Rational Resources 3.0.2 [Sep 24, 2024]

[JadeOfMaar]

@garwel Yeah there are plans. I've informed @HebaruSan accordingly and finally just posted to SpaceDock.

Release 0.9.1

DOWNLOAD :: GitHub :: SpaceDock

• Added support (resources and planetary classification experiment) for the Outer Planets Mod. (Hi @Tabris )
• Added Extras folder with optional configs.
  • Moved stock Ore converters remover here.
  • Added RationalResourcesSquad. This extra applies B9PS and all fuel options to all stock tanks. This also adds non-redundant tank types to CryoTanks if that is installed. (Does not affect CryoTanks if installed alongside WBI Classic Stock.)
  • Added patch for Nertea's SSPXr.
  • Added LqdHe3 tank type which only appears for Galaxies Unbound (a planet pack).

Edited August 8, 2019 by JadeOfMaar

[Tabris]

@JadeOfMaar,

Thank you,

i was going to do them (or at least attempt to)

[Autolyzed Yeast Extract]

Is community resource pack required? I didn't notice any dependency on the op and it wasn't bundled.

[JadeOfMaar]

1 minute ago, Autolyzed Yeast Extract said:

Is community resource pack required? I didn't notice any dependency on the op and it wasn't bundled.

Well it says so in the first sentence in the OP, and CRP resources are clearly shown in the banner image.

On 5/30/2019 at 12:04 PM, JadeOfMaar said:

Rational Resources is designed to operate on the Community Resource Pack or the WBI Classic Stock resources and to strip out the entirely random resource distributions and to apply distribution templates (carefully configured groups of resource distributions) according to the logically expected class and composition of a body.

If no resource system is installed then there are no resources to get rational with. It is also assumed that you have one of them installed and you're looking to make your existing ISRU gameplay more interesting and challenging.

These are not not bundled because this mod is designed to do nothing (and hence not cause log issues) if they are not present, and leave it to the player to choose their resource system.

[Autolyzed Yeast Extract]

You could at least link to them... make a "Dependencies" section and link to the mods that the mod requires... like every other mod on the forums...

Well, apparently every mod that depends on community resource pack makes no mention of it being a dependency. Downloading it fixed several issues I have been having with multiple mods, yet none of them so much as hinted at it. But just because everyone else does it doesn't make it fair.

 

Edited August 8, 2019 by Autolyzed Yeast Extract

[JadeOfMaar]

46 minutes ago, Autolyzed Yeast Extract said:

You could at least link to them... make a "Dependencies" section and link to the mods that the mod requires... like every other mod on the forums...

When you're an experienced player and you realize the span of the numbers of mods which make use of resources that aren't stock, you'll see that there's little need to explicitly mention the dependency on CRP. It's like an unspoken truth. Nobody has to tell it but everyone should instantly know it... But in the case of the novice and otherwise unsuspecting players I can understand. (I've had several encounters like this concerning some jet engines in another mod I own.) So I've done so in my thread OP. Thanks for mentioning it.

[dlrk]

This is awesome!

Somewhat confused though: Is this compatible with MKS?

Edited August 8, 2019 by dlrk

[Bombaatu]

So, question - I know this mod limits what resources are actually present on a body. Does it also limit the list of resources you see when you are in the map view and getting a visual of the resource concentration? IE can you only cycle through the available resources for that body or do you still see all of the installed resources in the list?

Edited August 9, 2019 by Bombaatu

[JadeOfMaar]

On 8/8/2019 at 7:40 PM, dlrk said:

This is awesome!

Somewhat confused though: Is this compatible with MKS?

Yes, it is, except for the Dirt resource which is completely removed. It's replaced wit the Rock resource which is effectively the same but is used by mods other than MKS and is being given more use cases than Dirt. This reminds me, I meant to put a Rock exosphere around any ringed planets, to give the impression and gameplay mechanic that you can harvest planetary rings directly.

• Rock is a propellant of mass driver engines which are effectively ion drives but super-powered and throw Rock instead of XenonGas. In 2.7x scale (assuming you're using JNSQ too), you're going to need better things than the NERV or other stockalike NTRs if you're looking to get a manned expedition out far and fast. Used by: Stockalike Mining Expansion, USI Asteroid Recycling Technologies.
• Rock (like Dirt) is equally used in Classic Stock for sifting out a small fraction of Ore and maybe other useful things. Since it exists in these two resource systems this mod replaces Dirt with it.

2 hours ago, Bombaatu said:

So, question - I know this mod limits what resources are actually present on a body. Does it also limit the list of resources you see when you are in the map view and getting a visual of the resource concentration? IE can you only cycle through the available resources for that body or do you still see all of the installed resources in the list?

Concerning the stock resource overlay mechanism the former is more likely. I don't remember as it has been a long time. I tend to always have SCANsat installed, which is superior to the stock function and (the latter applies) always shows all resources.

[dlrk]

B9PartSwitcher is giving me a warning about duplicate subtype names. It looks like the SSPxr patch is causing this.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/n6oc0vpnft631ir/KSP.log?dl=0

[JadeOfMaar]

@dlrk Ah. Well that patch assumes you're not using whatever mod is related to the conflicting tank types. In this case it's clearly MKS.

[ERR 14:57:30.306] [ERROR] [Part sspx-cargo-container-radial-medium-1] [ModuleB9PartSwitch 'cargoSwitch'] Duplicate subtype names detected: Hydrates, Rock, Water

Simply delete the subtypes with these names from RR's config file.

[Mekan1k]

Is LiquidHydrogen (LH2) the same as Buzzard-collected Hydrogen? What is Karbondum? I want to use this mod and Near Future's mod to make some buzzard hydrogen-fueled probes, but I don't know if the collector will give me LH2 for my engine.

[The-Doctor]

Anyone have had experience using this to collect ore from asteroids? What's your experience 

"Players may find themselves forced towards using Hydrolox rocketry since the required resources (Ore or Carbon Dioxide) for LiquidFuel may often be scarce meanwhile the requirements for Hydrolox (Hydrates, Hydrogen, Oxygen, Water) can be quite abundant." 

 

Does this mean carbon dioxide is required to make liquid fuel? Or is it the same

[The-Doctor]

I'm beyond interested, how does liquid ammonia work with kerbalism? And the co2 rocket part got me very interested since I read up on it for Mars missions. How to turn liquid co2 to co2 for kerbalism?

[JadeOfMaar]

@The-Doctor RR doesn't touch the Ore abundance in asteroids. I forgot to mess with that and I don't want to now. I don't play with asteroids anyway and I don't think this mod's main demographic (replica and historical rocketry players) does either.

CO2 is actually very abundant in gas form (the primary component of inner rocky world atmospheres) and in all of Duna's surface but may be found in liquid form in exotic planets' oceans (that's up to the planet mod maker, not me).

Kerbalism support is exactly why Ammonia is featured and provided. Ammonia is valuable in real-world applications for agriculture (and has a place in early rocketry) and is also valuable because it's a Nitrogen + Hydrogen compound. Each of these are very important elsewhere in Kerbalism.

The emphasis on Mars mission gameplay is why CO2 is made into a big deal. RR provides options for using CO2 to make: LFO; Liquid Methane for Methalox engines; Oxygen for breathing. At some point I may provide the options for nuclear propulsion using CO2, Methane and maybe Water. I came close to making a JNSQ Duna Ascent Vehicle that could run on just CO2. Tank balancing was off, which held it back.

No ISRU options are provided for turning liquid resources back to their gas form. I wanted to avoid adding another ISRU part and needing to borrow more models. I want to leave that to the other mod to provide. The Kerbalism dev told me he would wait until I finalized my ISRU chains so then he could write his own versions for Kerbalism's ISRU scheme.

[The-Doctor]

Well thankfully I'm not into asteroids lol, also I'm a bit unsure if kerbalism yet supports this mod. 

[JadeOfMaar]

@The-Doctor Kerbalism may not support directly, but this mod directly supports Kerbalism by providing these much-needed resources and options in the stock parts for storing, mining and processing them.

[The-Doctor]

If I delete the rational resources parts, will that affect me in some way or are they needed?

[JadeOfMaar]

7 minutes ago, The-Doctor said:

If I delete the rational resources parts, will that affect me in some way or are they needed?

The parts are there to give you something to do with the resources and to show the major ISRU chains concerning the hydrolox and methalox rocketry mods.

• Converter boxes: Can't refuel your hydrolox or methalox (or liquid CO2 nuclear) rocket or split Hydrates to get ArgonGas and Water without them.
• Scanners: Can't spot the resources in the oceans, skies or in space around a planet or moon without them.
• Exoscoop: Can't harvest the resources in space around the celestial without it.
• Bread Tank clones: Not terribly important but they show you what processed resources (not all are fuels) to expect from RR.

[The-Doctor]

How do I get co2 tanks? I'm seeing carbonated nuclear engines and everything else is there but not for the fuel tanks. I also installed b9 part switch and nothings changed. Is this a feature? Do I need something else to can have carbon engines? @JadeOfMaar do I need another mod like interstellar fuel switch to can make use of liquid carbon dioxide engines etc? 

Edited September 2, 2019 by The-Doctor

[JadeOfMaar]

2 hours ago, The-Doctor said:

How do I get co2 tanks? I'm seeing carbonated nuclear engines and everything else is there but not for the fuel tanks. I also installed b9 part switch and nothings changed. Is this a feature? Do I need something else to can have carbon engines? @JadeOfMaar do I need another mod like interstellar fuel switch to can make use of liquid carbon dioxide engines etc? 

You don't need another fuel switch mod (though KSP Interstellar supplies an engine or two that lets you use literally anything as a propellant). There are a few Extras configs included in the download now. One of these ( TankswitchForSquad.cfg ) will apply B9 fuel switching to all stock tanks and avail all these options to you (see screenshot). You should not be seeing a carbon NTR option as I had removed it due to its conflict with Kerbal Atomics. That option will return soon™ as a clone of the NERVA. Your installed version of RR should be 0.9.x.

[The-Doctor]

@JadeOfMaar well I still experience the carbonated ntr's for some reason, and the b9 part switch isn't working for me, maybe cause I installed it via ckan idk

 

EDIT it works, I'm now seeing the rr tanks

Edited September 2, 2019 by The-Doctor

[JadeOfMaar]

Version 0.9.2 is nearly here. It pains me (with regards to @OhioBob and @Snark) to mention that more parts are on their way in. This time: nuclear engines. Their purpose is to open up even more use cases for the propellants emphasized by Rational Resources, and to make deoxygenated atmospheres even more approachable. After this I'm highly anticipating making only a 0.9.3 release then finally, the 1.0 at which point the borrowed models and and temporary parts will be phased out and parts will be moved to Extras in anticipation of (other) mod makers who don't want bunches of parts appearing with "just a resource mod."

The GitHub wiki for this is now well populated and should be sufficient for planet modders to see how the templates work and how to make these work for them, and part modders and casual players to see how the engines and ISRU chains work.

The RR J-406 "Main Coon" NTJ is a clone of the J-404 "Panther," including and requiring a small nuclear reactor in order to operate (good for 15 EC/s). Its cruising speeds are Mach 2.5 ~ 2.8, and is by design "experimental" and powerful but prone to overheat. It consumes IntakeAtm + ThermalPower (produced by its reactor) rather than IntakeAir + LF. so it's very good for use on Eve and surely Duna.

The RR LV-N-O and RR LV-N-R are clones of the stock NERVA. These use B9 module switching, rather than the stock multimode engine module to properly carry more than 2 engine modes and additionally be able to show helpful info while choosing between them in the VAB. The "O" edition is high thrust, low Isp and burns CO2 and Water. The "R" edition burns LH2 (same effect as the Kerbal Atomics mod) but also Ammonia and Methane.

Image is somewhat obsolete. The Water mode has 130 kN thrust.

[OhioBob]

11 hours ago, JadeOfMaar said:

The "O" edition is high thrust, low Isp and burns CO2 and Water. The "R" edition burns LH2 (same effect as the Kerbal Atomics mod) but also Ammonia and Methane.

What ISP are you using for those?  I did a bunch of calculations of NTRs several years ago with different fuels, including ammonia and methane.  I can probably look up those numbers if it would help.

[JadeOfMaar]

@OhioBob I've given that data on the Propulsion page. I'm open to any changes you have, and any interesting propellant options you want to add entirely.

Edited September 6, 2019 by JadeOfMaar