Jump to content

[1.12.5] Bluedog Design Bureau - Stockalike Saturn, Apollo, and more! (v1.14.0 "металл" 30/Sep/2024)


CobaltWolf

Recommended Posts

14 minutes ago, Jcking said:

M-1, but wasn't that for NOVA?

Yup. However we've always wanted the M-1 in BDB for a revamped saturn update since it was contemporary to Saturn V development and is a crazy cool engine (before being killed off as a result of the Apollo programs funding requirements). We have no plans for Nova itself but you can have some fun with uprated saturns hopefully :). The vacuum version pictured is with a 40:1 nozzle but I plan to make a 20:1 sea level optimized version too.

We have at least two more slightly less less well known engines planned for BDB 1.8 :wink:.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

   

10 minutes ago, Clamp-o-Tron said:

 

Uhhh.... HG-3 and this... thing?

http://www.astronautix.com/s/saturnlcb-storable-140.html

 

6 minutes ago, CobaltWolf said:

Well I know for a fact it's NOT HG-3 but I'll let @Zorg explain

So @TimothyC and I spent quite some time looking into HG-3 through various original source files (as opposed to articles written about it) and as far as we can determine HG-3 was really a paper project. Not even so much a paper engine so much as a study program to examine various possibilities. The fact that there's a paper that suggests a J2 drop in replacement could be produced from some of the ideas studied for HG-3 as well as the influence the program  had on the SSME has given it some notoriety. However the fact remains that this is the best reference image from an original source we could find for HG-3.

Screenshot_2.png?width=276&height=361

Now if someone can find (well sourced) information to the contrary, or more importantly find some useful diagrams we could revisit HG-3.

However when looking at pre SSME American work on staged combustion, we do have the very interesting Pratt and Whitney XLR-129. A 1,100kn staged combustion engine with 465s of vacuum specific impulse that was originally developed for a B52 launched rocket spyplane: Project Isinglass. P&W later then tried to uprate it and try to win the propulsion for shuttle but it didnt work out. However unlike HG-3, actual components were produced and tested and we have reasonably high quality references for it.

I think it will be really fun engine with its axially oriented turbos and extensible transpiration cooled nozzle. (like the M1, the top section of the nozzle is regenerative but the lower section has the turbo exhaust flow through it and exhaust out through tiny holes in the bottom, different from film cooling which is dumped into the bell.)

Now this doesnt have anything to do with Saturn even tangentially buuut its cool and I wanna make it :P. Just for information the nozzle exist is 66 inches which works out to just over 1m in game.

 1024px-XLR129P1.png

 

unknown.png?width=353&height=368

Link to comment
Share on other sites

43 minutes ago, OrdinaryKerman said:

How many tris is that?
And how did you make the pipes?

Its about 34k tris (18k verts), on the high side of poly count for ksp but not too unusual for complex engines. Final version will have a bit less as I remove some unwanted loops from pipes.

Which brings me to your other question, the pipes are done using Bezier curves or path curves in blender. Sometimes I trace out a run using individual vertices, bevel the corners, convert to a curve (path) and then add in the geometry. Thats a method that works well for runs that have curves but also lot of straight sections (see below).

unknown.png?width=1008&height=902

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, Zorg said:

Its about 34k tris (18k verts), on the high side of poly count for ksp but not too unusual for complex engines. Final version will have a bit less as I remove some unwanted loops from pipes.

Which brings me to your other question, the pipes are done using Bezier curves or path curves in blender. Sometimes I trace out a run using individual vertices, bevel the corners, convert to a curve (path) and then add in the geometry. Thats a method that works well for runs that have curves but also lot of straight sections (see below).

unknown.png?width=1008&height=902

 

how do you make bezier curves?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 minutes ago, Starhelperdude said:

how do you make bezier curves?

Spoiler

 

 

 

 

 

lots of tutorials out there, the first one should give you the basics of the bezier, the second has some clever alternative methods such as what I mentioned earlier. Play around with the various curve types and you'll soon get a feel for them and understand what works best for in what situations.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, Jcking said:

M-1, but wasn't that for NOVA?

5 hours ago, Zorg said:

   

 

So @TimothyC and I spent quite some time looking into HG-3 through various original source files (as opposed to articles written about it) and as far as we can determine HG-3 was really a paper project. Not even so much a paper engine so much as a study program to examine various possibilities. The fact that there's a paper that suggests a J2 drop in replacement could be produced from some of the ideas studied for HG-3 as well as the influence the program  had on the SSME has given it some notoriety. However the fact remains that this is the best reference image from an original source we could find for HG-3.

Screenshot_2.png?width=276&height=361

Now if someone can find (well sourced) information to the contrary, or more importantly find some useful diagrams we could revisit HG-3.

However when looking at pre SSME American work on staged combustion, we do have the very interesting Pratt and Whitney XLR-129. A 1,100kn staged combustion engine with 465s of vacuum specific impulse that was originally developed for a B52 launched rocket spyplane: Project Isinglass. P&W later then tried to uprate it and try to win the propulsion for shuttle but it didnt work out. However unlike HG-3, actual components were produced and tested and we have reasonably high quality references for it.

I think it will be really fun engine with its axially oriented turbos and extensible transpiration cooled nozzle. (like the M1, the top section of the nozzle is regenerative but the lower section has the turbo exhaust flow through it and exhaust out through tiny holes in the bottom, different from film cooling which is dumped into the bell.)

Now this doesnt have anything to do with Saturn even tangentially buuut its cool and I wanna make it :P. Just for information the nozzle exist is 66 inches which works out to just over 1m in game.

 1024px-XLR129P1.png

 

unknown.png?width=353&height=368

 

Personal opinion.   Make the XLR-129 for anyone who wants to make Shuttle Saturn...   As an alternative engine for an alternative launcher :D  

However a RS-2100 would be a good "here is as close as you are going to get to a REAL HG-3!"   The RS-2100 was part of the SSTO National Aerospace program (that resulted in the X-33)  You will note that the RS-2200 was the chosen engine.   guess what, the RS-2100 is a conventional bell version of that.  And gee gollie they both used modified J-2S turbo-pumps and designed to use the same hookups as J-2S (meaning if you wanted to they could be fitted, space allowing, on the Saturn Rockets using existing J-2 plumbing!

There are drawings of the RS-2100, and there are drawings and photos of the test segment of the RS-2200 (the X-33 was to have 5? RS-2200 segments IIRC.)      Sure, more modern than most Saturn proposals but is a direct evolution of the J-2S and it's combustion cycle owes it's development to HG-3.   So not HG-3 but a spiritual replacement?   Heck I don't know!  I don't want to make you all do work you don't want to do :D
http://www.astronautix.com/r/rs-2100.html

http://www.astronautix.com/x/xrs-2200.html

https://sketchfab.com/MartianDays/collections/rocket-engines

Twin_Linear_Aerospike_XRS-2200_Engine_PL

 

Personally if someone build the RS-2200, I think it should actually be it's predecessor the J-2L which was one of the 1960s J-2X program's theoretical prototypes

 

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

21 minutes ago, derega16 said:

Talk about Engines anyone have any information for F-1 Vac? As some early Nova proposal use F-1 second stage I don't know if it was a thing or not or they just planned to use regular F-1

I think you are referring to the Martin Nova that had 8 F-1s in the 2nd stage?   They were standard F-1s as far as the specs are concerned.  No change to the bell.   But since this was in the early days when Dr Rao's work was not well known... who knows.

 

1 hour ago, biohazard15 said:

This thing is already here, along with, well, entire X-33.

 

While it is true that the X-33 is already in (and it appears to be very VERY well made by Angel-125,     However I will quote right from the OP of that thread:  Parts to make your own X-33 inspired (NOT A REPLICA) SSTO or something more kerbal.

While that mod looks amazing (I am re-building KSP right now to 1.11 and going to try it in my new JNSQ game.)   It isn't a 1 to 1 replica and therefor may not fit in a Saturn :D

 

That being said, I was providing the RS-2200 as a reference as it WAS built... where the RS-2100 was not.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...