Firespitter propeller plane and helicopter parts v7.1 (May 5th) for KSP 1.0

[StevieC]

5 hours ago, RoverDude said:

The tan patch on the secondary green one is by design (see Sopwith Camel color schemes).

Not all of the oblong bits have been finished, so likely some seam issues there.  The red one should not have tan bits tho.  And those grid lines are scratches in the cloth

Ahh, fair enough. You may not have seen my other post but I asked whether Bitesized Industries could please be made browsable in the "browse by manufacturer" editor tab?

[Dr. Jet]

Nice to see that this nice mod is getting alive again. 

Some bugs:

• FSbomberWing - missing collider.
• FSbomberCockpit - mesh mismatching with other bomber parts (and other 2.5m parts).
• FSbiPlaneWingCenter - collider trouble (wings cannot be properly attached with angle snapper on)
• There are still glitchy FSWheel{}s and weird FSengine{}s around. Hope they will be gone soon.

Some suggestions:

• Replacing FSengine{} with ModuleEngines{} is very nice!  ModuleEnginesFX{} may be even nicer as it has more tweaks. But anyway don't forget please to set "resourceFlowMode = STAGE_STACK_FLOW_BALANCE" for LF(kerosene) propellant. It is needed for CoM balance and vital for drop tanks to work properly.
• Add air intake to FSoblongNose (it looks like actual piston engine) for sake of FSnoseEngine. Those are designed to work in pair but neither one has an air intake.
• FSoblongNoseLong, FSoblongTail and FSoblongFuselageHalf should possibly have FSFuelSwitch{} config like FSoblongMultiTank.
• FSplanePropellerSpinner{} (at least) should be included in stock KSP (though I already mentioned that before).

[RoverDude]

Are these logged as github issues?  That will be the best way to sort them

[amankd]

1 hour ago, Dr. Jet said:

Nice to see that this nice mod is getting alive again. 

Some bugs:

• FSbomberWing - missing collider.
• FSbomberCockpit - mesh mismatching with other bomber parts (and other 2.5m parts).
• FSbiPlaneWingCenter - collider trouble (wings cannot be properly attached with angle snapper on)
• There are still glitchy FSWheel{}s and weird FSengine{}s around. Hope they will be gone soon.

Some suggestions:

• Replacing FSengine{} with ModuleEngines{} is very nice!  ModuleEnginesFX{} may be even nicer as it has more tweaks. But anyway don't forget please to set "resourceFlowMode = STAGE_STACK_FLOW_BALANCE" for LF(kerosene) propellant. It is needed for CoM balance and vital for drop tanks to work properly.
• Add air intake to FSoblongNose (it looks like actual piston engine) for sake of FSnoseEngine. Those are designed to work in pair but neither one has an air intake.
• FSoblongNoseLong, FSoblongTail and FSoblongFuselageHalf should possibly have FSFuelSwitch{} config like FSoblongMultiTank.
• FSplanePropellerSpinner{} (at least) should be included in stock KSP (though I already mentioned that before).

thabks for the info, post exams ill get to it, this is still tecnically a 1.0.5 mod so its lucky it aint worse, 

 

55 minutes ago, RoverDude said:

Are these logged as github issues?  That will be the best way to sort them

dont know how to use git hub really but ill look into it

[aluc24]

Could somebody please tell me if there is any fix to the right-channel audio issue?

[Christoph Lipka]

What's up with the biplane tail skid? It is supposed to be steerable, right?

I can't seem to get that to work (FS 7.2.4, KSP 1.1.2) -- the thing won't budge an inch, making taxiing virtually impossible.

[123nick]

hey this is compatible with 1.1.2, yes? which download should i use? which link, specifically?

[RoverDude]

On 5/20/2016 at 1:42 PM, Christoph Lipka said:

What's up with the biplane tail skid? It is supposed to be steerable, right?

I can't seem to get that to work (FS 7.2.4, KSP 1.1.2) -- the thing won't budge an inch, making taxiing virtually impossible.

Tail draggers are not steerable, and it's not a wheel.  Works fine for me with the biplane so not sure why you're having an issue.

1 hour ago, 123nick said:

hey this is compatible with 1.1.2, yes? which download should i use? which link, specifically?

Same github link on OP - latest release is 1.1.2 compatible, but a LOT of parts need to be reworked.

[123nick]

45 minutes ago, RoverDude said:

Tail draggers are not steerable, and it's not a wheel.  Works fine for me with the biplane so not sure why you're having an issue.

Same github link on OP - latest release is 1.1.2 compatible, but a LOT of parts need to be reworked.

ahh ok, i see. it didnt say so in the topic so i wasnt sure, but thanks.

[Christoph Lipka]

33 minutes ago, RoverDude said:

Tail draggers are not steerable, and it's not a wheel.  Works fine for me with the biplane so not sure why you're having an issue.

From the part description (emphasis added): "You can actually steer with this thing on the tail of your plane", and: "use some of these in a non steering setup on your wing tips for added impact protection". This implies that there should be some mode switch on the part that I can't seem to access in the hangar.

The tail skid's ability to steer a plane is also clearly demonstrated at 2:32 in the "Firespitter v6.0 - Biplanes!" video featured prominently in the first post on this thread.

To my knowledge, early skid-equipped taildraggers actually had the skid firmly attached to the rudder (which doesn't seem to work with the Firespitter biplane rudder and skid); at any rate, Wikipedia claims that "steerable tailskids" were quite common in the biplane era, and explicitly mentions the famous Sopwith Camel in this context, which after all seems to have been the primary inspiration for the Firespitter biplane parts.

Also, how on earth could you possibly taxi a taildragger with a fixed skid? At those low speeds and with the high friction from the tail skid, there is no way you'll be able to use the rudder for effective steering. And from my experience, once you get the plane going fast enough to lift the skid off the ground, any rudder input will cause the plane to yaw violently (which isn't too surprising, given that the center of mass is behind the main gear, and the main gear will have some friction). So there's an effective way to make 120 degree turns, give or take 90 degrees, but nothing I'd call "controlled".

At any rate -- something is wrong with the tail skid: Either the advertisment, or the implementation, or the way I'm using it. And I'd really like to know which of these is the case.

[Alshain]

1 hour ago, Christoph Lipka said:

Also, how on earth could you possibly taxi a taildragger with a fixed skid? At those low speeds and with the high friction from the tail skid, there is no way you'll be able to use the rudder for effective steering.

 

Some taildraggers can steer from the rear wheel or skid, but some taildraggers in the biplane era applied braking to one of the two front wheels to force a turn.  KSP doesn't make that easy but it can be done with action groups, you have to strip the symmetry off the wheels first though.  Still many planes had the wheel or skid attached to the rudder.  So neither way is wrong, but it did appear from the video Snjo had intended it to be a steerable skid.

Edited May 21, 2016 by Alshain

[Christoph Lipka]

Just now, Alshain said:

Some taildraggers can steer from the rear wheel, but taildraggers in the biplane era applied braking to one of the two front wheels to force a turn.  KSP doesn't make that easy but it can be done with action groups.

I refer once again to Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conventional_landing_gear#History, emphasis added):

Quote

Before aircraft commonly used tailwheels, many aircraft (like a number of First World War Sopwith aircraft, such as the Camel fighter) were equipped with steerable tailskids, which operate similar to a tailwheel. When the pilot pressed the right rudder pedal — or the right footrest of a "rudder bar" in World War I — the skid pivoted to the right, creating more drag on that side of the plane and causing it to turn to the right. While less effective than a steerable wheel, it did give the pilot some control of the direction the craft was moving while taxiing or beginning the takeoff run, before there was enough airflow over the rudder for it to become effective.

While I am well aware that Wikipedia may not be an authoritative source, it is some source. If you have a more reliable one claiming that steerable skids in general were non-existent, untypical or even rare, or that the Sopwith Camel's tail skid in particular wasn't steerable after all, feel free to let us know.

(And yes, asymmetric braking was used in some taildraggers, but if I understand Wikipedia right, it was typically combined with a free turning tail wheel. Besides, as you say, using it in KSP it isn't easy, and it requires action groups -- which makes it an absolute no-go in the earlier phase of career mode.)

[RoverDude]

For what it's worth, i've had no issue with the biplane and skid in early career, despite no turning of said skid.  Bear in mind 1.1 absolutely broke a ton of parts, hence the repeated warning that it's an ongoing effort.

[Snjo]

If it still uses FSwheel, the tail skid is secretly a wheel, but with some braking torque always applied (if the throttle is off). It had to use FSwheel since it has no animation, no suspension, and is always deployed. That wasn't an option in the stock wheel code when I made it.

It also used the wheel steering module to make you able to turn with it.

How's it set up now @RoverDude?

(I assume it was disabled due to explodey issues)

Edited May 22, 2016 by Snjo

[RoverDude]

Disabled due to explodey issues   It's in an interim state until I can convert some of the FS Wheel/Steering bits to not blow up with the new wheel code (i.e. we can no longer do anything that directly moves/changes transforms or horrible things happen).

[War Eagle 1]

On April 30, 2016 at 10:56 AM, RoverDude said:

Ok - we have a 1.1.2 compatible version up.  Enjoy.

Yes, I have to redo a ton of parts   This is mostly for the core plugin compatibility.

Where do i find it?

 

[RoverDude]

Same link at top of OP   Latest release

[War Eagle 1]

1 hour ago, RoverDude said:

Same link at top of OP   Latest release

Thank you 
Loveing it so far except for this

How do i get rid of it?

[colmo]

8 hours ago, War Eagle 1 said:

Thank you 
Loveing it so far except for this

<FS Input Visualiser>

How do i get rid of it?

 

In the CFG of the main rotor, I found this:

// input visualizer for video demos. Disable for Release
MODULE
{
	name = FSinputVisualizer
}

I presume deleting it will do the trick, though perhaps @RoverDude could do the honours as per Snjo's comment!

[theonegalen]

Hello, lots of NRE spam slowing down my flight. Log: https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B6ZYgATQfNhBdXVSbXZ0RURFalU

[chimichanga2004]

can you make the propelers work in different atmospheres on different plannets? jet engines have to suck in air while propelers just push the atmosphere and don't need oxygen to run.

[Red Iron Crown]

8 minutes ago, chimichanga2004 said:

can you make the propelers work in different atmospheres on different plannets? jet engines have to suck in air while propelers just push the atmosphere and don't need oxygen to run.

As in real life, the propellers are powered by internal combustion engines and need oxygen to work.

[kcs123]

You can use electric propeler engine from KAX mod. Need to balance craft carefully, though, bateries and solar panels are heavy while engine don't provide too much thrust. But it is possible to create some decent lightweight craft with it for all those science on different biomes, waiting to be collected.

[Aperture Science Employee]

Aren't the textures outdated for the new aircraft styles?

[Sherrif]

Is it a known issue of the Firespitter landing gears explosively launching you into the air, or does this sound like a mod incompatibility?