Kerbfleet: A Jool Odyssey-CHAPTER 22 pg 2: Yet >another< narrative device!

[KSK]

  On 6/8/2018 at 7:47 AM, FireKerb said:

If a child threatens another child with harassment, even if the other child is bullying them, would you consider that child innocent?

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The key word there is 'child' I think. It also depends very much on the age of the child. 

One child of my acquaintance gets angry with his sibling and threatens to kill her. But 'kill' in this context just means he's really, really mad and reaching for the biggest, baddest threat he can conceive of to express his anger. It doesn't mean that he literally plans to find a kitchen knife and stab her in her sleep, for example. Despite all the big words, the concept of, and ramifications of, deliberately ending somebody's life have never occurred to him.

So in that sense, yes he's innocent.

More formally, it's why (in English law at least) we have the concept of actus reus (the criminal act) and mens rea (the criminal mind). Both are required for a person to be guilty. Or, looking this up on Wikipedia (because I recalled the general concept but not the fine details). 

"The terms actus reus and mens rea developed in English Law are derived from the principle stated by Edward Coke namely, actus non facit reum nisi mens sit rea, which means: "an act does not make a person guilty unless (their) mind is also guilty"; hence, the general test of guilt is one that requires proof of fault, culpability or blameworthiness both in thought and action."

@Dman979 In a similar vein, I would say that Kenlie has very much crossed his Rubicon to the point where he now has mens rea. The crucial thing is whether he would also be able to engage in the corresponding actus reus. Fortunately for him the Kerbulans didn't call his bluff and force him to take that irretrievable step. And provided that kerbalkind as a whole never takes that step either then they will not fall but will merely be a sadder and wiser species.

And wasn't that a cheerful post for a Friday morning. 

Edited June 8, 2018 by KSK

[Dman979]

Good analysis, @KSK. I'm reminded of a scene from 12 Angry Men, where [spoilers ahead!] there is a debate about the meaning of "I'm gonna kill you!"

Don't open the spoiler unless you want to ruin a terrific, classic film!

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Earlier in the movie, the jurors are debating a piece of evidence from one of the witnesses, who said that the defendant yelled "I'll kill him!" during a fight. The angry juror (who is accused of being an executioner in this clip) says that the defendant must have intended to kill his father, because the words should be taken at face value. Later on, there is an argument about the potential innocence of the defendant, and an assumption a witness made. Take a look:

 

 

[KSK]

  On 6/8/2018 at 2:35 PM, Dman979 said:

Good analysis, @KSK. I'm reminded of a scene from 12 Angry Men, where [spoilers ahead!] there is a debate about the meaning of "I'm gonna kill you!"

Don't open the spoiler unless you want to ruin a terrific, classic film!

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Thanks!

I'll skip the spoilers because - well spoilers - but I completely agree with you that Kenlie is a changed man from the one we knew. But isn't that the essence of a good character driven story - that those characters change during the story, and not necessarily for the better or the happier?

Swapping genres for a moment, I'm wondering if he'll end up being a Frodo-like character who saves the world but changes too much in the process to ever again be entirely comfortable in that world. And poor Kenlie doesn't have the Grey Havens to escape to.

[Thedrelle]

  On 6/8/2018 at 6:01 PM, KSK said:

Thanks!

I'll skip the spoilers because - well spoilers - but I completely agree with you that Kenlie is a changed man from the one we knew. But isn't that the essence of a good character driven story - that those characters change during the story, and not necessarily for the better or the happier?

Swapping genres for a moment, I'm wondering if he'll end up being a Frodo-like character who saves the world but changes too much in the process to ever again be entirely comfortable in that world. And poor Kenlie doesn't have the Grey Havens to escape to.

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so true. I can see that. I could also see everyone being afraid of him come the end. 

[Wildcat111]

  On 5/19/2018 at 7:40 PM, Kuzzter said:

"To the pain..."

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That reminds me of a certain movie...

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[Guest]

I suppose I've been away enough (again) that some folks are wondering what happened to me. Remember this?

  On 2/17/2018 at 9:29 PM, Kuzzter said:

Well, you're part right in that the thing I'm working on will be submitted to the US government... just a different Department. 

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Turns out that whatever that thing was, that Department actually decided to fund it. All I can tell you is that it involves things that are very tall and might help save humanity. But TOTALLY not rockets. Really! 

And so, yeah I was busy before but now I'm really busy--Kerbfleet will continue when it continues, as it always (more or less) has.  

[Just Jim]

  On 7/2/2018 at 12:31 PM, Kuzzter said:

I suppose I've been away enough (again) that some folks are wondering what happened to me. Remember this?

Turns out that whatever that thing was, that Department actually decided to fund it. All I can tell you is that it involves things that are very tall and might help save humanity. But TOTALLY not rockets. Really! 

And so, yeah I was busy before but now I'm really busy--Kerbfleet will continue when it continues, as it always (more or less) has.  

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Awesome!!!

I mean, yeah, it sucks a little you won't have as much time for Kerbfleet. But at least this is a good real life thing, not a bad one, from the sounds of it, and that's really cool! Congrats on whatever it is... 

[roboslacker]

  On 7/2/2018 at 12:31 PM, Kuzzter said:

Turns out that whatever that thing was, that Department actually decided to fund it. All I can tell you is that it involves things that are very tall and might help save humanity. But TOTALLY not rockets. Really! 

 

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Wind turbines?

[Zhetaan]

  On 7/2/2018 at 12:31 PM, Kuzzter said:

All I can tell you is that it involves things that are very tall and might help save humanity. But TOTALLY not rockets. Really!

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  On 7/2/2018 at 1:25 PM, roboslacker said:

Wind turbines?

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I was thinking Michael Jordan.  Space Jam is that much closer to reality....

[Starhawk]

Well, I just finished catching up on the last two years of Kerbfleet's latest saga.  I really missed these while I was away.

Wow this is a great story!  There's just so much to love here.  I'm enjoying the philosophical facet of the tale most of all.

There's too much to respond to and I haven't even read the the comments yet, just the comics.  I will say...

R.I.P. Gregmore - you are remembered.

Thanks, Kuzz.

Happy, thrilled, terrified, sad, filled with wonder, thoughtful landings!

 

[SuperMiiBrother]

This story died.

RIP.

[Chemp]

  On 2/17/2019 at 1:12 AM, SuperMiiBrother said:

This story died.

RIP.

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Don't bet on it. Kuzzter is still active, and although he's been very busy, I still think he wants to share the message that's at the core of this story.

[Just Jim]

  On 2/17/2019 at 3:13 AM, Chemp said:

Don't bet on it. Kuzzter is still active, and although he's been very busy, I still think he wants to share the message that's at the core of this story.

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Agreed. Kuzzter got a really, really, good job last year. I don't know the details, but I know it cut back on his free time a lot. 
But I do believe he plans on finishing when he can.

[KerballingSmasher]

Wow... @Kuzzter I now understand why everyone says that this story is a must-read for all komic-book (that's what I call this style of writing :P) fans!

 

This is great, and I hope you finish it!

[Vagrant203]

"Why wasn't that me?"

Gatdang Kenlie. You went right for the psyche.

[spacegamer7]

mmm

tomato icecream minimus DLC...

[TwoCalories]

How this mission report was left unfinished on the most crucial moment keeps me awake at night...

[Just Jim]

  On 9/25/2023 at 4:03 PM, TwoCalories said:

How this mission report was left unfinished on the most crucial moment keeps me awake at night...

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@Kuzzter moved on to bigger and better things. I don't really remember the details, but I think he got a new job, or something like that.

I'm hoping some day he'll return to finish this KSP masterpiece.

[Angelo Kerman]

Having nostalgia (and some depression) back in the height of the pandemic, I built a near-replica of the Intrepid using modern KSP:

Sort of like a refit of the Intrepid-class in the Star Trek The Motion Picture era. Maybe someday we'll see the exciting conclusion to this story line. Meanwhile, many of my KSP 1 mods feature Kuzzter Instruments, a powerhouse computer manufacturer named after @Kuzzter

More screenshots: https://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/topic/27292-what-did-you-do-in-ksp1-today/page/2335/#comment-4036671

[TwoCalories]

  On 10/28/2023 at 6:30 PM, Angelo Kerman said:

Having nostalgia (and some depression) back in the height of the pandemic, I built a near-replica of the Intrepid using modern KSP:

Sort of like a refit of the Intrepid-class in the Star Trek The Motion Picture era. Maybe someday we'll see the exciting conclusion to this story line. Meanwhile, many of my KSP 1 mods feature Kuzzter Instruments, a powerhouse computer manufacturer named after @Kuzzter

More screenshots: https://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/topic/27292-what-did-you-do-in-ksp1-today/page/2335/#comment-4036671

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Epic! Does it have all the extra spacecraft?

Edited October 28, 2023 by TwoCalories

[Angelo Kerman]

  On 10/28/2023 at 11:48 PM, TwoCalories said:

Epic! Does it have all the extra spacecraft?

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TY! Voyager didn't have the auxiliary spacecraft since I couldn't get good enough pictures of them to replicate their designs. The same can be said for the probes. My "refit" version would need new craft. If I were to update the Voyager today, I'd use my Buffalo 2 mod in place of Kerbal Planetary Base Systems and replace the engines with gravitic motors from Kerbal Flying Saucers. I might give her a warp drive from Blueshift as well.

It makes me think of a what if: What if kerbals from a different save received the "historical documents" of Kerbfleet: A Jool Odyssey, reached the cliffhanger, and got so frustrated, they built their own Intrepid-like ship to go find out what happens next in the Kerbfleet story? But that's for another thread. I'd love to see @Kuzzter at least tell us what he had planned for his story if he doesn't have time to finish his webcomic...

[Angelo Kerman]

Found one more from my archive...

[TwoCalories]

Have you ever reread the Kerbfleet series and looked for the first time characters appear? I found Kenlie's first appearance (the failed asteroid tug) and Kurt's first appearance (a crew roster photo).

[Angelo Kerman]

  On 11/18/2023 at 10:37 PM, TwoCalories said:

Have you ever reread the Kerbfleet series and looked for the first time characters appear? I found Kenlie's first appearance (the failed asteroid tug) and Kurt's first appearance (a crew roster photo).

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Not I, but awhile back I toyed with a Galaxy Quest-type mission report where the kerbals read the "historical documents" from Kerbfleet, got to the cliffhanger, and, with no end to the series, they build their own ship...

If I did something like that today, maybe it would be a reimagined "Strange New Worlds Kerbals" type adventure. But I'd have to get @Kuzzter's blessing to use a ship based on his design, and he hasn't been on the forums in years.

[Nimzo Kerman]

  On 11/18/2023 at 11:54 PM, Angelo Kerman said:

Not I, but awhile back I toyed with a Galaxy Quest-type mission report where the kerbals read the "historical documents" from Kerbfleet, got to the cliffhanger, and, with no end to the series, they build their own ship...

If I did something like that today, maybe it would be a reimagined "Strange New Worlds Kerbals" type adventure. But I'd have to get @Kuzzter's blessing to use a ship based on his design, and he hasn't been on the forums in years.

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Hey Angelo! Nimzo here (Kuzzter's son, currently cannot get back into the @Nimzo Kerman account as it requires an old email I don't have on this computer), and I will be seeing Kuzz on Wednesday for thanksgiving. I'll let him know about the ideas you guys all have and I am sure that he will love them. Sadly our Kerbfleet adventures are mostly over as the hard drive that had Kerbfleet on it is gone, but I do still try and get as many funds as Mortimer could ever hope for while I am not working on homework at university.  (He will more than likely be perfectly fine with you using the designs just we do not have them anymore ourselves).

Edited November 20, 2023 by Nimzo
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