Kerbal Joint Reinforcement - Next

[Rudolf Meier]

I found the problem and it's easy to fix... but I added also other things that are not yet ready. You can expect a new release in the next 2-3 days...

[qromodynmc]

17 hours ago, Rudolf Meier said:

I found the problem and it's easy to fix... but I added also other things that are not yet ready. You can expect a new release in the next 2-3 days...

Take your time brother, do it when you think it's ready.

[ssd21345]

btw ckan version is still at ____.13 rather than ___.14

[kcs123]

2 hours ago, ssd21345 said:

btw ckan version is still at ____.13 rather than ___.14

That is because latest available on github is marked as "pre-release". CKAN only pick up latest anounced "stable" release.

[Rudolf Meier]

There are new versions online (4.1.15/4.0.15)... I'm not sure if it already works with ckan

[Calvin_Maclure]

I'm struggling to determine which KJR I should use for my RP-1 game (the IR thread led me to this version of KJR). Should I be using KJR - Next or KJR Continued?

[Rudolf Meier]

12 hours ago, Calvin_Maclure said:

I'm struggling to determine which KJR I should use for my RP-1 game (the IR thread led me to this version of KJR). Should I be using KJR - Next or KJR Continued?

Use the Next, it will work without problems and offers some performance and stability advances over the Continued.

I know, that some say, that it's not working with RO, but I never got an error report for one of the new versions showing, that this is true. There was just one version with a problem, long long ago...

[Calvin_Maclure]

On 9/3/2019 at 9:34 AM, Rudolf Meier said:

Use the Next, it will work without problems and offers some performance and stability advances over the Continued.

I know, that some say, that it's not working with RO, but I never got an error report for one of the new versions showing, that this is true. There was just one version with a problem, long long ago...

Cool. Good to know! What version of KJR Next to use (just to be sure)? I'm assuming v.4.0.15? Also, what's the difference between ''KerbalJointReinforcement_dbg_v4.0.15.zip'' and ''KerbalJointReinforcement_v4.0.15.zip''?
 

Edited September 6, 2019 by Calvin_Maclure

[mikegarrison]

13 minutes ago, Calvin_Maclure said:

Cool. Good to know! What version of KJR Next to use (just to be sure)? I'm assuming v.4.0.15? Also, what's the difference between ''KerbalJointReinforcement_dbg_v4.0.15.zip'' and ''KerbalJointReinforcement_v4.0.15.zip''?
 

I would guess (only a guess) that the dbg version is a debugger compile, which will likely put a lot more info into the log file.

[Calvin_Maclure]

2 minutes ago, mikegarrison said:

I would guess (only a guess) that the dbg version is a debugger compile, which will likely put a lot more info into the log file.

This is what I'm thinking as well. 

[kcs123]

_dbg version also allows you to visualise struts kreated by KJRn and help you and developer to figure out what might cause issue.

[Rudolf Meier]

20 hours ago, Calvin_Maclure said:

Cool. Good to know! What version of KJR Next to use (just to be sure)? I'm assuming v.4.0.15? Also, what's the difference between ''KerbalJointReinforcement_dbg_v4.0.15.zip'' and ''KerbalJointReinforcement_v4.0.15.zip''?
 

For KSP 1.7.3 it's the 4.1.x version, for all others the 4.0.x versions. The reason is, that there's a lot of classes in KSP that changed over time. And one day we need to make a cut so that legacy code can be removed... of course, now that I know of KSP 1.8, it would have been better to wait for this version. ... so... at least for the moment it's like it is.

15 hours ago, kcs123 said:

_dbg version also allows you to visualise struts kreated by KJRn and help you and developer to figure out what might cause issue.

Right, and I want to point out, that the dbg version is also a bit slower. It does more in the background. I will improve this over time by adding additional and better "off" switches for example. But the main idea is to build some kind of visualization and (this is new now) a data recorder for each joint for a later analysis to improve KJR.

Edited September 7, 2019 by Rudolf Meier

[infinite_monkey]

Is there a quick way to check if the mod is working? My rockets seem pretty wobbly lately, but there are no obvious errors in the logfile. There are messages about 'KJRManager' from assembly 'KerbalJointReinforcementNext' being instantiated. Should I see something if "Visualize Autostruts" is enabled? I don't...

I'm on KSP 1.7.3, KJR Next version 4.1.15.

Edited October 25, 2019 by infinite_monkey

[kcs123]

11 hours ago, infinite_monkey said:

Is there a quick way to check if the mod is working? My rockets seem pretty wobbly lately, but there are no obvious errors in the logfile. There are messages about 'KJRManager' from assembly 'KerbalJointReinforcementNext' being instantiated. Should I see something if "Visualize Autostruts" is enabled? I don't...

I'm on KSP 1.7.3, KJR Next version 4.1.15.

KJRn should work just fine with KSP 1.7.3. With debug version and "visualize autostruts" you should be able to see something like it is shown on pictures from this post:

My best guess is that you have made some mistake trough install process. Maybe using older version of KJR or KJR cvontinued that was not properly uninstalled prior installing KJRn or some similar silly mistake.

[Hojoz]

2 questions:

 

1: Is this the official thread for KJR Next?

2: Does KJR Next work with KSP 1.8.1?

[Stone Blue]

5 hours ago, Hojoz said:

1: Is this the official thread for KJR Next?

YES... Not to be confused with the other various KJR threads.
Altho, there *is* a *development* thread also for KJR Next... but its clearly marked in the thread title.
Other than these two threads, ya, I wouldnt suggest asking/posting about KJR Next in any of the other threads

5 hours ago, Hojoz said:

2: Does KJR Next work with KSP 1.8.1?

At this point, its anyone's guess. Looking at the repo, it looks like there hasnt been any recent activity for a few months.
I would suggest giving it a try on a fresh, stock 1.8.1 install, and posting up your findings.

Reports of what may/may not work in 1.8.1 might help Rudolf Meier get it up to snuff for 1.8.x quicker if he continues dev on the mod. vOv

 

Edited November 2, 2019 by Stone Blue

[kcs123]

"development" thread is used for new ideas, reports for beta releases, testing new features, perhaps custom MM patches and similar. This thread should be for latest official release. It is being said multiple times in both of threads that KJR Next is marked to support any new version of KSP as it is not suspected to be anything new in KSP code that might break things. One of latest post about it:

That being said, noone knows for sure until you try it. I just guessing here that there might be issue with debug version of KJRn, due to UI changes in latest Unity version and KSP, but it is just speculation. I have yet to download latest KSP 1.8.1 and chase down proper mod versions and possible bugs in my list of favorite mods. So, can't tell yet from the first hand if something is broken or not in KSP 1.8.1.

[Pappystein]

Ok.  So I have had good and bad luck over the years with Kerbal Joint Reinforcement.   In no small part due to how KSP itself forces mod developers to break KSP's rules to do certain real life things.       If these parts are "grounded" with a LaunchClamp... KJR leaves them attached to the launch clamp when the Rocket takes off.   As if they were a part of the launch clamp and not the Rocket itself.

Here is my post in the BDB forum testing Launch clamps with KJRNext installed in a 1.8.1 install.

Is there anyway to eliminate the LaunchClamp+Decoupler issue?

The Parts involved (both the Atlas A-G Booster Skirt and the Atlas CELV proposal booster skirt) are decouplers with multiple bottom nodes.   The Launch clamps for Atlas are supposed to attach the the sides and hold the rocket.    Pictures are of the CELV rocket only.  

 

 

[kcs123]

15 hours ago, Pappystein said:

Is there anyway to eliminate the LaunchClamp+Decoupler issue?

@Rudolf Meier is one that should give offical answer, but he is busy lately, so I will try to help until then. Short answer - yes. It is possible to do something about it. Slightly longer explanationa follows, but I need few questions answered first.

1. Based only what I can see on pictures from linked thread, it seems that you are not using stock LaunchClamp and decouplers. Solution is based on assumption that answer is that you are not using stock parts.
2. Have you tried using stock launch clamps and if you did, does craft behave properly later on ? Meaning, does decoupling stages works properly after that ? I'm asking this because there was strange issue in the past with KJR and decoupling that was solved long time ago.

Now, a bit of history of KJR, to better understand what is going on. Original KJR made by ferram was using additional XML file to exclude specific parts/joints from KJR to reinforce them. Meaning, whenever any 3rd party mod got issue with KJR, new module or part have to be added in that XML file on list. Sometimes weeks were passed or even months between KJR updates before such 3rd party mod is supported by KJR. Meanwhile, each user of both mods was on it's own to edit that XML file for himself. Not everyone was have enough knowladge how to do that properly and on next KJR update, if problematic mod is not supported, you will need to do that again.

With KJRn it is no longer the case. But, some colaboration between mod authors is still necessary. Following is based on assumption that BDB mod use it's own plugin or dll for clamps, decouplers and docking ports. I didn't ever use BDB, so I can only speculate and made assumptions. If that is the case, then the best solution will be if @CobaltWolf, author of BDB provide support for KJRn.

You see, new feature of KJR Next is that it provide interface for other mods to "tell" KJR when to exclude problematic parts from reinforcement and when to allow KJR to include such part to reinforce craft again. Example of such scenario is IR mod and DockRotate mod.

There is also option if problematic parts does not use any other plugin, to exclude such part trough MM patches. So, instead of nagging KJR author to include problematic parts on exclude list, each mod author can write his own MM patch and deliver it to users along with other config files. If for ever reason mod author don't want to provide support, each user can write such MM patch by himself. Example of such patch is in spoiler section, just keep in mind to use proper part names, because I writting this from top of my head.

Spoiler

@PART[LaunchClampProperName]:NEEDS[KerbalJointReinforcement]
{
	MODULE
	{
		name = KJRExcluded
	}
}

 

You will need such MM for each problematic part. However, much better solution is if KJR joints are disabled/enabled as needed trough new KJRNext interface. Info for developers how to do that are described in WIP thread:

Under spoiler section of OP from WIP thread there is info how to do it for both, trough interface or trough MM patch. Again, best solution would be if @CobaltWolf can/will provide support for KJR trough his mod. @peteletroll might be able to help if there is any other questions, since he has already did that for DockRotate mod. But any further discussion is more apropriate for linked WIP KJRn thread as it is meaned for mod developers.

I hope that I was able to help with all parties involved.

[CobaltWolf]

@kcs123 Not quoting to save space, do you know if the FASA launch clamps had any special handling? That's all they are - just redistributed with BDB. I looked on the Github repo but couldn't seem to find any of the exceptions you mentioned.

[kcs123]

31 minutes ago, CobaltWolf said:

@kcs123 Not quoting to save space, do you know if the FASA launch clamps had any special handling? That's all they are - just redistributed with BDB. I looked on the Github repo but couldn't seem to find any of the exceptions you mentioned.

No, have no idea, I never used FASA launch clamps by myself. As I said, I can only speculate and create assumptions that something is different. I don't see any other reason why they would not work properly unless it is something different from stock launch clamps. Perhaps joints are named in different way than stock and for that reason KJRn may handle it in different way. But, that is again only guessing.

If that is not handled trough 3rd party plugin than there is always "dirty" way to exclude those parts with MM patches. Sorry, can't help you much more. I hope that I have at least pointed at right direction, for more than that you will have to wait for @Rudolf Meier to answer.

[Pappystein]

1 hour ago, kcs123 said:

1. Based only what I can see on pictures from linked thread, it seems that you are not using stock LaunchClamp and decouplers. Solution is based on assumption that answer is that you are not using stock parts.

 

Stock Launch clamps... had same result.

as CobaltWolf has already stated, it is the same FASA launch clamps that have been around since before (I think) KJR was even out of early testing.   I would have to log onto Ferram4's original thread and FASA's thread and check the dates to be certain... But they were both out NEAR the same time-frame at-least (... at-least according to my memory)

I Posted here because this has not been the behavior of KJR for several years.... Years ago KJR was not compatible with anyone's booster-skirts....  But I *thought* that Ferram4 had solved that issue (I was un-aware of the XML hack file..)   I did NOT have this issue before 1.8 or 1.8.1 (I had so many issues with the bugs in 1.8 that I didn't mention/post earlier because I thought it was just caused by 1.8's serious issues.    I will try apply a MM patch to both booster skirts to see if it solves the issue...   I will then submit a PR on Github for BDB if this does solve the issues.  Thanks for pointing us in a forward direction!

[kcs123]

10 minutes ago, Pappystein said:

Stock Launch clamps... had same result.

as CobaltWolf has already stated, it is the same FASA launch clamps that have been around since before (I think) KJR was even out of early testing.   I would have to log onto Ferram4's original thread and FASA's thread and check the dates to be certain... But they were both out NEAR the same time-frame at-least (... at-least according to my memory)

I Posted here because this has not been the behavior of KJR for several years.... Years ago KJR was not compatible with anyone's booster-skirts....  But I *thought* that Ferram4 had solved that issue (I was un-aware of the XML hack file..)   I did NOT have this issue before 1.8 or 1.8.1 (I had so many issues with the bugs in 1.8 that I didn't mention/post earlier because I thought it was just caused by 1.8's serious issues.    I will try apply a MM patch to both booster skirts to see if it solves the issue...   I will then submit a PR on Github for BDB if this does solve the issues.  Thanks for pointing us in a forward direction!

Now you have reminded me about something else, but similar. I don't think that ferram ever solved that issue, because RO mod authors are developed KJR continued, almost direct copy of ferram KJR but with updates for new KSP and some bugfixes without any major improvement. There is mention of launch clamps in KJR continued change log, quoted same thing for different reasons:

I never used RO for myself and never encountered that issue, even with ferram's original KJR. Again, I can only guess that same issue is solved in KJRn long time ago because Rudolf said it was solved and users that use RO and KJRn at the same were not reported any issues. Of course, there is always chance that something is broken with KSP 1.8.x release.

There is also chance that if you have tried different versions of KJR that some file is left behind from previous install. It will be good if you can reinstall KJRn. Meaning, to ensure that you have deleted "KerbalJointReinforcement" from "GameData" folder before you do fresh install of KJR Next.

[Pappystein]

1 minute ago, kcs123 said:

There is also chance that if you have tried different versions of KJR that some file is left behind from previous install. It will be good if you can reinstall KJRn. Meaning, to ensure that you have deleted "KerbalJointReinforcement" from "GameData" folder before you do fresh install of KJR Next.

That was actually the first step I tried.   I deleted KJR-Next, Downloaded from the Github the latest release,  And manually installed it...   No change.

Like I said I think this is some interaction change between KJR and 1.8/1.8.1 of KSP.

 

 

 

[Autolyzed Yeast Extract]

Can confirm launch clamps are basically unusable in 1.8 with either KJR next or KJR continued. The rocket is scrunched up on load and when launched it will fly in a random direction due to the forces. Other mods don't interfere with the launch clamps.

Edited November 16, 2019 by Autolyzed Yeast Extract