why would that happen, considering that it isn't happening with the ISS?

The last series of comments about the ISS being too outdated to serve this purpose and discussing alternatives answers the why. I thought the conversation was already past that point.

 

8 minutes ago, Beccab said:

There are already three space stations that will replace the ISS in the near future

Jolly good, then it's all solved already. Which ones are those btw, and when are their launch dates?

[Beccab]

6 minutes ago, swjr-swis said:

Jolly good, then it's all solved already. Which ones are those btw, and when are their launch dates?

Thanks for the question! 

- Axiom's station, of which the first module launches two years from now and which is in various stages of construction at Thales; their first astronauts went to the ISS a couple months ago as well

- Orbital Reef, built by Boeing, Blue Origin and Sierra Nevada, which was selected last year together with Starlab to begin launches in five years 

 

- Starlab, a single launch station built by Nanoracks and Lockheed Martin, also supposed to launch in five years


All three have been selected and funded by NASA from development as a successor to the ISS in Low Earth Orbit

[Codraroll]

8 hours ago, Beccab said:

- Axiom's station, of which the first module launches two years from now ...

... launches in five years ...

... launch in five years ...

Here's the caveat, I suppose. According to the rule of thumb of spaceflight, anything announced to happen in two years or more, is just as likely never to happen at all. And up until the moment of launch, delays must be expected (after that, they merely may be expected).

Still, three sets of plans independently working towards similar goals is nothing to scoff at.  Chances are good at least one will pull through.

[tater]

5 minutes ago, Codraroll said:

Here's the caveat, I suppose. According to the rule of thumb of spaceflight, anything announced to happen in two years or more, is just as likely never to happen at all. And up until the moment of launch, delays must be expected (after that, they merely may be expected).

Still, three sets of plans independently working towards similar goals is nothing to scoff at.  Chances are good at least one will pull through.

Axiom is already making the first module—which Thales is building (same mfg as the other US modules).

[tater]

https://blogs.nasa.gov/spacestation/2022/06/20/cygnus-reboost-aborted-next-steps-being-planned/

 

[tater]

This is so cool:

 

[tater]

 

[JoeSchmuckatelli]

Maybe it's time to let that old darling go?

Aside from 'what are the effects of microgravity on humans' and 'how do we keep humans healthy in space'... what really are we doing on ISS?

What We Learned This Year from Space Station Science | NASA

I'd certainly want one of these follow-on space stations to be a lock... but what's really the need for ISS once we have something that applies the lessons learned?

[kerbiloid]

49 minutes ago, JoeSchmuckatelli said:

Aside from 'what are the effects of microgravity on humans' and 'how do we keep humans healthy in space'... what really are we doing on ISS?

Same, but in space and not virgin.

It's keeping things right.

Edited July 26, 2022 by kerbiloid

[SunlitZelkova]

3 hours ago, JoeSchmuckatelli said:

Maybe it's time to let that old darling go?

Aside from 'what are the effects of microgravity on humans' and 'how do we keep humans healthy in space'... what really are we doing on ISS?

What We Learned This Year from Space Station Science | NASA

I'd certainly want one of these follow-on space stations to be a lock... but what's really the need for ISS once we have something that applies the lessons learned?

Because China is doing LEO long duration flight too That science actually seems pretty useful.

[Nightside]

What does Russia need to operate it's section of the ISS, aren't its modules pretty much self contained stations? Does it produce enough power on its own?

 

How about the US/International section? Obviously it needs a propulsion unit, although it seems like Cygnus is able to provide that capability.

 

[JoeSchmuckatelli]

9 hours ago, SunlitZelkova said:

Because China is doing LEO long duration flight too That science actually seems pretty useful.

I don't disagree... But I do think that legacy hardware and along the way compromise is likely limiting the utility of the station at this point. 

I'd like to see a 'lessons learned' and 'the next level of science' plan put together that will utilize the current and very near future lift capability - to create the next great space station. 

But what I think will happen is that some company will put up a prestige piece, mostly for the 1,000 billionaires that have already checked Everest off their list... And then some stuff will get added piecemeal to that for lack of a better place to park it 

Edited July 27, 2022 by JoeSchmuckatelli

[kerbiloid]

When the Russian segment has separated and starts orbiting on its own on a close orbit, the ISS space tourists will be watching a huge orbital station passing by at fifty meters distance, at airplane speed.

Edited July 27, 2022 by kerbiloid

[SunlitZelkova]

12 hours ago, SunlitZelkova said:

Because China is doing LEO long duration flight too

@JoeSchmuckatelli So I crossed this part out originally, but now that I am remembering it, way back in 2020 I watched Administrator Bridenstine do a budget hearing live, and I recall him mentioning China launching their space station and becoming a competitor to the US station as a reason to extend ISS funding to 2030.

So that is indeed an actual reason we are keeping it.

As for a replacement, what you said is basically the plan. Axiom is adding a module a couple years from now oriented towards tourism with limited science facilities, and then it will grow into its own thing that can separate and be independent come 2030.

So the reason the ISS will keep going isn’t because of a need for the ISS itself- the replacement just isn’t ready yet, and won’t be for awhile.

[kerbiloid]

Also, now there is an experience of providing the artificial gravity onboard, so the hotel conditions will be of luxury class.