Extra tech tree difficulty option

[theJesuit]

Boss fight 

1 hour ago, Noud said:

Boss fights

Return 2 kerbals from Eve.  Which could be 1 at a time I guess.

3 hours ago, theJesuit said:

would like to see an 'achievement tree'.  Which would display empty spaces for all bodies in the game (for additional planet packs).  So that you unlock them from orbit, probe landing, and flag planting.  Then, completeing the tech tree becomes part of the process in achieving the goal of flag and footsteps on every planet.

Interested @linuxgurugamer? 

actually I wonder if I can do this in the tech tree...  could be a combination  of a tech tree and contract configurator.

[linuxgurugamer]

3 minutes ago, theJesuit said:

 

Boss fight 

1 hour ago, Noud said:

4 hours ago, theJesuit said:

would like to see an 'achievement tree'.  Which would display empty spaces for all bodies in the game (for additional planet packs).  So that you unlock them from orbit, probe landing, and flag planting.  Then, completeing the tech tree becomes part of the process in achieving the goal of flag and footsteps on every planet.

Interested @linuxgurugamer? 

actually I wonder if I can do this in the tech tree...  could be a combination  of a tech tree and contract configurator

 

I saw this earlier.  Possible, I’ll need to think on it.  Have some other stuff I’m working on right now

[linuxgurugamer]

Been thinking about this.

Do you think you could make up graphics for the achievements?  It’s not too difficult a job to do, but my graphics skills are minimal

[XLjedi]

Just now, linuxgurugamer said:

Been thinking about this.

Do you think you could make up graphics for the achievements?  It’s not too difficult a job to do, but my graphics skills are minimal

If you just need some icons, I would volunteer on the graphics...  I'm fairly competent in that area.  (if no others step up)

I would just need to know, what accomplishments you want and the size and format you need them in.  

[theJesuit]

At the most simplest ...

List of bodies... pulled from where ever bodies are located I a table then with three icons for each name:

Orbit

Landing

Flag

These could be done by altogether by one crewd mission or proessively with a crewed mission to plant flag.

Stock icons might suffice as placeholders for now.  Grey out and then green to complete.

[mikegarrison]

Strategia kind of functions like that.

You can pick a body and make visiting that your goal. Until you achieve the goal, all rewards for that body are doubled; all rewards for other bodies are halved.

[linuxgurugamer]

2 hours ago, XLjedi said:

If you just need some icons, I would volunteer on the graphics...  I'm fairly competent in that area.  (if no others step up)

I would just need to know, what accomplishments you want and the size and format you need them in.  

Thanks, that's appreciated.

I haven't thought that far ahead, but the little thought I have would be to present it in some sort of list format, in columns.  In terms of accomplishments, what @theJesuit listed plus a few:

Body name     Enter_SOI     Orbit    SubOrbital (?)     Atmosphere    Impact     Landing     Flag     Crew_Report

Obviously the Atmosphere would only be relevant for planets with an atmosphere, Landing only for planets which can be landed upon.   Keeping track of this would be fairly easy.  I can pull code from another mod to get and display an icon of the planet.  So 9 icons, minimum size would be 38x38 (for reference, 38x38 is the stock toolbar button size), but if you did larger than that, I could scale it as needed.  If you do make it larger, then I would suggest 128x128.  My feeling is that I may end up going with 64x64, but will have to see how it all comes out

[linuxgurugamer]

Oh, and I would need a 38x38 image for the toolbar

[theJesuit]

22 minutes ago, linuxgurugamer said:

Thanks, that's appreciated.

I haven't thought that far ahead, but the little thought I have would be to present it in some sort of list format, in columns.  In terms of accomplishments, what @theJesuit listed plus a few:

Body name     Enter_SOI     Orbit    SubOrbital (?)     Atmosphere    Impact     Landing     Flag     Crew_Report

Obviously the Atmosphere would only be relevant for planets with an atmosphere, Landing only for planets which can be landed upon.   Keeping track of this would be fairly easy.  I can pull code from another mod to get and display an icon of the planet.  So 9 icons, minimum size would be 38x38 (for reference, 38x38 is the stock toolbar button size), but if you did larger than that, I could scale it as needed.  If you do make it larger, then I would suggest 128x128.  My feeling is that I may end up going with 64x64, but will have to see how it all comes out

I think it should be a mainly visual.  There are mods that already list (Kaptains Log?) All the achievement's but it doesnt display as a visual checklist.  Also maybe the pinnacle and limited progressive nature of these.

So instead of orbit then maybe flyby but orbit is more of an achievement by itself but not SOI as it is obvious with flyby or orbit.  But then landing as and you need to be suborbital to land so there is no point to both being achievements.

If you take the science out as well the flag plant is there to say I've been.  The science is irrelevant methinks.

Could this be it's own KSC scene like a museum building or an overlay in the RandD or astronaut complex?

[theJesuit]

@linuxgurugamer maybe add a date accomplished.  Then people can gloat how how quick they achieved what.

Also, a name of the save game and game type so that a screenshot can not only show progression of what.

[theJesuit]

I have an idea in my head to show what I mean.  If I get a chance I'll whip it up in sometime tonight.

Peace.

[XLjedi]

1 hour ago, linuxgurugamer said:

Oh, and I would need a 38x38 image for the toolbar

I'll do like a master at 128x128 and then we can resize for the smaller ones.  I can also share the GIMP file if folks want to recolor it.

[linuxgurugamer]

1 hour ago, theJesuit said:

@linuxgurugamer maybe add a date accomplished.  Then people can gloat how how quick they achieved what.

Also, a name of the save game and game type so that a screenshot can not only show progression of what.

I was merely listing what the accomplishments would be.  I intend to have the icons clickable to view the specifics, which would include:

• Kerbal date
• Real date/time
• Vessel name
• All kerbals on mission
• Possibly a screenshot

Really, the specific information is trivial.

28 minutes ago, XLjedi said:

I'll do like a master at 128x128 and then we can resize for the smaller ones.  I can also share the GIMP file if folks want to recolor it.

That sounds great.  This way I might even be able to make it resizable, similar to what I did for the Blizzy Toolbar

[theJesuit]

Sounds good on the hiding of trival details.

I is not coder.  No idea what is possible or straight forward to do. 

Thank you for doing this!

Peace.

[Superfluous J]

19 hours ago, The Aziz said:

if someone's gonna spend  90% of their career playthrough without visiting the r&d because the tree was finished within the first week, it's like cutting 1/3 of the mechanics.

But if someone spends 90% of the career with some nodes locked, they basically never use some parts.

Source: I tend to restart when the tree's fully unlocked and almost never use any top-tier parts.

[theJesuit]

19 minutes ago, 5thHorseman said:

But if someone spends 90% of the career with some nodes locked, they basically never use some parts.

Source: I tend to restart when the tree's fully unlocked and almost never use any top-tier parts.

Agreed.  I do something similar.  Hopefully what @linuxgurugameris working on will inspire using top tier nodes and parts to do moar!  

[Superfluous J]

I actually didn't read up until just now. This sounds like a mod I used to use before there were contracts in the game. Let me search a bit...

Here it is. KSP achievements. Looks like it was maintained up til 1.4

Might help in avoiding reinventing any wheels.

[linuxgurugamer]

6 minutes ago, 5thHorseman said:

I actually didn't read up until just now. This sounds like a mod I used to use before there were contracts in the game. Let me search a bit...

Here it is. KSP achievements. Looks like it was maintained up til 1.4

Might help in avoiding reinventing any wheels.

I'll look, will consider it for adoption

 

Edit:  I've PM'd @malkuth about the mod, I'm willing to adopt it and continue it forward.  I see no reason to reinvent the wheel

Edited February 9, 2020 by linuxgurugamer

[linuxgurugamer]

1 hour ago, 5thHorseman said:

I actually didn't read up until just now. This sounds like a mod I used to use before there were contracts in the game. Let me search a bit...

Here it is. KSP achievements. Looks like it was maintained up til 1.

Might help in avoiding reinventing any wheels.

Its a good mod, but doesnt go far enough.

3 hours ago, linuxgurugamer said:

I was merely listing what the accomplishments would be.  I intend to have the icons clickable to view the specifics, which would include:

• Kerbal date
• Real date/time
• Vessel name
• All kerbals on mission
• Possibly a screenshot

Really, the specific information is trivial.

That sounds great.  This way I might even be able to make it resizable, similar to what I did for the Blizzy Toolbar

This needs to be added to it.

3 hours ago, XLjedi said:

I'll do like a master at 128x128 and then we can resize for the smaller ones.  I can also share the GIMP file if folks want to recolor it.

Please go ahead with this, I am going to need them regardless of whether i use the Achievements mod or not

[flart]

Also there is Space Age with two achievement tabs (screenshots on the topic is outdated)

And about the OP,  I could imagine, that if this "lock" plugin for a tech tree would be available, than tech-tree modders will have even more tools to their work for making interesting and balanced tech-tree, what force player to go outside Kerbin system earlier.

Firstly, do not forget, that we already have tech tree divided on 3 parts, bases on Facility level (aka 2 global locks). So it is probably in the area of @sarbian 's Custom Barn Kit, to make an option for the tech tree facility upgrade depends on visiting some other planets or some set of achievements. (example: first upgrade: fly-by any other planet, second upgrade: manned return home from any other planet)

And secondly, I think the main problem with the stock tech tree is not lack of tools, but that it isn't balanced (people are saying, I am not remember already), and the main problem with modders tech tree, that people often have some similar but different ideas, and everyone make their own tech tree, which support many but not every mod. And having even three unsupported less popular part mods could ruins balanced tech tree.

My dream is that at some point all modders that made all UnkerballedUnmannedProbeAndAirplanes_BeforeCrew_AndDividedIntoBranches_TechTree will get together, make a Team, and create The New Community Tech Tree, with almost all mod supported. 

 

 

Edited February 9, 2020 by flart

[linuxgurugamer]

3 hours ago, flart said:

My dream is that at some point all modders that made all UnkerballedUnmannedProbeAndAirplanes_BeforeCrew_AndDividedIntoBranches_TechTree will get together, make a Team, and create The New Community Tech Tree, with almost all mod supported. 

My dream is to have a self-modifying/balancing tech tree, based on what's available in the game.  It's a pet project of mine which I've been doodling with for a few years, so don't expect anything soon.

 

[Zeiss Ikon]

On 2/8/2020 at 11:06 AM, XLjedi said:

it mentions parts are placed in inventory and appear in editor, it doesn't seem to mention how the parts got there in the first place?  Do you have to initially buy each part that you place in inventory?  If so, I may be interested in Scrapyard!  ...although not really what I was looking for initially.  Oh Scrap, for now, I think I can do without.

I've recently installed Scrapyard and Oh Scrap! in my RO save (1.6.1).  Those two mods are meant to work togther.  The general idea for Scrapyard is that if you "Recover Vessel" (or Stage Recovery does it for you -- which may involve putting parachutes on your dropped stages and ensuring they're armed at the staging event), all the parts from that vessel go into the Scrapyard inventory -- so, yes, you have to buy the parts at least for the first use.  Then, when you take that same part from the parts bin in SPH or VAB, there's an option to installed a "flight proven" part (to use the SpaceX wording), which, because it was already in your inventory, has low/no cost. 

Oh Scrap! then keeps track of usage history for reused parts, and adjusts their failure probability.  Unlike Flight Test, however, Oh Scrap! manages part failures, not just for rocket engines, but for everything.  You can have antenna failures, parachute failures, flight surface (i.e. aileron or rudder) failures, landing gear failures....on new parts as well as on reused ones.  The mod will also display on highlight (at least when the vessel is out of the editor) whether a particular part is new, or how many times it's been flown, and can optionally display the least reliable part on a vessel in its current state (i.e. this might change if that was a new WAC Corporal engine on the first flight, but after recovery/reuse, it might be a used parachute) as well as a "safety rating" (since I'm still in the sounding rocket years in my newly started RO career with these mods, I generally get 0, 1, or occasionally 2 ratings -- not sure how high they go, but those aren't very good).

My limited experience so far suggests the failure probability, at least for Realism Overhaul historical parts (specifically first-generation sounding rocket engines) seems awfully high compared to Flight Test (which uses data based on actual engine flight and test burn data from back in the day, if I've read correctly) -- if every second WAC Corporal engine had failed, either to ignite or with loss of thrust or early shutdown, Project Bumper would never have existed. I need to dig around and see if there's a setting to "dial back" the failure rate (or maybe I need to remove Flight Test to let Oh Scrap! work correctly).

To the OP -- if you're mainly concerned about being able to fill out the entire tech tree with a couple biome-hopper missions to Minmus, try installing RP-1 and the parts packs that go with it.  Start with a WAC Corporal and even on Kerbin I guarantee you'll be quite some time getting to the point of even getting to Minmus, never mind maxing out the (much larger) Tech Tree.  One likely way to be sure you have the parts mods to avoid empty nodes would be to do a full Realism Overhaul install, but use Kerbal Size Real Solar System instead of Real Solar System -- extra planets, extra moons, several asteroids instead of just Dres.  You could also just not install a planets mod at all and play in the stock Kerbol system, of course...

[XLjedi]

@Zeiss Ikon  Does it (by chance) allow you to repair/replace the failed parts while deployed?  Maybe if an engineer is on board?  That's probably my only aversion to part failure mods, is the ability to make repairs in space (aside from KAS/KIS).  I'd hate for a huge part to break with no hope for repairs.

[Zeiss Ikon]

I'm not the expert here.  I've had Oh Scrap! installed for a couple days, and neither that nor Test Flight are in Kerbin-based installs where I might reasonably get to the point of having significant crew population -- in RO, where I have them, the longest I've ever gone is uncrewed Lunar flyby and impact missions, near the limit of technology based on ca. 1960-1961 Atlas-alike boosters and pre-Agena single-ignition upper stages; I've never orbited crew in my RO saves.

That said, from reading the Oh Scrap! mod thread (at least the last four-five pages), failures that don't immediately destroy your craft (like loss of thrust in a large SRB during early launch, or an engine explosion) are at least potentially repairable, sometimes remotely (from the ground or from inside the pod), other times requiring an EVA (and likely an Engineer rather than a Pilot).  Test Flight, as far as I know, only affects engines (ignition failure, loss of thrust, rarely an explosive failure) and I wouldn't expect most of its failures to be repairable, if only because most engine failures are relatively catastrophic (cooling passage break or clog, injector failure, turbopump failure, nozzle wall burn through -- none of these are anything I'd expect to be able to repair in flight).  Kerbalism has a parts failure component , from my reading more an afterthought than a core feature.  Dang It! is another parts failure mod, and was the original inspiration for Oh Scrap!, but Dang It! doesn't incorporate parts reuse, while Oh Scrap! is tied to Scrapyard, which puts recovered parts into an inventory that are then reused  (with ability to override reuse or discard parts intentionally) to help cut costs as well as improve reliability (a tested part is more reliable than an untested one, especially in early engineering generations -- at least until it starts to wear out).

I'd generally suggest using Stage Recovery, Scrapyard, and Oh Scrap! together.  Put parachutes on your booster stages and configure them so the parachutes can open without being destroyed, and you can save a bunch of funds as well as seeing the effect of limited reuse of parts.  Add Kerbal Construction Time to the mix, and you can "Recover Active Vessel" (for things like airplanes and intact-recovery rockets) from the KCT menu, then simply refuel and relaunch without repeating the entire construction period.

 

[XLjedi]

On 2/9/2020 at 12:39 AM, linuxgurugamer said:

Please go ahead with this, I am going to need them regardless of whether i use the Achievements mod or not

Are these OK?

I put em here in a zip folder.  They are 640x640 PNG files and I included the GIMP file I made.  I took about half of them almost straight from the game.

http://xl-logic.com/KSP/icons/Achievement_Icons.zip