[1.12.5] Bluedog Design Bureau - Stockalike Saturn, Apollo, and more! (v1.14.0 "металл" 30/Sep/2024)

[GoldForest]

Well, the BDB team is apparently planning something secretly big for BDB, as they've hinted at. I can't think of what it might be, but sounding rockets could be on the menu. 
Any of the Nova Rockets are also on the table if I had to guess. Not the C-8. C-8 is a Saturn, not a Nova. 
There's also the possibility of getting a Mars program part set, like MER. (If I recall the name correctly)

Let's see... yeah, I got nothing else. 

Sound rockets, Nova or MER. 

[CobaltWolf]

17 minutes ago, GoldForest said:

Well, the BDB team is apparently planning something secretly big for BDB, as they've hinted at. I can't think of what it might be, but sounding rockets could be on the menu. 
Any of the Nova Rockets are also on the table if I had to guess. Not the C-8. C-8 is a Saturn, not a Nova. 
There's also the possibility of getting a Mars program part set, like MER. (If I recall the name correctly)

Let's see... yeah, I got nothing else. 

Sound rockets, Nova or MER. 

… if I’m honest I was more teasing for the sake of it, rather than having any sort of plan. 
 

I have actually started putting time into modding again for the first time in 2 or 3 months so maybe I’ll have something to show off by Christmas. My time on the Space Coast definitely reminded me a lot about why I love this stuff so much. 
 

On 11/23/2024 at 10:54 AM, septemberWaves said:

I would suspect that Rogallo wing enthusiasts would not settle for anything less than a proper control surface.

I was referring to the historical Gemini parachute setup, which did feature a vertical>horizontal transition. 
 

 

3 hours ago, DaveyJ576 said:

There are some mods that provide you with these rockets. Wacapella and CNAR being two. I use them both alongside BDB and they are fun to fly. They are well done, but not quite as polished and refined as BDB. I have also kitbashed my own sounding rockets of the Viking Program  (not related to the Mars lander). I used several parts mods for them and they look and fly okay, but this would be another nice BDB addition.

As an aside, it would be wonderful if the BDB dev team could adopt the Alternate Apollo mod. This is an excellent mod that fits inside the BDB world quite nicely. I especially like the 1962 “Bug” LM. The original creator has been silent for some time, and it could use some BDB style tender loving care.

At the end of the day, I am grateful that the BDB team has completed what they have. It is all amazing. 

I could see doing like, one sounding rocket as a dedicated “first career launch” type thing. 
 

As for Alternate Apollo, yeah it would be neat. I also haven’t heard from McDouble in quite some time. The Bug LM is hard because none of the concepts or artwork are quite detailed enough to base KSP parts off of. If I recall the one in that mod is pretty barren. I do love the D2 though. I have always wanted to make a Martin 410 but it’s such a weird shape and would have limited compatibility with other parts.

 

53 minutes ago, The Dressian Exploder said:

If the attention of the BDB team ever turns to sounding rockets,  I wonder if they'd consider having a go at making rockoons; they were one of the more interesting parts of early spaceflight.

I don’t know if there’s a good way to make rockoons without more plugins?

[GoldForest]

23 minutes ago, CobaltWolf said:

… if I’m honest I was more teasing for the sake of it, rather than having any sort of plan. 
 

I have actually started putting time into modding again for the first time in 2 or 3 months so maybe I’ll have something to show off by Christmas. My time on the Space Coast definitely reminded me a lot about why I love this stuff so much. 

"I have something big planned!" 
"What is it?" 
"I'll tell you when I know!" 

Also, IIRC, you did say you were considering a few of the Nova rockets for KSP 2... but... yeah... 

...

How about Nova in KSP 1? Please? Like, at least ONE or TWO rockets per company? 

Edited Tuesday at 07:06 PM by GoldForest

[biohazard15]

1 hour ago, CobaltWolf said:

I could see doing like, one sounding rocket as a dedicated “first career launch” type thing.

If you ever put that on vote, I'd vote for Bumper\Corporal. Basically adopting\remaking CNAR, possibly adding some extra stuff (such as: V-2 launch stand, various paintjobs and tank variants to recreate V-2\A-8\R-1\R-2, A-4b wings, A-6 piloted variant, Project Hermes winglets etc)

[Hank Kerman]

While we are on the subject of smol rockets, I would like to see NOTSNIK. Tried kitbashing one together a few weeks ago and it was abysmal.

[davidy12]

8 hours ago, GoldForest said:

There's also the possibility of getting a Mars program part set, like MER. (If I recall the name correctly)

Having an AAP Mars Program... I'd say cap it off with that. Plus, not a lot of stuff to retrofit, just make a MEM (or DEM).

[GoldForest]

I'm kind of curious as to what everyone would choose in terms of Nova rockets, so let's have a poll. 

 

Let's start with the NASA Nova designs. Choose your top 3 designs that you would like to see in BDB. Put them in order too, so your top pick in number 1 and your bottom pick in number 3.

Spoiler

novanasa.gif (640×349)

Alright, now on to Martian Marietta Basic Designs (MMBD). Choose your top 3, again putting them in order.

Spoiler

novamm.gif (640×383)

Martian Marietta Advanced Designs (MMAD). Choose top 2, in order.

Spoiler

novammad.gif (575×315)

General Dynamics, choose 2, in order.

Spoiler

novammgd.gif (641×351)

Douglas Studies, choose 2, in order

Spoiler

novadac.gif (641×381)

 

For me, I would choose:

NASA: 1) 5 4m Solids 59K, 2) 9 F-1 59K, 3) 5 F-1 Nuc 66K

MMBD: 1) 34 4 L6H 532K, 2) 14A 4 8M Solid 482K, 3) 1C 18 F-1A 444K

MMAD: 1) T10RE-1 427K, 2) S10E-2 582K

GD: 1) Nova GE-D 4 8m solids 459K (Because it launches like a Titan. The main engines are lit via hot staging IIRC), 2) Nova GD-H 5 LOX/LH2 455k

DS: 1) ROOST 4 LOX/LH2 455K (Because SSTO, rocket style), DAC Helios 8 LOX/LH2 Nuc 455K

[FabioofSpace]

Hey, I heard this mod is incompatible with real fuels, is that true? Cause when I search on the BDB github I can find like 3 mentions of real fuels. Asking since I'm having problems with the Inon II tank since it doesn't allow me to switch to hydrolox and instead it seems to be using hydrogen and oxidizer. I don't know what to do and the Real-Fuel: Stockalike RF Configs seems to have not been updated since 2019. Meanwhile Real Fuel Stock hasn't been updated since 2020 and is only available for version 1.10 of ksp. What do I do for making the Inon II stage be compatible with real fuels? I am playing with JNSQ

Edited Wednesday at 07:10 AM by FabioofSpace

[Zorg]

1 minute ago, FabioofSpace said:

Hey, I heard this mod is incompatible with real fuels, is that true? Cause when I search on the BDB github I can find like 3 mentions of real fuels. Asking since I'm having problems with the Inon II tank since it doesn't allow me to switch to hydrolox and instead it seems to be using hydrogen and oxidizer. I don't know what to do and the Real-Fuel: Stockalike RF Configs seems to have not been updated since 2019. Meanwhile Real Fuel Stock hasn't been updated since 2020 and is only available for version 1.10 of ksp. What do I do for making the Inon II stage be compatible with real fuels?

We don't provide compatibility with real fuels so its up to whoever looks after realfuels-stock to maintain compatibility. If it hasn't been updated then you might be out of luck unless you're willing to write your own configs. Im not familiar with RF configs but you could study other configs inside realfuels stock and work it out.

[FabioofSpace]

3 minutes ago, Zorg said:

We don't provide compatibility with real fuels so its up to whoever looks after realfuels-stock to maintain compatibility. If it hasn't been updated then you might be out of luck unless you're willing to write your own configs. Im not familiar with RF configs but you could study other configs inside realfuels stock and work it out.

Understood, at least I have a backup save so that I don't have to worry about having messed up my savefile

[CobaltWolf]

21 hours ago, GoldForest said:

Also, IIRC, you did say you were considering a few of the Nova rockets for KSP 2... but... yeah...

How about Nova in KSP 1? Please? Like, at least ONE or TWO rockets per company? 

That was more me musing on how the scale in KSP2 has a larger upper end, so there could conceivably be uses for super super super heavy launch vehicles for interplanetary crafts. I still maintain there isn't really a reason for something that large in KSP1. There's other problems with doing Nova class stuff - not a lot of info available since they're so speculative, the level of detail would have to be low due to the size, stuff like that. I'm definitely not doing Nova, whether it's C-8 or the bigger ones.

[Pappystein]

12 hours ago, GoldForest said:

I'm kind of curious as to what everyone would choose in terms of Nova rockets, so let's have a poll. 

 

Let's start with the NASA Nova designs. Choose your top 3 designs that you would like to see in BDB. Put them in order too, so your top pick in number 1 and your bottom pick in number 3.

  Hide contents

novanasa.gif (640×349)

Alright, now on to Martian Marietta Basic Designs (MMBD). Choose your top 3, again putting them in order.

  Hide contents

novamm.gif (640×383)

Martian Marietta Advanced Designs (MMAD). Choose top 2, in order.

  Hide contents

novammad.gif (575×315)

General Dynamics, choose 2, in order.

  Hide contents

novammgd.gif (641×351)

Douglas Studies, choose 2, in order

  Hide contents

novadac.gif (641×381)

 

For me, I would choose:

NASA: 1) 5 4m Solids 59K, 2) 9 F-1 59K, 3) 5 F-1 Nuc 66K

MMBD: 1) 34 4 L6H 532K, 2) 14A 4 8M Solid 482K, 3) 1C 18 F-1A 444K

MMAD: 1) T10RE-1 427K, 2) S10E-2 582K

GD: 1) Nova GE-D 4 8m solids 459K (Because it launches like a Titan. The main engines are lit via hot staging IIRC), 2) Nova GD-H 5 LOX/LH2 455k

DS: 1) ROOST 4 LOX/LH2 455K (Because SSTO, rocket style), DAC Helios 8 LOX/LH2 Nuc 455K

GoldForest Demands thousands of new Parts

Cobalt Wolf Thumbs up...

GoldForest lists 10 Rockets to build.......

Cobalt Wolf was never heard from again...  

I mean I am joking here but WOW that is a list.     Everything except F-1 engines would need to be new to make most all of those.   Personally I would pick the DAC Helios because it is smaller and looks to comprise fewer parts.  But that in itself is an issues because of not being really usable as anything else.

Personally I think 1 or two sounding rockets would be Ideal more than NOVA (don't get me wrong here I like quite a few of the Nova concepts presented GoldForest.)   But Reference drawings, something the BDB team tends to try to rely on to make their amazing work are few and far FAR between for any of the Nova Concepts.      Most of the drawings on them are from Astronautix which in itself makes them questionable for accuracy.  

If Sounding rockets are something that the team takes on I know a REAL good set of reference drawings/photos for the Talos Booster in use from the early 1970s to the 2000s+.

https://www.okieboat.com/Booster History.html

 

Edited Wednesday at 06:58 PM by Pappystein

[Quinby Kerman]

@CobaltWolf I have an idea on how to split up BDB

Basically, have one for each family of LV's (i.e. Saturn, Vulcan/Delta, etc.) Then have some for each class of spacecraft (including things like landers and variants) (i.e. Apollo, Gemini, etc.) some way to split up probes (I would do Earth probes/interplanetary probes) Then there would be group for space stations (MOL and Skylab/Spacelab) Then "packs" of spacecraft and associated with them (i.e. Apollo + Saturn + Skylab) 

This is more of a framework and may create instances of duplicate parts, but that's my basic idea.

[Zorg]

1 hour ago, Quinby Kerman said:

@CobaltWolf I have an idea on how to split up BDB

Basically, have one for each family of LV's (i.e. Saturn, Vulcan/Delta, etc.) Then have some for each class of spacecraft (including things like landers and variants) (i.e. Apollo, Gemini, etc.) some way to split up probes (I would do Earth probes/interplanetary probes) Then there would be group for space stations (MOL and Skylab/Spacelab) Then "packs" of spacecraft and associated with them (i.e. Apollo + Saturn + Skylab) 

This is more of a framework and may create instances of duplicate parts, but that's my basic idea.

We know how to split up BDB. In principle its simple enough to have a core mod containing the plugin and most of the patches and such plus a bunch of parts expansions since almost every folder in /Parts is independent as it is. The issue is more having the mental energy in order to deal with the can of worms that opens up. Just as one example say users on CKAN who dont follow the forums threads not understanding enough to download the expansions after the big split update drops and then finding their inevitably not backed saves broken due to 90% of the parts being gone and other things of that nature. Then tricky decisions as to what parts if any should be inherited by the core mod on CKAN and spacedock are also things to deal.

There is an argument to be made it would be beneficial in the long run and we should just rip off the bandaid and do it. But it would cause a lot of disruption in the meantime we're currently not prepared to deal with it.

I would ask to drop this topic for now since I don't really want to invite a suggestion box on this topic at the present.

[The Dressian Exploder]

I think the last thing we need is more speculation on what the new stuff the BDB team is cooking is, but another possibility I havent seen mentioned might be the Integrated Program Plan. I'd definitely be super interested in seeing where they take it, especially with stuff like the early shuttle designs.

[Quinby Kerman]

20 hours ago, Zorg said:

We know how to split up BDB. In principle its simple enough to have a core mod containing the plugin and most of the patches and such plus a bunch of parts expansions since almost every folder in /Parts is independent as it is. The issue is more having the mental energy in order to deal with the can of worms that opens up. Just as one example say users on CKAN who dont follow the forums threads not understanding enough to download the expansions after the big split update drops and then finding their inevitably not backed saves broken due to 90% of the parts being gone and other things of that nature. Then tricky decisions as to what parts if any should be inherited by the core mod on CKAN and spacedock are also things to deal.

There is an argument to be made it would be beneficial in the long run and we should just rip off the bandaid and do it. But it would cause a lot of disruption in the meantime we're currently not prepared to deal with it.

I would ask to drop this topic for now since I don't really want to invite a suggestion box on this topic at the present.

ok

[CobaltWolf]

1 hour ago, The Dressian Exploder said:

I think the last thing we need is more speculation on what the new stuff the BDB team is cooking is, but another possibility I havent seen mentioned might be the Integrated Program Plan. I'd definitely be super interested in seeing where they take it, especially with stuff like the early shuttle designs.

Yeah, I think all three of us have ideas for what we want to do next. Just none of us have a lot of time to work on things as of late. 
 

I’m not even saying I necessarily mind suggestions, but remember that just because someone or even many people like an idea, doesn’t mean it sparks inspiration for any of us. 
 

In other news, today im thankful for all the people that still hang around and post and share their love of BDB here. Despite the forum outages, the uncertain fate of the game, and the increasingly spotty participation of us on the team. We’re not going anywhere. Cheers. 

[Blufor878]

41 minutes ago, CobaltWolf said:

Yeah, I think all three of us have ideas for what we want to do next. Just none of us have a lot of time to work on things as of late. 
 

I’m not even saying I necessarily mind suggestions, but remember that just because someone or even many people like an idea, doesn’t mean it sparks inspiration for any of us. 
 

In other news, today im thankful for all the people that still hang around and post and share their love of BDB here. Despite the forum outages, the uncertain fate of the game, and the increasingly spotty participation of us on the team. We’re not going anywhere. Cheers. 

Here here. Oh, and Happy Thanksgiving for those of y'all stateside!

[Zorg]

3 hours ago, CobaltWolf said:

Just none of us have a lot of time to work on things as of late. 

On that note its probably worth providing a little update from my side. Although Boring Crew Services v1 is out I'm still on that little side project as I'm about to start the IVA for that. I expect to be super busy in January so I dont think I'll be back at BDB until around February really. A few pending Atlas items plus more PBR conversions are definitely planned. New projects arent final but I have a couple of ideas but we'll see eventually. Like Cobalt said, we're pretty far from done

 

[Quinby Kerman]

I've noticed that the IVA on the RKPV-L Lab is offset from where the IVA should be, creating an overly long connection to docked craft, and a very strange look when using otherwise.