To be honest, I don't really like the redesigned Terrier and Poodle.*NOW with a poll!

[Neilski]

Haven't actually tried the new Terrier properly yet, though I do like the compactness of the compact variant.

The new Poodle is nice... but: I miss the asymmetry that the old one had. I used to use that when flying around - the gold pipe would remind me which way was up. I guess I need to find another way to achieve that now!

PS: learning-curve comment: when you get a contract to do something with a Poodle just after an update which changed the Poodle, and launch an existing design of ship... and then learn that the game considers it a different engine... that's just frustrating! (Same name in-game, but different part name when you look in the save file.)

Edited January 20, 2019 by Neilski
comment about updates and contracts

[Geonovast]

56 minutes ago, Neilski said:

the gold pipe would remind me which way was up

Oh good, I'm glad I wasn't the only one!

[KSK]

On 1/18/2019 at 3:31 PM, 5thHorseman said:

I do not share your opinion but I do truly sympathize in an almost visceral way. This is how I felt after the barn (and seemingly all ksc upgrades thereafter) was cut due to fan backlash, when I realized that I just lost something I would enjoy and never once stood up and said it when there was time.

From that moment on I decided that no matter how angry those I didn't agree with were at Squad, I'd voice my opinion so there was at least one person speaking for me before anybody makes any decision.

I sympathise with both this and @Rocket In My Pocket's point of view here.

Speaking for myself. I got quite excited when the Barn was previewed - I liked the idea behind it, which fitted well with my own headcanon of a bunch of plucky amateurs (to begin with at any rate) going into space for the sheer heck of it. Similarly, it strikes me that it shouldn't be beyond the wit of man to come up with a set of parts which make for reasonably plausible looking rockets whilst retaining their own identity and (importantly) that slighly daffy sense of fun that the older parts had.

It's not like functional rockets all have to look the same. Look at a real-world US rocket. Now look at a real-world Russian (for want of a better description) rocket. Both perfectly functional but you'd never confuse one for the other. For that matter, look at the Saturn V. Lots of surface detail, all of it having some function or other. There's no reason why a KSP fuel tank couldn't have all sorts of functional-looking greebling that, put together, make for a uniquely Kerbal looking rocket. Heck, going back to this thread, it could be something as simple as the number of bells on a particular engine. Tricouplers have been a thing pretty much since the beginning of KSP - why not have three bells on that re-worked Poodle? It would look a bit different and it harks back to early Kerbal design decisions.

Sadly (for me), KSP seems have become a plain S. It's definitely a Space game still, but the Kerbal and the Program parts of KSP (which are the bits that I personally cared most about), haven't seen much love for an awful long time. And I've long since given up hope that much is going to change on that front.

So it goes - after all, my views on it are just another voice amongst many, and I'm no longer inclined to carry on banging my drum for changes that show no sign of ever happening. But, by the same token, I got bored with KSP years ago and apart from the occasional spark of enthusiasm (which never translated into reinstalling the game), I can't honestly say that I've ever had a serious yearning to pick it up again. 

Edited January 20, 2019 by KSK

[RealKerbal3x]

3 hours ago, putnamto said:

Would  be  nice  if  we  had  stock  options, add  the  old  styles  of  everything  to  the  game  as  variants, then  we  can  all  be  happy

Thing is, that would almost double the amount of part textures in the game, which would mean that RAM use would skyrocket.

Also, having variants with completely different geometry to each other could cause issues.

You could try Old Parts Redux:

 

 

Edited January 20, 2019 by RealKerbal3x

[septemberWaves]

The redesigned Terrier engine is certainly an improvement. It looks a lot nicer in every way, and I particularly like the ability to change the engine mounts - this will help a lot with the aesthetics of many of my spacecraft.

As for the Poodle, I also like the redesign a lot. I am likely to use it for third stages of launch vehicles now, rather than using a 1.25m engine like I used to prefer.

[Neilski]

6 hours ago, RealKerbal3x said:

Thing is, that would almost double the amount of part textures in the game, which would mean that RAM use would skyrocket.

Umm, total noob here, but why would the RAM usage skyrocket unless you were actually using the parts in question? The software can't be that dumb, right?

While on the topic of RAM usage: (and still speaking as a total noob) the single most annoying thing about KSP for me, and it's getting damn close to a showstopper, is that the RAM usage already does skyrocket for no good reasons I can see. I have to restart it regularly because what I can only regard as memory leaks (accompanied by general (associated?) slowness) mean that the RAM usage goes from ~ 2GB to over 4GB after what is often well under an hour. I can't be the only one hitting this I'm sure. Given the maturity of the product I guess it's a won't-fix thing :-/ (If it weren't for the slowness which accompanies the RAM inflation I'd just try throwing more RAM at it.)

[DMagic]

8 minutes ago, Neilski said:

Umm, total noob here, but why would the RAM usage skyrocket unless you were actually using the parts in question? The software can't be that dumb, right?

Because KSP loads all of the parts and their textures at startup, you can see it in the loading menu: "Loading Textures.../Loading Models, etc... Though in most cases the old textures take up less space than the new ones, as there are generally variant textures, and sometimes bigger textures for the new parts.

It's the easiest way of handling the problem of how any part can be used at any time. If the models and textures weren't stored in memory, then every time a new vessel was loaded, or just came into loading range, the files would have to be loaded from disk again.

Imagine if you were trying to dock with a huge station and every time you first approached the station the game would freeze for 5 seconds while the files were loaded. There are obviously better ways of handling these things, but they would require more effort.

[Superfluous J]

7 hours ago, RealKerbal3x said:

Thing is, that would almost double the amount of part textures in the game, which would mean that RAM use would skyrocket.

There are ways to fix that. Or at least there was back before 64 bit was even an option.

https://web.archive.org/web/20150311164913/https://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/73236-WIP-Loading-textures-only-as-required

[Snark]

13 hours ago, putnamto said:

I  miss  the  gold  foil  on  the  old  terrier.

Would  be  nice  if  we  had  stock  options, add  the  old  styles  of  everything  to  the  game  as  variants, then  we  can  all  be  happy

Well, the old Terrier is still there, with its texture; it's just currently hidden by default, is all.  Would just take a fairly simple snippet of ModuleManager config to make the old look available as another variant (call it "Classic", maybe?) on the new Terrier, if that's what you want.

(Or, if you just hate everything about the new look and want to make it look just like the old one without any variants on it, you could do that, too.  MM is pretty flexible.)

Ditto the Poodle, for anyone who prefers the old one (or would like it available as a variant).

[peteletroll]

All textures are required in the VAB to show the part list, so I guess loading them at startup is a wise choice.

[Neilski]

Well, just... wow. I'm suitably amazed that that's how it works. Thanks for the info guys! (Didn't want to derail the thread...)

[SpaceBliss]

On 1/20/2019 at 9:03 AM, putnamto said:

Would  be  nice  if  we  had  stock  options, add  the  old  styles  of  everything  to  the  game  as  variants, then  we  can  all  be  happy

You could do that if you really wanted, you would have to download an older version of ksp and copy paste the old terrier model and change its name so that you can have both new and old models.

[steve_v]

On 1/22/2019 at 9:21 AM, peteletroll said:

All textures are required in the VAB to show the part list, so I guess loading them at startup is a wise choice.

LOD, mipmapping etc. have been things since the '90s. Pre-generated thumbnails are a thing everywhere.
There's no reason whatsoever that the full-resolution textures must be loaded to show the part thumbnail in the part list... But since KSP loads every texture into RAM at startup anyway, I guess you might as well use them.

 

On 1/21/2019 at 11:21 AM, DMagic said:

There are obviously better ways of handling these things, but they would require more effort.

This^.

That said, KSPs memory use (especially modded KSP) is getting out of hand. A <1GB game using nearly 4GB of RAM for the sake of textures on parts and planets that may well never be rendered is just silly.
 

On 1/21/2019 at 11:21 AM, DMagic said:

every time you first approached the station the game would freeze for 5 seconds while the files were loaded.

'Cause there's no way to predict a vessel coming into render range ahead of time, right? And of course the only way to load files from disk is by stalling the main thread in I/O at the last possible second...

[Tyko]

9 hours ago, steve_v said:

On 1/20/2019 at 2:21 PM, DMagic said:

every time you first approached the station the game would freeze for 5 seconds while the files were loaded. There are obviously better ways of handling these things, but they would require more effort.

'Cause there's no way to predict a vessel coming into render range ahead of time, right? And of course the only way to load files from disk is by stalling the main thread in I/O at the last possible second...

When you replied you cut off @DMagic's last sentence in which he actually said something similar...     

Edited January 23, 2019 by Tyko

[DMagic]

1 hour ago, Tyko said:

When you replied you cut off DMagic's last sentence

Well, not so much cut off as cut out and paste it before.

But, yes, the idea is that there are obviously ways of handling textures that don't involve loading every single one into memory and keeping them there. There was a mod that did that, but it had lots of limitations and didn't always work correctly. Adding something like that to the stock game would obviously have to be more stable.

[Bill Phil]

To be honest I never really liked the originals...

Wait, where those even the “originals”? Hard to say. They were quite old though, and they were quickly outdated.

[panzerknack]

I always liked the originals, but I'm usually biased towards unique and themed art styles at the potential cost of visual fidelity.

I think it's cool that in stock, the FAT wings look like atmospheric components vs the spacey Big-s;  and even without knowing more information, I could assume the spacey-looking ones have higher heat tolerance.

In my opinion good design should do both- have a unique style, and a reasonable person could infer some information from the appearance (COUGH LOOKING AT YOU MK2 DRAG).  The custom-color schemes are a nice addition though - I'd love more of this in stock!  

 

I've seen this same kind of debate come up in all different areas-people get quite polarized - when they removed colors from the android status bar 2 years ago in favor of a sleeker design, ofc not instantly seeing the battery indicator colors i hated it . 

 

To me, the junkyard aesthetic is central to KSP, captured not just in part appearance but in the flavor text on parts, the emotions (lol) of Jeb, etc.  I respect not everyone wants that, I just hope those that do like it represent a majority of the players 

[Lukun7Rocket]

Poodle looks realidtic, but bad, terrier also bad.

[klesh]

I like the terrier well enough, I’m quite enjoying the new poodle, but I’m really finding the most use out of the new spark. 

[egoego]

I actually found the old variants in the VAB. When you use the advance filters (e.g. for cross section diameter) the old variant will show up too. I was able to stick it to a rocket, but I did not yet test how it will look when I launch a rocket with such an old styled engine.