The Elcano Challenge: Ground-Based Circumnavigation (4th)

[Poppa Wheelie]

8 hours ago, 18Watt said:

No, you need to actually fly all replacement vehicles into position.  No cheating into position.

 

OK, thanks for the clarification.

I already went ahead and cheated a new vehicle into place a few days ago, and I'm part way through the circumnavigation now.  I'm going to complete the mission with this vehicle, and I just won't claim Elcano credit for Eve.

Thanks also for the tip on locking the rotors.  Wish I would have known about that one beforehand, but definitely something to take care of next time.

And yes, I've noticed the rotor sag.  It doesn't look too bad yet, still plenty of clearance.  Hopefully it will be good enough to complete the mission. 

I'm hopeful also that KSP2 will not have these kinds of issues.  If I ever come back for an Eve Elcano, it will probably be in KSP2.  Likewise, if I ever get to any of the other CBs for which I have not yet completed an Elcano, I will most likely do them in KSP2 (if doable).  How will Grand Master credit work with a mix of KSP1 and KSP2 circumnavigations?

[18Watt]

33 minutes ago, Poppa Wheelie said:

How will Grand Master credit work with a mix of KSP1 and KSP2 circumnavigations?

That is an excellent question!  I haven't worked out the answer to that yet.  After seeing what KSP2 actually looks like, I'll start working on a plan.  Meanwhile, ideas from participants are welcome..

 

[OJT]

10 hours ago, 18Watt said:

I'll add ya to the board tonight.  I think most of us will admit, doing an Elcano with Parallax is taking the madness to another level.  Maybe even another universe.  Congratulations!  And I still can't believe you not only came over to the dark-side of rovering, but did it with Parallax!

 

To be fair, I did the run on Duna. Which in general isn't really that bad: enough gravity to have grip, plenty of smooth plains, and the Parallax itself wasn't that much of an obstacle really. Most of the rocks were small enough to just drive over, and most of the rocks don't even have colliders in the first place: only medium to large size rocks usually have colliders and at that point, it is easier to just drive around them than over them. I may have been the first to actually do a run with Parallax, but I genuinely think most of the Elcano veterans here will easily manage to do Parallax runs

Madness would be to do a Parallax run on Eve, but I value my sanity and free time way too much for that

[MythicalHeFF]

17 hours ago, 18Watt said:

I would also add that once on Eve, my rotors ended up 'sagging', or drifting downwards on the vessel during the circumnavigation.  I do not know of a fix or way to prevent this.  But if your propellers are only just barely clearing the water or ground, you may want to mount them just a little higher- because they may end up 'sagging' closer to the ground during your journey.

A bit late for this now, but during my Kerbin circumnavigations, I found that saving and reloading the game frequently seemed to greatly accelerate the rate of the distortion. Although it can be hard to do, keeping quicksave loading to a minimum can greatly reduce propeller blade distortion.
Another thing I found is that stopping and activating regular time warp automatically resets the positions of all parts, which can be helpful in preventing propeller blades from moving out of position. 

[damerell]

On 2/18/2023 at 3:25 PM, 18Watt said:

That is an excellent question!  I haven't worked out the answer to that yet.  After seeing what KSP2 actually looks like, I'll start working on a plan.  Meanwhile, ideas from participants are welcome.

I think I expect KSP2 to have all the same planets as KSP1 at the same size, and a similarly janky wheel implementation. If so I'd suggest Grand Master is for doing all those planets whichever version of KSP you did them in, mix and match, whatever. That would cause the least disruption to people who switch to KSP2 during the challenge, and neither option would really be enormously harder than the other (and honestly, if KSP2 has a non-janky wheel implementation, great, lucky KSP2 players...)

 

There could then be a "Grand Master 2" badge which includes all of KSP2's additional planets, but permits you to use KSP1 circumnavigations started before the release of KSP2 for credit (so you don't have to rove around Eve a second time with a slightly different user interface, but you have to use KSP2 for the KSP2 badge when it becomes feasible).

[king of nowhere]

On 2/18/2023 at 5:03 PM, OJT said:

To be fair, I did the run on Duna. Which in general isn't really that bad: enough gravity to have grip, plenty of smooth plains, and the Parallax itself wasn't that much of an obstacle really. Most of the rocks were small enough to just drive over, and most of the rocks don't even have colliders in the first place: only medium to large size rocks usually have colliders and at that point, it is easier to just drive around them than over them. I may have been the first to actually do a run with Parallax, but I genuinely think most of the Elcano veterans here will easily manage to do Parallax runs

Madness would be to do a Parallax run on Eve, but I value my sanity and free time way too much for that

I'm considering using that mod myself, so let me get this straight:

I tested the mod, and i run into all the stones i saw, and none of them caused a collision. do parallax also add stuff that causes collisions? or maybe those are juust the obstacles from before, the ground features related to the breaking ground expansion?

[OJT]

6 minutes ago, king of nowhere said:

I'm considering using that mod myself, so let me get this straight:

I tested the mod, and i run into all the stones i saw, and none of them caused a collision. do parallax also add stuff that causes collisions? or maybe those are juust the obstacles from before, the ground features related to the breaking ground expansion?

Collisions are in "beta" and are turned off by default. You will need to edit the config file to get collidable rocks: instructions should be in the Parallax mod thread

Just know that colliders are in "beta" for a reason: collider generation can be quite inconsistent at times. But it is still workable, as you can see from my Elcano run

[18Watt]

13 hours ago, damerell said:

and a similarly janky wheel implementation.

Oh boy do I hope your prediction is not accurate!

13 hours ago, damerell said:

I'd suggest Grand Master is for doing all those planets whichever version of KSP you did them in, mix and match, whatever. That would cause the least disruption to people who switch to KSP2 during the challenge, and neither option would really be enormously harder than the other (and honestly, if KSP2 has a non-janky wheel implementation, great, lucky KSP2 players...)

Having not seen the actual game, here's my current thoughts:

• Assuming the Kerbol system planets are basically the same, keep the current badge system.  Grand Master for all stock planets, the ones which also appeared in KSP1.  Same for Master Mariner, and Planetary Navigator.
• One idea is to allow substitutions for a few of the planets.  For example, if you skip Gilly, but do a circumnavigation of a similar planet in one of the new systems, perhaps allow that substitution to count as your Gilly equivalent.  However, the legacy Elcano rules require all rovers and support/replacement stuff to be flown from KSC.  That's painful enough in the original system, not sure how much more painful that would be for interstellar journeys.

13 hours ago, damerell said:

There could then be a "Grand Master 2" badge which includes all of KSP2's additional planets, but permits you to use KSP1 circumnavigations started before the release of KSP2 for credit (so you don't have to rove around Eve a second time with a slightly different user interface, but you have to use KSP2 for the KSP2 badge when it becomes feasible).

I absolutely agree that there will need to be a crazy badge for players who go beyond Grand Master.  Here's some thoughts on the other comments:

• At this time, I fully intend to continue to accept circumnavigations completed in KSP1.  I'm open to hearing arguments against that idea, but my feeling is these are going to be valid entries, regardless of wether KSP2 is available or not.
• I agree that for KSP2 badges, you should be doing those in KSP2.  Seems obvious, right?  Well, hang on..  I would not be at all surprised if KSP2 planets were made available in mods for KSP1.  If so, I would require KSP2 circumnavigations to happen playing KSP2.

Changing the subject slightly, one of my goals when I assumed the caretaker of Elcano position was to compile a list of every Elcano run completed, going back to the original Elcano challenge by @Fengist, as well as the versions run by @Claw and @rkarmark.  The current leaderboards do have most of the submissions going all the way back to the original Elcano.  I almost certainly missed a few, but I'm confident the leaderboards contain at least 98% of Elcano completions.  I plan on continuing that, even if I end up making a new Elcano thread.  This is one of those challenges where the version of the game you did the challenge in does not really affect the difficulty.  And after all these years, the number of names on the leaderboards is still pretty short..

Thanks for the suggestions!  And keep them coming!

[Poppa Wheelie]

On 2/18/2023 at 5:10 PM, Jack Joseph Kerman said:

Another thing I found is that stopping and activating regular time warp automatically resets the positions of all parts

@Jack Joseph Kerman, I assume by this you mean that everything will be reset to however it was at the last load, or something like that?

As a test, I just loaded a save where the vehicle had both messed up propellers, and sagging rotors.  This was on Eve (so, in atmosphere).  I used period and comma to start and stop regular time warp (or do I need to do something different in atmosphere to activate regular time warp?).  After returning to 1x speed I saw no improvement for the propellers or the rotors.

Is anyone aware of a method for forcing the vehicle to revert to the configuration "as built"?  Is there a straightforward method for editing the save file (specifically for propellers and rotors)?  Would editing the save file disqualify the vehicle for Elcano credit?

[MythicalHeFF]

5 hours ago, Poppa Wheelie said:

@Jack Joseph Kerman, I assume by this you mean that everything will be reset to however it was at the last load, or something like that?

Unfortunately, yes. At this time I do not know of a way of resetting the positions of parts to their initial state if the game has already been loaded with them in a distorted state.

[OJT]

Probably a bit offtopic, but I saw Matt Lowne's recent KSP2 video where he built a Duna rover, and the offroading seems even jankier than in KSP1 (at least from the video) 

@18Watt seems like the pain is going to continue for a while

[Sp1f]

On 2/20/2023 at 8:43 PM, 18Watt said:

Oh boy do I hope your prediction is not accurate!

Having not seen the actual game, here's my current thoughts:

• Assuming the Kerbol system planets are basically the same, keep the current badge system.  Grand Master for all stock planets, the ones which also appeared in KSP1.  Same for Master Mariner, and Planetary Navigator.
• One idea is to allow substitutions for a few of the planets.  For example, if you skip Gilly, but do a circumnavigation of a similar planet in one of the new systems, perhaps allow that substitution to count as your Gilly equivalent.  However, the legacy Elcano rules require all rovers and support/replacement stuff to be flown from KSC.  That's painful enough in the original system, not sure how much more painful that would be for interstellar journeys.

I absolutely agree that there will need to be a crazy badge for players who go beyond Grand Master.  Here's some thoughts on the other comments:

• At this time, I fully intend to continue to accept circumnavigations completed in KSP1.  I'm open to hearing arguments against that idea, but my feeling is these are going to be valid entries, regardless of wether KSP2 is available or not.
• I agree that for KSP2 badges, you should be doing those in KSP2.  Seems obvious, right?  Well, hang on..  I would not be at all surprised if KSP2 planets were made available in mods for KSP1.  If so, I would require KSP2 circumnavigations to happen playing KSP2.

Changing the subject slightly, one of my goals when I assumed the caretaker of Elcano position was to compile a list of every Elcano run completed, going back to the original Elcano challenge by @Fengist, as well as the versions run by @Claw and @rkarmark.  The current leaderboards do have most of the submissions going all the way back to the original Elcano.  I almost certainly missed a few, but I'm confident the leaderboards contain at least 98% of Elcano completions.  I plan on continuing that, even if I end up making a new Elcano thread.  This is one of those challenges where the version of the game you did the challenge in does not really affect the difficulty.  And after all these years, the number of names on the leaderboards is still pretty short..

Thanks for the suggestions!  And keep them coming!

Maybe there should just be a clean slate. Separate leaderboards for KSP1 and KSP2. The experience of doing a surface circumnavigation may be somewhat comparable between the two games at first, but I don’t know if that will last. They’re talking about forests of collidable trees and stuff. I feel like it’s going to be a different experience, probably more difficult.

The rules may not make sense either. Interstellar rover journeys may not be super feasible. RTGs have a shelf life, for example. Launching from remote colonies should probably be allowed. There should probably be separate awards for Kerbol Grand Master and Debdeb or whatever Grand Master.

 

[damerell]

You're permitted to refuel. I'm not the ruleskerbal, but I don't see why attaching a fresh RTG would be prohibited - assuming you can manufacture one extra-Kerbol (but more generally, if I can take a spaceship interstellar and deal with its electricity needs, surely I can also deal with a rover's?).

 

I guess I'm concerned with the feelbad of being, well, where I am (halfway through the Joolian moons), wanting to get KSP2 and play it, but then either having to repeat a bunch of worlds or lock myself out of Grand Master.

However, I _don't_ plan to get KSP2 in the immediate future - certainly not until I finish up Elcano - so IDK if someone who does wants to comment.

On 2/21/2023 at 1:43 AM, 18Watt said:

 I almost certainly missed a few, but I'm confident the leaderboards contain at least 98% of Elcano completions.

There's a Pol and a Bop in the 2% right now. ;-)

[18Watt]

4 hours ago, damerell said:

There's a Pol and a Bop in the 2% right now. ;-)

I'm embarrassed, I missed them!  I see them now though, and I'll get them tonight.

Updated!  Two more entries, both by @damerell, completed Bop and Pol.  The entries were roughly a month ago, and I missed them, apologies!

@damerell, I think it was on Pol you mentioned problems with your ISRU drills not reaching the surface.  I've seen that too, and I think it's a fairly common issue.  Sometimes I'm able to get the drills working by moving to a different location.  Sometimes even that doesn't work.  Thankfully the gravity is low enough it's usually possible to get back to orbit and reach another CB (like Bop), even with a small amount of fuel remaining.  One of many issues I hope will disappear with KSP2..

Congratulations on two more Elcano entries!

Edited February 23, 2023 by 18Watt

[damerell]

1 hour ago, 18Watt said:

I'm embarrassed, I missed them!  I see them now though, and I'll get them tonight.

Goodness me, don't be at all, you organise the challenge.

Drill difficulties were  on Pol, but it changed while I was away from the mothership, and it seemed not unrelated to the "soft ground" the rover sank into. USI Life Support is doing a good job of making my game tricky by limiting the time the Hangarmoth can spend down on any given world digging up stuff; of course I'd be sad if I had to literally abandon, but by a happy coincidence it's come out just right where every time I land I have to think how much I can improve my resource situation.

[Sp1f]

Vall circumnavigation complete!

For background, I did this circumnavigation with Rover 1, the same rover used for my Minmus entry. Relevant pictures of launching from KSC are there. This is a "stock craft" entry.

I began this adventure by undocking from Rover 1's berth at Mun Station and heading for LKO. I then rendezvoused with a new lander, designed for the moons of Jool. With the new lander, i headed to Jool, docked to Laythe Station for refueling, then headed to Vall. Here are some pictures from the journey there:

Spoiler

Leaving Mun Station

Burning for LKO

Docking to my LKO Fuel Depot

Launching the new lander

Rendezvous

Swapping Landers

Burning for Jool

Arrival at Jool

Orbiting Laythe

Refueling at Laythe Station

Transfer to Vall

There she is.

This landing was special for Val after a few years in The Chair

I've already shared some pictures from the journey here, but here are a few more-

Spoiler

Beginning the route at Vallhenge

The time that Vall turned purple

Doing a flip

Approaching the North Pole

Val takes in the view from the Pole

Roving

Finishing at Vallhenge

And  done!

Edited February 24, 2023 by Sp1f

[18Watt]

22 hours ago, Sp1f said:

Vall circumnavigation complete!

Got ya added @Sp1f, nice job!

[Ianwubby]

Having my first go at one of these, starting with Kerbin! Still have a long way to go...

Setup:

Spoiler

Here we have the craft that will, with any luck, deliver Jebediah Kerman all the way around Kerbin!

And here we have the intrepid adventurer himself, posing next to the craft - and next to a flag planted to commemorate the start of the journey! The other flag is from the previous attempt, in which the vessel had some major design flaws that we'll discuss more in a bit.

And off we go!

Now by this point, you might be thinking to yourself, "wow, that's a kind of weird looking craft, especially since it seems like you're aiming for the water. Not a very good design for a boat, there." And the answer to that is twofold. For one, my design skills are not the greatest thing in the world. But, for two...

...anyone ever done an undersea Elcano before?

So yeah, I'm gonna be trying to do an ocean-floor Elcano! Which, as it turns out, poses quite a few logistical problems. The most obvious issue is keeping the craft submerged, which I solved by just slapping a bunch of ore tanks all over the rover. The actual big problem is propulsion, because these wheels are absolutely horrible underwater. So I slapped a jet engine on top to provide a boost!

This poses additional problems, such as "where are you going to get all of the necessary fuel from?". Well, my first idea was to utilize ISRU for everything - but this turned out to be an enormous pain, for quite a few reasons, and I ended up calling that attempt off after completing the first leg of the journey. In fact, the target I have highlighted in these pics is from that first attempt! My new solution to the fuel problem was to just drop refueling stations to the sea floor whenever I needed them - that's what the docking port on the front of the rover is for.

Regardless, more pics from leg 1 of the journey:

Spoiler

14 minutes into the drive, after already descending almost 800 meters below the surface, there are a couple of large drop-offs that take you even deeper...

58 minutes into the journey, we finally rendezvous with the first checkpoint 971 meters below the surface...

Jeb gets out of his capsule and uses his handy-dandy overhead incline to push himself down to the sea floor, where he plants the first checkpoint flag of his mission!

Everything had gone smoothly up to this point, and the second leg would go quite smoothly as well... Up until the refueling process, anyway.

Spoiler

Unfortunately, while the jet engine on this craft is sufficient to keep it at speed, it actually isn't enough to get up to speed -  where "up to speed" means like, 7 m/s. Thankfully though, a quick burn with the afterburner is enough to get it over that wall.

There really isn't all that much to say about the journey... The ocean floor is just, completely devoid of anything interesting, besides abstract milestones like depth.

Speaking of which, 1 kilometer deep!

2 hours and 18 minutes into the journey, the rover is finally in need of refueling...

...I'm not proud of this aircraft design, I just needed something that worked well enough to deliver a refueling station.

After splashing down, the bay doors are opened and the refueling station is dropped into the sea, and descends to the sea floor! Landing just under 1 kilometer away from the rover.

I quickly drive the rover to the station, and move in to dock...

And that's when I discover an issue! I tested the docking port alignment on the surface - when the craft is getting pulled down by gravity! But here, 850 meters below the surface of the ocean, the suspension in the wheels is strong enough to keep the buoyant craft too high to dock!

So, uh, I spent a long time trying to remedy the situation. And I did, somehow, after many quick-loads and much finagling, eventually manage to get them docked! In, uh... In this configuration, of all things.

After transferring the fuel over, I undocked the station and let it float back up to the surface...

...and Jebediah got out to plant the second checkpoint flag.

 

Edited February 27, 2023 by Ianwubby

[damerell]

That's certainly different, although I admit I'm not completely sure jet engines work underwater. I look forward to the screenshots, even if they are mostly blue.

[Ianwubby]

Realistically they shouldn't, but they do work underwater! Also there are already some screenshots, in the spoilers.

[Ianwubby]

Did a lot more driving!

It's very dark at the bottom of the sea...

New refueling setup:

Spoiler

After the catastrophe that was my first refueling attempt, I've made some design changes. Firstly, a new design for the plane that doesn't include any crew-members, so I don't have to worry about them plummeting to their deaths.

Secondly, a new design for the refueling station that includes claws instead of docking ports! Because I'm lazy.

Refueling station landed, claws extended...

...and it works like a charm! Ez pz "docking", no alignment required.

Watching the station float back up into the darkness...

Jeb posing by the checkpoint

And back off into the great deep blue!

A lot of excitement on leg 4, depending on your definition of "excitement":

Spoiler

First time dipping under 1100 meters

Sunrise!

And then... sun gone???

Oh, that's why

-1189m...

Another refueling plane design, switching back to manned cabins because the last one sucked.

Refueling station dropping in...

Jebediah steers in to dock...

Checkpoint 4 done!

There's a lot less to say about the later checkpoints (and I feel like this will hold true for the vast majority of checkpoints from here on out):

Spoiler

Just chugging along, first time hitting -1200m

Another 3 and a half hours of driving, another couple refueling stops...

Realized I can save the refueling pilots by just ditching the plane!

Another 4 and a half hours later, another depth record! -1249 meters, haven't improved on this one yet.

So close to passing the peninsula...

The peninsula is even in view from the surface now!

Actually, scratch that, it's in view from the bottom, too!

Jeb posing on the seafloor at checkpoint 8.

The path so far...

I'm curious how this would count with regards to the Master Mariner achievement - if it does count, then that means it's possible to get Master Mariner without ever actually sailing, and if it doesn't count, then that means it's possible to circumnavigate Laythe without qualifying for Master Mariner

Edited March 2, 2023 by Ianwubby

[damerell]

Sometimes screenshots are just there to document progress; I cut down on those by using ScanSAT's BTDT tracker, which paints my path on the map.

I had a similar struggle refuelling the Kerbian Sea Monster; I blithely said since it and the refuelling aircraft are the same hull on the same landing gear, same height, right? No, me, one of them is _full of fuel_. I think if I go for the sheer madness of an RSS Earth voyage my plan would be a combination of KIS/KAS winches to drag the docking ports together and simply offsetting the port slightly on the refuelling aircraft. It might be easier to meet in the sea and use Sink Em All to affect buoyancy, but then it would be much harder to bring the ports into rough proximity and much harder for a kerbal to hook winches onto the other vessel (some kind of gantry over the sea?) - but it might be necessary if there isn't, say, a suitable island in the middle of the Pacific big enough to show up on RSS Earth.

On 2/28/2023 at 2:42 AM, Ianwubby said:

Also there are already some screenshots, in the spoilers.

Ah, that got misread; I meant, beyond what we'd already got.

I'm still not the ruleskerbal, but I think it would be much more pleasing to have some kind of recognition of abnormal stunts (surface circumnavigation of Laythe, no-jumps-at-all circumnavigation of Gilly, RSS Earth) and call this surface-Kerbin, not Mariner-Kerbin. Even Master Submariner would not normally crawl along the bottom. :-)

[Ianwubby]

6 hours ago, damerell said:

Ah, that got misread; I meant, beyond what we'd already got.

Ah yeah, that's my bad, just a misunderstanding on my part.

Something like an "abnormal stunt" recognition could definitely work - I was just trying to think how this would fit into the current leaderboard setup without making any changes to the rules. In any case, it doesn't matter too much to me how it gets ruled, I'm just curious about the outcome

[Zacspace]

Finished my Mun run.

Screens/highlights in the spoiler

Spoiler

Where we left off last time. A little under a quarter of the way around

Wasn't paying attention and took a big jump into a crater. it happens.

This time, though, it happened after I had made some revisions to the rover, so instead of quickloading I decided that the next time I crashed in a serious way I'd replace it with an upgraded model.

In Munar orbit with transfer stage. Just so you can see I didn't cheat it to the surface.

For some reason I had the setting enabled that makes me require signal for control, so this is as close as I was reasonably able to land my new rover to the crash site.

Which meant driving all the way over there on 2 wheels. Jeb went alone for this one. Figured it was better to just risk one Kerbal on such a scuffed journey, but realistically I would have quickloaded if anyone died, so I might as well have sent everyone.

New and improved. Marginally. After this I came up with even more ideas and tweaks. I also noticed more problems . Notable about this revision, it fits all the different helmets, has VTOL thrusters instead of forward thrusters (both going unused in this run) and fewer parts/less ugly clipping.

"Get in losers, we're going back to where we started

but like, in the dumbest possible way" - Jebediah Kerman

At this point I noticed that disembarking a kerbal form the rear seat gets them stuck in the roof, breaking the solar panel. I had sent repair kits with the new rover, so it was fine, but I consider that to be a major issue with the design. One that I'm not sure how I'm going to fix.

Escaping a crater within a crater. Not the one I crashed in before. One of the big-big ones. I think I'm about halfway around the mun in this shot. Shortly after this I realize that When I sent over the new rover I advanced time a bit, so I won't de driving through as much night time as I was planning to. A major goal of this mission was to test the range of my rover on fuel cell only power.

So I advanced time some more. This isn't looking drivable.

Some graphics adjustments and activating the kerbal's headlamps though, is enough to see us though. I disabled the rover's headlights to conserve electricity. A certain amount of LFO was consumed during timewarp just by the probe core and whatever other phantom power draw.

I left out a lot of screens of myself absent mindedly yeeting the rover into the abyss. It took it just fine most of the time. Not this time though. This was a quickload. Overall pleasantly surprised by the durability and drivability of this rover, though. If I didn't know better I'd say it was designed for this.

Nearing the destination. Starting from an easter egg was definitely the way to go. I could see it from pretty far away.

The route I took. Nothing crazy.

One of the main things I wanted to learn from this mission was whether or not I could drive across a whole hemisphere of a CB in darkness with my rover, and these results are promising. I used about %40 of my fuel and made it a little under halfway around the Mun. Suggests I could do a whole circumnavigation in darkness if I wanted to, on the Mun at least. For now I'm going to go ahead and not carry on to Duna. Since KSP2 dropped and then dropped the ball, I'm un-mothballing some other missions and builds.

[18Watt]

On 2/27/2023 at 1:14 PM, Ianwubby said:

...anyone ever done an undersea Elcano before?

I'm pretty sure the answer is no..

On 2/27/2023 at 1:14 PM, Ianwubby said:

...I'm not proud of this aircraft design, I just needed something that worked well enough to deliver a refueling station.

If it works, you should be proud!  Heck, even if it doesn't work, you should still be proud!

On 2/27/2023 at 1:14 PM, Ianwubby said:

And that's when I discover an issue! I tested the docking port alignment on the surface

Sufrace docking is a real pain.  It looks like you are working things out on your own, but check in here if you need some tips.  

Welcome to the craziness of Elcano @Ianwubby!  Gotta admit, you are raising the bar on the insanity several notches!

 

On 3/1/2023 at 8:47 PM, Ianwubby said:

I'm curious how this would count with regards to the Master Mariner achievement

Give me a day or two to process this.  This has never come up before, you are the first.