[1.12.5] Bluedog Design Bureau - Stockalike Saturn, Apollo, and more! (v1.14.0 "металл" 30/Sep/2024)

[Entr8899]

Is there a way to delete specific B9PS texture switches from the mod?

[Zorg]

2 hours ago, Entr8899 said:

Is there a way to delete specific B9PS texture switches from the mod?

If you look inside a "Paint" folder inside a part family folder and there are subfolders in there like Blue, White etc, you should safely be able to delete any of those sub folders. If you want to delete more granular than that you will need to look at the configs and file paths and work it out yourself.

[Zorg]

The last planned nuclear engine for now. The Los Alamos National Laboratory "Small Engine" concept for the shuttle payload bay. Now on github. 

PS. we now have a new sound effect for all nuclear engines thanks to Katniss which adds an ominous Geiger counter click to the sound loop. 

 

 

Edited July 2, 2022 by Zorg

[Shlyopa]

*shark emojis*

Spoiler

EELV + LDC cryogenic upper stage

 

[CobaltWolf]

Time to get the LRV in game...

https://www.twitch.tv/cobaltwolfy

Edited July 2, 2022 by CobaltWolf

[rockettime03]

If it isn't already in the works, could we get a 90-degree fold style for the EOSS panels?

[Zorg]

14 minutes ago, rockettime03 said:

If it isn't already in the works, could we get a 90-degree fold style for the EOSS panels?

Thats probably something I should have already done. Shouldnt be too hard.

[pTrevTrevs]

8 hours ago, Alpha512 said:

I like it so much! ☆_☆

May i ask for a craft file?

Maybe if I can fix some of the problems with it, but right now it’s not in a state where I would ever consider releasing it. The heatshield and aeroshell in particular are very finicky and cost me a lot of time quickloading to figure out how to make them work.

[Beetlecat]

8 hours ago, CobaltWolf said:

Time to get the LRV in game...

https://www.twitch.tv/cobaltwolfy

Littleeeeeee  Blueeee Moon Buggggyyyyyy!

[MashAndBangers]

Question about the Nuclear engines:  is the reason development on them stopped in real life because whatever performance gain you got was offset by the weight of the engines?

I ask because in game, I'm not seeing a deltaV gain by using them on the SIVB of an Apollo 11 stack.  And yes, I'm switching the fuel tank to pure LH2.  I am getting the DeltaV calculation through Mechjeb, so I hope that's working properly.

The only engine that has a Dv gain is the Lumber Gust II in LH2/LOX mode.

[Rodger]

That's due to the volume needed to hold the LH2. With a similar *sized* tank of LFO, you won't see much gain in dV if any at all. But you will see big mass reductions for similar dV (with bigger tanks), so it makes the job much easier for lower stages. The LH2/LOX mode engines trade propellant density (smaller tanks) for stage total mass)

[alberro+]

[pTrevTrevs]

AAP-1: The Return of the King:

The date is June 30th, 1976. For the first time in over two and a half years, a Saturn V stands on the pad at LC-39. The sight of the King of Thrust once again atop its throne draws crowds from across the nation. Of particular note is the serial number of this Saturn, SA-516. This is the first of a limited number of second-generation Saturn Vs commissioned by NASA in 1971 and incorporates a number of technical improvements and upgrades which the original fifteen flight articles originally lacked, namely uprated engines on all three stages. Such fine details, however, pass over the heads of most spectators as they gather for the launch this morning. In fact, the main attraction this mission holds for most is the fact that it has been timed to coincide with the bicentennial anniversary of the United States. To capitalize on this momentous occasion NASA has organized a massive PR program for the launch of Apollo Applications Program Mission 1 (abbreviated AAP-1), with planned astronaut appearances, television broadcasts from space, and presentations on the future of the American space program. The parking lot of the VAB plays host to a number of artifacts from the Apollo lunar missions, as well as the Pioneer H spacecraft, a Skylab engineering mockup, and the backup flight article for the Viking Mars landers. Patriotic banners decorate the scene and the theme of the Fourth of July extends even to the name chosen for the spacecraft being launched today, Independence.

The actual mission of AAP-1 is relatively simple, nothing so ambitious as the lunar landings of years past. Over the course of a week in orbit, the crew of Independence will perform a series of experiments on topics including microgravity research, geophysical observation, and orbital astronomy, using a surplus Lunar Module converted into a disposable orbital lab. In addition to proving the versatility and resilience of the Apollo hardware, the free-flying mission of AAP-1 will pioneer numerous techniques and procedures to us used later on Skylab Phase 2 and the Space Shuttle.

 

Quote

SA-516 features a slightly different appearance to the previous Saturns. In addition to a revised text pattern on the first two stages (These conformal decals look really great, by the way), it is also the first Saturn to feature the new NASA worm logo on its S-IVB.

Upon reaching orbit, the S-IVB is used to insert the spacecraft into an elliptical orbit. Independence becomes the first American spacecraft since 1973 to venture beyond Low Earth Orbit, in addition to breaking the previous orbital altitude record set during Project Gemini in 1966.

With the LM lab extracted, the crew sets to work powering it up for the first series of operations. The eccentric orbit achieved early in the flight will allow for experiments focused on the Van Allen radiation belts, cosmic rays, and magnetic field activity beyond LEO.

The S-IVB, meanwhile, is directed into a heliocentric orbit to prevent it from interfering with the mission.

The primary instrument on AAP-1's lab is a stellar observation telescope mounted in place of the DPS and APS engines which would normally occupy the centerline axis of the LM. This assembly can be targeted using the CSM's IMU and sextant or through the LM directly with a set of optics mounted in place of the MESA.

The manually-controlled solar astronomy performed on Skylab has exceeded expectations, and it is hoped that stellar and interplanetary astronomy from space can benefit in the same way from human interaction. 

On the third revolution after launch, Independence lowers its orbit to safe altitudes to prevent the crew from being exposed to any more radiation than is necessary.

Using the LM telescope, the crew produces incredibly high-fidelity images of the planets and several prominent stars. Commenting on the telescope's quality, one astronaut facetiously remarked that he could see the Viking 1 spacecraft in orbit around Mars.

As part of the administration's efforts to raise public interest in spaceflight, the mission carries a pallet of experiments designed by university and high school students from across the country. While most of these are essentially copies of experiments launched on previous NASA missions and little actual science is done through them, the student experiment package helps to show Americans that anyone can contribute to space exploration.

 

Quote

At 11:30 CDT on July 4th, 1976, as Independence begins to pass over the continental United States, the crew begins a scheduled television broadcast. The crew provides a brief tour of their spacecraft, focusing on the lab and the differences it has from past LMs, as well as demonstrating some of the activities they have been engaged in during their time in space. Each astronaut gives a brief speech to celebrate the occasion, and voices their hopes for continued American excellence in space and on Earth. A commemorative flag is unfurled inside the LM and the crew enjoys a package of confetti poppers in place of fireworks. They end the broadcast by pointing the camera out the window and treating their viewers to a view of the American eastern seaboard, pointing out landmarks such as New York City, Washington D.C., and Cape Cod.

 

NASA television coverage would then shift to the Viking 1 spacecraft, scheduled to attempt the first landing on Mars that same day. Following a chaotic descent, the lander came to rest at Chryse Planitia to cheers and shouts of jubilation at NASA installations worldwide. The first photos were returned from the surface minutes later, along with telemetry recording the temperature, wind speed, and atmospheric composition of the lander's surroundings.

 

Quote

After a week of ceremonies and experiments, the crew jettisons their lab and prepares for reentry.

Splashdown occurred in the early afternoon in the Pacific Ocean southwest of Hawaii. The spacecraft and crew were recovered by the aircraft carrier USS Independence, specially recalled from service in the Mediterranean to participate in the mission. Curiously, AAP-1's Independence is the only spacecraft to date to have shared the name of its recovery ship.

 

Happy Fourth, to the Americans here; you can bet I'll be celebrating.

[Zorg]

8 hours ago, MashAndBangers said:

Question about the Nuclear engines:  is the reason development on them stopped in real life because whatever performance gain you got was offset by the weight of the engines?

I ask because in game, I'm not seeing a deltaV gain by using them on the SIVB of an Apollo 11 stack.  And yes, I'm switching the fuel tank to pure LH2.  I am getting the DeltaV calculation through Mechjeb, so I hope that's working properly.

The only engine that has a Dv gain is the Lumber Gust II in LH2/LOX mode.

The reason was money. And you wouldn’t see a delta V gain by switching a tank of the same size to LH2. Because a pure LH2 tank of the same volume has much lower density since you don’t have lox/oxidiser and thus lower fuel mass. 
 

the rocket equation after all is concerned with mass not tank size. If for example you have a 50 ton hydrolox tank you need to build a 50 ton lh2 tank to compare 1:1. You would get considerably more delta v but the stage would be much larger. Alternatively you could build a 25 ton lh2 tank to get the same delta V but you have the advantage of it being lighter even if the tank might still be a bit bigger. Since the stage is lighter you get more delta V from the stages below. 
 

above figures are just illustrative. 

Edited July 3, 2022 by Zorg

[Zorg]

9 hours ago, MashAndBangers said:

Question about the Nuclear engines:  is the reason development on them stopped in real life because whatever performance gain you got was offset by the weight of the engines?

I ask because in game, I'm not seeing a deltaV gain by using them on the SIVB of an Apollo 11 stack.  And yes, I'm switching the fuel tank to pure LH2.  I am getting the DeltaV calculation through Mechjeb, so I hope that's working properly.

The only engine that has a Dv gain is the Lumber Gust II in LH2/LOX mode.

Now that I'm back at my PC I thought lets take a look at a practical example since this is an interesting design consideration.

Here we have a standard S4B and a regular J2 with no payload. The stage masses 27.2 tons with 21.67 tons of mixed LH2+Ox propellant (burned mass in the MJ window). With no payload this stage gets roughly 6,500 m/s of delta V

Now for the second case, to get close to the 21 tons of prop with just LH2, we have had to use TWO(!!) maximum length 6m stretch S4B tanks and even had to add an S4 tank on top for another ton of fuel. The rocket equation is working against us as we make a single stage larger and larger. In addition having to haul all the mass of fuel we have the dry weight of those enormous tanks to still haul around. This is why staging is important and why you see multiple stages or drop tanks in NTR based Mars Transfer Vehicles such as from Constellation or the MEM proposals. Note that the stage is overall heavier at 33 tons vs 27 despite similar prop mass and we have gained only about 2300m/s. Kind of doesnt seem worth it at least when you build monolithic stages like this. Also keep in mind KSP tank dry masses are higher than IRL making this worse. 

Now lets look at a more interesting scenario

With just a 3m extension an all LH2 S4B with NERVA full flow slightly exceeds the original hydrolox S4B delta V with with 6,600 m/s. And yet the total stage mass even with the much heavier NERVA engine is an incredible 13.7 tons vs 27.2 tons. The stage is bigger yes but much much lighter than the original S4b. You would get a lot more performance from the stages below it in a launch vehicle or simply be able to use a smaller launch vehicle altogether to put it into orbit.

Keeping the above in mind now lets look at a final scenario and the benefit of staging even for a space tug setup. Here we have a 3m stretch S4b and a pair of drop tanks which I built from S4 stages (couldn't surface attach S4B tanks to the decouplers, not sure if that's a balance decision or mistake, I think the later since cobalt is also making radial docking ports for lashing stages together like this in orbit)

Anyway similar to the 1st and 2nd scenarios we again have 21 tons of fuel but we have the benefit of ditching dead weight. Compared to scenario 2 we have a more complex multistage setup but total delta V has jumped for similar dry and wet mass from 8,800m/s to 11,000m/s. And compared to the original no.1 scenario we have gone from 6,500 m/s to 11,000m/s

So building nuclear stages and getting the most out of them requires some thought and presents a lot of challenges. Note the low TWR and very long burn times. We can compensate by clustering more engines but the engines themselves have much worse TWR than hydrolox engines so dry mass starts adding up. Its up to you to find the best balance between performance, stage complexity (including operational complexity such as on orbit assembly) and thrust to weight/burn times

 

PS. on the subject of TWR, I will add a separate patch to BDB extras for NTR thrust buff to double it. Separate from the regular one in case maybe you dont want to use the regular one but just dont have the patience for a 30minute NTR burn  

Edited July 3, 2022 by Zorg

[DaveyJ576]

3 hours ago, pTrevTrevs said:

AAP-1: The Return of the King:

The date is June 30th, 1976. For the first time in over two and a half years, a Saturn V stands on the pad at LC-39. The sight of the King of Thrust once again atop its throne draws crowds from across the nation. Of particular note is the serial number of this Saturn, SA-516. This is the first of a limited number of second-generation Saturn Vs commissioned by NASA in 1971 and incorporates a number of technical improvements and upgrades which the original fifteen flight articles originally lacked, namely uprated engines on all three stages. Such fine details, however, pass over the heads of most spectators as they gather for the launch this morning. In fact, the main attraction this mission holds for most is the fact that it has been timed to coincide with the bicentennial anniversary of the United States. To capitalize on this momentous occasion NASA has organized a massive PR program for the launch of Apollo Applications Program Mission 1 (abbreviated AAP-1), with planned astronaut appearances, television broadcasts from space, and presentations on the future of the American space program. The parking lot of the VAB plays host to a number of artifacts from the Apollo lunar missions, as well as the Pioneer H spacecraft, a Skylab engineering mockup, and the backup flight article for the Viking Mars landers. Patriotic banners decorate the scene and the theme of the Fourth of July extends even to the name chosen for the spacecraft being launched today, Independence.

The actual mission of AAP-1 is relatively simple, nothing so ambitious as the lunar landings of years past. Over the course of a week in orbit, the crew of Independence will perform a series of experiments on topics including microgravity research, geophysical observation, and orbital astronomy, using a surplus Lunar Module converted into a disposable orbital lab. In addition to proving the versatility and resilience of the Apollo hardware, the free-flying mission of AAP-1 will pioneer numerous techniques and procedures to us used later on Skylab Phase 2 and the Space Shuttle.

 

 

 

 

Happy Fourth, to the Americans here; you can bet I'll be celebrating.

Excellent work. Your post, and my own runthroughs on KSP really drive home what could have been, if the people of the United States had possessed the will to do so and had not gotten wrapped up in political and social drama. Apollo/Saturn was wonderfully adaptive and it had an incredible amount of unrealized potential. On this 4th of July weekend I look forward to great things to come, but I also look back wistfully at the “future” that didn’t happen. My thanks go to the BDB dev team @CobaltWolf, @Zorg, @Invaderchaos, and the rest for giving us the ability to visualize this different path. Have a fun and safe weekend everyone!

[MashAndBangers]

3 hours ago, Zorg said:

So building nuclear stages and getting the most out of them requires some thought and presents a lot of challenges. Note the low TWR and very long burn times. We can compensate by clustering more engines but the engines themselves have much worse TWR than hydrolox engines so dry mass starts adding up. Its up to you to find the best balance between performance, stage complexity (including operational complexity such as on orbit assembly) and thrust to weight/burn times

 

PS. on the subject of TWR, I will add a separate patch to BDB extras for NTR thrust buff to double it. Separate from the regular one in case maybe you dont want to use the regular one but just dont have the patience for a 30minute NTR burn  

Thank you very much for this info.  I had forgotten how much of a lightweight Hydrogen is!

[DaveyJ576]

4 hours ago, Zorg said:

Now that I'm back at my PC I thought lets take a look at a practical example since this is an interesting design consideration.

Here we have a standard S4B and a regular J2 with no payload. The stage masses 27.2 tons with 21.67 tons of mixed LH2+Ox propellant (burned mass in the MJ window). With no payload this stage gets roughly 6,500 m/s of delta V

Now for the second case, to get close to the 21 tons of prop with just LH2, we have had to use TWO(!!) maximum length 6m stretch S4B tanks and even had to add an S4 tank on top for another ton of fuel. The rocket equation is working against us as we make a single stage larger and larger. In addition having to haul all the mass of fuel we have the dry weight of those enormous tanks to still haul around. This is why staging is important and why you see multiple stages or drop tanks in NTR based Mars Transfer Vehicles such as from Constellation or the MEM proposals. Note that the stage is overall heavier at 33 tons vs 27 despite similar prop mass and we have gained only about 2300m/s. Kind of doesnt seem worth it at least when you build monolithic stages like this. Also keep in mind KSP tank dry masses are higher than IRL making this worse. 

Now lets look at a more interesting scenario

With just a 3m extension an all LH2 S4B with NERVA full flow slightly exceeds the original hydrolox S4B delta V with with 6,600 m/s. And yet the total stage mass even with the much heavier NERVA engine is an incredible 13.7 tons vs 27.2 tons. The stage is bigger yes but much much lighter than the original S4b. You would get a lot more performance from the stages below it in a launch vehicle or simply be able to use a smaller launch vehicle altogether to put it into orbit.

Keeping the above in mind now lets look at a final scenario and the benefit of staging even for a space tug setup. Here we have a 3m stretch S4b and a pair of drop tanks which I built from S4 stages (couldn't surface attach S4B tanks to the decouplers, not sure if that's a balance decision or mistake, I think the later since cobalt is also making radial docking ports for lashing stages together like this in orbit)

Anyway similar to the 1st and 2nd scenarios we again have 21 tons of fuel but we have the benefit of ditching dead weight. Compared to scenario 2 we have a more complex multistage setup but total delta V has jumped for similar dry and wet mass from 8,800m/s to 11,000m/s. And compared to the original no.1 scenario we have gone from 6,500 m/s to 11,000m/s

So building nuclear stages and getting the most out of them requires some thought and presents a lot of challenges. Note the low TWR and very long burn times. We can compensate by clustering more engines but the engines themselves have much worse TWR than hydrolox engines so dry mass starts adding up. Its up to you to find the best balance between performance, stage complexity (including operational complexity such as on orbit assembly) and thrust to weight/burn times

 

PS. on the subject of TWR, I will add a separate patch to BDB extras for NTR thrust buff to double it. Separate from the regular one in case maybe you dont want to use the regular one but just dont have the patience for a 30minute NTR burn  

This would be excellent info for inclusion in @Friznit’s Wiki guide. I use it all the time. It is an awesome resource! 

[zakkpaz]

I wanted to bodge together a Systemheat patch for the new skylab radiators but I don't know how to set it up so the different subtypes have different patches.

 

is there a guide for that or anything?

Edited July 3, 2022 by zakkpaz

[Zorg]

6 minutes ago, zakkpaz said:

I wanted to bodge together a Systemheat patch for the new skylab radiators but I don't know how to set it up so the different subtypes have different patches?

Something like this

@MODULE[ModuleB9PartSwitch]:HAS[#moduleID[meshSwitchSide]]
{
	@SUBTYPE[Double]
	{

		MODULE
		{
			IDENTIFIER
			{
				name = ModuleSystemHeat(or whatever module you want to change)
			}
			DATA
			{
					........all the stuff you want to change in the module you're targeting

			}
		}
	}
}

 

[G'th]

4 hours ago, MashAndBangers said:

Thank you very much for this info.  I had forgotten how much of a lightweight Hydrogen is!

Something else to keep in mind if you're using the stock Delta V calculator that it won't display the right values if you don't set it to vacuum. The way it calculates things it assumes you're at sea level by default and naturally these engines aren't going to do much at the bottom of Earth's Kerbin's gravity well. 

Edited July 3, 2022 by G'th

[guest10985]

Is the LRV on GitHub yet?

 

[CobaltWolf]

3 hours ago, guest10985 said:

Is the LRV on GitHub yet?

No, not yet.

[zakkpaz]

5 hours ago, Zorg said:

Something like this

@MODULE[ModuleB9PartSwitch]:HAS[#moduleID[meshSwitchSide]]
{
	@SUBTYPE[Double]
	{

		MODULE
		{
			IDENTIFIER
			{
				name = ModuleSystemHeat(or whatever module you want to change)
			}
			DATA
			{
					........all the stuff you want to change in the module you're targeting

			}
		}
	}
}

 

I think I'm doing something wrong here, I keep geting a error message.

Quote

Initialization errors on ModuleB9PartSwitch (moduleID=' meshSwitchSide') on part

bluedog.skylab.powerModule.radiator subtype 'Double'

 

Could not find matching module 

Could not find matching module 

 

Initialization errors on ModuleB9PartSwitch (moduleID=' meshSwitchSide') on part

bluedog.skylab.powerModule.radiator subtype 'Double'

 

Could not find matching module 

Could not find matching module 

heres the .cfg i made

Quote

@PART[bluedog_skylab_powerModule_radiator_fixed|bluedog_skylab_powerModule_radiator]:FOR[SystemHeat]
{

  MODULE
  {
    name = ModuleSystemHeat
    volume = 0.023
    moduleID = default
    iconName = Icon_Radiator
    ignoreTemperature = true
  }

  @MODULE[ModuleActiveRadiator]
  {
    @name = ModuleSystemHeatRadiator
    moduleID = radiator
    // ModuleSystemHeat instance to link to
    systemHeatModuleID = default
    scalarModuleID = heat
    maxTempAnimation = 1400

    // option: use deterministic temperatures
    // Power radiated per temperature
    temperatureCurve
    {
      key = 0 0
      key = 1000 25
    }
    // area for convection
    convectiveArea = 9
  }
  !MODULE[ModuleAnimateHeat] {}
  
  MODULE
  {
    name = ModuleSystemHeatColorAnimator
    moduleID = heat
    useRate = false
    animRate = 1
    shaderProperty = _EmissiveColor
    toggleInEditor = false
    toggleInFlight = false
    redCurve
    {
      key = 0 1
      key = 1 1
    }
    greenCurve
    {
      key = 0 1
      key = 1 1
    }
    blueCurve
    {
      key = 0 1
      key = 1 1
    }
    alphaCurve
    {
      key = 0 0
      key = 1 1
    }
  }
}
@MODULE[ModuleB9PartSwitch]:HAS[#moduleID[meshSwitchSide]]
{
    @SUBTYPE[Double]
    {

        MODULE
        {
            IDENTIFIER
            {
                name = ModuleActiveRadiator
            }
            DATA
            {
                @convectiveArea = 18

            }
        }
        MODULE
        {
            IDENTIFIER
            {
                name = ModuleSystemHeat
            }
            DATA
            {
                @volume = 0.055

            }
        }
    }

 

[Galileo chiu]

Do you guys think you will add parts for Direct Apollo?