Missing Titanic tourist sub

[Gargamel]

Tourist sub has gone missing:

Titanic tourist submersible goes missing with search under way https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-65953872
 

[TheSaint]

2 hours ago, Gargamel said:

Tourist sub has gone missing:

Titanic tourist submersible goes missing with search under way https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-65953872
 

That ain't good.

[kerbiloid]

https://news.sky.com/story/uk-billionaire-hamish-harding-on-board-missing-titanic-submersible-family-confirms-12905616

[Minmus Taster]

The Titan Submersible has gone missing with 5 people on board while diving to the wreck of the RMS Titanic. The sub is owned by OceanGate Expeditions which conducts yearly visits to the wreck to study the remains as it decay's. It also brings along tourists to help fund their efforts. The Titan carries 2 main crew members and 3 others, usually high paying tourists. One of these was rumored to be Blue Origin customer Hamish Harding who flew to space last year. The dive takes around 8 hours, 2 hours down, 4 hours at the wreck, and 2 hours up. The Titan dived down sometime Sunday. The sub last pinged around the 1 hour 45 minute mark after which it hasn't been heard from since. The US and Canadian coast guards are searching for the sub on the surface but it has yet to be found. A statement will be released around now from the coast guard, this is a developing story, some details may be incorrect. Lets hope for a safe return for the crew!

Some details about the sub;

6.4 Meters in length

4000 Meters max depth (Titanic wreck is at 3800 Meters)

5 Man crew capacity

96 hour oxygen supply (with full crew)

Pings location every 15 minutes usually.

Edited June 19, 2023 by Minmus Taster

[Geonovast]

Overlapping threads merged

[tater]

No contact for 7 hours? That can't be good.

The Titanic claims 5 more lives I guess.

[Geonovast]

34 minutes ago, Minmus Taster said:

One of these was rumored to be Blue Origin customer Hamish Harding who flew to space last year

I can't help but keep thinking that if this doesn't end with a happy ending, there will be talks of the New Shepard curse, considering Glen M. de Vries  in Nov 2021.

I can't imagine many situations where this ends happily.

[Minmus Taster]

Since they were near the two hour mark when they were last heard from It's possible they could have hit the wreck during or just after descent. That is a truly horrible way to go, especially if the wreck came down on them. If their still alive at this point they don't have much of a chance if they aren't bobbing on the surface somewhere, just too deep to even think about a rescue attempt.

[StrandedonEarth]

I know the USCG is onsite as well as Canadian assets, but I'm surprised that the USN hasn't been called in, as far as I've heard. I wonder how long it would take to get another deep-sea submersible on site? Come to think of it, I'm surprised they don't carry two submersibles for just such a contingency, even if one is just remotely operated

[TheSaint]

42 minutes ago, StrandedonEarth said:

I know the USCG is onsite as well as Canadian assets, but I'm surprised that the USN hasn't been called in, as far as I've heard. I wonder how long it would take to get another deep-sea submersible on site? Come to think of it, I'm surprised they don't carry two submersibles for just such a contingency, even if one is just remotely operated

There's three possibilities I can think of here:

1. They experienced a catastrophic loss of electrical power. In this case, the sub is designed to fail safe and bob to the surface. This is why the Coast Guard is doing a surface search with air and sea assets, they're looking for the sub bobbing around on the surface dead in the water.

2. They got tangled in the wreckage and were unable to surface. This is unlikely, because they would probably still have power and be pinging and communicating. But it's possible they got trapped somewhere that is blocking their communications. If this is the case, the only folks that can realistically get to them is another deep diving submersible. Ocean Gate only operates the one. There aren't that many other ones. And you can't airlift one to the Titanic site, you have to drive it there on a boat. They only have a couple days of air left at this point. So this scenario will almost assuredly end unhappily.

3. They had a catastrophic flooding accident. If that happened, this isn't a rescue op, this is a recovery op.

But, to get to the point, there isn't anything that the USN can do for any of those three scenarios that isn't already being handled by the Coast Guard. The USN doesn't have anything that dives that deep. The current USN DSRV only goes down to 2,000 feet. Sonar isn't going to tell you anything. What else are they going to do, besides stand around and wave the flag?

[Minmus Taster]

1 hour ago, StrandedonEarth said:

I know the USCG is onsite as well as Canadian assets, but I'm surprised that the USN hasn't been called in, as far as I've heard. I wonder how long it would take to get another deep-sea submersible on site? Come to think of it, I'm surprised they don't carry two submersibles for just such a contingency, even if one is just remotely operated

If you end up in a situation where you need a second deep-dive sub then you're pretty much screwed. It's almost impossible to approach and dock with anything at that depth. Let alone a situation where the first sub is disabled and lying at a weird angle. If they're on the seabed then as bleak as it sounds it's better to hope that they didn't suffer much.

[Nuke]

how close to the wreck were they allowed to go? 

[Minmus Taster]

5 minutes ago, Nuke said:

how close to the wreck were they allowed to go? 

Pretty much right alongside it, a collision or ensnarement is one of the likely explanations for the loss.

I'm curious; if the dive down takes around 2 hours if they make good time and the last ping heard from it was at the 1 hour 45 minute mark is it possible they went down too quick and hit bottom or the wreck due to a miscalculation or an issue? Keep in mind the pings normally come back every 15 minutes.

Edited June 20, 2023 by Minmus Taster

[Nuke]

wouldnt they have heard a big crash on sonar if they hit the wreck (or vise versa)? planting into the silt would have made less noise, but enough to spike on sonar. an implosion would have also made noise. 

[kerbiloid]

7 hours ago, Geonovast said:

I can't help but keep thinking that if this doesn't end with a happy ending, there will be talks of the New Shepard curse, considering Glen M. de Vries  in Nov 2021.

Recalling the story of Copenhagen Suborbitals, of suborbital rocket companies and submersibles...

Edited June 20, 2023 by kerbiloid

[AlamoVampire]

Im really sorry for those who are missing in this incident but it supports my personal feelings: We should leave the Titanic in peace and let the ocean slowly return it to the Earth. Im honestly disgusted by the need of tourists to disturb a solemn site. Its been reported that there are or were (i do not know if scientists who have solid and respectful reasons to be there have removed them) dozens of plaques left on and near the wreck. Its a tragic story (both the Titanic herself and the missing sub) but the ship and any who perished on Titanic should be left in peace. I hope the sub is found safe but hope more that Titanic is left in peace.

000406202023

Edited June 20, 2023 by AlamoVampire

[Superluminal Gremlin]

4 hours ago, TheSaint said:

What else are they going to do, besides stand around and wave the flag?

Attach a magnet? Weak suggestion but they could tow them. Not the DSRV, another deep-diving sub. Triton makes some subs that can go way to far down.

 

56 minutes ago, AlamoVampire said:

We should leave the Titanic in peace and let the ocean slowly return it to the Earth.

That's really the right thing to do. Scientific surveys, yes, Tourism, no. You're making money from thousands of people dying. That's kind of wrong.

 

3 hours ago, Nuke said:

planting into the silt would have made less noise,

A fair bit less. According to CNN (https://edition.cnn.com/2022/11/07/world/titanic-mystery-deep-sea-coral-reef-scn/index.html), there are some rock formations, but apart from that it is a muddy featureless plain. I can't imagine a craft hitting the mud hard enough to produce sound. After all, these subs don't move fast. If it started falling, then maybe, but if it's falling, it's probably crashed into something. I believe it is unlikely that the sub is obscured by the Titanic, as I doubt they go inside. As to the navigation error, I don't know how they do it, so I won't comment.

 

I don't see a happy ending. 

[kerbiloid]

Btw, the pressure is 4 times greater than on Venusian surface.

[Nuke]

1 hour ago, Superluminal Gremlin said:

That's really the right thing to do. Scientific surveys, yes, Tourism, no. You're making money from thousands of people dying. That's kind of wrong.

i think the idea is you take a couple of rich tourists along to fund the expedition. you are still doing scientific things but you got a couple people on board for the ride. but if you are carrying tourists, you really should be keeping safe distance. 

[Superluminal Gremlin]

@Nuke

Fair, you have a point. 

19 minutes ago, kerbiloid said:

4 times greater

Impressive. 

[Minmus Taster]

8 hours ago, Nuke said:

wouldnt they have heard a big crash on sonar if they hit the wreck (or vise versa)? planting into the silt would have made less noise, but enough to spike on sonar. an implosion would have also made noise. 

I do not believe there was any sonar equipment in the area until the USCG was called in several hours later. If there was a sound it was missed, maybe it was picked up by a more distant sensor but it's a remote area.

[Gargamel]

Undersea cable laying ship has arrived on scene for the search.   They have multiple DSRoV vehicles available, and presumably maybe the ability to drop a line and lift something up that far.    If not, then finding the sub would be a great start.  Something with lifting capabilities is probably enroute.    
 

They supposedly have a 5 day air supply.   So given the fact there’s no “hatch”, but a lid that’s bolted on from the outside only, doing a DSRV rescue mission wouldn’t work.    They’re most likely going to need a cable lift up to the surface.   
 

But my guess is structural failure of some sort and this is all moot.   

3 hours ago, Minmus Taster said:

I do not believe there was any sonar equipment in the area until the USCG was called in several hours later. If there was a sound it was missed, maybe it was picked up by a more distant sensor but it's a remote area.

The SOSUS Lines would have surely heard something if it was catastrophic.   Whether or not the USN makes that info publicly available is another story.   

[magnemoe]

12 hours ago, TheSaint said:

There's three possibilities I can think of here:

1. They experienced a catastrophic loss of electrical power. In this case, the sub is designed to fail safe and bob to the surface. This is why the Coast Guard is doing a surface search with air and sea assets, they're looking for the sub bobbing around on the surface dead in the water.

2. They got tangled in the wreckage and were unable to surface. This is unlikely, because they would probably still have power and be pinging and communicating. But it's possible they got trapped somewhere that is blocking their communications. If this is the case, the only folks that can realistically get to them is another deep diving submersible. Ocean Gate only operates the one. There aren't that many other ones. And you can't airlift one to the Titanic site, you have to drive it there on a boat. They only have a couple days of air left at this point. So this scenario will almost assuredly end unhappily.

3. They had a catastrophic flooding accident. If that happened, this isn't a rescue op, this is a recovery op.

But, to get to the point, there isn't anything that the USN can do for any of those three scenarios that isn't already being handled by the Coast Guard. The USN doesn't have anything that dives that deep. The current USN DSRV only goes down to 2,000 feet. Sonar isn't going to tell you anything. What else are they going to do, besides stand around and wave the flag?

Agree, but think 2 is unlikely, as they would had to be trapped pretty much at once. now they could have hit the bottom hard and get damaged so it can not surface or communicate. If so its very bad but not as bad as getting tangled in the wretch.
Now if on the surface the 96 hour limit should not apply, the sub is small and has an low free board and radar cross section so its not trivial to find. 

[Minmus Taster]

They have 2 to 3 days of air left. If their on the bottom then time is almost up to save them even if they somehow have a way to pull them out.

[Minmus Taster]

We now know the likely identities of two more customers. Pakistani businessmen Shahzada Dakhood and his son. Yikes, this is an ugly story so far. I still hope for a safe return but we need to prepare for the worst.l now.