[1.12.5] Bluedog Design Bureau - Stockalike Saturn, Apollo, and more! (v1.13.0 "Забытый" 13/Aug/2023)

[Stolas]

[chaos113]

3 hours ago, Zorg said:

The in game designation PL20-X3 is based on the RL-20 P3 design. It was Pratt & Whitney's early concept of a staged combustion cycle engine in the J2 thrust class. P&W were investigating the staged combustion cycle at a time when Rocketdyne was mostly interested in J2 nozzle improvements and aerospikes. Not much came of the RL20 design although it was seen in a handful of Saturn MLV documents as a future J2 replacement. Pratt & Whitney's staged combustion efforts evolved into the XLR-129 (which is also modelled in game) which went into component testing as it was developed for the ISINGLASS spyplane. Later the 129 was the basis for their SSME proposal and was the presumed leader throughout most of the competition until the thrust requirement went up and Rocketdyne won with their proposal. Thats a long story in and of itself.

Anyway for the RL20, both sea level and vacuum optimised versions were looked at.

 

 

Would it be possible to make a fixed nozzle vacuum version 

[Zorg]

33 minutes ago, chaos113 said:

Would it be possible to make a fixed nozzle vacuum version 

I really don't intend to revisit those parts sorry.

[Entr8899]

7 hours ago, Zorg said:

The in game designation PL20-X3 is based on the RL-20 P3 design. It was Pratt & Whitney's early concept of a staged combustion cycle engine in the J2 thrust class. P&W were investigating the staged combustion cycle at a time when Rocketdyne was mostly interested in J2 nozzle improvements and aerospikes. Not much came of the RL20 design although it was seen in a handful of Saturn MLV documents as a future J2 replacement. Pratt & Whitney's staged combustion efforts evolved into the XLR-129 (which is also modelled in game) which went into component testing as it was developed for the ISINGLASS spyplane. Later the 129 was the basis for their SSME proposal and was the presumed leader throughout most of the competition until the thrust requirement went up and Rocketdyne won with their proposal. Thats a long story in and of itself.

Anyway for the RL20, both sea level and vacuum optimised versions were looked at.

 

 

Why is it so teeny weeny compared to the J2?

[Pappystein]

23 minutes ago, Entr8899 said:

Why is it so teeny weeny compared to the J2?

Moar  Compression = Moar Thrust and higher ISP!

 

Rocketdyne liked low-performance, reliable, dependable engines.   It is how they garnered their reputation as an engine manufacturer. There is nothing wrong with that, but at the scale of the F-1 and J-2, this process leaves a lot of meat on the bones, as it were.   Using a similar staged combustion cycle you probably could get F-1 thrust out of the E-1 engine bell

See the RD-170 and it's performance in the realm of the F-1 and it is less mass and physically smaller (not by much due to 4 bells).  There was a large single-bell engine in the Soviet Union that could develop a similar thrust in theory, but the breakup of the Soviet Union sadly canceled it.   

Edited August 5, 2023 by Pappystein

[ThatGust]

Good morning/evening, is the FLO Lunar Outpost planned for later? Thanks in advance!

[DaveyJ576]

On 8/3/2023 at 4:42 PM, Invaderchaos said:

working on some stuff for BDB extras... here is the full lineup of the XLR81 engines with a more accurate reskin. the only ones altered are the Bell 8081 (Agena B), Bell 8096 (Agena D), and Bell 8096-39 (Agena D w/ High-Density Acid). What's different from normal BDB is that the nozzle interiors are white for these engines, and the agena-D/8096 nozzle is green, like it is irl.

Also made alternate textures for the Juno tankage with accurate lettering and no lettering:

Hey @Invaderchaos, excellent work as always. Thank you. One note to other users… make sure that you make the AlternateXLR81Textures and the RedstoneAlternateTextures folders a sub-folder under Bluedog_DB_Extras. If not, you will get B9PS errors about not finding the new textures. 
 

Since you seem to be in the texturing mood, how about this alternate one for Mercury Redstone-1?

Admittedly its a bit niche, but pretty cool nonetheless. Either way, thanks for all the attention to detail. I appreciate it.

[DA299]

Hey guys, I asked this a while ago, but now with all the updates, thought I'll ask this again: How is the RealFuels-Stock compatibility of this mod? (I'm talking about the latest version from github.)

[Zorg]

4 hours ago, DA299 said:

Hey guys, I asked this a while ago, but now with all the updates, thought I'll ask this again: How is the RealFuels-Stock compatibility of this mod? (I'm talking about the latest version from github.)

Not sure myself. Compatibility for Realfuels is handled on the RealFuels Stockalike mod side. It doesnt look like its been updated since 2020.

16 hours ago, Entr8899 said:

Why is it so teeny weeny compared to the J2?

As Pappystein said, staged combustion = higher pressure =  smaller engine for same thrust (plus more Isp).

That said it is worth questioning the compactness of its turbo machinery a little. Every operational or near operational staged combustion cycle design I've looked at has boost pumps upstream of the main pumps (Including the RD170/180 family, SSME etc). Im not sure if the RL20 design, which was a very early concept of the staged cycle had such boost pumps. I guess it's possible its integrated together with the main pumps physically but the main high pressure fuel outlets being at the very top of the pumps suggest otherwise. Anyway theres not a lot of detailed information about the RL20. Ultimately the much closer to production XLR129 ended up with a larger more complex powerhead for similar specs.

 

Edited August 6, 2023 by Zorg

[septemberWaves]

On 8/4/2023 at 2:49 PM, CobaltWolf said:

Yeah they require some tweaking, there wasn't a way to make it work automatically with every configuration of docking port etc that players might use.

Why does it have to attach to the docking port? Wouldn't a hidden node at the correct height inside of the orbital module work just fine? Then you can put whatever you like on the end without requiring any offset tool use.

[Stolas]

Сitadel

 

 

[CobaltWolf]

1 hour ago, septemberWaves said:

Why does it have to attach to the docking port? Wouldn't a hidden node at the correct height inside of the orbital module work just fine? Then you can put whatever you like on the end without requiring any offset tool use.

... fair.

[Brainpop14]

On 7/28/2023 at 12:54 PM, CobaltWolf said:

Viking Aeroshell is coming along swimmingly. Soon we'll be on to the hard part...

Just getting more and more excited!

[Stolas]

[GoldForest]

@CobaltWolf Any plans to make the M-57A1 upper stage of the Minotaur family so we could make Minotaur I and II? 

[GoldForest]

Kepler Tax! Launched during a Solar Eclipse too! Makes everything dark as heck, but I think it adds a special kind of aesthetic. 

Full album: Imgur: The magic of the Internet

[Invaderchaos]

On 8/5/2023 at 6:40 PM, DaveyJ576 said:

Hey @Invaderchaos, excellent work as always. Thank you. One note to other users… make sure that you make the AlternateXLR81Textures and the RedstoneAlternateTextures folders a sub-folder under Bluedog_DB_Extras. If not, you will get B9PS errors about not finding the new textures. 
 

Since you seem to be in the texturing mood, how about this alternate one for Mercury Redstone-1?

Admittedly its a bit niche, but pretty cool nonetheless. Either way, thanks for all the attention to detail. I appreciate it.

I’ll look into fixing the file folder structure soon. I’m not really interested in doing uncrewed variations of Mercury redstone. Briefly thought of doing the Mercury Redstone tank texture, but currently it can be accomplished with the full white tank with some conformal decal trickery. I might consider it at some point tho 
 

[CobaltWolf]

9 hours ago, GoldForest said:

@CobaltWolf Any plans to make the M-57A1 upper stage of the Minotaur family so we could make Minotaur I and II? 

No plans, sorry.

[DaveyJ576]

45 minutes ago, Invaderchaos said:

I’ll look into fixing the file folder structure soon. I’m not really interested in doing uncrewed variations of Mercury redstone. Briefly thought of doing the Mercury Redstone tank texture, but currently it can be accomplished with the full white tank with some conformal decal trickery. I might consider it at some point tho 
 

Thank you for the consideration.

On a semi-related note, how is the Oscar-1 sub-satellite supposed to be attached to the Agena? It does not have a built-in decoupler, and I can't seem to get any of the other decouplers to surface attach to the Agena A/B equipment rack. The equipment rack itself also does not have a side decoupler. It is distinctly possible that I am missing something obvious, but I am scratching my head on this one.

[Zorg]

48 minutes ago, DaveyJ576 said:

Thank you for the consideration.

On a semi-related note, how is the Oscar-1 sub-satellite supposed to be attached to the Agena? It does not have a built-in decoupler, and I can't seem to get any of the other decouplers to surface attach to the Agena A/B equipment rack. The equipment rack itself also does not have a side decoupler. It is distinctly possible that I am missing something obvious, but I am scratching my head on this one.

I dont think it detached. But invader can confirm.

[DaveyJ576]

So, yeah, I have been playing around with Agena based payloads, and I kitbashed the mission below. Many thanks to @KeaKaka for the inspiration.

On February 21, 1962, Thor 332 and Agena B A2301 lifted off from Vandenberg with a mysterious payload. The nose cone was conical with no obvious reentry vehicle, so it couldn't be a Discoverer/Corona bird...

 

 

No further information of substance was released by the Department of Defense. However, a recent FOIA request turned up the following images. It is not known how they were obtained.

Spoiler

Vehicle climb out from Vandy went very well. Not due south, but southeast. -82 degree launch azimuth.

 

Staging was successful and the Agena B continued the climb to a 200 km orbit.

 

On orbit, the Agena deployed antennas and confirmed its health to the ground.

 

The aerodynamic nose cone was jettisoned and the payload was fully deployed.

This was the first P-102 Heavy Ferret ELINT/SIGINT mission, designated Mission 7151 in DoD documents. The mission was entirely successful and deorbited after 11 days.

 

It was a lot of fun kitbashing this. The bulk of the parts are BDB, with some Coatl and Restock thrown in. I made the configuration of the Thor Agena B as close as I could to known photos of the launch. The payload configuration of course is highly speculative and is based on a representation on Gunter's Space Page. I threw in the long line antennas for a cool visual effect.

Edited August 8, 2023 by DaveyJ576
Deleted picture

[CobaltWolf]

1 hour ago, DaveyJ576 said:

It was a lot of fun kitbashing this. The bulk of the parts are BDB, with some Coatl and Restock thrown in. I made the configuration of the Thor Agena B as close as I could to known photos of the launch. The payload configuration of course is highly speculative and is based on a representation on Gunter's Space Page. I threw in the long line antennas for a cool visual effect.

Oh that's fantastic! I'd love to see more kitbashed recreations like this, there's a lot of stuff that we've never made dedicated parts for.

[biohazard15]

51 minutes ago, CobaltWolf said:

Oh that's fantastic! I'd love to see more kitbashed recreations like this, there's a lot of stuff that we've never made dedicated parts for.

Funny thing: some crafts I've made kitbashes of were eventually made for BDB. Syncom 3, Little Joe 2, upcoming Viking - that's what I can remember.

So go kitbash funny stuff, people - you never know when inspiration may strike the BDB team.

[DaveyJ576]

3 hours ago, CobaltWolf said:

Oh that's fantastic! I'd love to see more kitbashed recreations like this, there's a lot of stuff that we've never made dedicated parts for.

Thanks! There is an excellent launch photo of this very flight on Nasaspaceflight.com L2. I originally reposted it here, but I took it down as I realized it wasn’t in the public domain. The one part I couldn’t recreate on the launch shot was the silver finish that the actual Agena vehicle had. It probably was some sort of passive thermal control technique. Oh well. The white works just as good. 
 

I have some nice Samos E-1, E-5, and E-6 kitbashes, along with Midas Series 1 and 2. Those were all launched by Atlas so I am waiting on the Atlas rework project to properly display them. 

Edited August 9, 2023 by DaveyJ576
Typo

[GoldForest]

Minuteman IA/IB kitbash. Because Cobalt is too stubborn to finish off the family. JK! 

I call it a Minuteman IA and IB kitbash because MM IA and IB were practically the same vehicle. The only difference was the main stage on the IB was an E1 variant instead of an A1 variant. I personally don't know what the difference is between them, but I'm sure it's avionics or a different style of grain used for the solid fuel, or something like that. I'm sure @Pappystein will enlighten us all with the correct information. Walking Wikipedia they are.  

I guess this could also be considered a Minuteman II Kitbash, as well as a MSLS-A and OSP-TLV Kitbash. 

Full album: Imgur: The magic of the Internet

Edited August 9, 2023 by GoldForest