totm nov 2023 Thread to discuss negative things in a very general way, just see where it goes y'know?

[AstroWolfie]

18 hours ago, Kerbalsaurus said:

Do you mean for me or for my sister

are you distressed over this?

[adsii1970]

On 11/29/2023 at 5:12 PM, Kerbalsaurus said:

That’s a whole other damn thing! She doesn’t believe in mental health, and commonly shrugs off depression and other illnesses as “cringe disease”. It’s because of this behavior that she’s left running in an endless loop, constantly mad about everything and then refusing too change or fix anything.

That isn't good. Unfortunately, until she hits rock bottom and sees the need for help, there's not much those around her can do to help. But there's a little bit of hope. Let me explain:

I have PTSD, depression, and high-performing anxiety, and because they are all friends and needed a new playmate, they brought in OCD for giggles and grins. It took me to the point where nothing made sense; I was mad at myself, in the middle of another "life crisis" (I went from one of these to the other), and there was always agitation under the surface. Your sister sounds like she's close to this stage now. I am no expert in psychology, but I can tell you what I went through. Maybe this will help you understand what your sister may be thinking and feeling:

• The outward anger and hostility were because I felt I should better control things in my life, but I wasn't. Many things I thought were wrong in my life weren't apparent to anyone else but me. And I could not understand how they could feel things were fine when they were not. So, whenever someone would ask me why I was mad, I'd lash out rather than explain what I was going through. Why should I? In my mind, if they could not see it for themselves, what good would it do for me to explain it to them?
• The outward anger was also driven by seeing other people "happy, happy!" and wondering why I could not be like that. Some folks seem to have the ability to get hit in the face with a shovel (metaphorically speaking), laugh it off, get up, and go about their day, never even bothered by it. Then there was me; I was depressed, and the lack of enjoyment or the joy of a typical day just ate at my very soul. It made me even angrier and more depressed and fed the ill feelings I already had.
• The outward anger is also driven by being misunderstood by others. A lot of people around me had no idea what I was going through and would often say stuff that I took (because of my depression) wrong. Sure, some of it was dumb statements, such as, "Snap out of it" or "You've got so much going for you." But when you are buried in depression, your perception of those around you and perceptions about yourself -- you do not see it. All you see are those kinds of comments being critical of you. So, you resent the helpful comments and gestures, even those made in good faith.

One of the best things you can do is to let her know you're there, but don't push or back so far away you become unapproachable. Buy her favorite snack food, soda, or other trinkets/gifts as an "I care" gift. It will be met with distrust, skepticism, and questions (and probably anger). But keep doing it, make it unpredictable, and be polite. Eventually, she will let you in. It will not be an easy thing to do. Her self-isolation is a part of her pain from the depression. Her acting out towards the rest of the family resembles a hurt animal striking out against its rescuer.

For about four years, I volunteered for both the university's and community college's mental first aid team - and I am the faculty member that as soon as there's a report of a student thinking of suicide, I come to talk to the student. So far, there's been three occasions in the last two years to use my training, unfortunately. I'm good at it because I sank to that point in my life in 2004; I was lucky enough that a good friend kept reaching out and didn't back off, regardless of how nasty and mean I got.

I am no psychoanalyst, just a guy who has lived that life. Don't hesitate to involve a family therapist, even if she doesn't go. They will give you and your parents powerful tools to deal with the situation.

[Kerbalsaurus]

17 hours ago, AstroWolfie said:

are you distressed over this?

Not really, no.

7 hours ago, adsii1970 said:

That isn't good. Unfortunately, until she hits rock bottom and sees the need for help, there's not much those around her can do to help. But there's a little bit of hope. Let me explain:

I have PTSD, depression, and high-performing anxiety, and because they are all friends and needed a new playmate, they brought in OCD for giggles and grins. It took me to the point where nothing made sense; I was mad at myself, in the middle of another "life crisis" (I went from one of these to the other), and there was always agitation under the surface. Your sister sounds like she's close to this stage now. I am no expert in psychology, but I can tell you what I went through. Maybe this will help you understand what your sister may be thinking and feeling:

• The outward anger and hostility were because I felt I should better control things in my life, but I wasn't. Many things I thought were wrong in my life weren't apparent to anyone else but me. And I could not understand how they could feel things were fine when they were not. So, whenever someone would ask me why I was mad, I'd lash out rather than explain what I was going through. Why should I? In my mind, if they could not see it for themselves, what good would it do for me to explain it to them?
• The outward anger was also driven by seeing other people "happy, happy!" and wondering why I could not be like that. Some folks seem to have the ability to get hit in the face with a shovel (metaphorically speaking), laugh it off, get up, and go about their day, never even bothered by it. Then there was me; I was depressed, and the lack of enjoyment or the joy of a typical day just ate at my very soul. It made me even angrier and more depressed and fed the ill feelings I already had.
• The outward anger is also driven by being misunderstood by others. A lot of people around me had no idea what I was going through and would often say stuff that I took (because of my depression) wrong. Sure, some of it was dumb statements, such as, "Snap out of it" or "You've got so much going for you." But when you are buried in depression, your perception of those around you and perceptions about yourself -- you do not see it. All you see are those kinds of comments being critical of you. So, you resent the helpful comments and gestures, even those made in good faith.

One of the best things you can do is to let her know you're there, but don't push or back so far away you become unapproachable. Buy her favorite snack food, soda, or other trinkets/gifts as an "I care" gift. It will be met with distrust, skepticism, and questions (and probably anger). But keep doing it, make it unpredictable, and be polite. Eventually, she will let you in. It will not be an easy thing to do. Her self-isolation is a part of her pain from the depression. Her acting out towards the rest of the family resembles a hurt animal striking out against its rescuer.

For about four years, I volunteered for both the university's and community college's mental first aid team - and I am the faculty member that as soon as there's a report of a student thinking of suicide, I come to talk to the student. So far, there's been three occasions in the last two years to use my training, unfortunately. I'm good at it because I sank to that point in my life in 2004; I was lucky enough that a good friend kept reaching out and didn't back off, regardless of how nasty and mean I got.

I am no psychoanalyst, just a guy who has lived that life. Don't hesitate to involve a family therapist, even if she doesn't go. They will give you and your parents powerful tools to deal with the situation.

Thanks for the advice. And I’m sorry you had to live through that. Glad you got through though!

[adsii1970]

2 hours ago, Kerbalsaurus said:

Thanks for the advice. And I’m sorry you had to live through that. Glad you got through though!

As I said, I am no mental health professional. I just happened to live the experience. But it gave me a new set of tools in my toolbox to help others. I take it day by day now, and this is my life's song:

Not only am I a parrothead, but I am also from Louisiana. So, yeah...

[TheSaint]

I just broke my second-to-last old fashioned glass.   Guess I'm making a trip to the Walmart houseware department tomorrow...

[Lisias]

(ducking under the desk)

[Nuke]

On 12/1/2023 at 8:24 PM, TheSaint said:

I just broke my second-to-last old fashioned glass.   Guess I'm making a trip to the Walmart houseware department tomorrow...

prego jars are the best fine china there is. the things bounce. get a fancy glass from an expensive store and it will be shrapnel within the week. 

fancy dishes, thats another thing mom does to annoy me. im always worried about dropping her designer brittish bone china when im doing the dishes. she bought this silverware that is freakishly heavy. never should the two meet with any velocity. upon which i serve sloppy joes and chili dogs. she still hasn't  figured out that we po'.

Edited December 5, 2023 by Nuke

[TheSaint]

40 minutes ago, Nuke said:

get a fancy glass from an expensive store

On 12/1/2023 at 10:24 PM, TheSaint said:

Walmart houseware department

Never heard that called fancy before. LOL

I actually discovered that there was another old fashioned glass hiding in the dishwasher, so I still have two. I'm all good. <clink>

[Hotel26]

54 minutes ago, TheSaint said:

so I still have two

"picture or it didn't happen"

(sorry, that just slipped out!  but coz actually, I find that I am not cognizant with this construct: "old fashioned glass".  What is it?   A picture would assist.)

Edited December 5, 2023 by Hotel26

[TheSaint]

1 hour ago, Hotel26 said:

"picture or it didn't happen"

(sorry, that just slipped out!  but coz actually, I find that I am not cognizant with this construct: "old fashioned glass".  What is it?   A picture would assist.)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_fashioned_glass

[Nuke]

i had a set of those once, they lasted a month. 

[LHACK4142]

i just made one of the most stupid mistakes of my life, up there with writing calculator syntax on ap calc despite being explicitly told not to.

i procrastinated my final assignment till it was due in an hour (i had a first draft so i thought the changes would be small) but i couldnt finish it till 00:15 (it was due at midnight) and now it looks like i might get a c.

do you think the professor will have mercy?

 

holy **** i am such a numskull

[adsii1970]

51 minutes ago, LHACK4142 said:

do you think the professor will have mercy?

No. I do not. And I hope not. Because even you state:

51 minutes ago, LHACK4142 said:

holy **** i am such a numskull

and

51 minutes ago, LHACK4142 said:

i procrastinated my final assignment till it was due in an hour (i had a first draft so i thought the changes would be small) but i couldnt finish it till 00:15 (it was due at midnight) and now it looks like i might get a c.

Here's why I said" No" and "I hope not." I know it sounds mean, but here it goes:

I have taught at the university and community college level for twenty years. For some reason, the last two years have seen a rise in students who seem to have "time blindness" and a belief that either due dates do not matter or they alone should be exempt from rules that apply to everyone else. Time blindness, as it is now being called, is a belief that it is an actual disability that needs some adaptation or accommodation for a person incapable of managing their time. The claim is this is a disability, much like that of ADHD, depression, anxiety, or related mental disorders. Of course, there is no proof. It is certainly not listed in DSMV V as such. Still, it does not stop some people from using it as a mental disorder (falsely claimed because it uses buzzwords) and, this way, needing accommodation (extra time on an assignment simply because the due date has already passed). I only know this because I had to deal with this just a month ago.

The student I was dealing with demanded I give her two weeks for the assignment she "forgot about because of her time blindness disability." When I asked her for documentation of her "disability," I was accused of all kinds of things (the typical run of things nowadays - anything that sticks to the wall to cause me to give in out of fear of being reported to the administration) and then told that I wanted her to fail. I explained to her it was a matter of ethics - how could I let her have two extra weeks on an assignment she forgot about when her peers did not receive two additional weeks? She answered: "Because I have time blindness, you're not taking me seriously. I lose track of time." The due date for the assignment was in the course syllabus, on the online course calendar, and by the course automated reminders two weeks, then a week before the assignment was due. She had the same reminders as the rest of the class.

The student has the same issue in her other classes, too. She's already on academic probation from the Spring 2023 semester, and this semester, she did worse. She tried the same excuse with me, time blindness, with two other professors. One gave in to her demands only to have the student ask for another extension into finals week. The other professor took the same stand I did: no additional time. One of the things students are supposed to learn from both home and primary and secondary school is time management strategies. Both her parents and her earlier education have failed to achieve this goal.

Procrastination is a real problem, and I understand it gets the better of everyone who has it as a problem. It's happened to me, too. But part of the learning process is getting smacked with the results of procrastination. Often, when we get the fruits of procrastination - and usually, it is terrible fruit - we learn not to allow it to happen again. 

If the university/community college goal is to prepare a student for life and career, then one of the things we must do as professors must now include time management. I'm sorry. And when you realize - and admit - it was not your best work, that's admitting something that even your professor will know. Your professors are more than just grade ATMs; we also try to guide you to where your best efforts become second nature.

[AstroWolfie]

 my friend's nosy neighbor caused my friend to build a tall privacy fence on that side of their yard, and their neighbor just put a taller camera post up

[Lisias]

1 minute ago, AstroWolfie said:

 my friend's nosy neighbor caused my friend to build a tall privacy fence on that side of their yard, and their neighbor just put a taller camera post up

Hint: a powerful I/R LED flashlight grossly aimed into camera. Works day and night.

Just don't use a laser or something too powerful, or the camera's CCD will be damage and then your friend will be sued.

[adsii1970]

1 hour ago, AstroWolfie said:

my friend's nosy neighbor caused my friend to build a tall privacy fence on that side of their yard, and their neighbor just put a taller camera post up

Yeah, that sucks.

1 hour ago, Lisias said:

Hint: a powerful I/R LED flashlight grossly aimed into camera. Works day and night.

Just don't use a laser or something too powerful, or the camera's CCD will be damage and then your friend will be sued.

Hehe, yeah, that might work. Also, if your friend has any kids or feels so otherwise inclined, they could always get law enforcement involved. Your friend could claim the neighbor is a "peeping Tom" or spying on the family. Most places frown upon people spying on neighbor kids or women with cameras. It ramps up the "creepy guy" factor. That could be in your friend's advantage.

[SunlitZelkova]

4 hours ago, adsii1970 said:

No. I do not. And I hope not. Because even you state:

and

Here's why I said" No" and "I hope not." I know it sounds mean, but here it goes:

I have taught at the university and community college level for twenty years. For some reason, the last two years have seen a rise in students who seem to have "time blindness" and a belief that either due dates do not matter or they alone should be exempt from rules that apply to everyone else. Time blindness, as it is now being called, is a belief that it is an actual disability that needs some adaptation or accommodation for a person incapable of managing their time. The claim is this is a disability, much like that of ADHD, depression, anxiety, or related mental disorders. Of course, there is no proof. It is certainly not listed in DSMV V as such. Still, it does not stop some people from using it as a mental disorder (falsely claimed because it uses buzzwords) and, this way, needing accommodation (extra time on an assignment simply because the due date has already passed). I only know this because I had to deal with this just a month ago.

The student I was dealing with demanded I give her two weeks for the assignment she "forgot about because of her time blindness disability." When I asked her for documentation of her "disability," I was accused of all kinds of things (the typical run of things nowadays - anything that sticks to the wall to cause me to give in out of fear of being reported to the administration) and then told that I wanted her to fail. I explained to her it was a matter of ethics - how could I let her have two extra weeks on an assignment she forgot about when her peers did not receive two additional weeks? She answered: "Because I have time blindness, you're not taking me seriously. I lose track of time." The due date for the assignment was in the course syllabus, on the online course calendar, and by the course automated reminders two weeks, then a week before the assignment was due. She had the same reminders as the rest of the class.

The student has the same issue in her other classes, too. She's already on academic probation from the Spring 2023 semester, and this semester, she did worse. She tried the same excuse with me, time blindness, with two other professors. One gave in to her demands only to have the student ask for another extension into finals week. The other professor took the same stand I did: no additional time. One of the things students are supposed to learn from both home and primary and secondary school is time management strategies. Both her parents and her earlier education have failed to achieve this goal.

Procrastination is a real problem, and I understand it gets the better of everyone who has it as a problem. It's happened to me, too. But part of the learning process is getting smacked with the results of procrastination. Often, when we get the fruits of procrastination - and usually, it is terrible fruit - we learn not to allow it to happen again. 

If the university/community college goal is to prepare a student for life and career, then one of the things we must do as professors must now include time management. I'm sorry. And when you realize - and admit - it was not your best work, that's admitting something that even your professor will know. Your professors are more than just grade ATMs; we also try to guide you to where your best efforts become second nature.

I’m sorry to hear that.

Time blindness is real but it isn’t a stand-alone disorder, it is an aspect of ADHD or autism. The idea that it is its own disorder seems to have come from… TikTok.

I strongly recommend you and others consult with your legal department to see how this can be dealt with. You shouldn’t have to cave to someone’s demands just because they throw out the word “mental illness”.

Are people in higher positions aware of this? Has anyone researched as to the exact nature of time blindness? Because it seems like professors and other staff should not have to fear something being abused by a student. They can’t just make stuff up and have it become this weapon against their teachers.

[adsii1970]

2 hours ago, SunlitZelkova said:

Time blindness is real but it isn’t a stand-alone disorder, it is an aspect of ADHD or autism. The idea that it is its own disorder seems to have come from… TikTok.

Yep, we are aware of this. This is why we've been told not to cave to these folks claiming it as a stand-alone issue. And "time blindness," for those who have ADHD, severe depression with high functioning anxiety (as I do), and Autism/Asperger's, can and is often compensated for because to work within normal society, there are mechanisms that can be deployed that work. In my own experience, I have multiple alarms throughout the day to help keep me on-task, and I also have a color-coded Outlook-based calendar on my PC and phone to keep me "schedule-focused."

2 hours ago, SunlitZelkova said:

I strongly recommend you and others consult with your legal department to see how this can be dealt with. You shouldn’t have to cave to someone’s demands just because they throw out the word “mental illness”.

Oh, we have had numerous faculty development meetings on this. Here's the thing. Legally, we are not required to give any accommodations to a student unless they have a documented disability by a board-certified specialist and they have used the university's students with disabilities services coordinator, who will contact us and notify us of what accommodations the laws require. Any accommodations I give above are between the student and me. Still, it is not a legal requirement for me to provide anything above what the student's medical/mental health care provider documents.

2 hours ago, SunlitZelkova said:

Are people in higher positions aware of this? Has anyone researched as to the exact nature of time blindness? Because it seems like professors and other staff should not have to fear something being abused by a student. They can’t just make stuff up and have it become this weapon against their teachers.

It would amaze you what students try to claim are "disabilities." And the closer you get to the end of the semester and finals, the more strange things appear. Most students, about 95%, are not abusive towards the faculty. But there's the 5% who will hammer the crap out of us because they got away with it in high school because their teachers would not stand up to them.

[StrandedonEarth]

@adsii1970, this seems to have triggered a fault line and I sense a large amount of rantlava welling up. Fair warning...

Time blindness, huh? That's a new one, and it certainly seems to fit as yet another manifestation of the underlying, um, challenges. Presented for your amusement, my twenty-year-old stepson. Always difficult, always a battle to get him to do anything, including wearing any nice clothes for our wedding when he was almost 3. He is the classic example of those students who are just pushed along through school, earning a diploma that may as well have come out of a Cracker Jack box (guess who wrote the major essays?). It's been very much like pushing a boulder up a 45deg hill with the end of a baseball bat. He was once diagnosed with ADD (of course the meds weren't worth the side effects), and his mom and I figure he must be somewhere "on the spectrum**" but not enough for a diagnosis, not that he needed one. But he definitely suffers from time blindness. Some would say he's special, but I prefer Red's terminology...

Spoiler

He doesn't appear to go actively looking for trouble, but trouble has no problem finding him, luckily nothing serious. He's admitted he'll lie to us if he thinks he might get away with it, even as the evidence piles up.  He tried to go into trades prep and gave up. Managed to hold a job for almost a year, got fired for [dumbS]. Went back to school, on the premise that this was something he was choosing and would therefore actually try, then dropped out too late to get his tuition back while telling us he was still going. $10k down the tuition drain between those two ventures, but at least it's his money/loan, not ours. Admitted that he finds himself incapable of asking for help when he needs it (understandable, since that's ALWAYS). Now the job hunt is back on, and not going well so far. I can only guess at what impression he gives of how much he wants to work.

Oh hey, I think the rant is winding down now. Thanks for listening.

** It's my belief that we are ALL "on the spectrum." To carry the analogy forward, most of us burn in the visible spectrum, while some burn more towards the infrared or the ultraviolet...

[adsii1970]

18 minutes ago, StrandedonEarth said:

@adsii1970, this seems to have triggered a fault line and I sense a large amount of rantlava welling up. Fair warning...

It's a product of the times; you're fine.

18 minutes ago, StrandedonEarth said:

Oh hey, I think the rant is winding down now. Thanks for listening.

Not a problem. That's what's friends are for.

18 minutes ago, StrandedonEarth said:

** It's my belief that we are ALL "on the spectrum." To carry the analogy forward, most of us burn in the visible spectrum, while some burn more towards the infrared or the ultraviolet...

There's no such thing as normal. We are all abnormal in some way. I tell students at the beginning of each semester that they must become their biggest advocate. They cannot expect anyone else to do it for them. Many never get it.

 

[TheSaint]

2 minutes ago, adsii1970 said:

There's no such thing as normal. We are all abnormal in some way.

You all remind me of a conversation I had with my brother and sister-in-law, a couple of decades ago. My niece was nineteen at the time, and had a job at Disneyland. It was her dream job, she was a front stage cast member at DCA, rotating through a bunch of the kid-friendly rides, like Buzz Lightyear and the Hollywood limo ride (which is gone now). She was really good at it (if you knew her, you would know, she was born to do that sort of job), and had already been told that she was a natural and had a lot of prospects for advancement if she stayed on. There was just one problem: She was constantly late to work. She had been written up for it twice, and the only reason she hadn't been written up for it more than that was because she had a lot of friends on cast who covered for her. So her parents understood that this was a problem, and their solution was to: Provide discipline to help her get out of bed to get to work on time? No. Provide incentives to help her get out of bed to get to work on time? No. Did they actually attempt to modify her behavior at all? No. What they did was tell her to quit the job before she got fired. Their exact words in the conversation were, "We think that nineteen is too young to be working a full time job." I really wanted to point out to them that at nineteen I was running nuclear reactors for the United States Navy, but my wife put the, "Please don't generate unnecessary drama" hand on my knee.

[Superfluous J]

Regarding University getting you ready for "Real Life" and deadlines...

The last time a deadline actually meant anything in my life was when I was in school. In the "real world," deadlines blow past all the time. EVERY DAY in my job someone or other misses a deadline. You know what happens? Invariably? Every single time for literally decades?

Whomever set the deadline moves it a week or two down the road.

Usually, the bulk of people involved are happy about it because they weren't ready, themselves.

[StrandedonEarth]

34 minutes ago, TheSaint said:

So her parents understood that this was a problem, and their solution was to

Oh, we tried, we tried, bent over backwards, but we can only pound our heads against a brick wall for so long. You can lead a dumbS to knowledge but you can't make it think!

But yeah, crazy story, why tell her to quit a job she enjoyed and was good at? Ulterior motives?

[TheSaint]

2 minutes ago, Superfluous J said:

Regarding University getting you ready for "Real Life" and deadlines...

The last time a deadline actually meant anything in my life was when I was in school. In the "real world," deadlines blow past all the time. EVERY DAY in my job someone or other misses a deadline. You know what happens? Invariably? Every single time for literally decades?

Whomever set the deadline moves it a week or two down the road.

Usually, the bulk of people involved are happy about it because they weren't ready, themselves.

OMG, this is so true.

When I worked at the college I would constantly get projects with no deadlines. They went on the backburner. I would get calls from the helpdesk, calls from end users, calls about real problems that were preventing people from accomplishing their jobs right now. Those had deadlines of, "Now." They had a priority of 0. All of these other projects had deadlines of, "Whenever." They had a priority of 1. Work out the project management math.

Every once in a while, someone would get cranky and call my boss and get upset because their project wasn't getting any attention. And my answer was always the same: "Their project is prioritized according the the deadline it was given." I swear to God, I was the only person in that entire organization that took deadlines seriously. With the possible exception of Accounts Payable.

2 minutes ago, StrandedonEarth said:

But yeah, crazy story, why tell her to quit a job she enjoyed and was good at? Ulterior motives?

Nope. They honestly thought they were giving her good life advice. And, her life has progressed in exactly the direction you would expect that sort of advice would take it.

[SunlitZelkova]

This conversation has been very interesting to follow. It makes me wonder if there could be a future American (or North American) hikikomori epidemic.

Hikikomori are people in Japan ranging from millennials to gen Z kids who just can't handle the rigors of Japanese society, shut down, and live in their rooms at their parents' house indefinitely, having no job, simply doing their hobbies and sleeping. Less severe hikikomori, who don't have a job or attend school but don't stay shut in their rooms, are called NEETs (Not-in-Employment, Education, or Training).

Based on my own observations, I would say the cause of the epidemic in Japan might have been that the postwar freedoms and ideals in Japan did not match with the strict education and work ethic, which continued past the war (and was largely responsible for making Japan the economic superpower it is today). So eventually this disconnect within culture clashes in generations that had no memory of the strict pre-war way of being raised. Some can find a balance and continue life, but it should be noted hikikomori and NEETs are not only young people who don't get jobs, but also salarymen who work for a long time at a company and become burned out. So failure to do well in school isn't a prerequisite for becoming a hikikomori or NEET.

Will millennial and Gen Z parents be able to stand up to a college age kid with such behavior in the same way a parent in the 1970s or 1980s would have? Time will tell. On the other hand, I don't think adults becoming hikikomori is likely in the US, because this is only possible due to large numbers of men in Japan being unmarried and thus having no family responsibility (indicated by Japan's declining birth rates). This doesn't seem to exist in the US at the moment, although I did learn today that high schools kids are increasingly becoming more interested in their phones and computers than partying or even intimate romantic relationships, so... who knows?