Where are the devs?

[Bej Kerman]

1 minute ago, Scarecrow71 said:

Well, having them in KSP2 but having the calculations not be correct isn't good either.

At least it's there and mostly works, unlike KSP 1 where you had to rely on third party measures for something that arguably should have been present at least before 0.17 brought planets and dV became very important. It's present here in KSP 2 from the very start and I expect it'll be fixed in the future - it's not a case of it being completely absent and planned for "when it's ready" (at the very least half a decade), like it was with Squad.

That's what really gives me hope for KSP 2. Yes, there's no thermals, radiation, etc. But the foundation is there, and the developers aren't skipping out on critical bottom-layer features such as dV, persistent thrust and properly-functioning maneuver nodes.

[Alexoff]

26 minutes ago, Bej Kerman said:

"Blindly" is getting planets in 0.17 and waiting over half a decade for a dV indicator. THAT is blind.

But we got this indicator in the mechjeb. True, this is a mod, which means it added bugs to the game. I'm still waiting for you to tell me about the bugs that KSP1 mods create.

27 minutes ago, Periple said:

Negative feedback from social media though is extremely draining emotionally and super demotivating.

Very comfortably! When I decide to hand over badly done work to my management, I will say that there is no need to scold me or fire me, because it upsets and demotivates me.

29 minutes ago, Periple said:

You'll want the devs fixing the problems, not obsessing over social media, let alone trying to do damage control with angry fans.

It seems that there is a development manager and audience managers for this. They don't seem to have anything to say either.

31 minutes ago, Periple said:

No, KSP2 is just unfinished. There is nothing fundamentally wrong with it. It's just not ready.

This is very bad, if these are the results of the work of 40 people over 5 years, then I have bad news for them.

33 minutes ago, Periple said:

TT started PD to look for promising franchises and grow them.

It seems that the growth of the franchise has not gone as planned. And what are we talking about? Will there be an RPG for KSP2? Or a dating sim? Will they sell toys?

[Periple]

Just now, Alexoff said:

It seems that the growth of the franchise has not gone as planned. And what are we talking about? Will there be an RPG for KSP2? Or a dating sim? Will they sell toys?

I don't know but I'm quite curious to find out!

[Rossinero]

8 hours ago, coyotesfrontier said:

Where is everybody?

They're probably swimming in money right now. 

[Alexoff]

6 minutes ago, Bej Kerman said:

That's what really gives me hope for KSP 2. Yes, there's no thermals, radiation, etc. But the foundation is there, and the developers aren't skipping out on critical bottom-layer features such as dV, persistent thrust and properly-functioning maneuver nodes.

And rightly so - what does it matter about the non-working parts that were made in KSP1, because we have broken dV calculator! It changes everything! Well, what can not be built and edited a normal maneuver is not important at all! You would also say that the stripes behind the wings of aircraft fundamentally change the game

2 minutes ago, Periple said:

I don't know but I'm quite curious to find out!

I have similar sad feelings when someone begins to enthusiastically tell me about his absolutely hopeless love.

[HansAcker]

6 minutes ago, Alexoff said:

I'm still waiting for you to tell me about the bugs that KSP1 mods create.

Ugh. Lots of bugs. Sometimes save-breaking, sometimes just crashes, sometimes they affect other mods. Sometimes they just sneak a single NaN in and your game explodes a few sessions later.

 

Edited February 27, 2023 by HansAcker

[Bej Kerman]

4 minutes ago, Alexoff said:

39 minutes ago, Bej Kerman said:

"Blindly" is getting planets in 0.17 and waiting over half a decade for a dV indicator. THAT is blind.

But we got this indicator in the mechjeb

  Again. Squad relying on 3rd parties to do their job of making a game with the most basic features implemented. These are basic features and you think you're making some kind of point for KSP 1 when telling me "but mods!". Mods, and KSP 1's reliance on them, just hammer in how unfit Squad was to make anything bigger than a mobile game.

[Alexoff]

7 minutes ago, HansAcker said:

Ugh. Lots of bugs. Sometimes save-breaking, sometimes just crashes, sometimes they affect other mods. Sometimes they just sneak a single NaN in and your game explodes a few sessions later.

 

I have never seen such a thing. What mods are causing this?

8 minutes ago, Bej Kerman said:

Again. Squad relying on 3rd parties to do their job of making a game with the most basic features implemented. These are basic features and you think you're making some kind of point for KSP 1 when telling me "but mods!". Mods, and KSP 1's reliance on them, just hammer in how unfit Squad was to make anything bigger than a mobile game.

That is, in KSP2 we will not need mods? I hope T2 will block mods. Why do we need such a mod? After all, the game is well done!

[HansAcker]

4 minutes ago, Alexoff said:

I have never seen such a thing. What mods are causing this?

Different mods have different bugs. Kerbalism once killed a save of mine setting some part masses to NaN. MiniAVC and Firespitter were known to cause bugs early in the loading process, leading to unpredictable behaviour later on. And that's not even mentioning "harmless" exceptions thrown left and right (Scatterer in the VAB, some part mods, etc.).

Join the log readers here:

https://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/forum/70-ksp1-technical-support-pc-modded-installs/

Edited February 27, 2023 by HansAcker

[Alexoff]

2 minutes ago, HansAcker said:

Different mods have different bugs. Kerbalism once killed a save of mine setting some part masses to NaN. MiniAVC and Firespitter were known to cause bugs early in the loading process, leading to unpredictable behaviour later on. And that's not even mentioning "harmless" exceptions thrown left and right (Scatterer in the VAB, some part mods, etc.).

Join the log readers here:

https://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/forum/70-ksp1-technical-support-pc-modded-installs/

I did not use any of these mods except for the scatterer. Scatterer bugs have always been harmless. 95% of the bugs were from the game itself.

[Bej Kerman]

7 minutes ago, Alexoff said:

That is, in KSP2 we will not need mods?

You won't need mods FOR SOMETHING AS BASIC AS A DELTA-V READOUT.

[HansAcker]

1 minute ago, Alexoff said:

Scatterer bugs have always been harmless.

Except when Scatterer turns off all lighting in the KSC. Granted, this one is a mod interaction problem in that I only experience it with JNSQ and recent Scatterer (older versions do not show the same behaviour).

Anyway, KSP 1 mods have bugs. Lots of bugs. What exactly was your point?

[justmeman117]

8 hours ago, LoSBoL said:

There is a Dutch saying that applies here, sit still when being shaved. 

On a sidenote I hope they are working their bottoms off creating a 1st day patch, which is late already. 

This.

Gamers generally forgave No Mans Sky after it spent years listening to player feedback and massively improving the game... But who here heard a peep out of Sean Murray after that game released?

I kinda hope Nate Simpson doesnt dissappear into the background like... Well... That Simpson meme (pun intended), I actually like the guy. Besides maybe the "slay the kraken" goal (which, I think the devs will learn the hard way, it will never be truly slain in any physics based game like this). I generally dont think KSP 2 or Nate overpromised on release like the NMS did. They were pretty up front about what you get in the EA (and, they CALL it an EA. NMS released in EA in all ways EXCEPT by name), they were up front about what features are on the road map, and they didnt try to hide the performance issues (they LITERALLY made the minimum specs and ideal specs listed as super high to make that point... People got mad at that... They responded by lowering those requirements... Then people got mad at the performance, lol). Probably the biggest thing was letting youtubers play it prerelease and didnt hold them to any major NDAs in regards to bugs and performance issues... And those youtubers to their credit, SHOWED those problems.

... I guess in short, I get why people are dissappointed, but I dont know why theyre THIS mad about it, to the point of getting so many refunds and giving negative reviews day 1... My guy, we had plenty of info on how this release was going to look, most of the people who got refunds shouldnt have bought it in the first place. I knew I was buying a buggy mess for a GTX 1070 well before clicking buy. I knew the game was probably going to have a bad release even just watching the dev videos, you can see their rigs chug trying to make the game look good on high graphics settings

Anyway, point is, I really dont think the dev team are deserving of this level of backlash. This just isnt NMS or Anthem, or any in another long line, they never tried to sell you on a full game day 1. How many asterisks do you really need after "Early Access"? Furthermore, I'd be willing to bet this release date at this price was a take two decision they forced. Nate's normally pretty happy go lucky in the dev videos, but the dude just looks really stressed out in that Matt Lowne interview, like he knew what trainwreck was coming. I genuinely dont think he wanted to release it in this state. Unfortunately, we'll probably never know, because publisher/developer contracts probably have all sorts of legalease saying "take the blame when bad crap happens over terrible publisher decisions, never badmouth us". If it were still a Star Theory project and not "Intercept Games", they probably woulda left the game in the oven another year or two, and released with some FPS optimizations day 1.

In any event, players be mad, and the last thing I want is the dev team going through thousands of angry hot takes, getting depressed about it on one side, while being dev grinded by Take Two on the other side. I'd rather they just sift through legit feedback and bugs from the people who didnt refund day 1, and leave their public socials off for like... I dunno... A solid 6 months? It'll help productivity, and by then, they'll hopefully have a couple solid patches under their belt to alleviate a few of the bugs and performance issues.

I already think its a good sign that, A, KSP 2 at least CAN use more GPU/CPU resources (KSP 1 refused to use your full rig), and B, that one of their first goals is tackling fuel flow FPS hits. Stratzenblitz identified that issue in KSP 1, and I dont think Squad ever addressed it.

[Scarecrow71]

29 minutes ago, Alexoff said:

I have never seen such a thing. What mods are causing this?

That is, in KSP2 we will not need mods? I hope T2 will block mods. Why do we need such a mod? After all, the game is well done!

What mod is in place to get that popup?  That is awesome.

[mcwaffles2003]

32 minutes ago, Alexoff said:

That is, in KSP2 we will not need mods? I hope T2 will block mods. Why do we need such a mod? After all, the game is well done!

This is an insanely dishonest argument... You do recognize the difference in needing and relying on mods to make a game comfortably playable vs having mods to tailor a players game to their tastes, right?

[radimov]

But where are the devs?

[mcwaffles2003]

8 minutes ago, regex said:

This. Games have been underpriced for a very long time.

2006 is there twice. lol, very important year

[Missingno200]

Just now, mcwaffles2003 said:

2006 is there twice. lol, very important year

It's the year ROBLOX released for open alpha so I'd say so

[justmeman117]

11 minutes ago, regex said:

This. Games have been underpriced for a very long time.

THIS.

And honestly, I'd rather fixed prices go up to stay in pace with inflation, than continue allowing what publishers started doing 10 years ago INSTEAD of raising prices (hidden monetization out the rear with microtransactions, lootboxes, day 1 DLC, you name it). Prices have been going up in games, just not in the raw price. I'd happily pay 100 dollars for KSP 2 if it came with a written GARUNTEE from Take Two that they will always allow mods and never introduce nonsense like microtransactions.

[regex]

1 minute ago, mcwaffles2003 said:

2006 is there twice. lol, very important year

Yep, it lines up with the upper image, PS3 and Wii.

[Missingno200]

Just now, justmeman117 said:

I'd happily pay 100 dollars for KSP 2 if it came with a written GARUNTEE from Take Two that they will always allow mods and never introduce nonsense like microtransactions.

I'd find it hard to justify that price, unless it came with a joystick or something... I already find it difficult to justify 60 dollar games today. There's a reason why I had way more DS games than Xbox and Wii games.

[magnemoe]

22 minutes ago, Scarecrow71 said:

What mod is in place to get that popup?  That is awesome.

This, it reminds me of Mechjeb maneuver editor who is very useful for precise burns, like an Tylo intercept leaving Kerbin. 

48 minutes ago, Alexoff said:

I did not use any of these mods except for the scatterer. Scatterer bugs have always been harmless. 95% of the bugs were from the game itself.

I say the worst is mods who expanded the game with lots of functionality. visual improvement and stand alone features like Mechjeb tended to be harmless. Yes an visual mod can have visual bugs and even crash the game. Mechjeb had many issues but it was just mechjeb being stupid.
 

[Grease1991]

I started playing KSP back at .19 i think, and have followed the devs and enjoyed the game despite bugs and kraken type issues, and that's was fine because of the fact that this was merely a small team just doing something they were passionate about, 
I was hyped about ksp2 back in 2019 when they announced it and was always on the side of make it right take the time to make it right, 
The problem is that the devs have seemly only cared about attracting people to the KSP world, with shiny graphics and tutorials, and spending time and money on making video about how much they cared, instead of fixing core issues with the game. and making a SOLID CORE to release into EA, 
there are super basic bugs that would have been blindingly obvious, if there was any play testing at all, that aren't even a problem in KSP 1 officially,  due to the old devs fixing it, 

I'm not talking about FPS issues or random things that are hard to repeat, i'm talking about things as simple as making a simple 11 part Plane, be able to roll down the runway without wobbling it self to destruction.

I really hope that they get their priorities straight because every ounce of faith i had in this team died on friday, and the idea of T2 taking the money they have got and running doesn't sound out of character for them, 
I think the people in charge tried to make KSP into an Triple A franchise and focused on the shiny bits of that and i don't think they realized what a difficult thing making KSP is, 

My prediction is that Modders are going to end up fixing way more and improving the game far more than the devs will, until I see something that resembles REAL progress, I'm not going to throw money back at this game, not at 50 bucks,  

[DunaManiac]

5 hours ago, Bej Kerman said:

"We're going to kill the Kraken!"

Not "We killed the Kraken".

That's just semantics and is ultimately a meaningless distinction.

[HebaruSan]

2 minutes ago, DunaManiac said:

That's just semantics and is ultimately a meaningless distinction.

Apropos, since "the kraken" has become a completely meaningless phrase.