[1.4.X] Taerobee - Stockalike X-1 and More [27/01/2017]

[CobaltWolf]

What could this be? Could it be.... an upcoming Taerobee update? D:

Since @Jso asked for a small moratorium on BDB updates so that he and our playtesters can stabilize the balance of the mod again, I decided to take a look at @VenomousRequiem's old Sounding Rocket models, and then decided to PM @Beale. Since he needs a finished sounding rocket, and I need to get these finished somewhere... well, why not? Seen above and below are a smattering of the parts that we're adding - there are a couple missing (Namely, science packages) but this should give you an overall idea of the scope. The parts will be 0.3125m in diameter, as opposed to 0.125m. It's sort of an unfortunate compromise, since the original 0.125m Taerobee was found to be a bit too small for the VAB editor as well as leading to some strange physics stuff IIRC. Hopefully the update will also include a balance and bugfix pass as well; expect some nerfs on the Bumper and the X1. Please note that I don't really plan on adding much more than this - no X-15 (wait for Downrange Experimentals), no... I don't ever know what else you people would ask for. Anyways, couple questions:

1) Would you prefer to have to recover the science experiments via parachute, or simply transmit the experiments back?

2) What sort of science payloads would you like to see? I'm thinking just a simple module with the stock thermometer and barometer experiments. While @RoverDude's Sound Rockets are awesome, the experiment packages are a little OP. This is meant to be the same sort of idea - a fun little way to start your career - but I don't want to add too much extra science to the game. Letting players snatch the atmospheric science around the KSC early on seems like a good compromise.

[adsii1970]

3 minutes ago, CobaltWolf said:

1) Would you prefer to have to recover the science experiments via parachute, or simply transmit the experiments back?

2) What sort of science payloads would you like to see? I'm thinking just a simple module with the stock thermometer and barometer experiments. While @RoverDude's Sound Rockets are awesome, the experiment packages are a little OP. This is meant to be the same sort of idea - a fun little way to start your career - but I don't want to add too much extra science to the game. Letting players snatch the atmospheric science around the KSC early on seems like a good compromise.

I know I am not named in this post, but to answer question number 1, why not have one set that comes back by parachute. Then have a second set that simply transmits the data back.

To the second question, why not temperature of the atmosphere, atmospheric pressure, atmospheric composition, and light refraction?

[CobaltWolf]

On 11/2/2016 at 8:30 PM, adsii1970 said:

I know I am not named in this post, but to answer question number 1, why not have one set that comes back by parachute. Then have a second set that simply transmits the data back.

To the second question, why not temperature of the atmosphere, atmospheric pressure, atmospheric composition, and light refraction?

I think it would be best not to overdo this. I really don't think that there is much room for something like a sounding rocket in the game, even with dedicated contracts. My goal would be, use the Taerobee to grab the temperature/barometer data from the skies around KSC (low+high atmo, I guess the shores and maybe the grassland?) and then replace the Tiny Tim (Little Leo? You can't stop me from naming it that now) with the Thumper/Bumper/V2, you might be able to launch it to the mountains west of the KSC. Deliberately trying to keep the scope smaller than my other projects...

Anyways, got some work done. These little parts have been very relaxing to do! They're a fair bit more complex than the little WAC parts that @Beale had made, so the texture sheet got bumped up from a 256 to a 512, but everything will fit there comfortable. Beale, let me know what you think I figured out how to get multiple animations on a part in Unity, so the science bay doors will open independently - the barometer will stay closed if only the thermometer is run and vice versa. fxModule indexing ftw! I tried to keep it a bit closer to your color palettes, so the white is darker than BDBs. I'm not sure on the orange, let me know what you think. The science parts steal bits from the stock textures, but they're on the Taerobee texture sheet and not referenced. The geometry is all new. I might have a beta ready tomorrow for testing purposes. The nose cone, control core, despin module, as well as the Little Leo + decoupler + larger fins are not textured. The Taerobee sustainer is mostly textured but needs some touching up; I want to do a separate version with the shroud, similar to the Thumper's engines. There are a couple other longer SRBs in the scene file that @VenomousRequiem gave me but I'm not sure what to do with them. Maybe create the larger SRB that some of the later Aerobees used, at a unique size? Let me know what you think - maybe that, and then use the smaller of the two as an optional 'sustainer' SRB.

 

 

Edited November 4, 2016 by CobaltWolf

[CobaltWolf]

Hey everyone! So I have something of an alpha - but its really closer to a cry for health. I have been having and issue, where the Taerobee nose assembly spins WILDLY end over end once you detach it from the sustainer tank. Does anyone know why this would happen? I've uploaded what I have in game so far to Github - just for testing, it's very very very very very very very rough right now.

https://github.com/Tantares/Taerobee

[NotAgain]

On ‎03‎/‎11‎/‎2016 at 0:24 AM, CobaltWolf said:

(wait for Downrange Experimentals),

What is this? Is it another brilliant Cobalt/Venemous/Beale mod?

[VenomousRequiem]

5 minutes ago, NotAgain said:

What is this? Is it another brilliant Cobalt/Venemous/Beale mod?

Well it'd be the first with that combination of people, but yes, sort of. Cobalt is adding some sounding rocket parts i modeled a while ago into Taerobee for Beale, and i'm guessing me, Cobalt, and John will start looking after Taerobee when Beale doesn't want to.

[NotAgain]

Just now, VenomousRequiem said:

Well it'd be the first with that combination of people, but yes, sort of. Cobalt is adding some sounding rocket parts i modeled a while ago into Taerobee for Beale, and i'm guessing me, Cobalt, and John will start looking after Taerobee when Beale doesn't want to.

Yay.

[CobaltWolf]

34 minutes ago, NotAgain said:

What is this? Is it another brilliant Cobalt/Venemous/Beale mod?

No, someone else's but I've been providing technical advice. Not saying any more until they're ready to make an announcement.

[legoclone09]

4 minutes ago, CobaltWolf said:

No, someone else's but I've been providing technical advice. Not saying any more until they're ready to make an announcement.

I'll try and model something if you want. I think I could learn UV unwrapping by myself as well, and attempt to make a texture.

[VenomousRequiem]

6 minutes ago, legoclone09 said:

I'll try and model something if you want. I think I could learn UV unwrapping by myself as well, and attempt to make a texture.

I think we're good for now. :^)

[legoclone09]

52 minutes ago, VenomousRequiem said:

I think we're good for now. :^)

OK

[Spike88]

On 11/6/2016 at 4:40 PM, CobaltWolf said:

No, someone else's but I've been providing technical advice. Not saying any more until they're ready to make an announcement.

Why you gotta tease.

[CobaltWolf]

Hey everyone! I have the main Taerobee parts together now, and I've uploaded it to the Taerobee Github. Please feel free to take a look at it and let me know what you think. @Beale, let me know how you feel about the style, etc when you get the chance.

Known issues
-Fins, when angled, do not put a spin on the rocket for stabilization.
-I cannot get the SAS on the despin module to work, I don't know what I'm doing wrong.

LINK TO ALBUM

[Deimos Rast]

19 hours ago, CobaltWolf said:

Hey everyone! I have the main Taerobee parts together now, and I've uploaded it to the Taerobee Github. Please feel free to take a look at it and let me know what you think. @Beale, let me know how you feel about the style, etc when you get the chance.

Known issues
-Fins, when angled, do not put a spin on the rocket for stabilization.
-I cannot get the SAS on the despin module to work, I don't know what I'm doing wrong.

LINK TO ALBUM

 

You might need on the SAS "Standalone = True" - check the stock Avionics Nosecone for example. I can't find your part to check it (what's a "despin module" ?)

EDIT: Bumper Control? If it has a command module it shouldn't need Standalone.

EDIT2: No ModuleDataTransmitters?! DO IT AGAIN.

EDIT3: Are you testing it with commnet enabled? No datatransmitters could be killing the probe control.

Edited November 10, 2016 by Deimos Rast

[CobaltWolf]

39 minutes ago, Deimos Rast said:

You might need on the SAS "Standalone = True" - check the stock Avionics Nosecone for example. I can't find your part to check it (what's a "despin module" ?)

EDIT: Bumper Control? If it has a command module it shouldn't need Standalone.

EDIT2: No ModuleDataTransmitters?! DO IT AGAIN.

EDIT3: Are you testing it with commnet enabled? No datatransmitters could be killing the probe control.

So, on the Taerobee (aka Aerobee sounding rocket, though this is something of a mix of many common ones. There are like 10 variants of Aerobee alone) the fins are meant to be angled, to put a spin on it to stabilize it. Near apogee, little RCS thrusters need to fire to allow it to kill the spin, to let the experiments work. It then comes down and detaches from the sustainer stage when it deploys the parachute.

The issue from my POV (aside from it not working) is to make it capable of doing that, but to the extent that it's possible to control, NOTHING MORE. My issue is that it really disrupts balance having a lot of feature rich parts so early in the game. I'd like to make it so their possibilities for lego'ing are, at least, limited.

[Deimos Rast]

3 hours ago, CobaltWolf said:

So, on the Taerobee (aka Aerobee sounding rocket, though this is something of a mix of many common ones. There are like 10 variants of Aerobee alone) the fins are meant to be angled, to put a spin on it to stabilize it. Near apogee, little RCS thrusters need to fire to allow it to kill the spin, to let the experiments work. It then comes down and detaches from the sustainer stage when it deploys the parachute.

The issue from my POV (aside from it not working) is to make it capable of doing that, but to the extent that it's possible to control, NOTHING MORE. My issue is that it really disrupts balance having a lot of feature rich parts so early in the game. I'd like to make it so their possibilities for lego'ing are, at least, limited.

Alright, I'm not sure I fully understand you, but lack of understanding hasn't stopped me thus far, so here's a wild shot.

You want the SAS to work only at AP? Cut off FuelCrossFeed on the part, give it a little bit of the ElectricCharge resource, make the SAS module like I have it below, and set the rate to something that burns EC fast enough to incentivize the player to use the SAS in only a short burst. When it runs out of EC, SAS should turn off. In theory? Maybe the field something something "RequiredResource = ElectricCharge" or whatever works with this module too (you know the one).

Am I making any sense or are we two ships passing in the night?

EDIT: For added points, set the ElectricCharge as invisible/hideflow/tweakble false etc.

	MODULE
	{
		name = ModuleSAS
		SASServiceLevel = 0
		standalone = True
		RESOURCE
		{
			name = ElectricCharge
			rate = 0.03 // your number here :)
		}
	}

 

Edited November 11, 2016 by Deimos Rast

[Deimos Rast]

@CobaltWolf

I tried the below, but for some reason, the SAS breaks through FuelCrossfeed and gobbles up the ElectricCharge of the Probe as well.

The SAS works though.

 

//Taerobee SMS-RT6 Despin Thrusters
@PART[taerobee_despin]:NEEDS[Taerobee]
{
  %fuelCrossFeed = False // True
  @MODULE[ModuleSAS]
	{
		%SASServiceLevel = 0
		%standalone = True
		RESOURCE
		{
			name = ElectricCharge
			rate = 1.0
		}
	}
  RESOURCE
  {
    name = ElectricCharge
    amount = 10
    maxAmount = 10
    isTweakable = false
    hideFlow = true
    isVisible = true // false
  }
}

 

Edited November 11, 2016 by Deimos Rast

[CobaltWolf]

11 hours ago, Deimos Rast said:

@CobaltWolf

I tried the below, but for some reason, the SAS breaks through FuelCrossfeed and gobbles up the ElectricCharge of the Probe as well.

The SAS works though.

 

//Taerobee SMS-RT6 Despin Thrusters
@PART[taerobee_despin]:NEEDS[Taerobee]
{
  %fuelCrossFeed = False // True
  @MODULE[ModuleSAS]
	{
		%SASServiceLevel = 0
		%standalone = True
		RESOURCE
		{
			name = ElectricCharge
			rate = 1.0
		}
	}
  RESOURCE
  {
    name = ElectricCharge
    amount = 10
    maxAmount = 10
    isTweakable = false
    hideFlow = true
    isVisible = true // false
  }
}

 

What about disabling it on the control module as well? I'll have to try that.

can you not put a spin on it by angling the fins? I certainly can't.

[Deimos Rast]

57 minutes ago, CobaltWolf said:

What about disabling it on the control module as well? I'll have to try that.

can you not put a spin on it by angling the fins? I certainly can't.

Is that even possible with stock aerodynamics? I've honestly never tried to spin my rockets, they usually do that enough on their own

So you want to disable two sources of SAS simultaneously? Lol. Well, "no EC" would do that, and maybe it is good that the SAS eats the probe's EC after all then.

For reference: this is the ModuleSAS API documentation here, maybe you'll see something I missed.

[Jso]

52 minutes ago, CobaltWolf said:

What about disabling it on the control module as well? I'll have to try that.

can you not put a spin on it by angling the fins? I certainly can't.

They work, you just have to rotate them sideways.

Stick a Squad Basic Fin on, and click on it with the rotate tool. Note how the blue circle in in the same plane as the lifting surface. Now do the same with yours. The red circle is in the same plane as the (visual) lifting surface. If you rotate it around the green plane 90 degrees, then slightly either way in the red plane, they spin the rocket.

This works:

 

ElectricCharge always goes through a crossfeed. You could have the SAS consume MonoProp instead of EC if giving it a limited life is the goal.

[CobaltWolf]

6 minutes ago, Jso said:

They work, you just have to rotate them sideways.

Stick a Squad Basic Fin on, and click on it with the rotate tool. Note how the blue circle in in the same plane as the lifting surface. Now do the same with yours. The red circle is in the same plane as the (visual) lifting surface. If you rotate it around the green plane 90 degrees, then slightly either way in the red plane, they spin the rocket.

This works:

~snip~

ElectricCharge always goes through a crossfeed. You could have the SAS consume MonoProp instead of EC if giving it a limited life is the goal.

Oh! Ok, I can fix that then. And good idea with the monoprop!

[Deimos Rast]

7 minutes ago, Jso said:

They work, you just have to rotate them sideways.

Stick a Squad Basic Fin on, and click on it with the rotate tool. Note how the blue circle in in the same plane as the lifting surface. Now do the same with yours. The red circle is in the same plane as the (visual) lifting surface. If you rotate it around the green plane 90 degrees, then slightly either way in the red plane, they spin the rocket.

This works:

 

 

ElectricCharge always goes through a crossfeed. You could have the SAS consume MonoProp instead of EC if giving it a limited life is the goal.

You might have won the Internet for the day...

[CobaltWolf]

Fixes are in - they worked!

[Beale]

On 10/11/2016 at 3:39 AM, CobaltWolf said:

Hey everyone! I have the main Taerobee parts together now, and I've uploaded it to the Taerobee Github. Please feel free to take a look at it and let me know what you think. @Beale, let me know how you feel about the style, etc when you get the chance.

Known issues
-Fins, when angled, do not put a spin on the rocket for stabilization.
-I cannot get the SAS on the despin module to work, I don't know what I'm doing wrong.

LINK TO ALBUM

I'm so happy to see these!

It is exactly what this mod should have begun from, if I had the time.
Many thanks @CobaltWolf & @VenomousRequiem!

I should clean the X-1 when I have a chance  

[Jall]

May I suggest with the Taerobee that the main motor be encased in the fuel tank since I don't think I've ever seen a sounding rocket with an exposed engine like this.

On 11/4/2016 at 0:37 AM, CobaltWolf said: