So now we're being gaslit? T2 Boss Spoke Out

[Stevie_D]

https://www.eurogamer.net/take-two-boss-claims-publisher-hasnt-shut-down-olliolli-and-kerbal-space-program-2-studios

 

TLDR version -
Strauss Zelnick, the boss of Take 2, when asked, said "We didn't shutter those studios." (meaning Intercept and Roll7)
"And we are always looking at our release schedule across all of our studios to make sure that it makes sense. So we are being very judicious because we are in the middle of a cost reduction program that we've already concluded and are now fully rolling out. We've announced that we're saving $165m in existing and future costs, but we haven't shuttered anything."

"In the 8-K filing that we put out we talked about the cost reduction plan is approximately 5 percent reduction in headcount worldwide, but we did not give a label-by-label breakdown of what that looks like."

Following IGN's third attempt to determine if the studios still existed, the PR responded, "We have not provided any additional colour beyond what I just said."

---------------------------

Even the eurogamer journalist thought this statement beggared belief, since it goes contrary to the confirmed and physical facts we know of 70 people having lost their jobs and the reason given to the state was filed as "closure" of the office. That is way, way higher than 5%. My guess is that, being the boss of Take 2, he doesn't even know nor care much about the test projects at Private Division, and the only crib-note his PR gave him for Intercept and Roll7 was "not closed, just reduced" and failed to tell him by how much.

Looks like that is the best we're going to get for now. Hope I'm wrong but meh...

 

 

[SmokerCraft]

70 employees is way, way higher than 5% of T2 workforce?

 

Uh, no?

[Brofessional]

T2 employs over 10,000 people worldwide, 70 people isn't even 1%. 

[Lisias]

1 minute ago, Brofessional said:

T2 employs over 10,000 people worldwide,

Before or after the huge layoffs happening on the whole industry in the last 6 months?

[Tony Tony Chopper]

24 minutes ago, Lisias said:

Before or after the huge layoffs happening on the whole industry in the last 6 months?

11'580 minus 5% makes 11001. Still far over 10'000.

[GGG-GoodGuyGreg]

What do you mean “now”?

it’s been going on for more than a year now. 

[VlonaldKerman]

2 hours ago, Stevie_D said:

Even the eurogamer journalist thought this statement beggared belief, since it goes contrary to the confirmed and physical facts we know of 70 people having lost their jobs and the reason given to the state was filed as "closure" of the office. That is way, way higher than 5%.

5% is in regards to all T2 employees, not just PD staff. However, I still find his statements puzzling- how can a studio not be shuttered, if its offices are closed, and 70 people were fired, when there were only 70 people working in it?

Technically he hasn't said anything wrong, since they are going to "support" KSP 2. But all this needs to be true is one more update coming out.

I wouldn't pay attention to curated corporate speak. The numbers don't lie. 70/70 is a pretty big fraction. I dare say it is even close to 100%. Even if it's not 100%, but it's more like 90, any economist will tell you that the limit of X as X approaches 90 is 100, for large values of 90.

[krbvax]

Technically, if you yank all the employees out of your store but leave it open for random passersby to loot, it's not "shuttered"? I guess?

[Fizzlebop Smith]

It's a technicality. The title will be folded into PD and if anyone from the previous title still works on it in any capacity .. then technically there is not hand off.. no shuttering. Even if it's only exists in cyberspace like an NFT

[Brofessional]

2 hours ago, krbvax said:

Technically, if you yank all the employees out of your store but leave it open for random passersby to loot, it's not "shuttered"? I guess?

Intercept as a company could still be alive even if the physical office closes. It could change locations and/or undergo major restructuring and continue working on KSP2.  I'm not getting my hopes up, but until we get some official news we just don't know. Maybe when the layoffs go into effect in June/July we'll finally hear something concrete.

[Infinite Aerospace]

19 minutes ago, Brofessional said:

Intercept as a company could still be alive even if the physical office closes. It could change locations and/or undergo major restructuring and continue working on KSP2.  I'm not getting my hopes up, but until we get some official news we just don't know. Maybe when the layoffs go into effect in June/July we'll finally hear something concrete.

This is just about the most sensible comment here. 

[Superluminaut]

These kind of shenanigans signal that a company has been infested with corrupt individuals. If you're invested, I would sell before it dies. Unless you're banking on a too big to fail bailout.

[Ker Ball One]

4 hours ago, Brofessional said:

Intercept as a company could still be alive even if the physical office closes. It could change locations and/or undergo major restructuring and continue working on KSP2.  I'm not getting my hopes up, but until we get some official news we just don't know. Maybe when the layoffs go into effect in June/July we'll finally hear something concrete.

No, because the WARN order doesn't track the office.  They track the jobs.  And the reason for the layoffs were given. They aren't moving the entire office out of state.  It's closed.  They're all laid off.  Don't be a copium addict.

[K^2]

I suspect they can't just shut down Intercept for legal reasons. But even then, I would expect indication that they are reducing emphasis on it, or w/e. The statements as made are definitely not a good tone.

[Canopus]

long time not on the Forums, have I missed something?

[Vexillar]

23 minutes ago, Canopus said:

have I missed something?

Nothing much... you in time warp, Kerbin suddenly fell into Kerbol and was annihilated, along with all inhabitants and facilities. But apart from that, the game is still just the same... keep playing.

[VlonaldKerman]

16 hours ago, krbvax said:

Technically, if you yank all the employees out of your store but leave it open for random passersby to loot, it's not "shuttered"? I guess?

It’s more like you fired all of your employees and sold the building your store is in, but you might let your little brother sell lemonade next summer under the name of your store.

[Fizzlebop Smith]

43 minutes ago, VlonaldKerman said:

It’s more like you fired all of your employees and sold the building your store is in, but you might let your little brother sell lemonade next summer under the name of your store.

I really like this simplification. It illustrates the situation with great clarity.

[PDCWolf]

1 hour ago, VlonaldKerman said:

It’s more like you fired all of your employees and sold the building your store is in, but you might let your little brother sell lemonade next summer under the name of your store.

The owner of RadioShack still owns the brand, even if there's not a single store or employee. Then last year someone bought the RadioShack brand and opened stores in central and south america.

We'd be very lucky if we get the later instead of just stopping at the former.

[Vanamonde]

9 hours ago, Canopus said:

long time not on the Forums, have I missed something?

There have been layoffs at the companies involved in making KSP2. No one knows specifically what this means for the game but people are worried. 

[Ker Ball One]

1 hour ago, Vanamonde said:

There have been layoffs at the companies involved in making KSP2. No one knows specifically what this means for the game but people are worried. 

There's a bit more.

The layoffs are near 100% of the company, and all the devs that were on these form forums have stopped all communications.

If this were a crypto company I'd be more than just worried. 

[PDCWolf]

2 hours ago, Ker Ball One said:

There's a bit more.

The layoffs are near 100% of the company, and all the devs that were on these form forums have stopped all communications.

If this were a crypto company I'd be more than just worried. 

And T2 mentioned they were incurring about $160 million dollars in title cancellations, but have not mentioned which projects. We also know the Intercept office in Seattle was closed thanks to the WARN notice and posterior confirmations.

That's the facts.

If you wanna worry, just remember that 2k Marin has remained "opened" for 11 years after all its members got fired, and never rehired anyone, and never made a new game. T2 will never say they closed or cancelled anything.

EDIT: SUGGESTED READING - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2K_Marin

Edited May 18 by PDCWolf

[Codraroll]

23 hours ago, VlonaldKerman said:

5% is in regards to all T2 employees, not just PD staff. However, I still find his statements puzzling- how can a studio not be shuttered, if its offices are closed, and 70 people were fired, when there were only 70 people working in it?

Technically he hasn't said anything wrong, since they are going to "support" KSP 2. But all this needs to be true is one more update coming out.

My guess is that Private Division still holds the rights to the KSP franchise, and it is through them that KSP sales money makes its way to the T2 coffers.

Continuing to "support" the game might just mean that they retain the brand rights under Private Division, and use the set-up already established by them to sell the game through Steam. That T2 lets Private Division exist as a "shell company" whose only purpose is the logistical aspects of owning and selling the Kerbal Space Program games. That they keep the same name and logo on the legal documents so they don't have to change anything in that respect. And likewise, suing in the name of Private Division if somebody tries to create and market a "Kerbal Spice Program".

That way, the studio isn't technically closed, it just continues to exist purely for managing the intellectual property.

[K^2]

6 hours ago, Codraroll said:

My guess is that Private Division still holds the rights to the KSP franchise, and it is through them that KSP sales money makes its way to the T2 coffers.

The PD's not being closed either way. Private Division, while taking a significant chunk of the overall T2 layoffs, is still very much an operating entity with live projects and upcoming releases. So they can continue selling KSP2 Early Access and generating revenue this way. (Ethics aside, we're talking purely de jure here.)

So the reasons for keeping Intercept open are more interesting. Just off the top of my head, there are a few possibilities.

1. Intercept is involved in a legal dispute of some sort (or there is a risk of it) so it needs to be kept around as a legal entity for legal reasons. (Sounds plausible, but I think we'd have heard something by now...)
2. Under WARN act, the Intercept team is still formally employed, so it makes sense to keep them part of Intercept rather than transferring them to PD directly. (Definitely part of it, but would that stop announcing upcoming closure in June? MS did that with Arkane Austin...)
3. Some number of Intercept employees are remaining as a skeleton team continuing support of KSP2, primarily for bug fixes, etc, and to keep the knowledge intact. (In which case, Intercept not closing is the truth, but it's down to maybe 5-10 people?)
4. Intercept is being kept around as an entity because PD expects to expand it into a full studio again, and it's easier to do this rather than spin up an entirely new studio. (But then again, why not make that public?)

That's just some of the options that bubbled up from the past couple of days, but it could also be some combination or none of the above. Either way, the denial that studio is closed doesn't provide us with much information. A lot of options are still on the table, and I guess we'll just have to wait until some of the former Intercept employees are free to speak about their situation. I still don't expect us to get a full picture from that, but we might at least get a better count on whether this really was absolutely everyone, or just most of the studio.

[PDCWolf]

2 hours ago, K^2 said:

The PD's not being closed either way. Private Division, while taking a significant chunk of the overall T2 layoffs, is still very much an operating entity with live projects and upcoming releases. So they can continue selling KSP2 Early Access and generating revenue this way. (Ethics aside, we're talking purely de jure here.)

So the reasons for keeping Intercept open are more interesting. Just off the top of my head, there are a few possibilities.

1. Intercept is involved in a legal dispute of some sort (or there is a risk of it) so it needs to be kept around as a legal entity for legal reasons. (Sounds plausible, but I think we'd have heard something by now...)
2. Under WARN act, the Intercept team is still formally employed, so it makes sense to keep them part of Intercept rather than transferring them to PD directly. (Definitely part of it, but would that stop announcing upcoming closure in June? MS did that with Arkane Austin...)
3. Some number of Intercept employees are remaining as a skeleton team continuing support of KSP2, primarily for bug fixes, etc, and to keep the knowledge intact. (In which case, Intercept not closing is the truth, but it's down to maybe 5-10 people?)
4. Intercept is being kept around as an entity because PD expects to expand it into a full studio again, and it's easier to do this rather than spin up an entirely new studio. (But then again, why not make that public?)

That's just some of the options that bubbled up from the past couple of days, but it could also be some combination or none of the above. Either way, the denial that studio is closed doesn't provide us with much information. A lot of options are still on the table, and I guess we'll just have to wait until some of the former Intercept employees are free to speak about their situation. I still don't expect us to get a full picture from that, but we might at least get a better count on whether this really was absolutely everyone, or just most of the studio.

I still sustain we should be wary of what T2 has actually done to "everyone fired but not closed" studios in the past, as even if speculation, it's much less wild to base ourselves on what we know has happened before:

1. Fire all the people.
2. Keep the studio "Open".
3. Do literally nothing with it.

Why would they act this way? No idea. Maybe publicly saying they're actually closing studios would tank their stock further, or they keep the entities around to not deal with IP transfers, or whatever. But we do know what they do when they "Hit a studio with massive layoffs", "Shift employees to other studios"... and they've gone so far as to say "Don't worry, that studio will make games again" only to give the IP to some other studio of theirs a decade after the fact.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2K_Marin