Fix All Bugs!

[Dr. Kerbal]

Squad and whoever works on KSP and KSP EE. Can you please take a look at all the bugs! Cause the frame rate is still bad even on PS4. Please fix all bugs!

[RealKerbal3x]

@Dr. Kerbal Fixing every single bug in every edition of the game would be astronomically expensive, and I doubt SQUAD gets that much money from sales of the game and the DLCs anymore. And - unless they were exceptionally careful - adding any new features after that would introduce more bugs. (Not to mention that some tiny bugs have little to no effect on the functionality of the game, making them a waste of time to fix in most cases).

Bug free software is very rare, unless it's a three-line 'Hello World' program or a piece of military software with essentially unlimited budget. The best SQUAD can do is try and eliminate as many bugs as possible in every release.

[mikegarrison]

I love this. It's kind of like telling doctors, "Just cure all diseases!"

[Dr. Kerbal]

Well. Can they just fix the framerate bug.

[mcwaffles2003]

9 minutes ago, Dr. Kerbal said:

Well. Can they just fix the framerate bug.

That's not a bug, that's the physical limitations of your console.

It lacks the computational capabilities of running the game to the specification you would like (It's too slow). If you want to fix that all I can say is build a beefy computer

[Dr. Kerbal]

But can they put that in mind to make it better for console players.

[steuben]

They can have it in mind, and I'd put a dolla' on the pickle barrel that they do. But, there are two reasons why it is difficult, even for non-console folks.

1. MATH!

2. computer SCIENCE!

But as the king of all sciences MATH! is the biggest reason why it is difficult.

[Bej Kerman]

On 10/8/2020 at 5:39 PM, RealKerbal3x said:

The best SQUAD can do is try and eliminate as many bugs as possible in every release.

That would be good, but what would actually be the best is if they went after a few of the high priority bugs first (fuel flow bug, anyone?) before purging loads of the smaller ones. "As many as possible" isn't good enough in my book, but fixing a few really bad things is better.

Edited October 10, 2020 by Bej Kerman

[RealKerbal3x]

2 minutes ago, Bej Kerman said:

That would be good, but what would actually bebe the best is if they went after a few of the high priority bugs first (fuel flow bug, anyone?) before purging loads of the smaller ones. "As many as possible" isn't good enough in my book, but fixing a few really bad things is better.

Of course, trying to get rid of the worst bugs should be the highest priority, and some bugs have no real impact on gameplay, making them less of a priority to fix. 

Perhaps they should try to fix as many bugs as possible and go after the most important ones. In the end, the less buggy the game is, the better

[jimmymcgoochie]

Speaking from experience working in a software development team (as a tester):

Unless you have a gargantuan budget and/or life or death consequences from using any piece of software, there will always be bugs. Some will be simple and easy to fix, others require weeks or even months of effort to fix; some will have a minor impact on everyone whereas others will result in total system failure but for a mere handful of people. Sometimes it’s preferable to leave a bug in the system because fixing it would require a huge rework or rewrite of a fundamental underlying system.

You really think that the game’s developers are just twiddling their thumbs right now without caring about the pile of posts and reports about that fuel transfer bug and others besides? They’re working on the next release which will almost certainly fix the fuel transfer bug (clearly it was too gnarly to patch quickly or a 1.10.2 release would have happened by now) and a few others, as well as whatever new features are coming in 1.11. Besides which, it’s a separate entity that ports the game over to consoles (which have hardware limitations causing lower performance with big vessels) and if things aren’t getting updated on the console versions then it’s their fault, not the developers who make the game.

[pandaman]

8 hours ago, Bej Kerman said:

That would be good, but what would actually bebe the best is if they went after a few of the high priority bugs first (fuel flow bug, anyone?) before purging loads of the smaller ones. "As many as possible" isn't good enough in my book, but fixing a few really bad things is better.

Sometimes it can be really hard to pinpoint what causes a given bug.  Even when the actual fix may be really simple, if you can't find the cause you can't fix it.

Also the fuel transfer bug has a really easy work around that makes it more of a minor inconvenience (check out the thread on that) so its not a big deal if they don't release a patch for it.

 

[Superfluous J]

It's amusing how users don't think developers understand how infuriating bugs are.

[Guest]

On 10/8/2020 at 9:50 AM, Dr. Kerbal said:

Squad and whoever works on KSP and KSP EE. Can you please take a look at all the bugs! Cause the frame rate is still bad even on PS4. Please fix all bugs!

It's kinda a little impossible. No matter how much in quantity there always a bug.

And who said Bugs where a bad thing

[Incarnation of Chaos]

On 10/8/2020 at 1:15 PM, Dr. Kerbal said:

But can they put that in mind to make it better for console players.

Literally how? It's not like they can magically make the 6 year old mobile CPU in the current consoles do more work than it's physically capable of.

Your intentions are good, but at the end of the day you have a few options.

#0 - Build a decent PC (Much cheaper than you'd think).

#1- Wait for KSP2 and hope it's actually decent on the previous gen.

#2 - Or deal with the current level of performance.

I'd love to see them fix the bugs in this game, especially with wheels and terrain. But i don't think politely asking will help at this point.

[Kerbart]

Seriously, we're not asking a lot, only three things:

• Performance: we should be able to run a 10,000 part ship at 60 FPS on a 486DX33 with 4 MB of memory
• Bugs: just none. Not 2, nor 3, none. It's that simple
• Multiplayer: just make sure it implements time warping in a way that makes everyone happy.

Really, that's all we're asking for. Now get back to work!

[Okhin]

9 hours ago, Superfluous J said:

It's amusing how users don't think developers understand how infuriating bugs are.

Have spent months on trying to even reproduce a bug (and sometimes, you think you did, but no, you did not. It's close enough, but it's another bug you found. Yeah. More work.). Often to realize that I need to rewrite that function that's use everywhere else in a code base of thousands and thousands of line of code, which, in turn, would require a hell lot of testing. And potentially creates new bugs, some might be even worse than the one I was working one.

So I flag it as non crictical, and adds a TODO item to the "thing to keep in mind for next code refactoring". And yes, we have a bug. But it's that or ten or hundred of other potential bugs.

AND IT IS FRUSTRATING AS love. Because you solved nothing. And spent days of works on it.

And then there's hundred of other bugs to hunt for. Reproduce, understand, hope their not involving a critical part of the architectures.

And everyone complains about that single bug that you can't fix because you might be an idiot some times.

And then people wonders why did I quit computer science after twenty years of similar issues.

[mcwaffles2003]

On 10/8/2020 at 2:15 PM, Dr. Kerbal said:

But can they put that in mind to make it better for console players.

I think you're asking in the wrong forum for this, you should probably try asking on the AMD and Intel forums why that cant just make a 500Ghz processor with 2Gb of L1 cache.

[kerbiloid]

Quote

Fix All Bugs!

Granted. A fixed bug.

Spoiler

 

Edited October 12, 2020 by kerbiloid

[Misguided Kerbal]

On 10/8/2020 at 10:50 AM, Dr. Kerbal said:

Squad and whoever works on KSP and KSP EE. Can you please take a look at all the bugs! Cause the frame rate is still bad even on PS4. Please fix all bugs!

[Dr. Kerbal]

Okay......................

[Okhin]

Well, there will be bugs.

https://hownot2code.com/2016/11/28/why-software-will-never-be-bugless/

[Pds314]

Maybe specifically it would be nice if they fixed wierd black flickering squares in the terrain, frame rates going to single digits or even sub-1 fps from particles or something when splashing into water (seriously how did you manage that?) and particles appearing in front of where they're supposed to be so as to cause you to fly through them when they should be behind you.

Edited October 16, 2020 by Pds314

[Pds314]

But yeah this isn't really possible. For one thing, that would mean predicting exactly the environment KSP is running in. For another, some "bugs" are not bugs at all but unavoidable consequences of either Unity's physics and graphics(or the physics and graphics of ANY game engine! Unity isn't special). Bugs in hardware are another thing the devs can't fix. If your CPU does something wierd with branch prediction and has to have that disabled for security reasons three decades later, and some simple aspect of Unity's physics goes from taking 10 microseconds per part per timestep to 30 microseconds per part per timestep on CPUs with a particular architecture, then yeah your frame rate or tickrate could drop dramatically from a "bug" that happened in the 1980s and was only discovered by a chip manufacturer now. And one for which KSP has no good solutions.

 

Even looking at just KSP bugs operating in a known environment, finding a bug is non-trivial and so is diagnosing and fixing it. No software could be written time efficiently by human programmers in a way that accounts for every contingency and interaction between everything involved to ensure zero bugs. Not when it's as big in terms of code as KSP is.

On 10/8/2020 at 9:39 AM, RealKerbal3x said:

@Dr. Kerbal Fixing every single bug in every edition of the game would be astronomically expensive, and I doubt SQUAD gets that much money from sales of the game and the DLCs anymore. And - unless they were exceptionally careful - adding any new features after that would introduce more bugs. (Not to mention that some tiny bugs have little to no effect on the functionality of the game, making them a waste of time to fix in most cases).

Bug free software is very rare, unless it's a three-line 'Hello World' program or a piece of military software with essentially unlimited budget. The best SQUAD can do is try and eliminate as many bugs as possible in every release.

"A piece of military software with essentially unlimited budget."

 

LOL. Those are never, and I mean never, bug free. They're arguably some of the worst offenders. Do you know how many hull loss incidents and serious repairs to aircraft have happened from military jets having a bug in their fly by wire system? Even relatively basic things like G limiters aren't perfect. And there are known ways to cheat them in some cases.

 

Remember, we're dealing with the same organizations that sometimes install a critical sensor upside down, drill a hole where it doesn't need to be, or fail to convert from imperial to metric (either at all or with an inverted conversion factor). Their software isn't magically immune to human error simply because it's enormous and expensive. Indeed, compared to the civilian aerospace industry, militaries suffer from secrecy and compartmentalization, small production numbers, fewer flights, and typically less oversight or institutional fear of accidents. Small numbers of users make bugs harder to find too. The same can be said of many other aspects as well.

 

Not to mention the user isn't necessarily guaranteed reliable either. No amount of bugfixing can make garbage in result in anything but garbage out. And the amount of garbage input a 19-year-old with no higher education, sleep deprived, on 2 or 3 different illegal stimulants at once just to stay functional, bored to tears, and nursing a serious head injury can put in is gonna be pretty high.

Edited October 16, 2020 by Pds314

[natsirt721]

You will probably never see the enhancements you want for two reasons:

1. KSP2 is in development. For any studio this is going to be the primary focus.

2. Its pretty obvious that KSP EE was a cash-grab to try to open the market up to more causal console players. From the sheer number of separate keys I use to fly some of my vehicles it seems insane to attempt to reduce that to controller inputs, but alas, they tried. And failed, from what the reviews suggest. The games runs mostly fine most of the time, and with a 64 on metacritic the aren't going to be too concerned about trying to save that reputation. 

tl;dr console is not the primary audience, and thus won't get as much effort as the PC build. Sorry you got duped, just get a PC.

[MZ_per_X1]

I agree that bugs need fixing. However, recently the game crashes even during the building stage in the VAB. That means that the game is recently unplayable. Crashes several times in an hour. That is bad. What physics calculations would slow the hardware and software down if you are just building a craft. 

You might just ask for your money back if it's so poorly supported.