KSP2 EA Grand Discussion Thread.

[Stephensan]

9 minutes ago, Alexoff said:

Does anyone remember this video? Just a day before release.

8:20 - ... we will discover things that need to be adressed more agressively and there should be updates now on the weeks not months time scale traffic...

9:35 - we have succeeded gloriously in overhauling the first time user experience and in making the interface smoother, more interactable, more communicative to the player...

19:55 -... .... .... <died from cringe>

• if they make it 2.5 weeks, it "isn't" really lying... then again, that isn't working aswell due to finding major bug issues last second and delaying it... just like anything else recently.
   
• they probably did............. for the entire experience once the game is out of the 0.X mode it is better but that is still like counting your chickens before the eggs hatch.
  A. not really then again, there is some pretty (bluntly) stupid things i dislike about the UI experience that hinders everyone... Things like Part Manager and the part builder not being able to be hidden while taking like 20-30 % of your useable screen on the left side.
  B. The UI is, decent, but the major issue is if you have low frame rates (as most of us deal with) things that are suppose to be a visual aid saying "you are speed up/ you are climbing" the time frames between them doesn't make a smooth coherent translation of showing anything visual... i would say that it could  work once we are having 60+ fps, but anything lower the UI that they really care about starts to break apart..

 

its really once again stretching the overall boundaries of the truth for the first one and the second one just a simple, game needs to get done before the answer is correct.

 

Edited August 26, 2023 by Stephensan
i just send before i proof read.

[Alexoff]

59 minutes ago, Stephensan said:

if they make it 2.5 weeks, it "isn't" really lying...

It's not even about individual patches, but about fixing annoying bugs after discovery. Broken saves, bouncy rockets, kraken attacks - all this has not been fixed in half a year.

1 hour ago, Stephensan said:

they probably did

It is strange that almost no one expressed enthusiasm about this

[Vl3d]

2 hours ago, Periple said:

If they hadn’t over-hyped it, people wouldn’t be disappointed in it. They are, therefore they did.

People are disappointed because of the bugs and the ugly terrain. Other than that, it's a great base game. I don't get why people are so negative.

[PDCWolf]

10 minutes ago, Vl3d said:

People are disappointed because of the bugs and the ugly terrain.

It's much more than that. Take a tour of anywhere that isn't the forums, or much less the Discord, and you'll have a good idea of what the public opinion is.

[Alexoff]

15 minutes ago, Vl3d said:

Other than that, it's a great base game.

Other than that, it's just remaster of good old game without a lot of good old features.

[RocketRockington]

2 hours ago, PDCWolf said:

It's much more than that. Take a tour of anywhere that isn't the forums, or much less the Discord, and you'll have a good idea of what the public opinion is.

The reddit has basically stopped talking about it lately.  

I think one thing people have forgotten is that the opposite of love often isn't hate - it's indifference.  Rekindling interest when trust is so low in the PR for KSP2 is going to be an uphill climb.  

[Alexoff]

17 minutes ago, RocketRockington said:

The reddit has basically stopped talking about it lately.

KSP2 reddit is practically dead compared to KSP1.

[PDCWolf]

47 minutes ago, Alexoff said:

KSP2 reddit is practically dead compared to KSP1.

1 hour ago, RocketRockington said:

The reddit has basically stopped talking about it lately.  

I think one thing people have forgotten is that the opposite of love often isn't hate - it's indifference.  Rekindling interest when trust is so low in the PR for KSP2 is going to be an uphill climb.  

The 2 "unofficial" subreddits all were born of trying to allow only positive content, and they're all promptly dead. The one true subreddit, r/kerbalspaceprogram has gotten sick of the game to the point discussion of it is chased away, because every thread becomes work for the mods, with every user throwing snipes or outright insults at the devs/pub/cm for what is perceived to be continuous borderline lying. Add to that the recent debacle where Dakota insulted Reddit and yeah, they're not gonna be happy to see him.

In 4chan, the KSP general has been dead for at least 4 years, since SQUAD/Star Theory failed to keep up their promises regarding KSP1. There was one or two generals about KSP2 but they were so dead nobody even bothers anymore.

Steam... yeah, I'd say avoid that, as it's even somehow worse than reddit.

The only places where you can read any sort of clearly, majoritarian positive outlook on KSP2 is the Discord and maybe Twitter depending on what is posted. Even this same forum has had a clear degradation in positivity as belief is stretched thin with every single thing they do wrong or fail to do.

 

[TwoCalories]

On 8/25/2023 at 11:53 AM, Vl3d said:

Spoiler

...kraken at the bottom of the sea was confirmed.

(search for the temple if you want to be spoiled)

Spoiler

The what...?

 

[Periple]

7 hours ago, Vl3d said:

People are disappointed because of the bugs and the ugly terrain. Other than that, it's a great base game. I don't get why people are so negative.

People are disappointed because they were led to expect a game with a limited subset of features (sandbox mode, effectively) but a high level of polish and performance. We were also led to expect relatively rapid progress with the roadmap features.

What we got was, effectively, an alpha.

I agree that there’s a great game there waiting to get out, and as alphas go it’s perfectly fine. For all we know they’re making great progress internally on all fronts, but visible progress (as released updates) has also been very slow.

I did not expect it to take six months to fix the highest-impact bugs, and I did expect them to have hit the science milestone by now, even with multiplayer slowing everything down. 

They’ve clearly put a lot of effort into process (personnel changes, stuff like the public bug tracker) and these take a while to bite, but if there isn’t a marked improvement in velocity soon then I too shall start to be worried.

I have a fairly strong hunch about what may have gone wrong and why it’s so hard to fix. Sometimes a bad hire into a key position early in the project gets everything on the wrong track and that can be really difficult and painful to correct.

[Alexoff]

7 hours ago, PDCWolf said:

The only places where you can read any sort of clearly, majoritarian positive outlook on KSP2 is the Discord and maybe Twitter depending on what is posted. Even this same forum has had a clear degradation in positivity as belief is stretched thin with every single thing they do wrong or fail to do.

Any discussion of KSP2 will slide into repetition of the same thing, since the game has not changed gameplay in half a year, and it differs little from KSP1 ten years ago. There are two types of fans left - some believe that the developers are doing a miracle somewhere behind closed doors, while others do not believe those who have previously deceived. And there is nothing more to discuss. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[cocoscacao]

54 minutes ago, Alexoff said:

Any discussion of KSP2 will slide into repetition of the same thing

Not necessarily. Some of us are interested what roadmap updates may bring.

Edited August 27, 2023 by cocoscacao

[RocketRockington]

30 minutes ago, cocoscacao said:

Not necessarily. Some of us are interested what roadmap updates may bring.

When was the last time there was a thread that actively discussed science, or anything else?  The only really active thread I saw was the money vs resources thread, and even that seemed to be pages of repetitive counter-arguing.

[Vl3d]

6 minutes ago, RocketRockington said:

When was the last time there was a thread that actively discussed science, or anything else?  The only really active thread I saw was the money vs resources thread, and even that seemed to be pages of repetitive counter-arguing.

It's all been discussed through KSP1 mods, in the KSP2 pre-launch forum and in the suggestions and wishes section. The devs know what players want. Until they deliver *something*, there's no reason to rehash old arguments.

Clearly, if science will be the same click-fest system like in KSP1 and they don't draw inspiration from Kerbalism Science and a lot of cool suggestions we've had, I'm going to be upset.

[cocoscacao]

27 minutes ago, RocketRockington said:

When was the last time there was a thread

There are a few threads and some discussions popping up in general discussions as well. If you feel like having something to say/discuss, feel free to open one. Science has been very vaguely descripted, and I am hoping for something mode substantial soon. 

[Dakitess]

I remember reading "That's it, we've killed the Kraken", soooo proudly announced everywhere short before the release.

Like...

How can you be blind enough to announce something that impacting, that important, like a victory when 2 weeks after the game is total mess full of bugs and Kraken lying everywhere possible ?

Really, I don't get it, how is it even possible, did they really think back at that time that Kraken was a thing of the past based on QA ? Did they really play their game without encountering bugs ? Maybe they had some but expected to be some easy-to-fix bugs that would be addressed in the X weeks before the launch ? Really, really, I don't get it. There is nothing more contrasted that this announcement and the facts we got and I can't help mylseft understanding how it can be possible. And, obviously, it's among so many others things.

Edited August 27, 2023 by Dakitess

[The Aziz]

Quote please. Because I know exactly where this is going to go

[Alexoff]

2 hours ago, cocoscacao said:

Not necessarily. Some of us are interested what roadmap updates may bring.

The features from the roadmap are too blurry, we are discussing our fantasies rather than the real game.

[RocketRockington]

14 minutes ago, Alexoff said:

The features from the roadmap are too blurry, we are discussing our fantasies rather than the real game.

100% agree.

[Pthigrivi]

4 hours ago, RocketRockington said:

When was the last time there was a thread that actively discussed science, or anything else?  The only really active thread I saw was the money vs resources thread, and even that seemed to be pages of repetitive counter-arguing.

Thats mostly because every thread including this one becomes a repository for the same spammed argument over and over again. At least the resources thread was about something substantive. Honestly I think a lot of interesting ideas came out of it about how players interact with in game currencies and how gameplay loops work. I'll probably resurrect or start another science thread soon since there was a bit of new information about it in the AMA. 

[PDCWolf]

5 hours ago, The Aziz said:

Quote please. Because I know exactly where this is going to go

Feature series EP5.

"We want your vessels to perform roughly how you'd expect based on your experiences from KSP1" "Under the hood we're making numerous improvements to that experience to make it more performant, more robust, and allow for the scale and scope of vessels that we have here, and allow them to be built without the Kraken getting you. We're killing the kraken- that's a hell of a claim to make, you can edit it out... Our ultimate goal is to slay the kraken [...]"

I'm falling more and more in love with how the only arguments are becoming straight up semantics. The game, its advertising, marketing, and communications about it have become so undefendable that we're looking at verb tenses, expressions made when the thing was said, and in some cases straight up hoping people don't remember what was said at all OR, even better, saying it's all water under the bridge. It's such an experience, honestly.

 

 

Edited August 27, 2023 by PDCWolf

[The Aziz]

Just as I thought. Tom knew how much of a claim it would be and corrected himself. So the real quote is "Our ultimate goal is to slay the kraken".  Goal that hasn't been reached yet just like the game hasn't been finished yet.

[Alexoff]

1 minute ago, The Aziz said:

Tom knew how much of a claim it would be and corrected himself. So the real quote is "Our ultimate goal is to slay the kraken".  Goal that hasn't been reached yet just like the game hasn't been finished yet.

It is a pity that on February 23, 2023, Tom did not tell us that this goal was not even close to being achieved.

[moeggz]

From the announcement thread in 2019

Q: What type of physics can players expect? Advanced, realistic, etc?

A: Realistic vehicle physics and orbital mechanics continue to be at the center of the Kerbal experience. We've focused on optimizing vehicle physics  to allow for the smooth simulation of larger structures on a wider variety of PCs. 
 

Had EA just been that I think there wouldn’t be so much pushback. Nearly 4 years after that answer and that is still not the case.

[PDCWolf]

Just now, moeggz said:

From the announcement thread in 2019

 

Q: What type of physics can players expect? Advanced, realistic, etc?

A: Realistic vehicle physics and orbital mechanics continue to be at the center of the Kerbal experience. We've focused on optimizing vehicle physics  to allow for the smooth simulation of larger structures on a wider variety of PCs. 
 

Had EA just been that I think there wouldn’t be so much pushback. Nearly 4 years after that answer and that is still not the case.

I mean we've gone from being the most welcoming community ever here and on Reddit to thAt's nOt thE tExtUAL qUOtE when trying to deflect yet another criticism. We're way past ignoring the literal lie that the game was ready to release as a full product. A clear lie that they repeated 3 times.

Like there's not even an argument anymore, the only thing is "wahh spam argument", when it's always the same types inciting the reply by trying to pass misinformation or their own hopes and dreams as reality.

Edited August 27, 2023 by PDCWolf