[1.12.5] Bluedog Design Bureau - Stockalike Saturn, Apollo, and more! (v1.14.0 "металл" 30/Sep/2024)

[Friznit]

I'm following the instructions in the old stations manuael, which indicates it goes on the MOS.

[Damon]

Coming in hot with LC-17
 

[CobaltWolf]

Well... today's the day. Time to get the new Titan 2 in game. Dev stream going up now!

 

[CobaltWolf]

[hieywiey]

30 minutes ago, CobaltWolf said:

[Snip]

That's absolutely gorgeous! When should it be up on GitHub?

[Pappystein]

1 hour ago, hieywiey said:

That's absolutely gorgeous! When should it be up on GitHub?

um... It appears to have been on the Git for an entire hour before you posted?!?    IDK I just re-downloaded so...  

 

[hieywiey]

1 minute ago, Pappystein said:

um... It appears to have been on the Git for an entire hour before you posted?!?    IDK I just re-downloaded so...  

 

I did a dumb, I didn't check the dev branch...

[Pappystein]

29 minutes ago, hieywiey said:

I did a dumb, I didn't check the dev branch...

I have the wardrobe on that fact, so good company? 

 

Edited March 24, 2019 by Pappystein
Grammer grammer grammer! :)

[Pappystein]

2 hours ago, CobaltWolf said:

Wow, nice set of Photos @CobaltWolf  you made all the things (Good bad and Ugly) shine through without being in your face most of the time.  I love that the structure is visible if you look but disappears when you are not paying attention!  Up close the Titan Rocket is kind of ugly.   But with your skill and persistence it looks very RIGHT! 

I love the Hot stage per real life.  @Jso as always great work with the balance and the engine effects!   @JadeOfMaar Thanks for your work on the engine effects as well!  It looks  REALLY REALLY GOOD all!     Now, thanks to some major behind the scenes help/expertise from Jso, I just need to finish tweaking my personal Hypergolic CFGs before I can fly this myself.   

 

[DiscoSlelge]

3 hours ago, CobaltWolf said:

Okay I found my new phone template ! I've silent here for a long time, but here I said, the amount of work put in this titan revamp is just stunning, the craft looks amazing, neat and fresh. This shot looks strangely realistic to me and makes me say "wow this is really impressive". Thanks for the hard work you make for us <3 Love <3

(And the orange decoupler is so nice)

Edited March 24, 2019 by DiscoSlelge

[Pappystein]

Ok so I have now completed 12 test flights of the new Titan II parts.  Experimenting with auto de-orbit like the missile had (I don't like debris parts in space.)   Initial impressions / Alpha Test notes:

I can't say it better than @DiscoSlelge about the quality of the artwork. 

I LOVE the fact that you have to wait for the main engine to spool up before launching.  I did some rough calculations.  Space Launch report stated that the Gemini 2 GLV burnt ~1800kg of AZ50/NTO before the launch clamps were released... In game the engine burns about 350kg of AZ50/NTO (patched) before full thrust so SPOT ON!

Fuel loads, while light for a similar tank from a different rocket are as per real life (the actual tanks in Titans are Tiny compared to the overall outer skin.  Only when you get to the Titan IV do they start to get "fuller"   But even then Titan IV still has one of the lowest fuel volume to tank volume ratios of any rocket in production post 1970.   That means if you put a different 1.875m tank the same size as a Titan tank next to the Titan tank... the Titan Tank will actually have LESS FUEL.  that is AS IT SHOULD BE!   Awesome keeping it real.

@CobaltWolf  I think I am a LOW tank rider...   The High tank for Stage 1 is very visible in the inter-stage blow-holes but I think the low choice is what is right... for me.  I love how you have all the aux holes cut out of the tank.   And thanks for the extra work to make the dome of the tank easier to see... While it isn't for me I am sure a lot of people will like the HIGH tank. 

Re the Decoupler between Gemini and the Titan II tank.  Is there plans for that to have color choices like the MX?   I am thinking between White/Buff/Metal and most importantly for reasons... Black?

All in all I have to say these Alpha parts seem AMAZING!   I can not wait for the final part balance and official release!

 

Lastly I want to thank you for having the P/S ready on the LR87 before posting these up.  I know they flew on all the Titan GLVs but I do not like the sugar scoops on a bare LR87.   On the engine alone I think they look fine (it isn't an ART thing!) I just think they take away from the rest of the Titan II.  So After one flight with Sugar Scoops on I have been flying with the"BARE" engine mount.   The Titan I LR87-AJ-3 Elevator lift structure looks good (but I have not flown with that engaged yet... just looked at it in the VAB. 

 

A Final thought.  The Bawoomp sound when the LR87 ignites seems too quiet.  Now before going further let me say I AM half deaf but I also have a high end sound system on my computer for this reason.   I can hear it but the "roar" sound of the engine is louder by far.   I don't know if that is adjustable (the volume between engine start and engine running.)  Or if some sort of delay between engine start and engine running can be implemented.   I have listened to it on my 7.2 headphones as well as the Surround sound I have hooked up to my Computer in both cases I would say the startup sounds are 50-60 percent as loud as Engine running.

 

[Barzon]

An idea for the plume to flow though the decoupler holes:

Have a dedicated plume? Which just has it going through where the holes are.

[Jall]

54 minutes ago, Barzon Kerman said:

An idea for the plume to flow though the decoupler holes:

Have a dedicated plume? Which just has it going through where the holes are.

I'm no expert here, but I'm pretty sure you can't change the plume around like that during flight so it goes through the decoupler and then changes back to a normal plume after staging. 

Unless you animated the decoupler itself to have the plume flow through the holes before blowing the decoupler apart like in real life? Either way I'm not going to be too picky on such a minor thing when we're already getting such amazing content.

[Barzon]

I think you can change plume? It would have to be a separate engine mode, but it would make the Titan pretty much probably never need an update again, as it would be perfect.

[Jall]

You're right, that would be a way to do it. My only complaint with that would be the fact that you'd have to manually change the plume after staging. Kinda immersion breaking to me.

[hieywiey]

The bottom of the Agena docking port is pink/purple, i.e. the missing texture kind.

[Friznit]

That's fixed in the dev version

[Pappystein]

2 hours ago, Friznit said:

That's fixed in the dev version

um?  It is?  *Quickly opens KSP*   I have the new titan parts so I have the latest Dev version and I have a Pink Agena bottom plate.  And before it is asked I DID delete my Bluedog_DB directory before installing the new one.  @CobaltWolf @Jso  Did the fix get accidentally de-merged?  Or has the fix not been implemented yet?

 

[Friznit]

Apologies then, maybe I got that wrong but I could have sworn I saw it in the commit history.  It's quite conceivable I imagined it though.

[CobaltWolf]

21 hours ago, Pappystein said:

um... It appears to have been on the Git for an entire hour before you posted?!?    IDK I just re-downloaded so... 

20 hours ago, hieywiey said:

I did a dumb, I didn't check the dev branch...

20 hours ago, Pappystein said:

I have the wardrobe on that fact, so good company? 

I've been trying not to immediately announce stuff being on the Github so that Jso has a chance to look at it first.

 

20 hours ago, Pappystein said:

Wow, nice set of Photos @CobaltWolf  you made all the things (Good bad and Ugly) shine through without being in your face most of the time.  I love that the structure is visible if you look but disappears when you are not paying attention!  Up close the Titan Rocket is kind of ugly.   But with your skill and persistence it looks very RIGHT! 

I love the Hot stage per real life.  @Jso as always great work with the balance and the engine effects!   @JadeOfMaar Thanks for your work on the engine effects as well!  It looks  REALLY REALLY GOOD all!     Now, thanks to some major behind the scenes help/expertise from Jso, I just need to finish tweaking my personal Hypergolic CFGs before I can fly this myself.  

Yeah I feel like I may have found the right middle ground for making all the structure present but not too obvious. I still feel like the second stage feels too much like a texture that's been slapped on and not a real object.

Yes, I must thank @Jso for his work getting plumes config'd for the engines, @JadeOfMaar for making these custom fx in the first place, and also @damonvv for making the custom sound effects on the LR-87. Btw, if people normally play with sound off like I do, you should definitely check the startup sound on the LR-87 at least once.

 

 

19 hours ago, DiscoSlelge said:

Okay I found my new phone template ! I've silent here for a long time, but here I said, the amount of work put in this titan revamp is just stunning, the craft looks amazing, neat and fresh. This shot looks strangely realistic to me and makes me say "wow this is really impressive". Thanks for the hard work you make for us <3 Love <3

(And the orange decoupler is so nice)

Thanks Disco! It's really not just my stuff making it look good, I had all the mods in @Orbital_phoenix's visual setup guide and then some.

 

16 hours ago, Pappystein said:

Ok so I have now completed 12 test flights of the new Titan II parts.  Experimenting with auto de-orbit like the missile had (I don't like debris parts in space.)   Initial impressions / Alpha Test notes:

I can't say it better than @DiscoSlelge about the quality of the artwork. 

I LOVE the fact that you have to wait for the main engine to spool up before launching.  I did some rough calculations.  Space Launch report stated that the Gemini 2 GLV burnt ~1800kg of AZ50/NTO before the launch clamps were released... In game the engine burns about 350kg of AZ50/NTO (patched) before full thrust so SPOT ON!

Fuel loads, while light for a similar tank from a different rocket are as per real life (the actual tanks in Titans are Tiny compared to the overall outer skin.  Only when you get to the Titan IV do they start to get "fuller"   But even then Titan IV still has one of the lowest fuel volume to tank volume ratios of any rocket in production post 1970.   That means if you put a different 1.875m tank the same size as a Titan tank next to the Titan tank... the Titan Tank will actually have LESS FUEL.  that is AS IT SHOULD BE!   Awesome keeping it real.

@CobaltWolf  I think I am a LOW tank rider...   The High tank for Stage 1 is very visible in the inter-stage blow-holes but I think the low choice is what is right... for me.  I love how you have all the aux holes cut out of the tank.   And thanks for the extra work to make the dome of the tank easier to see... While it isn't for me I am sure a lot of people will like the HIGH tank. 

Re the Decoupler between Gemini and the Titan II tank.  Is there plans for that to have color choices like the MX?   I am thinking between White/Buff/Metal and most importantly for reasons... Black?

All in all I have to say these Alpha parts seem AMAZING!   I can not wait for the final part balance and official release!

 

Lastly I want to thank you for having the P/S ready on the LR87 before posting these up.  I know they flew on all the Titan GLVs but I do not like the sugar scoops on a bare LR87.   On the engine alone I think they look fine (it isn't an ART thing!) I just think they take away from the rest of the Titan II.  So After one flight with Sugar Scoops on I have been flying with the"BARE" engine mount.   The Titan I LR87-AJ-3 Elevator lift structure looks good (but I have not flown with that engaged yet... just looked at it in the VAB. 

 

A Final thought.  The Bawoomp sound when the LR87 ignites seems too quiet.  Now before going further let me say I AM half deaf but I also have a high end sound system on my computer for this reason.   I can hear it but the "roar" sound of the engine is louder by far.   I don't know if that is adjustable (the volume between engine start and engine running.)  Or if some sort of delay between engine start and engine running can be implemented.   I have listened to it on my 7.2 headphones as well as the Surround sound I have hooked up to my Computer in both cases I would say the startup sounds are 50-60 percent as loud as Engine running.

 

Personally I feel the spool up/down is too slow (I'd be happier with them being half as long) but I'm waiting to see how it grows on me.

I'm not sure if the fuel loadings were intended, @Jso if you'd like to comment on that. I think even if the tanks were the correct total length, the split may have been incorrect. I always kinda intended the Titan tanks to be the 'normal' 1.875m tanks so I don't know if we want to force players into a choice of "heavy, undefueled tanks or balloon tanks that can't be attached to" for 1.875m. Or maybe we do. Idk.

I am planning on making at least a few variants for most of the Titan parts. The Gemini decoupler is part of the Titan 2 second stage texture atlas, along with the LR-91 shroud and the decoupler, so basically I can have as many variants of the decoupler as there are variants of those other parts. At least 4 total, at a minimum, for the Titan 2 parts - GLV, 23G (all gray), Titan 3 (gold-ish), and white/black (traditional saturn-style paint, the lower tank is already covered so it would get the alternate Titan 3A stripe pattern). I've had people ask for a straight-black Titan but I don't know if I'd do that. All-black feels weird to me on a big liquid rocket like Titan.

I honestly much prefer the 'Titan 2' mount to the 'bare' mount just because it has the tank end and stuff.

We had to fix something in the cfg for the sound effect.

 

16 hours ago, Barzon Kerman said:

An idea for the plume to flow though the decoupler holes:

Have a dedicated plume? Which just has it going through where the holes are.

15 hours ago, Jall said:

I'm no expert here, but I'm pretty sure you can't change the plume around like that during flight so it goes through the decoupler and then changes back to a normal plume after staging. 

Unless you animated the decoupler itself to have the plume flow through the holes before blowing the decoupler apart like in real life? Either way I'm not going to be too picky on such a minor thing when we're already getting such amazing content.

14 hours ago, Barzon Kerman said:

I think you can change plume? It would have to be a separate engine mode, but it would make the Titan pretty much probably never need an update again, as it would be perfect.

13 hours ago, Jall said:

You're right, that would be a way to do it. My only complaint with that would be the fact that you'd have to manually change the plume after staging. Kinda immersion breaking to me.

Yeah, that all sounds like it wouldn't be worth it unfortunately.

 

4 hours ago, hieywiey said:

The bottom of the Agena docking port is pink/purple, i.e. the missing texture kind.

4 hours ago, Friznit said:

That's fixed in the dev version

1 hour ago, Pappystein said:

um?  It is?  *Quickly opens KSP*   I have the new titan parts so I have the latest Dev version and I have a Pink Agena bottom plate.  And before it is asked I DID delete my Bluedog_DB directory before installing the new one.  @CobaltWolf @Jso  Did the fix get accidentally de-merged?  Or has the fix not been implemented yet?

Fairly certain I haven't fixed it yet since I've been procrastinating on bug fixes again.

[Pulsar]

Great work so far! I'm having a blast with the revamp Titan II parts. Assemble GLV and Titan IIIE without engine upgrades and they look impressive. Apart from the Titan IIIE being a bit flip happy. It work fine.

I can't help but noticed that the LR-91 is immensely powerful for the second stage here. I have checked that it's 50% thrust of the real thing like other vacuum engines. I would personally limit the thrust to only 50% in my 2.5x settings for better control though. I would need to get used with engine spooling too, I always cut the thrust too late.

1 hour ago, CobaltWolf said:

I must thank @Jso for his work getting plumes config'd for the engines, @JadeOfMaar for making these custom fx in the first place, and also @damonvv for making the custom sound effects on the LR-87. Btw, if people normally play with sound off like I do, you should definitely check the startup sound on the LR-87 at least once.

1

Even better, how about 4 unit of them on the LDC? It's just... Stunning!

1 hour ago, CobaltWolf said:

I'm not sure if the fuel loadings were intended, @Jso if you'd like to comment on that. I think even if the tanks were the correct total length, the split may have been incorrect. I always kinda intended the Titan tanks to be the 'normal' 1.875m tanks so I don't know if we want to force players into a choice of "heavy, undefueled tanks or balloon tanks that can't be attached to" for 1.875m. Or maybe we do. Idk.

1

Any plan on the short 1.875m tanks? Those might be handy.

PS: More images here. https://imgur.com/a/Mol76Ju

[space_powder]

I can't launch the Titan II GLV from LC-19 because it says the craft is too big, is it because I'm using the Titan Launcher Platform from TSC and that makes it go beyond the size limit?

[Jso]

1 hour ago, CobaltWolf said:

I'm not sure if the fuel loadings were intended, @Jso if you'd like to comment on that. I think even if the tanks were the correct total length, the split may have been incorrect. I always kinda intended the Titan tanks to be the 'normal' 1.875m tanks so I don't know if we want to force players into a choice of "heavy, undefueled tanks or balloon tanks that can't be attached to" for 1.875m. Or maybe we do. Idk.

Balloon tanks, where did that come from? No balloon tanks on Titan, just regular old stock tanks. If anyone has used the alternate Titan GLV config from extras these will be like that. Normally we measure the part and fill fuel to 87% of that volume. On Titan that was leading to too heavy a rocket, mainly on the second stage where there is a whole lot of space that is not fuel tank. Instead these are loaded as a percentage of the real fuel weight. So far every variant I've tested is hitting the expected payload to orbit, so I think it's going to work out well.

12 minutes ago, Pulsar said:

I can't help but noticed that the LR-91 is immensely powerful for the second stage here.

They used to be at 40%. Because Titan is pretty powerful I initially changed them to 25%, then thought better of it and bumped them up to 50% like every other upper stage. In 2.5x you'll defiantly want to drop them to 50% on the thrust slider to get them back to 25% or you'll burn through the stage too quick. But the power is there if you want it. They'll probably change 3 or 4 more times before I settle on a number.

[CobaltWolf]

1 hour ago, Pulsar said:

Great work so far! I'm having a blast with the revamp Titan II parts. Assemble GLV and Titan IIIE without engine upgrades and they look impressive. Apart from the Titan IIIE being a bit flip happy. It work fine.

I can't help but noticed that the LR-91 is immensely powerful for the second stage here. I have checked that it's 50% thrust of the real thing like other vacuum engines. I would personally limit the thrust to only 50% in my 2.5x settings for better control though. I would need to get used with engine spooling too, I always cut the thrust too late.

Even better, how about 4 unit of them on the LDC? It's just... Stunning!

Any plan on the short 1.875m tanks? Those might be handy.

PS: More images here. https://imgur.com/a/Mol76Ju

Those pics are awesome!

 

42 minutes ago, space_powder said:

I can't launch the Titan II GLV from LC-19 because it says the craft is too big, is it because I'm using the Titan Launcher Platform from TSC and that makes it go beyond the size limit?

I'm not sure why, GLV worked for me from there while I was testing yesterday.

 

41 minutes ago, Jso said:

Balloon tanks, where did that come from? No balloon tanks on Titan, just regular old stock tanks. If anyone has used the alternate Titan GLV config from extras these will be like that. Normally we measure the part and fill fuel to 87% of that volume. On Titan that was leading to too heavy a rocket, mainly on the second stage where there is a whole lot of space that is not fuel tank. Instead these are loaded as a percentage of the real fuel weight. So far every variant I've tested is hitting the expected payload to orbit, so I think it's going to work out well.

I was saying, there are 2 1.875m launch vehicles in BDB - Titan, which is underfueled compared to a 'normal' tank, and Atlas, which is a balloon tank and can't be radial attached. If it's working then fine.

 

41 minutes ago, Jso said:

They used to be at 40%. Because Titan is pretty powerful I initially changed them to 25%, then thought better of it and bumped them up to 50% like every other upper stage. In 2.5x you'll defiantly want to drop them to 50% on the thrust slider to get them back to 25% or you'll burn through the stage too quick. But the power is there if you want it. They'll probably change 3 or 4 more times before I settle on a number.

I have to say, GLV was hard to get into a proper orbit in 2.5x when I was testing yesterday, I think for that reason - the LR-91 would always run out while I, and thus my PE, were too low. I think it should be lowered. We're starting to get precedent for having "second stage" (as opposed to upper stage) engines be somewhere between 25% and 50%.

[Pappystein]

So, I wanted to follow up with some pictures and additional notes after 24hours of playablitry with the new parts.

@CobaltWolf  I guess I don't understand what you are refering to on the 2nd stage being a Texture attached to something instead of something solid.   But I think you said that early on in the 1st stage development when the texture functionally complete as well so IDK.

RE The various shroud choices on the LR87.  As Cobalt pointed out a few posts up, you need the Air scopes to see the bottom of the tank...   In hind-sight that was probably why I didn't like it (it looks er... more(?) ) Having forced myself to fly a few of these beaus to see how it looked in flight.  I will retract/ammend my earlier statement to I like the Titan II fairing the best now. 

I learned earlier today that part of the reason my de-orbit tests have been failing is that certain SRMs don't have the patented BDB Safe Solid feature... Of course I was using THOSE solids.   I almost lost a Gemini capsule due to a run-away 2nd stage.  It struck and removed a Mystery goo container off the side of the Gemini.. .CLOSE CALL!    We now know why NASA refused to fly with the as designed Stage 2 separation motors

Somethings i I failed to mention (some of you may have found this out already but it is time to share with everyone   If you want JUST the new parts search SM68 instead of Titan.   When you search for SM68 you will still see some old UA120x models show up.  THESE ARE NEW CFGs using existing models.   Those of you who wanted to run a Titan III Commercial or Titan 34D, you have the placeholder parts to do so now!   YES  UA-1206 is in the placeholders!  You already have the Titan IIIM's first stage tank stretch

Now I used to play in a 2.5x scale system (and after I actually practice some things I may return to it soon) but I am currently running Hypergolic fuel through the Titan at an even further reduced fuel volume than you guys will all fly (it is a mass thing) I launched a Big-G with a 2.5m LFO SM (rescaled the 1.5m Gemini SM as I had nothing else unlocked with Mono-propellant) I launched with 2x UA-1206s as mentioned above (it is how I found them.)   I needed to get my Big G in an orbit and I made the mistake of letting Mechjeb fly it.   I made a 100km orbit on a goal of 350km.   If you fly with the LR87 on with the UA120x SRMs sometimes squirlyness can show up in the Mechjeb autopilot.   I ended up higher than intended at the end turn point (60km.)  This forced a "Burn down" to the correct flight path for efficient flying.  Of-course my final stage didn't have a high enough TWR to finish the intended orbit burn (since I was crashing through the atmo back down to 40km when the 2nd stage MECO due to fuel starvation.)

But all through this and a couple other flights I got some nice pictures (see the shiny pictures now! )

 

Had a bad landing happening so I attempted to punch the pilot out of the Gemini...    I couldn't get the Science officer out...  Thankfully the drogue chutes I had added because this was a high speed reentry.... well the capsule itself survive... Nothing attached to it did (including the drogue chutes) but the capsule DID survive...

Here you can see my UA-1206 equipped Titan 34D Carrying Big-G at LC-19 north.  This is about 10 miles north of the main KSP launch-plex.

After launch with the Mun in the background.   I downloaded some new visual effects for this series of photos.   Some are stunning.

And the Big-G capsule and the "enhanced" 2nd Stage (it uses the old small Titan II tank and the Titan I Stage 1-2 Fuel tank adaptor that actually should not exist (but works GREAT with Tweakscale for Big G so hope it stays around )  This particular setup gave me 16% more fuel than a standard Titan II/III upper stage.

And beautiful sunrise.   this is one of a series of 16 shots (8 are wasted because I have not rebound KSP to use something other than F12 for aerodynamic forces.)