[1.12.5] Cormorant Aeronology - Mk3 Space Shuttle

[Pak]

@CobaltWolf is there a dislike button

[CobaltWolf]

1 minute ago, Pak said:

@CobaltWolf is there a dislike button

I wish. I'd use it on you, dad.

[DJ Reonic]

@Pak Have you considered thrust profiles for your SRBs? I was looking at trying to make an MM config for the SRBs to use with Boosteriferous.

https://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/125618-12beta-boosteriferous-srb-thrust-profiles/

[Drew Kerman]

7 hours ago, DJ Reonic said:

@Pak Have you considered thrust profiles for your SRBs? I was looking at trying to make an MM config for the SRBs to use with Boosteriferous.

https://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/125618-12beta-boosteriferous-srb-thrust-profiles/

SRB thrust curves are also stock now, not sure if boostiferous adds any additional features 

 

[RealKerbal3x]

Quick question..... are the STS and Buran cockpits separate parts or are they just textures? Because I want to know if the 6 seat mk3 cockpit mod I have installed will work with it. Thanks

[Bottle Rocketeer 500]

1 hour ago, RealKerbal3x said:

Quick question..... are the STS and Buran cockpits separate parts or are they just textures? Because I want to know if the 6 seat mk3 cockpit mod I have installed will work with it. Thanks

@RealKerbal3x They are textures

[DJ Reonic]

Using the 2.5x config in a 2.5x rescaled system, I feel like the SRB's drop way too early. I'm usually still near-vertical when the SRB's fall off, but in a stock system with the default config, the SRB's come off about where I'd expect them to. Anyone else noticing this?

[Rock3tman_]

3 hours ago, DJ Reonic said:

Using the 2.5x config in a 2.5x rescaled system, I feel like the SRB's drop way too early. I'm usually still near-vertical when the SRB's fall off, but in a stock system with the default config, the SRB's come off about where I'd expect them to. Anyone else noticing this?

Are you using the default craft files? You will need to manually replace the boosters if you are, then they will have the patched values.

[RealKerbal3x]

@Bottle Rocketeer 500 Thanks

[ksp CCCP 1.3.9]

The spiral (aerospace system) The MiG-105 USSR 

[Hunony]

just asking why my shuttle is so instable when gonna land in runway like i launch a satellite and when returnning like entering atmosphere my shuttle just become very unstable and it points for retrograde for some reason making landing reverse and very hard

[LawnDartLeo]

On 8/21/2017 at 6:53 AM, drtedastro said:

The shuttle launches perfect with MechJeb.  You just need to make a few tweaks to the parameters / settings.  I followed Pak's instructions on how to fly and what to do when and added this info to the flight profile for the shuttle in mechjeb.

Rock Solid.

Flying by hand is tricky, but doable.  But i rather spend my time pushing the engineering than flying...

I am working on a short vid to show what i have done for flight to orbit.

But again, Pak's shuttle is rock solid and a joy to fly ..

Soooo, about those parameters.

Can you expand on this at all?

The launch is stable but ends up going off to north east at about 045.  During the ascent, it tries to fight itself back to 090.  The orbit is set for zero inclination and ends up being in the 20's.

Watching the ball, the nav guidance is on 90 but the velocity vector is, as I stated earlier, going 045 north of 090.

 

Edited February 7, 2018 by LawnDartLeo

[drtedastro]

I will pull that info out and get it to you.

I have several saves going on and that one was archived back a bit.

Cheers.

[Bjalfi]

9 hours ago, LawnDartLeo said:

Soooo, about those parameters.

Can you expand on this at all?

The launch is stable but ends up going off to north east at about 045.  During the ascent, it tries to fight itself back to 090.  The orbit is set for zero inclination and ends up being in the 20's.

Watching the ball, the nav guidance is on 90 but the velocity vector is, as I stated earlier, going 045 north of 090.

 

Personally I set force roll to 180º for climb and turn, keep acceleration between 15 and 17 m/s^2 and throttle over 66%.  I also use smart parts for staging and turning on the gimbal for the SSME's at 3% fuel levels in the SRB/LRB's.  The biggest help though was getting  control surface toggle and using it to turn off everything except the second flap on the rudder, which you have to do manually, this keeps MechJeb from getting into a feedback loop.  Hopefully this is helpful.

[Pak]

@Hunony I would guess you're holding the nose up for too long or hitting the thicker atmosphere going too fast. 

To prevent flat spins you'll want to have the nose around 0 or negative pitch as your speed drops below 1000-800 m/s.

You could also try different entry burns to make sure you're not too steep or have the shuttle nose up around 30-40 degrees on entry so you slow down if you're not doing that.

 

Good luck

[Hunony]

2 hours ago, Pak said:

@Hunony I would guess you're holding the nose up for too long or hitting the thicker atmosphere going too fast. 

To prevent flat spins you'll want to have the nose around 0 or negative pitch as your speed drops below 1000-800 m/s.

You could also try different entry burns to make sure you're not too steep or have the shuttle nose up around 30-40 degrees on entry so you slow down if you're not doing that.

 

Good luck

so i'll have to do a orbit like periapsis 75000 and the other like 55000 to entry atmosphere and the shuttle be stable?

[dyyyy24]

is there a reason why the parts arent showing up in the part menu?

 

[LawnDartLeo]

@dyyyy24 ... budget cuts.

I'm willing to bet that you mis-installed.

Check you game data folder for the Cormorant Aeronolgy folder.  Are you playing sandbox or a career mode?  if a career mode, it may be that you don't have the tech.

 

 

 

Ok... there may be a design feature here, or it may be that I am clueless.

Why is there so little MP on the ship?  I have enough to make orbit, make a single orbital change and then only enough to deorbit.  There is not enough gas in the tank to make orbital changes necessary (two Hohmann transfers) to rendezvous with my station and then de-orbit unless I have MP on station to transfer back to the ship to finish the flight.

The wings and strakes can hold additional LF but there is no O storage much less more MP storage.

Advice appreciated.

 

 

 

Edited February 13, 2018 by LawnDartLeo

[Pak]

Hey guys,

I've been poking at getting the IUS working and making this heavy payload mount based on the Shuttle-Centaur mount. Once it's all working and balanced I'll probably put it up on the dev build while I work on the textures.

 

@LawnDartLeo I would guess your launch is a bit too high or your payload is too heavy.

I would check the guide from the OP if you haven't to see if you're doing a similar launch. Doing something like this your OMS burn should only cost about 50-80 dV leaving you with plenty of fuel for normal LKO missions.

[LawnDartLeo]

My station is at 185.... Ill drop it and see what happens.

[LawnDartLeo]

.... aaaaaaaand by dropping orbit to 80 we have a whopping 14m/s to make up for circularized orbit.

[TheRedTom]

13 hours ago, Pak said:

[Snip image]

 

 

I love it! Excellent modelling, this will go excellently with the shiny new BDB Centaur parts

Edited February 13, 2018 by TheRedTom

[RealKerbal3x]

I have three questions.

Not raging at this mod (it's awesome) but question 1: On a shuttle mission I brought 19 tonnes of payload to LKO and still had 345 m/s of delta-V remaining. On the next flight, I brought about 3 and a half tonnes of payload to LKO and only had about 50 m/s of delta-V remaining. Any idea why this is?

Question 2: I have flown 3 shuttle missions using this mod so far. The first mission, I de-orbited and had to ditch the shuttle in the ocean about 100 km off KSC. The next mission, I de-orbited wrong again and landed hard in the ocean not far off the east peninsula, destroying my wings and two of the main engines. On the third flight, I followed the landing guide @Pak made, and it was quite helpful, getting me a landing spot in the grasslands west of KSC, about 25 km out. But I want to land on target at the KSC, so where's the best place to deorbit and what's the best way to fly my re-entry and landing? (If it helps, I'm using a slightly modified version of the CA Mk3 Orbiter from KerbalX)

Question 3: During the final descent, the shuttle kept wanting to pitch down, despite my attempts to get my vertical speed under 10 metres per second. My vertical speed on landing always ended up being over 15 m/s, enough to break off the wings. I even tried using the RCS and OMS to pull up, but to no joy.  Pulling the drogue chute did not help either. How do I make a good, safe landing??

Sorry to be nagging, but I want to make sure that my shuttle works properly and that I can fly it properly. 

[FlyMeToTheMinmus]

4 hours ago, RealKerbal3x said:

I have three questions.

Not raging at this mod (it's awesome) but question 1: On a shuttle mission I brought 19 tonnes of payload to LKO and still had 345 m/s of delta-V remaining. On the next flight, I brought about 3 and a half tonnes of payload to LKO and only had about 50 m/s of delta-V remaining. Any idea why this is?

Question 2: I have flown 3 shuttle missions using this mod so far. The first mission, I de-orbited and had to ditch the shuttle in the ocean about 100 km off KSC. The next mission, I de-orbited wrong again and landed hard in the ocean not far off the east peninsula, destroying my wings and two of the main engines. On the third flight, I followed the landing guide @Pak made, and it was quite helpful, getting me a landing spot in the grasslands west of KSC, about 25 km out. But I want to land on target at the KSC, so where's the best place to deorbit and what's the best way to fly my re-entry and landing? (If it helps, I'm using a slightly modified version of the CA Mk3 Orbiter from KerbalX)

Question 3: During the final descent, the shuttle kept wanting to pitch down, despite my attempts to get my vertical speed under 10 metres per second. My vertical speed on landing always ended up being over 15 m/s, enough to break off the wings. I even tried using the RCS and OMS to pull up, but to no joy.  Pulling the drogue chute did not help either. How do I make a good, safe landing??

Sorry to be nagging, but I want to make sure that my shuttle works properly and that I can fly it properly. 

Based on my experience with shuttles in KSP:

1: Your ascent profile may have been better in the first mission, if you spent too long in the atmosphere (pitching too early for example) then you waste a lot of delta v overcoming drag.

2: The Trajectories mod is veeeery helpful for landing a shuttle at this accuracy, it's hard to judge without it.

3: The shuttle in-game seems to have better aerodynamics than the real thing, but it nonetheless is more like a flying brick than anything else. As was done IRL, you need to maintain a higher vertical speed than usual for aircraft until you are very close to the ground, and you should expect a higher landing speed than usual. The shuttle wings don't produce a lot of lift, and with no propulsion you will stall quickly in near-horizontal flight. Aim for a steep re-entry just short of the runway and then start to pull up somewhere around or below 5000 m. This will give you enough speed from the shuttle's falling energy that you can make it to a landing safely. Your nose pitches down when you don't have enough horizontal velocity.

[LawnDartLeo]

I don't see much discussion in this thread on Kanadarms. Made a nice one up with IR. Problem is that every element of the arm apparently weighs as much as the shuttle because any joint movement displays Newton's 3rd law quite well.  Even just twisting the wrist will spin the shuttle in the opposite direction... no load attached.  Speed and accelerations are as low as they can go. I'm sure there are other arm users here.  What is the solution?