Mister Dilsby Posted December 21, 2015 Author Share Posted December 21, 2015 I should have been more clear: I'm pretty sure I can make a "good" deadstick landing anywhere on Laythe. As always, we'll find out together Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starhawk Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 1 hour ago, Kuzzter said: I should have been more clear: I'm pretty sure I can make a "good" deadstick landing anywhere on Laythe. As always, we'll find out together That's 'Air Service' good, isn't it? Happy Concerned landings! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpaceplaneAddict Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 Who said normal land SSTOs can't water.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikki Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 "cough"... looks like some of us are waiting for Roverdudes inflatable heatshield... ... "cough" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister Dilsby Posted December 21, 2015 Author Share Posted December 21, 2015 4 hours ago, Starhawk said: That's 'Air Service' good, isn't it? There's another kind? 4 hours ago, SpaceplaneAddict said: Who said normal land SSTOs can't water.... Oh, sure... the trouble is taking off again from 'Runway H2O'. That's what took me so long between the last page, and this one: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deddly Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 Beautiful design Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Rocket Scientist Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 Bill: You'll be fine, Dils! Hey, can I call you Dils? Dils: No, you can't. *T* *Z* *R* *SPACE* Bils: Oh...all right, Mister Dilsby sir, just keep those nose Vernors engaged until you clear the 'sphere, that'll keep the pointy end towards space... Mister Dilsby sir: Glad you put 'em on, Bill. This is definitely a "turn and burn" kind of ship. *Ship is in space and deploying a bunch of big reds* Dilsby: ...seventy klicks, suborbital. Ditching the empty tanks, and... Dilsby: ...Agenda one is position-your turn, Kernel! Jebs: Whoo! *Z* New page: *Laythe plane is on the ocean* Jeb: Laythe X7 is rolling! Well, floating. Skimming? Gliding? Water-skiing? Genie: No idea, Jeb. Let's figure it out later, OK? For now, just get to space. Jeb: Roger that, flight. Speed sixty... seventy... Jeb: ...eighty. Whoa! Ninety! She's starting to lift! Jeb: Flaps in! Ha haaa-this thing has way too much engine! Bill: You think so? Hm, maybe we could do it with just one RAPIER... Jeb: Not on your life, Bill! WHOOOOO! NOTE: All silly name-wordplay is mine. All real, good content is Kuzzter's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starhawk Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 Very nice, Kuzzter! Beautiful seaspaceplane. That looks like an excellent docking solution, btw. Thanks again. Happy Concerned landings! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpaceplaneAddict Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 Well, I meant, who said normal land designed SSTOs couldn't into and outto water. Awesome design, sleek and *oh my* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dman979 Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 I think this takes "belly flop" to a whole new level. Excellent work, Kuzzter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FyunchClick Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 13 hours ago, Kuzzter said: That's what took me so long between the last page, and this one: Nice, the sleek design of the X7. I'm looking at the side of Agenda One but I can't quite make that out, is that a pair of docking ports on some struts to clip something to the side? And how does the Agenda One handle wrt wobbliness? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deddly Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 @FyunchClick, it appears to be a dock for the Laythe X7. If you look closely, it seems like the X7 has a docking port on the back and an upside-down inline docking port at the front. @Kuzzter, does that mean the X7 won't be going inside the [Redacted] after all? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farex Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 @Kuzzter don't tell me this design actually works. Nearly no wings/lift and only this tiny amount of fuel? And here I am, still trying to figure out how to fly my Planes to Orbit. Was no problem in 0.90 but since 1.0 I was not able to do it :/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister Dilsby Posted December 22, 2015 Author Share Posted December 22, 2015 (edited) 6 hours ago, FyunchClick said: Nice, the sleek design of the X7. I'm looking at the side of Agenda One but I can't quite make that out, is that a pair of docking ports on some struts to clip something to the side? And how does the Agenda One handle wrt wobbliness? Agenda One is really wobbly, even with the vernors. But it's only for docking tests so it's OK. And yes, that's two orthagonally oriented docking ports. The X7 has a... well, you'll see it when you scroll down 5 hours ago, Deddly said: does that mean the X7 won't be going inside the [Redacted] after all? It will, or at least that's still the plan. I'm just making sure I have the docking interface correct before I try to build another hangar. 1 hour ago, Farex said: don't tell me this design actually works. Nearly no wings/lift and only this tiny amount of fuel? And here I am, still trying to figure out how to fly my Planes to Orbit. Was no problem in 0.90 but since 1.0 I was not able to do it :/ Why tell you this design works... when I can show you ? @Farex--I find that low wing area actually works best for SSTO. It minimizes drag, and a craft with loads of thrust is going to be going fast enough to get lift from even a very small wing. Look at RL high-altitude interceptors like the F-104; stubby little wings is all they need. So, looks like I have a multiport docking solution! Next we'll try to get the big Tylo craft into the Agenda's bay, which will likely happen after Christmas. I may have time for a holiday page before then. We'll see! ETA: Whoops! Sorry, skipped a page. So yeah, the engines are above COM to keep them out of the water, and I used the rotate tool to aim them UP so that their line of thrust is closer to the COM. Offset is about 3 degrees, which is manageable. The other key to the design was rotating the wings up a bit so it would get enough lift to come out of the water even when floating with the nose aimed at the horizon. Edited December 22, 2015 by Kuzzter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaturnianBlue Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 (edited) Looks like Dils has quite a pickle with Jeb! Edited December 22, 2015 by SaturnianBlue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister Dilsby Posted December 22, 2015 Author Share Posted December 22, 2015 Sorry guys, I skipped a page accidentally when I first posted. It's fixed now. Also, there WILL be a holiday special tomorrow! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geschosskopf Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 39 minutes ago, Kuzzter said: I find that low wing area actually works best for SSTO. It minimizes drag, and a craft with loads of thrust is going to be going fast enough to get lift from even a very small wing. Look at RL high-altitude interceptors like the F-104; stubby little wings is all they need. Sure, that works good for going up but the problem is, it makes for high-speed landings (not to mention a huge turn radius if that matters). The F-104 had a final approach speed of about 95-100m/s, necessary to provide a survivable sink rate while not stalling. I'm curious to see how the X7's landing will go ;). And BTW, that thing Bill's working on? Maybe MOAR boosters, but definitely MOAR tailfeathers. That huge fairing will fight you all the way up. Detta wings with 2 control surfaces each are probably required, even with Vernors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starhawk Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 Very nice docking! It seems like Dilsby will manage to keep Jeb in line - at least as far as his name goes. OK, my turn to do some armchair engineering. So, I guess the excess drag from angling the engines is also manageable due to the copious levels of thrust. What I don't get is how you manage to stop the RV-105 RCS Thruster Blocks from overheating and exploding. I always have to use the Place-Anywhere thrusters to prevent explodyness. Apparently the Place-Anywhere thrusters are lower drag as well, though more of them are necessary. Are you getting tired of everyone telling you how to build your craft yet? And you are such a tease. Leaving us with a nice fairing shot just before the holiday. Thanks! Happy Concerned landings! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister Dilsby Posted December 22, 2015 Author Share Posted December 22, 2015 (edited) 1 hour ago, Geschosskopf said: And BTW, that thing Bill's working on? Maybe MOAR boosters, but definitely MOAR tailfeathers. That huge fairing will fight you all the way up. Detta wings with 2 control surfaces each are probably required, even with Vernors. Ummm, to be quite honest I just threw that together because I needed an image for the comic. But yeah, the back end needs draggyness and controlyness, definitely. And I may just ditch the fairing and launch the thing in a Mk3 bay--because (1) it usually works, and (2) that design choice seems to bother certain readers 30 minutes ago, Starhawk said: So, I guess the excess drag from angling the engines is also manageable due to the copious levels of thrust. What I don't get is how you manage to stop the RV-105 RCS Thruster Blocks from overheating and exploding. I always have to use the Place-Anywhere thrusters to prevent explodyness. Apparently the Place-Anywhere thrusters are lower drag as well, though more of them are necessary. Right, two engines on a 22-ton craft covers a host of difficulties This one is very interesting to fly, I always have to remember that the cockpit is not exactly pointed where it wants to go! I considered angling it (the cockpit) down to match the engines, but that would be too draggy in the water I think. Regarding landing speed--well, with full flaps and brakes and the engines lit, I can water land on Kerbin at about 60 m/s. We'll see what that works out to in the thinner air of Laythe. I think as long as I can hold it reasonably horizontal and keep vertical at -1-2 m/s, I'll be fine. If not, well, then somebody will get his wish for a rescue mission. Regarding the thruster blocks, I don't tend to have a problem with them as long as I have a radiator somewhere. Note that there are no blocks on the top or bottom; I handle Y-displacement with side-mounted PlaceAnywheres. So, the total RCS layout is just four 4-way blocks and four Anywheres. ETA: I would probably use all Anywheres because they give a cleaner-looking line, but I can never find a good place to put them for X-translation as my noses tend to be pointy. Quote Are you getting tired of everyone telling you how to build your craft yet? You? Never There's a huge difference between a nice technical discussion like this and "HEY KUZZTOR UR DOING IT WRONG SHOOD UZE MOAR MODS!" Edited December 22, 2015 by Kuzzter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geschosskopf Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 24 minutes ago, Kuzzter said: Regarding the thruster blocks, I don't tend to have a problem with them as long as I have a radiator somewhere. Note that there are no blocks on the top or bottom; I handle Y-displacement with side-mounted PlaceAnywheres. So, the total RCS layout is just four 4-way blocks and four Anywheres. I personally have become a huge fan of the 5-way streamlined RCS pods in Mk2 Extension. You just need 4 of them mounted on the sides of the fuselage for full control in all directions, they're sized to fit on the edges of Mk2 parts, and they don't burn up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Rocket Scientist Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 Time for transcripts! *Laythe X7 is getting reentry effects while climbing *BANG!* Jeb: Whoops! Hey Bill, I thought we weren't going to put solar panels that far forward anymore? Bill: Heh. Sorry about that... so, how's she handling? I know I put the engines a bit above centerline. Jeb: Oh, it's OK. I had to burn a little RCS to hold prograde at full throttle, but it's fine now. Circularizing! Bill: Hm. Maybe I can angle them down a little more, or throw on a couple extra gyros. Anyway, you only have to get as far as the carrier. Speaking of which... New page: *Laythe X7 is approaching carrier* Jeb: Hey, Dils! I've got you on visual! Dlisby: Please don't call me that. Jeb: Why not? It's a great nickname! Dilsby: It sounds like I'm a pickle! Jeb: I know! That's what makes it so great. Who doesn't like pickles? Picklby: Well I don't need a nickname, OK? It's Dilsby, or Comder. Now zero your forward and start thrusting lateral. Jeb: You got it, Dils! Dilsby: *Ahem* Jeb: -by! New page: *Laythe X7 docks with carrier* Dlisby: It worked! L-dock secure! Jeb: Hey Bill, how's the other one coming? *Large rocket with even larger fairing in the VAB* Bill: Almost ready! Bill: ...hmm. Maybe a few more boosters? Thanks to Kuzzter, as always! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deddly Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 (edited) Really nice comic again @Kuzzter! I'm curious, would increasing the angle of the rapiers allow you to leave the water at a lower speed? I would imagine the offset would be pushing the nose down. I like your idea of angling the nose to match the thrust. But hey, I like the ship as it is Edited December 23, 2015 by Deddly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angelo Kerman Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 A couple of well timed drag chute deployments might help it slow down enough for a water landing... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister Dilsby Posted December 23, 2015 Author Share Posted December 23, 2015 This song kinda just came to me while I was in the mall looking for one last ?!!@# gift. Happy holidays from... THE KERBULAN EMPIRE! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bev7787 Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 Made my day Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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