[1.3.1 <= KSP <= 1.12.5] KAX - Kerbal Aircraft Expansion KAX — Under Lisias' Management — v2.8.1.1 [2024-0704]

[Daniel Prates]

Holy crap, KAX is back! For a long time this had the only non-stock decent landing gear in all of kervaldom.

I am a bit confused. Space Dock rates this 1.7, but this forum page says 1.4. I am only waiting for a confirmation about the... well, updateness of this mod to go ahead and install it!

[kcs123]

37 minutes ago, Daniel Prates said:

Holy crap, KAX is back! For a long time this had the only non-stock decent landing gear in all of kervaldom.

I am a bit confused. Space Dock rates this 1.7, but this forum page says 1.4. I am only waiting for a confirmation about the... well, updateness of this mod to go ahead and install it!

Answer is on previous page, just few post before yours:

Title says ">=1.4", but I was confused too, I was not certain is it work in KSP 1.7.

[Lisias]

On 5/14/2019 at 6:08 PM, Daniel Prates said:

Holy crap, KAX is back! For a long time this had the only non-stock decent landing gear in all of kervaldom.

I am a bit confused. Space Dock rates this 1.7, but this forum page says 1.4. I am only waiting for a confirmation about the... well, updateness of this mod to go ahead and install it!

YES! It works on 1.7!! :-) 

And the Thread Forum says ">= 1.4". 

1.7 is bigger than 1.4, so it applies. And since I said >=, it means that it works too to 1.4.0. And 1.4.1. And 1.4.2. And 1.4.3. And 1.4.4. And 1.4.5. And 1.6. And 1.6.1. And 1.7. So I put ">= 1.4" and called a day.  

 

 

On 5/14/2019 at 6:48 PM, kcs123 said:

Title says ">=1.4", but I was confused too, I was not certain is it work in KSP 1.7.

 

Edited May 18, 2019 by Lisias

[OPBlue]

Would Cold War era planes fit into the pre WW1 and post WW2 category? 

[Lisias]

On 5/14/2019 at 5:12 PM, kcs123 said:

Ah, no, you missunderstand me (I should explained better). I was not thinking about firespitter dependency, I was thinking about that propeler I was not yet try in game:

<small, Right Brother styles engines>

Oh, yes. The Vintage Propelators!

It's some months since I tried them, so...

KAX + Firespiter + TweakScale. Will be included on the Ships/SPH on the next release.

I think they're a bit overpowered, but given the weight of the stock parts, it's understandable. I'm optimistic enough to believe we will have some wooden and canvas parts to match them.

 

Edited May 19, 2019 by Lisias
Weird grammars...

[Lisias]

1 hour ago, OPBlue said:

Would Cold War era planes fit into the pre WW1 and post WW2 category? 

Cold War is post WW2. Let's say between WW2 and Korea War?

I have a deal with the previous maintainers, and I intent to keep up to my word:

Quote

• KAX will remain KAX
  • it will not be rolled into another Add'On
  • it can be expanded
    • expansions must be in keeping with the tone of the Add'On
    • it must be vaguely (as much as possible) stockalike.

This project aims to preserve the stock a like compatibility and versatility of these parts, and any subsequent parts will be designed with that in mind. The goal is that any new part will blend seamlessly with the current parts and add to rather than detract from the Add'Ons functionality.

So, right now, we have a small collection of parts. All of them somewhat at the same style - except by a few ones, as the Vintage Propelators - they are the Black Sheep on this small herd. However, they are here to stay, so I will keep this going - I just loved these little engines. Wright Brother's airplanes, excellent! Now I need some Santos Dummont aircraft parts and we can start our little version of the 1st World War ourselves!!!  (oh, yeas… rivalry.  )

It's interesting to note that the 2M parts cope very well with Firespitter's Bomber ones. So we have another match to pursue.

There're no jets, except the uncompleted jump-jet. And this one just doesn't fits - the first Harriers came to the skies only on the Sixties, on the Age of the Jet - that's exactly what everybody else has already covered. Unless we find a historic or practical reason to further develop it, I don't know what to do with it - no to mention the huge effort I expect to make this thing to work properly (animations!!).

What I envision for KAX (and, remembering, the parts must "blend" to Stock ones - we are adding to the game, no replacing things) are parts that would allow us to fly things like:

• Experimental Aircrafts (well, this one will be hard to blend!  )
  • Wright Brothers
  • Santos Dummond
  • Whitehead
  • Gabriel Voisin
• Civilian Aircrafts
  • Steel Biplanes
  • Fokker F-2, Fokker F-32
  • G.A.L.38 
  • Spirit of Saint Louis
  • Boeing 247, DC-2, DC3
  • Constellation, Super Constellation
  • Catalina!
• Military Aircrafts
  • B-24
  • B-36 (I'm dying for a B-36 cockpit!!!)
  • P-61
  • C-119

Some of the aircrafts above had born in the early Cold War years. But I pretty sure that you also aim beauties like the F-80 Shooting Star, F-89 Scorpion, F94 Starfire, or the F-100 Super Sabre - not to mention the F-86 Sabre and B-47 . And there're also the MIGs, that marvelous RAF fighters and V-Bombers.

Problem is… They are jets. And there're already Add'Ons covering them. We would ending up getting a fat KAX, with very little value added… 

 

 

 

On 3/13/2019 at 5:12 PM, kcs123 said:

I know that reverse thrust was working back then. Don't know if any other mod have decent electric motors beside KAX. Anyhow, at least you have narrowed down issue, take your time to take care of it.

On 3/15/2019 at 9:11 AM, AFF said:

P.S. We need more powerful electric prop, like this) https://www.siemens.com/press/en/feature/2015/corporate/2015-03-electromotor.php ]

I will need some guidance on this. There're some electrical props on FireSpitter, there're some on KAX. I don't know exactly what you guys need - and we have to remember that we would need a electricity source to feed such engines!

 

6 hours ago, OPBlue said:

Wish me luck on my dreaded upcoming STAAR tests this Wednesday and Thursday. its the one that determines if i go to high school and i have to be tested on science and social studies which i suck at remembering. (btw the STAAR test is Texas's end of year test that usually determines if we move on to the next grade.)

Good luck!

Edited May 15, 2019 by Lisias

[OPBlue]

Also I am sorry if I am annoying with the amount of questions I ask and how I get ahead of myself at times. I do try to not be annoying and i sit here for 30+ minutes just staring at my post before i upload it so it doesn't seem annoying and so i get the appropriate response. And I do have some social anxiety which contributes to that. But i just wanted to let you know so you know why i act weird. Also my grammar sucks, so please excuse my grammar.  

[shdwlrd]

Lisias, Have you considered doing some early helicopter parts to go with the main and tail rotors? Helis started to become popular in the late 40's and became a main stay in the 50's during the Korean war. There's a bunch of early Sikorsky and Bell models that could be fun and useful in the game. Or some of the more modern civilian helicopters. (Expect the Bell Ranger, it's the Huey. Another mod or two has that body if I remember correctly.)

[Modding Maniac]

are we getting some new parts? a huey cockpit, mk 1 cargo bay or b-36 cockpit would be nice, or really big long wings! maybe even turbojets!

[Lisias]

5 hours ago, OPBlue said:

Also I am sorry if I am annoying with the amount of questions I ask and how I get ahead of myself at times. I do try to not be annoying and i sit here for 30+ minutes just staring at my post before i upload it so it doesn't seem annoying and so i get the appropriate response. And I do have some social anxiety which contributes to that. 

Don't worry. Anxiety is the most common disorder nowadays, and I have my share on it.

Try to care a bit less about being annoying and thrust that people will tell you when it happens (believe, they do! ). Now and then a moderator hints in private when I do, and other than a small felling of being stupid, I'm unscratched.

Spoiler

And the ability to mentally giving the finger when the other guy is being unnecessarily harsh or aggressive is... Therapeutic!

Learn how to block aggressive people and you see your life getting easier. Don't worry, they would do the same for you.

And you can always unblock them when the heat ends!

And to make things clear, you are not being annoying . We are brainstorming, one of the most important phases of any work.

We throw ideas to each other and see what sticks. Some ideas are stupidly awesome, some are awesomely stupid, and most of them just useless. But without such brainstorming, we wouldn't know which is what.

I'm exposing my plans, but between what I plan and what I can do there's a gap . Such brainstormings also helps to identify such gaps.

This is just common businesses. You get used to it.

 

6 hours ago, OPBlue said:

 Also my grammar sucks, so please excuse my grammar.  

Relax. Mine is worse - check my constant post editions

 

5 hours ago, shdwlrd said:

Lisias, Have you considered doing some early helicopter parts to go with the main and tail rotors? 

Yep. Not sure how to avoid overlapping existing parts from other Add'Ons, however.

I usually prefer to fix something that's already exists than to recreating something from scratch.

Shoving hundreds of parts on KAX would make it hard to maintain, leading to bit rotting, what ends up hindering what we intend to do.

So, my first approach is to fix what already exists, then work KAX to seamlessly copes with it (or vice versa).

Bringing it to KAX is always an option, but one of the later ones. And niche parts can always be a companion Add-On, sometimes I play with the idea to make KAX something like an franchise. 

 

3 hours ago, Modding Maniac said:

are we getting some new parts? a huey cockpit, mk 1 cargo bay or b-36 cockpit would be nice, or really big long wings! maybe even turbojets!

The B36 cockpit is a dream, it's something that I intent to pursue. Some other cockpits too, something like Super Constellation . The current Horizon has a lot of unexplored potential too.

MK1 cargo bay is already available (don't remember the Add'On now). And it's pretty good.

I think I saw a Huey cockpit somewhere, but if I'm mistaken or the existing one doesn't copes with Stock, this can be an option.

Something that's lacking are boarding hatches. Real, working ones.

The problem with wings and turbo jets is that there're a lot of them already on other Add'Ons! Not to mention the Stock ones, in which KAX aim to adhere seamlessly.

Unless they are inherently flawed and can't be fixed (due being used as is by a lot of gamers, inducing inertia), I have some reluctancy on expending energy on them. Krakens knows how many energy will be needed just to complete what we already have!

[Daniel Prates]

10 hours ago, Lisias said:

1.7 is bigger than 1.4, so it applies. And since I said >=, it means that it works too to 1.4.0. And 1.4.1. And 1.4.2. And 1.4.3. And 1.4.4. And 1.4.5. And 1.6. And 1.6.1. And 1.7. So I put ">= 1.4" and called a day.  

 

Hehe. Ok, thanks for the mathematic notation class. It is not... usual, so I missed it in a first reading.

 

[kcs123]

13 hours ago, Lisias said:

On 3/15/2019 at 1:11 PM, AFF said:

P.S. We need more powerful electric prop, like this) https://www.siemens.com/press/en/feature/2015/corporate/2015-03-electromotor.php ]

I will need some guidance on this. There're some electrical props on FireSpitter, there're some on KAX. I don't know exactly what you guys need - and we have to remember that we would need a electricity source to feed such engines!

Yes, I was thinking about same craft and more specific SP260D engine that powers it. Found some more data about it(links were buried somewhere on siemens page) and mentioned it in APP thread long time ago:

Unfortunately, blackheart612 was seeking for accurate blueprints for exact replica. I don't think that is necessary for in game purpose.
What we know from this datasheet is engine power of 260 kW, weight of 50 kg and engine efficiency of 95%.
Obviously we lack a lot more of other data, but I would suggest that by using mentioned data we seek for some piston engine of similar 260 kW power (~349 hp for easier search/comparison). With data from such piston engine, how much of thrust it can provide on any given altitude we can get thrust/altitude or thrust/air preassure curve.

But slightly better than chosen piston engine. Reason is that unlike piston engines, electric engine does not need oxygen as part of fuel source that feeds engine. Piston engines lose power with altitude due to lack of oxygen needed for combustion. Modern turbocharged engines are slightly better, but still have limitations with it. On the other hand electric engine with propeler lose thrust with altitude only because there is not enough air particles that propeler can push and provide thrust from it. It also does not need oxygen in air, so it can be useful on celestial bodies that have atmosphere but with too low oxygen in it.

As for 3D model of such engine, does not have to be anything fancy, something like KSP stock small nose cone of 0.625m with propeler blades attached to it (~ 1.25m of diameter should be good enough in my opinion). Either, 3 or 4 blade propeler will be good enough. Whole engine with adjustable pitch propeler blades should weight around 70 kg. If pictures from siemes page are not good enough as reference for 3D mesh model, you might find some inspiration from video:

As power source, we already have batteries in stock game as well as from various mods. We also have solar panels to charge those bateries. There is also plans for B9PW to have solar panels built in wings, so we are covered in that regard. From provided datasheet we know that engine have efficiency of 95%. That should help with decision how to set energy drain from batteries appropriately. Should be better energy efficient engine than current electrical engine in KAX while more powerful at same time. Existing engine is nice, but I always found it odd how to surface attach it to craft (too long 3D mesh model).

You can also use existing sound effects from existing electrical engine, maybe slightly change pitch frequency just to have some difference but not absolutely necessary.

The rest will be up to players to create some nice crafts with it. My small contribution to brainstorming whole idea.

[OPBlue]

Edit READ FIRST: I mistook this mod for Airplane+ so there are some errors but I posted an updated version of this.

After I finished my STAAR test while I was waiting for my parents to pick me up I thought of a few ideas for KWX (Kerbal Weapon eXpansion) if it's gonna be a thing later:

• MK1 and MK2 Cargo Bays that opens and deploys a turret or missile pod
• Copying the Non-commercial cockpits and adding cameras and radars
• Making some of the prop engines have guns mounted to them like some WW2 fighter craft
• Size 2 (possibly MK3) Tails with 1.25m mounting at the end for Tail-guns
• 1.25m Viewers Cockpit(s) with a turret as a tail gunner for the Size 2 tail above

Those are just some ideas i thought up of. And if KWX goes in the direction of air based combat it may be named KAWX (Kerbal Aviator's Weapons eXpansion). Once I learn how to make mods using BD-Armory and get approval from Lisias, I will open up a development thread for KWX so i can get help and suggestions. Also I would like to mention that I know very little of real life planes,  so please excuse me if i don't know some things that are pretty obvious. But for now i just got a notification from YouTube saying the next Life is Strange 2 episode came out so I'm gonna watch that. Also when Lisias said 1.4 >= it means Greater or Equal to 1.4 (nerd alert!)

Edited May 26, 2019 by OPBlue
Realization that I made a mistake

[shdwlrd]

9 hours ago, Lisias said:

Yep. Not sure how to avoid overlapping existing parts from other Add'Ons, however.

I usually prefer to fix something that's already exists than to recreating something from scratch.

That's why I suggested early helos. There's no open girder tail booms, and there are some really "interesting" cockpit designs for some. Good example is the Bell H series helicopters from the 50's. But I understand it's a later goal, and well, just throwing out ideas.  

Some more ideas, ultra light aircraft parts. 

My only official request is to see a P38 cockpit and proper tail booms for it. The rest can be from either stock or other mods.

[Lisias]

4 hours ago, shdwlrd said:

 just throwing out ideas.  

That's the spirit!  

7 hours ago, kcs123 said:

What we know from this datasheet is engine power of 260 kW, weight of 50 kg and engine efficiency of 95%.
Obviously we lack a lot more of other data, but I would suggest that by using mentioned data we seek for some piston engine of similar 260 kW power (~349 hp for easier search/comparison). With data from such piston engine, how much of thrust it can provide on any given altitude we can get thrust/altitude or thrust/air preassure curve.

Electrical engines have a lot of more torque too. This is something that should be modeled somehow. Firespitter is the ideal module for this, as it models power, torque and props (and not just "thrust"). I understand the reasons by some people prefers stock engines, but they are utterly inadequate for piston and/or propeleres engines. 

I need to find some common ground on it.

[kcs123]

@OPBlue, good luck on test !

16 hours ago, Lisias said:

Electrical engines have a lot of more torque too. This is something that should be modeled somehow. Firespitter is the ideal module for this, as it models power, torque and props (and not just "thrust"). I understand the reasons by some people prefers stock engines, but they are utterly inadequate for piston and/or propeleres engines. 

I need to find some common ground on it.

Torque is already modeled to some degree in game. Look at existing electrical engine. More torque means quicker response to throttle input. Electrical engines are capable to spin up much quicker than piston engines. Meaning, full thrrust is established much quicker with electrical engines (almost instant) than it is possible with piston engines with comparable power.

That feature make electrical engines exelent choice for various PID controled autopilots. Almost instant response on throttle changes make it easier for autopilot to handle craft. Drawback with electrical aircrafts is still battery weight, you still can store much less energy per kg in battery than it can be used from fuel. But good feature from battery is that when you drain energy from it, they still weight the same (at least that can be measured). That means, craft COM would not shift as it was with ordinary crafts with fuel tanks.

I have nothing against firespitter, it will be easier to copy values from existing engine and adjust thrust/air preassure curve, adjust EC drain etc.
Heck, for testing purposes might be even feasible to use existing 3D mesh from one of piston engines and only change config files to be "electrical".
Don't know how much of other data unity pack within mesh model, is something else required or not, though.

Is it enough data to get starterd with it ?

[steve_v]

Hi @Lisias, I seem to have discovered a small fly in this lovely KAX ointment: 'KAX_kueyEngine.cfg' has no bulkheadProfiles. Unfortunately this causes borkage in the VAB part categories with >=1.6.0.
The only other holdout is @RoverDude and he doesn't appear to be listening, so I figured I'd come annoy you about it instead.

In case I have somehow neglected to say it before now: Thanks for reviving this mod, your work is greatly appreciated. Oh how I have missed KAX.

[Lisias]

9 hours ago, steve_v said:

Hi @Lisias, I seem to have discovered a small fly in this lovely KAX ointment: 'KAX_kueyEngine.cfg' has no bulkheadProfiles. 

Damn! I borked on that one, I thought I have it fixed.

As long as the power is restored on my block (yeah. Again! (Shadowzone voice on my head) I will issue a new build with this fixed.

 

9 hours ago, steve_v said:

Hi @Lisias, I seem to have discovered a small fly in this lovely KAX ointment: 'KAX_kueyEngine.cfg' has no bulkheadProfiles. Unfortunately this causes borkage in the VAB part categories with >=1.6.0.
The only other holdout is @RoverDude and he doesn't appear to be listening, so I figured I'd come annoy you about it instead.

RoverDude responds better to pull requests.

i will check firespitter too and make a PR myself if needed.[done!]

There's a hack using MM that adds a surface bulkhead to any parts that don't have any, this helps to coexist to this problem. But also masks them as it appears.

 

9 hours ago, steve_v said:

In case I have somehow neglected to say it before now: Thanks for reviving this mod, your work is greatly appreciated. Oh how I have missed KAX.

Thanks!

KAX and Firespitter were the very first AddOns I ever installed on my KSP.  I remember that times foundly.

Some love in on the ways for KAX. Finishings things on TweakScale, KAX is on the line for some caring!

Edited May 19, 2019 by Lisias
giving notice of the firespitter pull request

[Lisias]

KAX 2.8.0.1 is on the wild!

https://github.com/net-lisias-ksp/KAX

https://github.com/net-lisias-ksp/KAX/blob/master/CHANGE_LOG.md

https://github.com/net-lisias-ksp/KAX/blob/master/INSTALL.md

https://github.com/net-lisias-ksp/KAX/releases

Changes:

• Added missing bulkheadProfiles to a part.
  • Thanks, steve_v
• Added a Workaround Patch for handling parts with missing bulkheadProfiles to the Extras.

[Cheesecake]

So every time I start KSP 1.7.0 with KAX (only other mods are firespitter.dll and ModuleManager 4.0.2) it stopped at ModuleManager for KAXelectricpop. There are no entries in the Log.

[kcs123]

15 minutes ago, Cheesecake said:

So every time I start KSP 1.7.0 with KAX (only other mods are firespitter.dll and ModuleManager 4.0.2) it stopped at ModuleManager for KAXelectricpop. There are no entries in the Log.

Do you have also firespitter resources config file ? Currently using KAX along with bunch of other mods without issues, well at least not ones that comes from KAX.

[Stone Blue]

On 5/14/2019 at 11:20 AM, kcs123 said:

And, yes I agree there is a gap with electrical engines, there almost no mods to create some small electrical drones. Perhaps same model used for early pre WWI craft can be used for that, but instead of using fuel, to use electricity instead.

Angel-125's Heisenberg Airships has quite a few electric fan and prop engines:

 

[Lisias]

3 hours ago, Stone Blue said:

Angel-125's Heisenberg Airships has quite a few electric fan and prop engines

All of them tailored for big blimps, not small electrical airplanes and probes!

(believe me, I know)

Spoiler

 

 

6 hours ago, Cheesecake said:

So every time I start KSP 1.7.0 with KAX (only other mods are firespitter.dll and ModuleManager 4.0.2) it stopped at ModuleManager for KAXelectricpop. There are no entries in the Log.

On the INSTALL.md. you will find:

Quote

* Resources : Optional Resources file
        + Resources.cfg : To be used by the ones that by some unreachable reason don't want to install Firespitter. Needed by the
 Electric Engines.

It's needed if you don't have the FireSpitter's full package installed.

Humm… I'm foreseeing some problems to CKAN users...

[kcs123]

1 hour ago, Lisias said:

Humm… I'm foreseeing some problems to CKAN users...

Should not be issue. CKAN allows resource config file to be installed as standalone option. You can choose to install only Firespitter Core (plugin and dll only) and as separate install "Firespitter Resources config".

So, mod author can set both of those as dependency or just only one if mod does not require resource config file.

1 hour ago, Lisias said:

On the INSTALL.md. you will find:

Good for me that I read those, I have installed MM patch to discover more uf bulkhead missing part cuplprit. I think that have some from other mods, but haven't investigated my logs yet.

[CloudyMN1979]

I can't find any part images.  Is there an imgur album?